A Facebook Post: What do you think of this?

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Aug 10, 2011 3:58 PM GMT
    Someone I know posted this on facebook:

    22 Navy Seals, 3 Air Force CCT, 1 dog handler, his dog and 4 aircrew, may they all rest in peace knowing they did their best to protect us from evil. Y'all will not be forgotten and we will forever be in your debt. I just hope our nation survives the next couple of years till we can get a new government in place that appreciates the military and it's citizens to make your sacrifice worth the cost you paid.

    What are your thoughts/reactions and what would you have said if anything at all?
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    Aug 10, 2011 4:08 PM GMT
    This is generally where you would do the generic thing and go

    "Oh yeah...sure...blame everything on the black President. Racist."

    Or you could go the clever way and say

    "You fucking dumbass...what "evil" were they protecting you from? There wouldn't have been a crash if our country weren't invading sovereign nations under the pretense of "security". Maybe if we tried repairing our broken nation instead of exanding our (what's supposed to be non-existent) empire...then we wouldn't be hearing this shit on the news. - p.s. stop breathing...you're wasting valuable oxygen that could be used for our soldiers!"

    Whichever one fits your personality best, ya know.
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    Aug 10, 2011 4:10 PM GMT
    Our president is black? Holy shit!

    ConfederateGhost saidThis is generally where you would do the generic thing and go

    "Oh yeah...sure...blame everything on the black President. Racist."

    Or you could go the clever way and say

    "You fucking dumbass...what "evil" were they protecting you from? There wouldn't have been a crash if our country weren't invading sovereign nations under the pretense of "security". Maybe if we tried repairing our broken nation instead of exanding our (what's supposed to be non-existent) empire...then we wouldn't be hearing this shit on the news. - p.s. stop breathing...you're wasting valuable oxygen that could be used for our soldiers!"

    Whichever one fits your personality best, ya know.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Aug 10, 2011 4:13 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidSomeone I know posted this on facebook:

    22 Navy Seals, 3 Air Force CCT, 1 dog handler, his dog and 4 aircrew, may they all rest in peace knowing they did their best to protect us from evil. Y'all will not be forgotten and we will forever be in your debt. I just hope our nation survives the next couple of years till we can get a new government in place that appreciates the military and it's citizens to make your sacrifice worth the cost you paid.

    What are your thoughts/reactions and what would you have said if anything at all?



    There is obviously a great deal of mistrust of our government right now -- on both sides -- and Americans are frustrated and don't understand why we are still there. This latest loss of our troops, like all of them have been, is heart-breaking. I think Americans forget sometimes that our troops are still over there and that these wars are going on --- then something like this happens to wake us all back up.
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    Aug 10, 2011 4:15 PM GMT
    In my experience, whenever someone takes an extreme political viewpoint, either right or left, they're not really interested in having a discussion with someone who doesn't agree with them. I'd bet that's even more true over Facebook.
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    Aug 10, 2011 4:17 PM GMT
    imasrxd saidIn my experience, whenever someone takes an extreme political viewpoint, either right or left, they're not really interested in having a discussion with someone who doesn't agree with them. I'd bet that's even more true over Facebook.


    Exactly. At this point they're an alligator. All mouth, no ears.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Aug 10, 2011 4:18 PM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidThis is generally where you would do the generic thing and go

    "Oh yeah...sure...blame everything on the black President. Racist."

    Or you could go the clever way and say

    "You fucking dumbass...what "evil" were they protecting you from? There wouldn't have been a crash if our country weren't invading sovereign nations under the pretense of "security". Maybe if we tried repairing our broken nation instead of exanding our (what's supposed to be non-existent) empire...then we wouldn't be hearing this shit on the news. - p.s. stop breathing...you're wasting valuable oxygen that could be used for our soldiers!"

    Whichever one fits your personality best, ya know.


    Neither. And what would you say?
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    Aug 10, 2011 4:19 PM GMT
    What about the eyes and tail? Weapons themselves for sure.

