This is a takeoff and more specific thread than the topic about people never being satisfied but when it comes to men I think that this is really true. Men it seems are never satisfied, never happy, no one is looking to really settle down and no man is really serious about monogomy. It seems like just when you built something stable, and solid - something that you can count on, somebody else just wants to fawking stir things up. Even the old, monogomous gay longterm couples I have met are so fawking down on eachother with comments and criticisms that they can't stop thinking bout or checking out other, usually younger guys. Maybe this guy Rev. Gene Robinson, is different I really, really hope so but man all the other religious gay guys I know are just as bad.
So if religion is out as an option, what about living in a rural area? Or how bout two ugly guys, or being poor? Do you think that any of those factors would give a gay male relationship a better chance? Are bottoms more eager to cheat than tops, seems like it to me? Whats up with that, dont make no since at all. What do u think?
Don't get the wrong impression I am a positive guy, I have and want to achieve things other than sex and my "gay" life. I feel more resigned to the fact than bitter bout the whole deal. Men are shit, but it seems that is just by nature.
I saw this study bout how hetero men have more sucessful relationship if their wife is considered better looking than they are, because if the the wife is equal or less attactive then the men are more likely to disrespect them and step out on their "inferior" women. The study found this to be true even if the men claimed that they loved their wives. Only when the men are under the gun and feel priviledged to have a really hot wife are they willing to stay loyal. What the fawk will keep gay men loyal?
By the way, I am not ugly, or fat, I have very low body fat, really nice face, and great body stats. I wear a size 14 shoe and wide. I get lots of attention but dont ask for it, women take pic of me with their cell phones on the street. I am hot and yet I cant get no respect. If I cant get no respect how the hell can anybody else?
There is no reason whatsoever that two gay men can't be monogamous if that's what they both want.
Human beings have the ability to choose how they will behave no matter how tempting their options are. If one doesn't want to be monogamous, don't use biology as an excuse. Man up and be honest about what you want.
As a relative newbie to the gay scene, recovering from my former heterosexual self, I can tell you this is true. The basis of a hetero relationship is creating a family, which is also a motivator to stay monogamous... without this in most homosexual relationships, what is there? Seems like the basis of alot of relationships is sexual and physical, and when that goes, so does the attention span. Sad.
Why sad? If this is what we are, this is what we are. Embrace it. Don't feel you have to want something you don't want. You can't make yourself enjoy something that you can't tolerate. It's like making someone who's left handed use his right hand only.
You are right! I am a cave man at heart, and I am going to go out this weekend and drag me home a hottie! It should be liberating to get out and explore new horizons rather than going home to a wife and crying kids eatting away at my retirement fund and trying to convince me to take a Disney Cruise! WOO HOO! THANKS McG, that original post got me down and on the wrong mindset!
You just haven't found anyone that you think is loyal to you yet studd. I know I'm one of those guys who can commit. When I'm not committed to though then I might give a dose of his own medicine. on second thought, I'm not that cruel. I'll just leave. The best move out there though, is the one where a guy gives you a cell phone a tells you to call him, instead of just a number, I did that once.
I totally agree with Timberoo. It's all about choice.
RunintheCity is right too. The average straight person is not more likely to be monogamous than the average gay person. People are people and temptation is temptation.
Timberoo saidThere is no reason whatsoever that two gay men can't be monogamous if that's what they both want.
Human beings have the ability to choose how they will behave no matter how tempting their options are. If one doesn't want to be monogamous, don't use biology as an excuse. Man up and be honest about what you want.
but couldn't the same argument be made about homosexuality in general?
On the one hand, I think it's odd that gay men often try to superimpose the heterosexual courting and marriage model upon the gay experience. On the other hand, I think we need to acknowledge that sexuality is one of -- if not the most -- defining characteristics of gay life. For some people, spending one's life with that special someone is completely acceptable and appropriate. For others, limiting one's sexual experience to a single person is constraining and, dare I say, near to impossible. Those in the second category may find that, by occasionally playing together, they can fulfill certain sexual fantasies while also maintaining a loving, committed relationship. This is tricky, though, as it requires clear boundaries and strong communication skills.
