Do you believe in "because he deserved it"?

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    Aug 26, 2011 7:42 AM GMT

    Oh about a decade ago, I had been obsessed with analyzing social interaction and the way to navigate through life. One of the things I made my mind up on was the justification of one's actions because of external circumstance.

    An example is saying "I broke his nose but he deserved it".

    Some say that because the nose-brokee was behaving badly, the assault was either a good act or a justifiable act. Meaning the circumstances define if your actions are good or bad.

    Another issue is, what if the puncher was wrong and the punchee wasn't the jerk he had thought. Does that change his act from good to bad?

    I came to believe that my actions are my own regardless of anything that's going on around me. The circumstances neither force me to act a certain way nor determine if it was right or wrong.

    The way I see it, if I hit someone in any situation, I have lowered my own quality, I've hurt someone. I will never again be able to say "I have never mistreated someone". I wasn't forced to act that way, others wouldn't have made the same choice, but that is what my brain decided to do. I can't blame anyone but myself.

    By the same token, if I help someone out, it reflects on my character and stays with me even if they didn't appreciate it.

    I've seen quite a few posts here where people will say "they deserve it" to excuse their ill intentions and cruelty. Do you think that is a legitimate excuse?
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    Aug 26, 2011 9:24 AM GMT
    Whether or not someone "deserves" it (whatever it may be) is pretty subjective. In the case of striking someone I would guess that the hitter is pretty pissed off and his judgement is impaired.

    Even if you know what your doing hitting can be dangerous. It can result in legal problems and possibly serious injury to the other person. If you hit someone in the temple for example, it can adversly affect areas of brain function. I've been told that it doesnt even have to be very hard, just enough and in the right spot. Maybe that's just something that guys talk about around the pool table or in the locker room, but similar things do happen. Professional boxers often inflict horrible permanent injuries even though that may not be thier intention.

    I've certainly been on both sides of this issue and I don't just mean my broken nose, but other kinds of punishment which I may or may not have deserved. Each incident is so specific it's hard to say when it was deserved. Obviously if someone is hurting another person and you need to get violent or aggresive to stop it that would be understandable.

    People toss phrases around without thinking of them literally - like "hating" someone or saying somthing like "I could've killed him". But the things we say can be risky if they happen to come true.
  • JP85257

    Posts: 3284

    Aug 26, 2011 9:48 AM GMT
    The night I made a stripper puke. Well...She deserved it.
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    Aug 26, 2011 11:17 AM GMT
    what about kids who are bullied and taunted and they finally had to strike back.

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    Aug 26, 2011 11:39 AM GMT
    Fivealive saidwhat about kids who are bullied and taunted and they finally had to strike back.



    + 1.

    Even the most passive person will "lose it" when they're fed up.
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    Aug 26, 2011 11:56 AM GMT
    Absolutely believe in "because he deserved it."

    I have been in quite a few physical fights over the years from not allowing people get away with gay slurs. Have had my ass beaten badly once, but mostly I inflict more damage then I receive.

    Bullies and anti gay homophobic idiots must be met head on no matter how big or small. If they come at you physically, you fight back physically. If you break their nose, jaw, split their lip, YES they deserved it. And YES it is justified.

    When I first came out to my family at 14, (rest of the world at 15), my older brother literally threw me down the stairs. No serious injury to me. But my father's golf club caused some justifiable injury to his cheekbone. icon_wink.gif

    Don't tolerate any gay bashing be it physical or verbal!! EVER.

    Tristan
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    Aug 26, 2011 12:16 PM GMT
    musclefetish1 saidAbsolutely believe in "because he deserved it."

    I have been in quite a few physical fights over the years from not allowing people get away with gay slurs. Have had my ass beaten badly once, but mostly I inflict more damage then I receive.

    Bullies and anti gay homophobic idiots must be met head on no matter how big or small. If they come at you physically, you fight back physically. If you break their nose, jaw, split their lip, YES they deserved it. And YES it is justified.

    When I first came out to my family at 14, (rest of the world at 15), my older brother literally threw me down the stairs. No serious injury to me. But my father's golf club caused some justifiable injury to his cheekbone. icon_wink.gif

    Don't tolerate any gay bashing be it physical or verbal!! EVER.