    Ravco said
    imasrxd saidIn my experience, whenever someone takes an extreme political viewpoint, either right or left, they're not really interested in having a discussion with someone who doesn't agree with them. I'd bet that's even more true over Facebook.


    Exactly. At this point they're an alligator. All mouth, no ears.
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    Aug 10, 2011 4:20 PM GMT
    I tend to avoid facebook debates/arguments so I probably wouldn't say anything. If we were standing in the same circle of people and they said it...I would probably use a variation of the second "comment".

    coolarmydude said
    ConfederateGhost saidThis is generally where you would do the generic thing and go

    "Oh yeah...sure...blame everything on the black President. Racist."

    Or you could go the clever way and say

    "You fucking dumbass...what "evil" were they protecting you from? There wouldn't have been a crash if our country weren't invading sovereign nations under the pretense of "security". Maybe if we tried repairing our broken nation instead of exanding our (what's supposed to be non-existent) empire...then we wouldn't be hearing this shit on the news. - p.s. stop breathing...you're wasting valuable oxygen that could be used for our soldiers!"

    Whichever one fits your personality best, ya know.


    Neither. And what would you say?
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    Aug 10, 2011 4:23 PM GMT
    I've found that Facebook is not the best medium for having political discussions. It just turns into a shit storm and potentially make you look bad in front of people you forgot were reading your Facebook posts!
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    Aug 10, 2011 4:43 PM GMT
    I think this sums it up nicely when it comes to internet arguments. I agree with many of the posters above. The person doesn't want to engage in an adult conversation most times:

    http://laughingsquid.com/comic-flowchart-on-how-to-deal-with-internet-arguments/
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Aug 10, 2011 4:59 PM GMT
    endo saidI've found that Facebook is not the best medium for having political discussions. It just turns into a shit storm...



    As opposed to political discussions on RJ which are like a walk through a field of fresh daisies a spring morning icon_lol.gif
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    Aug 10, 2011 5:23 PM GMT
    I was at the airport when CNN reported about the death of 22 navy seals. Everyone rushed to the TV screen to watch the story. People were shocked, sad and devastated.

    I as thinking WTF. If you ever follow the news you'll realized that troops die on a daily basis. Why is this such a shocker now? FYI, I am not saying it wasn't devastating but after years of hearing about the deaths the shock factor just goes away.

    It turn out that most of the people who were talking about the navy seals. The media has turned them into celebrities which is fine. However, the amount of media attention on their deaths kind of trivializes the death of people in other troops who are not navy seals. Anyways, I am hoping when all the navy seals headlines go away that people still keep in mind that other troops are still being killed and they should matter just as much. do not build the mentality of "oh they weren't navy seals. its not a big of a deal."
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    Aug 10, 2011 7:16 PM GMT
    If only we would withdraw our troops from all other countries.


    AvadaKedavra saidI was at the airport when CNN reported about the death of 22 navy seals. Everyone rushed to the TV screen to watch the story. People were shocked, sad and devastated.

    I as thinking WTF. If you ever follow the news you'll realized that troops die on a daily basis. Why is this such a shocker now? FYI, I am not saying it wasn't devastating but after years of hearing about the deaths the shock factor just goes away.

    It turn out that most of the people who were talking about the navy seals. The media has turned them into celebrities which is fine. However, the amount of media attention on their deaths kind of trivializes the death of people in other troops who are not navy seals. Anyways, I am hoping when all the navy seals headlines go away that people still keep in mind that other troops are still being killed and they should matter just as much. do not build the mentality of "oh they weren't navy seals. its not a big of a deal."
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    Aug 10, 2011 7:58 PM GMT
    NATO killed a woman and seven children in Afghanistan the other day. I didn't see any facebook postings about that being a tragedy.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/world/asia/07helmand.html

    While all war-induced deaths are awful, one must place this in context: we are in a country we don't belong, thousands of miles away, brutally oppressing and occupying a nation and its people... for the past ten years.

