NY Town Clerk Refuses to Sign Gay Marriage Licenses

• GQjock
  
  Posts: 11649
  
  
  Aug 13, 2011 7:25 PM GMT

  A Town Clerk in upstate NY sent a letter to the Governor's office asking to allow her to delegate the task to a deputy because her religious beliefs "prevent" her from signing the licenses
  
  http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/08/12/New_York_Town_Clerk_Refuses_to_Sign_Marriage_Licenses/
  
  I never knew that being religious causes specific musculoskeletal problems making you incapable of performing minute hand manipulative tasks
  
  I think Governor Cuomo should send her to a Nursing Hime ....... Right?
  Where she can get the care she needs
  And have a flaming queen nurses aide to wheel her around and around
  ........ WHEEEEEEE.........
  
  

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  Aug 14, 2011 12:05 AM GMT

  If her religious beliefs prevent her from doing her job then she should find another job.
  
  The governor should help her in this by firing her.

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• waccamatt
  
  Posts: 1919
  
  
  Aug 14, 2011 12:06 AM GMT

  TroyAthlete saidIf her religious beliefs prevent her from doing her job then she should find another job.
  
  The governor should help her in this by firing her.

  
  
  I totally agree.

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  Aug 14, 2011 12:33 AM GMT

  I don't see why we can't just respect her religious views? She's just being true to her beliefs.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  haha, j/k

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  Aug 14, 2011 9:52 AM GMT

  dcblue saidI don't see why we can't just respect her religious views? She's just being true to her beliefs.
  haha, j/k

  
  
  You do not have freedom of religion in the workplace. In fact if I were to start quoting my own personal religious views at work I would, and should be fired.
  

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  Aug 14, 2011 10:28 AM GMT

  If this stupid religious moron has such beliefs, then she should have quit knowing that gay marriage was coming.
  But religion and it's blindly following morons love a stage like this so they can further their cause.
  
  Fire the "christian" and her high morals!
  
  Tristan

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• creature
  
  Posts: 5197
  
  
  Aug 14, 2011 10:41 AM GMT

  She has a civic duty. If she can't do it her ass needs to be canned.

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  Aug 14, 2011 10:49 AM GMT

  
  
  Denim jackets are never a good sign.

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  Aug 14, 2011 12:10 PM GMT

  She is probably being sponsored by the Teabaggers. I would not call her bluff and make her a martyr. I would subtly re-assign her to some shitty task in order to 'accommodate her beliefs'.

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  Aug 14, 2011 12:23 PM GMT

  I'll help her pack.
  
  

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  Aug 14, 2011 1:16 PM GMT

  Stan904 said
  
  Denim jackets are never a good sign.

  
  
  LOL. Except on a super hot man!

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  Aug 14, 2011 1:40 PM GMT

  " Gov. Andrew Cuomo has said he expects town clerks to follow the new law or leave their posts."

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  Aug 14, 2011 3:03 PM GMT

  Show her respect and compassion for her beliefs and transfer her to another position. We should give the compassion and respect we would like to get.

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  Aug 14, 2011 4:00 PM GMT

  beachwalk saidShow her respect and compassion for her beliefs and transfer her to another position. We should give the compassion and respect we would like to get.

  
  
  Should we show respect and compassion for the beliefs of al-Qaeda terrorists? Beliefs that interfere with the rights of others should not be tolerated.
  
  A NAMBLA member believes it's okay to be a pedophile, should schools respect that belief in hiring?
  
  If she can't do her job based on her beliefs, she needs to find a new one.

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  Aug 14, 2011 4:13 PM GMT

  beachwalk saidShow her respect and compassion for her beliefs and transfer her to another position. We should give the compassion and respect we would like to get.

  
  Yeah, transfer her to janitor duty, where she can clean the toilets. No doubt she believes that "cleanliness is next to godliness" and therefore everyone will benefit from her diligence. But she should have NOTHING to do involving direct contact with the public, and in making policy decisions. If you can't execute your official public duties without injecting unauthorized personal prejudice, then you should be relieved of them.

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  Aug 16, 2011 11:22 PM GMT

  She's setting (or trying to set) herself up as "untouchable" by using her religion as a shield - you cannot fire someone in NYS because of their religious beliefs and you cannot discriminate against one for the same reason. There are NY State (and City) employees in schools who won't cook pork (religious beliefs) despite being employed as a school cook and they cannot be fired - the other cooks have to pick up the slack. There are City and State workers who get to leave early on Fridays (home by sundown) and who get extra breaks during the day to pray. Its called reasonable accommodation and it is drilled into our heads that you may not discriminate, retaliate, refuse, discipline, demote or fire someone over religious reasonable accommodations. Everyone is afraid of lawsuits - it is irksome but it is what it is. Accommodations in place for legitimate reasons I have no problem with - it is when others are disingenuous in claiming them for their personal benefit (like this clerk) that really infuriate me.
  
  There was an episode on "Boston Legal" some years ago that touched on this and at least in that instance, the defendant prevailed.
  
  
  BTW - someone mentioned NAMBLA and how that should be a factor in selecting a teacher - just an FYI for many years the president of NAMBLA was a teacher at one of he top NYC public high schools and when it became known, despite every effort, he could not be fired - he had tenure. I think he even said something like "why are they (parents) worried? these boys (high schoolers) are too old for me anyway" - but I may have that mixed up.
  
  

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  Aug 16, 2011 11:29 PM GMT

  Is her position an elected position? I don't live within city limits here, but our county clerks are elected in Kansas.
  
