WSJ Editorial - The Battle of Wisconsin ended with a whimper on Tuesday

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    Aug 18, 2011 11:55 PM GMT
    Wall Street Journal, Opinion, August 18, 2011

    On, Wisconsin - After recalls fail, the teachers union lays off 40% of its staff.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903392904576512592316540916.html?mod=ITP_opinion_2

    The Battle of Wisconsin ended with a whimper on Tuesday as two Democrats facing recall elections for their roles in the fight over union reform hung on to their seats. Four of six Republicans up for recall did the same last week. After Greek-style protests in Madison, a judicial election and tens of millions of dollars spent, voters weren't in the mood for revenge after all.

    For all the hullabaloo, the great upheaval prophesied by the unions never came true. Republicans still control the state senate. The national unions went home. Badger State voters got a balanced budget without tax increases, and the spectacle of Democratic senators fleeing to Illinois to avoid a vote became an unpleasant memory. Life goes on.

    Since Governor Scott Walker's union reforms and budget legislation went into effect, school districts have saved money with competitive bids for their health-care plans. According to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, the change will save Milwaukee some $25 million a year and as much as $36 million in 2012, more than compensating for the cuts in state aid to the city.


    National unions descended on Wisconsin to fight over collective bargaining because the real line of scrimmage was the political power of the unions. Since the legislation ended government collection of union dues, the ability of unions to strong-arm their members has already begun to wane.

    On Monday, the Wisconsin Education Association Council announced it will lay off about 40% of its staff, a change executive director Dan Burkhalter blamed on Mr. Walker's "union-busting legislation." In December the union will face another reality check, as 51% of its members must vote to recertify it as their representative. With members no longer captive dues payers, the union has been forced to begin new outreach efforts, including home visits, to sell its relevance to workers.

    The net effect of more than $30 million spent in Wisconsin's recall elections may seem like an exercise in futility, but the real lesson may be that voters were never as enraged by the policy dispute as the political professionals said they were. Unions made Wisconsin a great battleground to send a message to other states that politicians who challenge union power will pay a price. The real price was paid by the unions themselves, in the national demonstration of their diminishing power.

    One reader comment from Ohio:

    What these union members haven't figured out, especially here in Ohio now that we have passed SB5, is that their leadership has failed them. Making caricatures of Scott Walker and John Kaisich is just an attempt to deflect the attention of their own members from looking at their leadership and seeing the failures that they are. I seriously doubt that all teachers are as stupid as their leadership believes them to be. I also think the public union members are keenly aware that this fight is over.(it doesn't really matter because the money is gone anyway). Yet, their leadership insists on putting them in a position in which they are guaranteed to lose. Why not be part of the solution? And by being part of the solution I mean divorcing the unions from the democrat party so they can gain some credibility on the issues.

    They've lost. If they choose to be stomped on in addition to losing let them keep up the rhetoric. They had better consider this as members, though; Barack Obama is not going to win reelection. Just how far they want to send themselves up a creek is up to them but I would suggest they dump their current leadership and try being part of the solution.
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    Aug 19, 2011 12:02 AM GMT
    LOL. That's the dumbest editorial ever. And that's saying something since Murdoch took over the WSJ and rid the editorial page of minor details like facts. icon_lol.gif
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    Aug 19, 2011 12:04 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidLOL. That's the dumbest editorial ever. And that's saying something since Murdoch took over the WSJ and rid the editorial page of minor details like facts. icon_lol.gif

    LOL - Must suck big time with the whole world leaving your ideology on the scrapheap of history.
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    Aug 19, 2011 12:07 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. That's the dumbest editorial ever. And that's saying something since Murdoch took over the WSJ and rid the editorial page of minor details like facts. icon_lol.gif

    LOL - Must suck big time with the whole world leaving your ideology on the scrapheap of history.


    The unions took out two Republican senators and kept all those who oppose Walkers agenda including the one Republican who voted against it.

    And my ideology is on the rise whereas the Tea Bagger one is dying.
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    Aug 19, 2011 12:11 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. That's the dumbest editorial ever. And that's saying something since Murdoch took over the WSJ and rid the editorial page of minor details like facts. icon_lol.gif

    LOL - Must suck big time with the whole world leaving your ideology on the scrapheap of history.


    The unions took out two Republican senators and kept all those who oppose Walkers agenda including the one Republican who voted against it.

    And my ideology is on the rise whereas the Tea Bagger one is dying.

    Democratic Socialism is on the rise? On what planet are you referring to, by the way?
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    Aug 19, 2011 12:46 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. That's the dumbest editorial ever. And that's saying something since Murdoch took over the WSJ and rid the editorial page of minor details like facts. icon_lol.gif

    LOL - Must suck big time with the whole world leaving your ideology on the scrapheap of history.


    The unions took out two Republican senators and kept all those who oppose Walkers agenda including the one Republican who voted against it.

    And my ideology is on the rise whereas the Tea Bagger one is dying.

    Democratic Socialism is on the rise? On what planet are you referring to, by the way?