    When SOLDIERS who are actively involved in the occupation and war in that country are killed, it's seen as a tragedy. When innocent women and children who are in that country are brutally murdered, it's called "collateral damage."

    Just goes back the the western media's long-held stance of defining worthy vs. unworthy victims in conflicts. In Afghanistan, worthy victims are the occupying force, unworthy victims are Afghans. Therefore, attention is given to the worthy victims, while the unworthy victims are barely mentioned, let alone mourned.

    Same thing in Vietnam, Iraq, Nicaragua, Libya, Israel-Palestine, everywhere, every conflict.

    You want young men and women to stop being killed while being overseas and around the world? Stop being an empire. Simple as that.

    What options do these people have, however, with your military or proxies occupying and destroying their nations and oppressing their people? You wonder why there is resistance to occupation in these places? But of course, all 'resistance' is deemed "terrorism" and all resisters deemed "terrorists," just like in Vietnam how anyone killed was 'Vietcong', not like they had membership cards on their bodies or anything. Kill a bunch of people in Afghanistan? Call them Taliban!

    Even last year, NATO killed two pregnant women and a teenage girl, and then covered it up.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7060395.ece

    Of course, THIS wasn't news heard around the world, because it's what, only two pregnant women and a teenage girl, not like they actually mattered as human beings, I mean, it's not like they were American soldiers or anything.

    I'm not saying the deaths of these soldiers isn't a tragedy, but it's a tragedy in context of a much larger global tragedy, and that is the actions of this very same military force everywhere in the world.

    So, several thousand U.S. soldiers have been killed in Iraq since that occupation began over eight years ago. Pretty awful, of course. Yet, put it in context. As of 2008, over one million Iraqis have been killed since the conflict began.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/01/30/us-iraq-deaths-survey-idUSL3048857920080130

    In a country like Iraq, with a population (once) roughly equal to that of Canada (30 million or so), everyone would know someone who has been killed since the war began. 1 in 30 people have been killed. That's massive.

    But we don't care. They were all probably "terrorists" anyway. My point is that for every time an American soldier (occupying and invading a foreign country and oppressing their populations) was killed... we heard a lot about it. When one million Iraqis are killed, and our hands are covered in their blood... we don't even talk about it.

    Bill Clinton's former Secretary of State, Madeleine Alrbight, perfectly summed up this imperial and monstrous perspective, when she was asked a question in 1999 by a reporter who pointed out that U.S. sanctions on Iraq (during Bill Clinton's time in office) killed over 500,000 children, and Albright said, "the price is worth it."
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2603

    Aug 10, 2011 8:21 PM GMT
    One of the greatest tragedies I saw in this whole 'war on terrorism' was in Pakistan.An American air strike managed to accidentally kill over a hundred civilians at a wedding,men,women and children;many of them related and in extended families.I believe a small village was more or less wiped out.
    An American Air Force general in Washington,on hearing the news,shrugged his shoulders and said something like....'sorry,it`s war,bad things happen' and moved on.
    Sadly,he`s right.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Aug 10, 2011 8:25 PM GMT
    Someone I know posted this on facebook:

    22 Navy Seals, 3 Air Force CCT, 1 dog handler, his dog and 4 aircrew, may they all rest in peace knowing they did their best to protect us from evil. Y'all will not be forgotten and we will forever be in your debt. I just hope our nation survives the next couple of years till we can get a new government in place that appreciates the military and it's citizens to make your sacrifice worth the cost you paid.

    What are your thoughts/reactions and what would you have said if anything at all?
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    Aug 10, 2011 8:56 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidSomeone I know posted this on facebook:

    22 Navy Seals, 3 Air Force CCT, 1 dog handler, his dog and 4 aircrew, may they all rest in peace knowing they did their best to protect us from evil. Y'all will not be forgotten and we will forever be in your debt. I just hope our nation survives the next couple of years till we can get a new government in place that appreciates the military and it's citizens to make your sacrifice worth the cost you paid.

    What are your thoughts/reactions and what would you have said if anything at all?






