UK Prime Minister David Cameron on the riots: "This is not about poverty, it's about culture"

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    Aug 12, 2011 7:49 PM GMT
    http://www.newstatesman.com/2011/08/police-streets-violence

    David Cameron:
    This is not about poverty, it's about culture. A culture that glorifies violence, shows disrespect to authority, and says everything about rights but nothing about responsibilities.
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    Aug 12, 2011 8:45 PM GMT
    I haven't seen a lot of information about who is behind the riots, but I'm just wondering if Cameron is referring to this as England's version of an Arab Spring -- chaos, mayhem, violence.
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    Aug 12, 2011 8:59 PM GMT
    It's funny to see England try to stretch it's colonial muscles.
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    Aug 12, 2011 9:09 PM GMT
    vincent7 saidI haven't seen a lot of information about who is behind the riots, but I'm just wondering if Cameron is referring to this as England's version of an Arab Spring -- chaos, mayhem, violence.


    Quite a bit different. The Arab Spring is/was about a struggle for freedom from despots - this is different. With youth unemployment at a high throughout Europe with a still generous welfare state and the liberty to vote, to speak, and a government that is too unwilling, too "kind" to shut it down (at least it was).

    Look at the riots in France. If it can happen in the UK, it could be far far worse through the rest of Europe.

    But as other commentators have pointed out, this is a self inflicted wound - given how far society has been willing to bend to accomodate thugs:

    http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Rioting-for-Fun-and-Profit

    The article – written by Guy Chazan and Jeanne Whalen with help from Peter Evans – is a nice piece of reporting. It tells you everything that you need to know – right down to the crucial fact that the police wanted to arrest one man for punching a thug intent on stealing his property. What is happening right now in London and in cities to the north could best be described as a self-inflicted wound.

    Do you remember the riots a year or two ago in Paris and in other French cities and the burning of cars along the Champs Ėlysées? What you may not remember is something else that was reported in passing at the time – that, for some years prior to these riots, one hundred cars a night were being torched in the cities of France. I passed through Paris not long after these events, and a French professor I know told me that this latter piece of news came as a real shock to her. The truth is that the police had, in effect, abandoned the Muslim neighborhoods and that impecunious, hard-working Muslims living in these neighborhoods, men and women who had scrimped and saved to buy jalopies, had been losing them to the thugs for some time. None of this was reported until the disorders spread from the slums in the suburbs to the wealthy districts of Paris. [...]

    In times like these, it is useful to remember the immortal words of John Adams: “We talk of liberty and property, but, if we cut up the law of self-defence, we cut up the foundation of both. . . . If a robber meets me in the street, and commands me to surrender my purse, I have a right to kill him without asking questions.”


    It's also why these same riots are unlikely to happen in the US - at least in the same form.
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    Aug 12, 2011 9:41 PM GMT
    riddler - Bullshit. The outrage is because every one of the Western countries bailed out banks and is putting the resulting economic downturn on the backs of the young, poor, vulnerable, etc.

    Only Cameron, a stunning douche bag of the highest order, would see it any other way. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 12, 2011 9:48 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidriddler - Bullshit. The outrage is because every one of the Western countries bailed out banks and is putting the resulting economic downturn on the backs of the young, poor, vulnerable, etc.

    Only Cameron, a stunning douche bag of the highest order, would see it any other way. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Are you that sure you're not the "douche bag of the highest order"? On the backs of the young, poor and vulnerable? That would be the types of policies you advocate like militant teachers unions, lack of school choice, higher minimum wage, entitlement systems ad nauseum, etc.

    To quote Robert Heinlein:

    Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

    This is known as “bad luck.”
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    Aug 12, 2011 10:47 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidriddler - Bullshit. The outrage is because every one of the Western countries bailed out banks and is putting the resulting economic downturn on the backs of the young, poor, vulnerable, etc.

    Only Cameron, a stunning douche bag of the highest order, would see it any other way. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Are you that sure you're not the "douche bag of the highest order"? On the backs of the young, poor and vulnerable? That would be the types of policies you advocate like militant teachers unions, lack of school choice, higher minimum wage, entitlement systems ad nauseum, etc.

    To quote Robert Heinlein:

    Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

    This is known as “bad luck.”


    These young people are the people who benefit from all those policies you hate...
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    Aug 12, 2011 11:18 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidriddler - Bullshit. The outrage is because every one of the Western countries bailed out banks and is putting the resulting economic downturn on the backs of the young, poor, vulnerable, etc.