  It her position is elected, she should resign. No one should be in an elected position if they can't follow the state law and do the job they are elected to.
  
  If she is hired, she should be fired or transferred immediately for refusing to fulfill the duties of the position.

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  Aug 17, 2011 12:43 AM GMT

  Mil8 saidShe is probably being sponsored by the Teabaggers. I would not call her bluff and make her a martyr. I would subtly re-assign her to some shitty task in order to 'accommodate her beliefs'.

  
  
  I agree - if that is a feasible thing in practice. She could not be in a position to sign any licenses. The question is that she would have to remain town clerk - isn't that an elective and not a civil service type position? So she'd have to remain town clerk but without responsibility to sign marriage licenses.

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• CuriousJockAZ
  
  Posts: 20165
  
  
  Aug 17, 2011 12:48 AM GMT

  Personally, I think it's absolutely ridiculous that she thinks her religious beliefs prevent her from signing something that is part of her job. However, I do think it's ironic that that many of the same people here calling for the clerk to be fired would be the first to jump to the defense of this woman if she were say a muslim woman using her religion to justify wearing a burka while working at an Abercrombie & Fitch store.

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  Aug 17, 2011 12:55 AM GMT

  CuriousJockAZ saidPersonally, I think it's absolutely ridiculous that she thinks her religious beliefs prevent her from signing something that is part of her job. However, I do think it's ironic that that many of the same people here calling for the clerk to be fired would be the first to jump to the defense of this woman if she were say a muslim woman using her religion to justify wearing a burka while working at an Abercrombie & Fitch store.

  
  
  I agree with you about the clerk. At first I wanted her to be fired, But now I think having her relegated to a menial position that has no contact with the public would be better. If she were to be fired, she would become a martyr as others have suggested.
  
  But your analogy of the muslim/burka thing? That person should be fired if she came in wearing that. A&F has a certain look and dress code. Which I'm sure the employees are mad aware of before they are hired.
  
  Tristan

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  Aug 17, 2011 12:56 AM GMT

  NYBeef saidShe's setting (or trying to set) herself up as "untouchable" by using her religion as a shield - you cannot fire someone in NYS because of their religious beliefs and you cannot discriminate against one for the same reason. There are NY State (and City) employees in schools who won't cook pork (religious beliefs) despite being employed as a school cook and they cannot be fired - the other cooks have to pick up the slack. There are City and State workers who get to leave early on Fridays (home by sundown) and who get extra breaks during the day to pray. Its called reasonable accommodation and it is drilled into our heads that you may not discriminate, retaliate, refuse, discipline, demote or fire someone over religious reasonable accommodations. Everyone is afraid of lawsuits - it is irksome but it is what it is. Accommodations in place for legitimate reasons I have no problem with - it is when others are disingenuous in claiming them for their personal benefit (like this clerk) that really infuriate me.
  
  There was an episode on "Boston Legal" some years ago that touched on this and at least in that instance, the defendant prevailed.
  
  

  
  
  You cite fictional television to prove your point? Ugh.
  
  NY State's law is not that cut and dry. The clerk cannot hide behind her religious beliefs. In this case, I'm certain that any legal eagle would find the clerk is the one at fault. She cannot discriminate because of her religious beliefs. It's not like there's another clerk at the ready to sign the marriage licenses. This isn't a school cafeteria employee we're talking about here.
  
  Legally, the clerk is bound to obey the law of the state. Her religious views are protected ONLY when they don't infringe on the legal rights of others. The rights of the majority trump any right(s) of the state employee.

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  Aug 17, 2011 1:06 AM GMT

  There are sanitation truck cleaners in short supply. Re assign her!

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  Aug 17, 2011 1:12 AM GMT

  TroyAthlete saidIf her religious beliefs prevent her from doing her job then she should find another job.
  
  The governor should help her in this by firing her.

  
  
  I agree, government workers should not have a stand based on religious beliefs, they should stick to what is applicable by law.

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• CuriousJockAZ
  
  Posts: 20165
  
  
  Aug 17, 2011 1:29 AM GMT

  musclefetish1 said
  But your analogy of the muslim/burka thing? That person should be fired if she came in wearing that. A&F has a certain look and dress code. Which I'm sure the employees are mad aware of before they are hired.
  
  Tristan

  
  
  
  No, I agree whole-heartedly with you. I was actually referring to a very real case that occurred a few years ago...
  
  http://loganswarning.com/2010/03/04/abercrombie-fitch-fires-muslim-for-wearing-hijab/
  
  A Muslim group filed a lawsuit against A&F who wouldn't hire a girl who insisted on wearing a Burka to work, and they later fired another Muslim employee for the same thing. I agree that the dress code appropriate for A&F did NOT include wearing a Burka, so if the girl's religious beliefs disagreed with her having to remove the Burka at work, then she shouldn't work there. However, at the time, there were several rather heated discussions here on RJ and many were jumping to the girl's defense by saying that her religion should have excused her. I was merely making he correlation and pointing out the irony that many of the same people were advocating firing the woman in New York who didn't want to sign same-sex marriage certificates due to her religion. It appeared somewhat of a double-standard to me.

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  Aug 17, 2011 1:42 AM GMT

  CuriousJockAZ saidPersonally, I think it's absolutely ridiculous that she thinks her religious beliefs prevent her from signing something that is part of her job. HOWEVER...[my emphasis]

  
  And that's the point with you. It's always the however.
  
  You can't just say it's wrong, period. There's always a hook that brings the guilt back to us gays. Your pattern is consistent & clear. Hate the gay, love the straight. If you can cite some exceptions, please enlighten us.

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