    I would have let it go with something like 'this was a most unfortunate loss of life'.'my thoughts are with the families of those soldiers who died'.

    With an opinion expressed like this guy's, there is no point in trying to convince him that the war is useless or trying to make any other point of merrit, it would just fall on deaf ears anyway, so don't throw your 'pearls' out where they won't be appreciated.




    I have a son and two nephews in the military, one Nephew is in Afghanistan now and the other just returned, My Son is stationed in a safer place.

    I steer away from statements that point out the uselessness of this war and the waste of life over it, These soldiers don't make the decisions and they have to do what they are told and the only thing that gives them peace is 'thinking' they are serving our country and doing it good. I cannot change the world so why make enemies by always having to express points of opinion even if true, these soldiers cannot bring about change on their own even if they tried, so whats the point. The most they could do is be conscientious objectors to avoid carrying a gun, beyond that they are better off keeping their mouths shut too.

    In a better world soldiers would stand together and refuse to do any more killing or carrying out night raids and such that end up killing innocent civilians, but that isn't the way it is.



    Truth is, I agree with MeOhMy, this war and all the deaths is a total sham and not anywhere close to being over what our government claims it is.
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    Aug 10, 2011 9:15 PM GMT
    Realifedad said[...] These soldiers don't make the decisions and they have to do what they are told


    Well... they take the job, don't they?
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    Aug 10, 2011 9:55 PM GMT
    Tazo995 said
    Realifedad said[...] These soldiers don't make the decisions and they have to do what they are told


    Well... they take the job, don't they?




    Yes they take the job, and if they come to feel that they were wrong in doing so, that things with the war are not what they thought, then about all they can do as an individual is claim consciencious objector. beyond that they are pretty well stuck with the job. Unless of course thousand join them in protest, but good luck with that !!
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    Aug 10, 2011 9:59 PM GMT
    They forget the 7 lives of the Afghan soldiers who died, doing the very same thing for their nation. How are they worth forgetting?

    The military has a mission to serve the american people. That includes Democrats, Republicans and every party in-between. Using the death of American servicepeople to bolster a political statement is an insult to their memory and that person should be deeply ashamed.
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    Aug 10, 2011 10:41 PM GMT
    No shit, that song has played in my head a few times over the past few days of News & Politics threads.

    viitz said"The death of one is a tragedy. The death of a million is just a statistic."
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    Aug 11, 2011 5:30 PM GMT
    A couple quotes to reveal how those who set policy think, and what they really think of you, and those they send to war.

    "Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."

    - Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of State and National Security Adviser; unofficial adviser to every president since Nixon; currently on the boards of many prominent think tanks where he is still pivotal in the formation of foreign policy

    At the Nuremberg trials following the defeat of Nazi Germany, Hitler's second in command, Hermann Goring, was the most high-profile Nazi on trial. While being questioned, Goring stated:

    "Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

    The questioner responded with: "There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

    Goring replied:

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
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    Aug 11, 2011 5:36 PM GMT
    I'd tell him he used the wrong form of its/it's.
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    Aug 11, 2011 6:01 PM GMT
    MeOhMy saidA couple quotes to reveal how those who set policy think, and what they really think of you, and those they send to war.

    "Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."

    - Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of State and National Security Adviser; unofficial adviser to every president since Nixon; currently on the boards of many prominent think tanks where he is still pivotal in the formation of foreign policy

    At the Nuremberg trials following the defeat of Nazi Germany, Hitler's second in command, Hermann Goring, was the most high-profile Nazi on trial. While being questioned, Goring stated:

    "Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

    The questioner responded with: "There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

    Goring replied:

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The last paragraph worked perfectly when Bush/Cheney took us to war and it is exactly why I've never gotten anywhere when talking to my own military relatives. they are so indoctinated by their superiors its a hopeless and useless cause to even take on the subject, so I just keep my mouth shut. It may be people like me keeping our mouths shut, are to blame for these wars going as far as they did. What do you all think ?