    Tristan



    This. (well except I don't have an older brother icon_redface.gif ), anyone who puts their hands on me gets back whatever they dish out. Starting in primary/elementary school groups of kids used to jump me, knock me to the ground and punch and kick the crap out of me- also had people stick my head down toilets, drag me around by my hair, rub my face in dogshit, been hit with a jockey/horse whip (don't know the proper name for it), try to break my arms/legs, push me into rose bushes, ponds, lakes etc) , so I finally learnt/learned to give back as good as I got...
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    Aug 26, 2011 1:20 PM GMT
    I stood up to my boss yesterday... because I DESERVED IT!
    Feels nice to have a spine again in that queen's face.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Aug 26, 2011 1:21 PM GMT
    sahem62896 saidI stood up to my boss yesterday... because I DESERVED IT!
    Feels nice to have a spine again in that queen's face.


    I thought you were getting along with him now?
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    Aug 26, 2011 1:31 PM GMT
    Well if Michelle Bachmann is punched in the face I will say a big SHE DESERVED IT.
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    Aug 26, 2011 3:05 PM GMT
    "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."

    Shakespeare
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    Aug 26, 2011 3:22 PM GMT
    sahem62896 saidI stood up to my boss yesterday... because I DESERVED IT!
    Feels nice to have a spine again in that queen's face.
    It's amazing how effective a spine can be in the workplace...especially when you're part of a minority that's stereotyped as limp-wristed and weak. icon_wink.gif
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    Aug 26, 2011 3:26 PM GMT
    musclefetish1 saidAbsolutely believe in "because he deserved it."

    I have been in quite a few physical fights over the years from not allowing people get away with gay slurs. Have had my ass beaten badly once, but mostly I inflict more damage then I receive.

    Bullies and anti gay homophobic idiots must be met head on no matter how big or small. If they come at you physically, you fight back physically. If you break their nose, jaw, split their lip, YES they deserved it. And YES it is justified.

    When I first came out to my family at 14, (rest of the world at 15), my older brother literally threw me down the stairs. No serious injury to me. But my father's golf club caused some justifiable injury to his cheekbone. icon_wink.gif

    Don't tolerate any gay bashing be it physical or verbal!! EVER.

    Tristan
    ^ this!
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    Aug 26, 2011 3:37 PM GMT
    "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

    Generally i always believe Karma will take care of things, but when it comes to situations like that you sometimes have to take matters in your hands, and become your own karma.
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    Aug 26, 2011 4:24 PM GMT
    I believe in holding Myself to the higher standard of physical violence (at least since I've gotten more mature) however, I do not believe that other people will always hold themselves to the same standard.. The action is based on circumstance.
    Case: three years ago, I ran around the corner to grab a bottle of white wine from a little urban foods market before they closed @ 11.

    Action: A weird guy (possibly on Speed) was standing infront of the door, I politely asked for him to excuse me. He turned around, screamed in my face, then decked me, badly breaking my nose.

    Reaction: I decked him, on instinct as well as self defense) breaking his jaw.

    Result: He was arrested, needed his jaw wired shut for who knows how long, and I had to have a very painful nose surgury, where they rebuilt the bridge of my nose with cartilledge from my rib.. No one wins.
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    Aug 26, 2011 4:26 PM GMT
    No.
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    Aug 26, 2011 4:35 PM GMT
    Ultraviolet13 saidI believe in holding Myself to the higher standard of physical violence (at least since I've gotten more mature) however, I do not believe that other people will always hold themselves to the same standard.. The action is based on circumstance.
    Case: three years ago, I ran around the corner to grab a bottle of white wine from a little urban foods market before they closed @ 11.

    Action: A weird guy (possibly on Speed) was standing infront of the door, I politely asked for him to excuse me. He turned around, screamed in my face, then decked me, badly breaking my nose.

    Reaction: I decked him, on instinct as well as self defense) breaking his jaw.

    Result: He was arrested, needed his jaw wired shut for who knows how long, and I had to have a very painful nose surgury, where they rebuilt the bridge of my nose with cartilledge from my rib.. No one wins.


    No one wins? Really? icon_eek.gif
    There are consequences for one's actions. That was his.
    You would have been OK with him breaking your nose and what......? Just going on his merry way? You didn't start this. This was not your fault. You can not stand there and let another person beat you and not retaliate.

    If you didn't, what would he had done next to you? Do you know? Do you know for a fact that it wouldn't had been worse?
    Of course not.
    You ended a violent encounter then and there, that may have continued.
    HE GOT WHAT HE DESERVED.