    It is noteworthy that unions that add little value continue to die off while economic liberty continues to reward countries. It is sort of funny that Christian seems to think that his views are on the upswing. Social liberty yes is definitely on the upswing - but so is economic liberty. The latter however is a precondition for the former.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 19, 2011 12:59 AM GMT
    SoCal ... you can try and paint it any way you want but the proof is in the results

    There are two republicans who have been sent home packin and no democrats
    That is what happened

    NOW.........
    The results are that there is a majority of ONE in the Wisconsin Senate at this time and it's held by the republicans

    But HEY SoCal icon_biggrin.gif
    There was one republican who voted against the Union stripping Walker bill remember??

    Pssst ... and he wasn't one who was recalled
    So you know what you can do with your WSJ opinion piece ? icon_cool.gif
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    Aug 19, 2011 1:09 AM GMT
    GQjock saidSoCal ... you can try and paint it any way you want but the proof is in the results

    Yes, it really is simple
    Democratic and union goal - to take over control of the Senate. They FAILED. Very simple. Picking up a couple of seats was only the consolation prize, but at their main goal they FAILED. Simple enough to understand? Like language learning - maybe you have to use simple words and repeat them, and repeat them.
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    Aug 19, 2011 1:35 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. That's the dumbest editorial ever. And that's saying something since Murdoch took over the WSJ and rid the editorial page of minor details like facts. icon_lol.gif

    LOL - Must suck big time with the whole world leaving your ideology on the scrapheap of history.





    HAHAHAHA!
    Fucking delusional.

    What planet are you living on?

    The approval ratings for the Republican party are the lowest in decades - at an all-time low, as the matter of fact.
    Lower than in 2006 when the Dems took both houses of Congress.
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/09/cnn-poll-time-to-clean-house-in-congress/

    And the Teabaggers are more unpopular than atheists and Muslims.
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/survey-surprising-finding-tea-party-less-popular-atheists-160220531.html

    The extreme degree of your delusion is quite breathtaking.
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    Aug 19, 2011 1:37 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    GQjock saidSoCal ... you can try and paint it any way you want but the proof is in the results

    Yes, it really is simple
    Democratic and union goal - to take over control of the Senate. They FAILED. Very simple. Picking up a couple of seats was only the consolation prize, but at their main goal they FAILED. Simple enough to understand? Like language learning - maybe you have to use simple words and repeat them, and repeat them.
    Hmmmm lemme see..

    repubs had six seats to lose. They kept 4 and LOST 2
    dems had two seats to lose. They kept both and GAINED two.

    now who won and who lost?
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    Aug 19, 2011 2:56 AM GMT
    I guess both of you last two need to get the last word. GQMade the same point and I responded. So you two just repeat that. Was the Democratic goal to pick up two seats, or was it to take control of the Senate? You both know the answer, so go ahead and post your spin once again. You can have the last word. Don't be surprised if some of us don't take you seriously.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Aug 19, 2011 2:58 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. That's the dumbest editorial ever. And that's saying something since Murdoch took over the WSJ and rid the editorial page of minor details like facts. icon_lol.gif

    LOL - Must suck big time with the whole world leaving your ideology on the scrapheap of history.



    Now come on...lets make this productive! I appreciated all the help and support you gave me John with the MOTD voter fraud and the drama of yesterday... I just wish we could express ourselves here in a way that is a bit more reasonable.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Aug 19, 2011 3:01 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    GQjock saidSoCal ... you can try and paint it any way you want but the proof is in the results

    Yes, it really is simple
    Democratic and union goal - to take over control of the Senate. They FAILED. Very simple. Picking up a couple of seats was only the consolation prize, but at their main goal they FAILED. Simple enough to understand? Like language learning - maybe you have to use simple words and repeat them, and repeat them.


    Independent thnking republicans and democrats can make all the difference!
    It is 17-16 now.. and one republican is supportive.... true the democrats didn't take the senate.... but there was movement... and maybe when it counts, the republicans will FAIL!!! LOL
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    Aug 19, 2011 3:13 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. That's the dumbest editorial ever. And that's saying something since Murdoch took over the WSJ and rid the editorial page of minor details like facts. icon_lol.gif

    LOL - Must suck big time with the whole world leaving your ideology on the scrapheap of history.

    Now come on...lets make this productive! I appreciated all the help and support you gave me John with the MOTD voter fraud and the drama of yesterday... I just wish we could express ourselves here in a way that is a bit more reasonable.

    Sometimes a blunt statement begets a blunt response. But to put this in a perspective, Christian and I will debate, sometimes bluntly as you see here, but we have worked together outside of the political area in one bullying case. I think we have many areas of agreement, so while the discussion here can be blunt, it never gets personal, and I think Christian would agree.
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    Aug 19, 2011 3:27 AM GMT
    Responding to both jprichva and HndsmKansan:

    Reasoned discussion is possible with both of you gentlemen because you don't try and make ridiculous spin, as a couple of others did by maintaining the Wisconsin situation was an unqualified success for the Democrats and completely ignoring their key goal was to take control of the Senate.