    Only Cameron, a stunning douche bag of the highest order, would see it any other way. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Rather than give a knee-jerk reaction against Cameron, you might read the opinions of those with extensive knowledge of the UK, including some thoughtful comments on RJ. They understand the various complexities and nuances better than a highly ideologically driven American.
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    Aug 12, 2011 11:38 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidriddler - Bullshit. The outrage is because every one of the Western countries bailed out banks and is putting the resulting economic downturn on the backs of the young, poor, vulnerable, etc.

    Only Cameron, a stunning douche bag of the highest order, would see it any other way. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Rather than give a knee-jerk reaction against Cameron, you might read the opinions of those with extensive knowledge of the UK, including some thoughtful comments on RJ. They understand the various complexities and nuances better than a highly ideologically driven American.


    Puh-leeze. I've traveled extensively in England and Ireland and have family in both. The current British government are knee-jerk reactionaries, and - as I've said countless times - I'm not ideologically driven. I'm a pragmatist. And the extent of corporate depredation that we are seeing now, has not been seen since the Gilded Age, which was followed by the Great Depression and then - The New Deal in the US and socialism and communism elsewhere.

    If you really want capitalism overthrown, keep supporting these policies. People are at their wit's end. Do not believe government is working for them and they will choose another option.
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    Aug 12, 2011 11:41 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidriddler - Bullshit. The outrage is because every one of the Western countries bailed out banks and is putting the resulting economic downturn on the backs of the young, poor, vulnerable, etc.

    Only Cameron, a stunning douche bag of the highest order, would see it any other way. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Are you that sure you're not the "douche bag of the highest order"? On the backs of the young, poor and vulnerable? That would be the types of policies you advocate like militant teachers unions, lack of school choice, higher minimum wage, entitlement systems ad nauseum, etc.

    To quote Robert Heinlein:

    Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

    This is known as “bad luck.”


    These young people are the people who benefit from all those policies you hate...


    Exactly. Public education in this country was never better than in post-WWII through the 1970s. When - oddly - there were strong unions, a prosperous middle class, one-stay-at-home parent, and higher taxes on the wealthy and corporations. In return, the American companies got a smart, educated workforce. The rich and corporate douches broke the social contract that had sustained this country during it's greatest period. And, now, the chickens are coming home to roost.
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    Aug 12, 2011 11:43 PM GMT
    "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty."

    erm, he's a sci-fi writer just like the founder of Scientology.

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    Aug 13, 2011 3:31 AM GMT
    meninlove said "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty."

    erm, he's a sci-fi writer just like the founder of Scientology.



    Erm, except he's right.
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    Aug 13, 2011 4:10 AM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidriddler - Bullshit. The outrage is because every one of the Western countries bailed out banks and is putting the resulting economic downturn on the backs of the young, poor, vulnerable, etc.

    Only Cameron, a stunning douche bag of the highest order, would see it any other way. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Are you that sure you're not the "douche bag of the highest order"? On the backs of the young, poor and vulnerable? That would be the types of policies you advocate like militant teachers unions, lack of school choice, higher minimum wage, entitlement systems ad nauseum, etc.

    To quote Robert Heinlein:

    Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

    This is known as “bad luck.”


    These young people are the people who benefit from all those policies you hate...


    Quite the opposite.
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    Aug 13, 2011 4:30 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    meninlove said "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty."

    erm, he's a sci-fi writer just like the founder of Scientology.



    Erm, except he's right.


    It's an absurdity. Nothing of value is done by a "small minority." No farms are run. Nothing is manufactured.

    This idea that business owners or corporate executives are somehow an exceptional bunch is self-deluding at best. Most aren't even particularly bright.
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    Aug 13, 2011 5:09 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    meninlove said "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty."

    erm, he's a sci-fi writer just like the founder of Scientology.



    Erm, except he's right.


    It's an absurdity. Nothing of value is done by a "small minority." No farms are run. Nothing is manufactured.

    This idea that business owners or corporate executives are somehow an exceptional bunch is self-deluding at best. Most aren't even particularly bright.


    And yet they are. It is the small minority to who take the risks, invest their time and capital in hopes of building businesses that meet the demands and needs of society. Poverty _is_ the normal condition of man - and again it's policies like the ones you would advocate that would return us to that position.