    Tristan
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    Aug 26, 2011 4:42 PM GMT
    Tristan, .. Hell yeah, that junkie mofo got what he deserved, no question about that. I've thought about it "Many" times, espeacially after nose surgury. It's actually lucky he pulled that shit before I went in the store, because on my way out I'd have been packing wine bottles an gone Milla Jovovich on his ass. But in the end, I got a broken nose that required surgury, a ruined evening, and a tiny broken bone in my right hand from punching the bastard.
    I'm glad I gave at least as good as I got... Can't help feeling like the rest was just physics..
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    Aug 26, 2011 4:52 PM GMT
    Ultraviolet13 saidTristan, .. Hell yeah, that junkie mofo got what he deserved, no question about that. I've thought about it "Many" times, espeacially after nose surgury. It's actually lucky he pulled that shit before I went in the store, because on my way out I'd have been packing wine bottles an gone Milla Jovovich on his ass. But in the end, I got a broken nose that required surgury, a ruined evening, and a tiny broken bone in my right hand from punching the bastard.
    I'm glad I gave at least as good as I got... Can't help feeling like the rest was just physics..


    See? So it really wasn't a "No one wins" situation. Personally I would have been happy for that outcome. (But I like to fight. Don't no why, I just do.)

    But I see your point.
    I am sorry you had to go through that ordeal.

    Tristan
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    Aug 26, 2011 5:01 PM GMT
    ▲ You one violent mo'fo.
  • smudgedude

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    Aug 26, 2011 5:02 PM GMT
    yeah, i think it's valid, but it's too easy to use that as a cop out excuse.
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    Aug 26, 2011 5:03 PM GMT
    musclefetish1 said
    Ultraviolet13 saidTristan, .. Hell yeah, that junkie mofo got what he deserved, no question about that. I've thought about it "Many" times, espeacially after nose surgury. It's actually lucky he pulled that shit before I went in the store, because on my way out I'd have been packing wine bottles an gone Milla Jovovich on his ass. But in the end, I got a broken nose that required surgury, a ruined evening, and a tiny broken bone in my right hand from punching the bastard.
    I'm glad I gave at least as good as I got... Can't help feeling like the rest was just physics..


    See? So it really wasn't a "No one wins" situation. Personally I would have been happy for that outcome. (But I like to fight. Don't no why, I just do.)

    But I see your point.
    I am sorry you had to go through that ordeal.

    Tristan


    LoL I like you, Tristan! Your a brawler!
    I'll admit I was satisfied with the ending, but it still doesn't seem like anyone really "won." I wasn't just a victim (good!) but I was still arguably as injured as he was (fail) so maybe I'm just too pragmatic? I'm a fighter by nature; my entire family has a mean streak, playing with my brother & cousins was like running a gauntlett, but I've tried be become a bit more passifiied as I get older. I'm still not above breaking my foot off in some fools ass if I need to though
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    Aug 26, 2011 5:04 PM GMT
    "Vengeance is Mine", saith the Lord, "I will repay".

    Or if you prefer a more secular wording, "What comes around, goes around".

    I'm not a big believer in taking revenge or holding grudges, etc.

    In terms of conflicts, I'll generally try to defuse the situation, or look for a peaceful way out.

    Of course, given no further options, I'll defend myself with all available weaponable objects in reach. ;)
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    Aug 27, 2011 6:19 AM GMT

    Well, this has turned into a discussion about the exception rather than the rule.

    If we exclude the situation where a person hits you first, do your opinions remain the same?

    To respond to the fistfight exception:
    Part of me thinks Ghandi is the most right, that by not fighting, you are not lowering yourself. Or that priest thing "if you need it badly enough to steal it, you can have it".

    But if I imagine someone breaking into my home and I can stop it by plunging a knife into their body, I might just do that. I still think that is a bad act though, something I wouldn't enjoy and would avoid if there was any other way (outthinking them, calling police, intimidation). If I ended up stabbing someone no matter how much I hated them, I would get them medical care.

    The way I see things, it's better to have 1 person punched than 2. If it will stop after 1, there's no need to hit back.

    Aside from fights:
    What if you think someone is a piece of shit person and you do something bad to them "because they deserve it" or "because they had it coming". Are you innocent?

    To me, the situation can be horrible and unfair, but it doesn't give me permission to do somethign wrong.
  • Joeyphx444

    Posts: 2382

    Aug 27, 2011 6:40 AM GMT
    When I see a mean person get beat or have something bad happen to them I definitely believe they deserve it