    But I think both of you are incorrectly assessing the current situation and as a result are making an incorrect prediction. The issue with the tea party popularity results from the perception some have, fueled by the media, that they were too inflexible in negotiations and contributed to the theater in Congress. This particular set of events will recede and the overall dissatisfaction with the economy and jobs will persist. The position of the tea party, i.e. limited Government and deficit reduction, remains popular. More significantly, Obama will not be running against the tea party or John Boehner, so the current tea party poll numbers will not be all that relevant going forward. From Gallup as of yesterday:

    New Low of 26% Approve of Obama on the Economy
    August 17, 2011
    A new low of 26% of Americans approve of President Barack Obama's handling of the economy, down 11 percentage points since mid-May and by far the lowest of his presidency. More broadly, Obama is at a low ebb on five of seven major issues tested in the new poll.


    With this and the unemployment rate expected to remain above 8%, along with Obama staying with his ideology (vs Clinton), I am becoming more confident that there will be a change in November 2012. So you might want to hold onto those Tums.
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    Aug 19, 2011 3:52 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    socalfitness saidI guess both of you last two need to get the last word. GQMade the same point and I responded. So you two just repeat that. Was the Democratic goal to pick up two seats, or was it to take control of the Senate? You both know the answer, so go ahead and post your spin once again. You can have the last word. Don't be surprised if some of us don't take you seriously.

    As is often the case with you, you're partly correct: the goal was to take the Senate, and it didn't happen.

    But you're partly wrong too. The results show that the Teabag Tide has crested in Wisconsin. Far from becoming more popular, it seems that more and more people are fed up and disgusted with the Teabag Party and its loony adherents. The trends are all against you, even if the trend didn't extend far enough yet.

    I suspect you won't enjoy Election Night 2012. I am more than happy to send you a bottle of Tums, though. Just to ease the pain.





    I agree.
    But I don't think a few Tums - or even a whole bottle of them - will help poor socal.

    I think he may need extensive therapy or some heavy duty tranquilizers to get through the upcoming campaign season.
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    Aug 19, 2011 4:28 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    socalfitness saidI am becoming more confident that there will be a change in November 2012. So you might want to hold onto those Tums.

    You're entitled to your view, and I'm sure we can agree that one of us isn't going to like election night 2012 much.

    But I've never had heartburn in my life. (With my diet, who needs it?)

    On that we can agree. I am quite sure you made an observation maybe a year ago that if the economy did not improve, Obama would be toast.
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    Aug 19, 2011 9:51 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. That's the dumbest editorial ever. And that's saying something since Murdoch took over the WSJ and rid the editorial page of minor details like facts. icon_lol.gif

    LOL - Must suck big time with the whole world leaving your ideology on the scrapheap of history.



    Now come on...lets make this productive! I appreciated all the help and support you gave me John with the MOTD voter fraud and the drama of yesterday... I just wish we could express ourselves here in a way that is a bit more reasonable.


    MOTD voter fraud!??!?! Oh Nooooooooo! Surely not?!?!??!?!

    I'm literally rolling on the floor laughing!
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 19, 2011 11:21 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    GQjock saidSoCal ... you can try and paint it any way you want but the proof is in the results

    Yes, it really is simple
    Democratic and union goal - to take over control of the Senate. They FAILED. Very simple. Picking up a couple of seats was only the consolation prize, but at their main goal they FAILED. Simple enough to understand? Like language learning - maybe you have to use simple words and repeat them, and repeat them.


    Now SoCal Grasshopper icon_wink.gif
    Live and learn
    You may WANT to view the world with your republican colored glasses but the democrats were SUCCESSFUL in booting two republican asses not none ... that's a double negative ... but not one ..... but Two
    and what that did was to show that the republicans are in trouble with this anti-union stance

    Ask John Kasich down there in Ohio
    By your view he shoulda breathed a sigh of relief right?
    But NO .... he's a politician who sees that he's gonna lose and he's gonna lose big on this
    Hence he wants to negotiate with the unions

    and BTW? The Repeal Scotty thing is goin really well too icon_biggrin.gif
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    Aug 19, 2011 11:54 AM GMT
    GQjock said
    socalfitness said
    GQjock saidSoCal ... you can try and paint it any way you want but the proof is in the results

    Yes, it really is simple
    Democratic and union goal - to take over control of the Senate. They FAILED. Very simple. Picking up a couple of seats was only the consolation prize, but at their main goal they FAILED. Simple enough to understand? Like language learning - maybe you have to use simple words and repeat them, and repeat them.


    Now SoCal Grasshopper icon_wink.gif
    Live and learn
    You may WANT to view the world with your republican colored glasses but the democrats were SUCCESSFUL in booting two republican asses not none ... that's a double negative ... but not one ..... but Two
    and what that did was to show that the republicans are in trouble with this anti-union stance

    Ask John Kasich down there in Ohio
    By your view he shoulda breathed a sigh of relief right?
    But NO .... he's a politician who sees that he's gonna lose and he's gonna lose big on this
    Hence he wants to negotiate with the unions

    and BTW? The Repeal Scotty thing is goin really well too icon_biggrin.gif

    There must be something about your personality that would motivate to repeat your point to someone who has clearly stated they don't buy your shit.