The bottom line is that, along the same lines as Timberoo's sentiments, "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and freedom." (-Viktor Frankl)
And by the way, men aren't so much "shit" as they are hard-wired to sow their wild oats. I believe this to be an evolutionary instinct which, at least among heterosexuals, is designed to ensure the propagation of the species. Rather than dismiss all men as whoring bastards, perhaps it's better to acknowledge the way things are and to adjust expectations and attitudes, accordingly.
I was in a 3 yr relationship and had no problem with monogamy- as some people here said, if it is what you want, then you will have it. It can be challenging, but it's not impossible. Not all guys spend their time dicking around, even when they're single.
You end with telling us how hot you are and how you can't find guys who respect you. Have you considered that perhaps this is your fault? The innuendo about how big your dick is was very lovely, but why get us all hot an bothered while complaining about dearth of monogamous men? Maybe the problem is that you are looking for men who are not interested in a LTR. There are certainly legions of men out there who want monogamy and a home and children and all that stuff.
nickd1975 saidAs a relative newbie to the gay scene, recovering from my former heterosexual self, I can tell you this is true. The basis of a hetero relationship is creating a family, which is also a motivator to stay monogamous... without this in most homosexual relationships, what is there? Seems like the basis of alot of relationships is sexual and physical, and when that goes, so does the attention span. Sad.
I have to disagree with the statement of the basis of heterosexual relationships is to create a family and I'm assume having children. There are quite a few married, and not, heterosexual couples who have chosen not to have children. I know quite a few of them. Each has a reason for their coupling and seem to be content to varying degrees.
Again, it's about the choices we make in our lives. Do you choose to have or not have children? Do you choose to be monogomous? This applies to anyone, gay, straight, bi.
jackozmodernlife said[quote][cite]Timberoo said[/cite]There is no reason whatsoever that two gay men can't be monogamous if that's what they both want.
Human beings have the ability to choose how they will behave no matter how tempting their options are. If one doesn't want to be monogamous, don't use biology as an excuse. Man up and be honest about what you want.
but couldn't the same argument be made about homosexuality in general?[/quote]
You are in your 30's and you seem so jilted and cynical. Try searching on this site for all the guys that are in monogamous relationships. Also, try reading some of the threads where guys write about wanting to be in a monogamous relationship. You must be looking in all the wrong places. Maybe, if you tried carrying a more positive attitude about gay guys out there you would meet up with a guy who is a hottie like yourself and you could live happily ever after and all that.
I've never had trouble being monogamous. It's the 9 out of 10 guys who cheated on me who had the problem. It hurts, and I haven't, don't and won't done it to anyone else. I don't put my dick before my heart and mind. I really don't think there's a good reason to cheat on someone, or to do it as revenge or a way to pass the buck to the next guy. It's stupid and so are cheaters. Yes, I'm inbittered by cheating guys. A really man doesn't cheat. A real owns up to his commitments. I won't embrace a pathetic copout just because it may feel good, and be easily blamed on the mere fact that I happen to be a gay man. That's bull.
I believe monogamy is like everything in life a choice, I also believe you shouldn’t just settle for anyone, for monogamy to work both individuals must agree to it, you’ll realize once you find that “perfect” person you’ll see monogamy not as a chore but an honorable obligation.
Back in 2001, I left my partner after 17 years. In that time our relationship was mongomous...it was simply "not an option" to "play" (I still cringe when I hear that word). I've only slept with 2 guys in the last 5 years. Both I dated, so no tricks for me...My inner-circle of friends here in Dallas are all coupled. I only have one single friend and within our group he's considered the "slut"....My "couple" friends ALL play outside of their relationships. They're quite open about it...I've taken a "It doesn't effect me" attitude. Sometimes when we go out as a group, I get uneasy with the situation...it seems like nobody goes out to have fun with their friends...they go out to find a hook-up...it frustrates me. I always have that vision of "The Hunger" in my head where the vampires go out to the bars to find their "prey", take them home, ravage the prey, throw it out into the dumpster, kiss their mate good night and have sweet dreams about how "in love" they are. I don't know who I'm more repulsed by....the couple or the "prey" that chooses to go home with the couple.
raise your hand if you want to die alone with no legacy...
Sort of a separate issue from monogamy, but in the same ballpark. We all want different things in life. For some people here and now is enough, for others with foresight, its a bit different. I personally like the idea of family. Friends come and go and relationships are uncertain but family has always been there for me. How could I not want to perpetuate that? Of course I'm not looking to start a family right now, but I hope I will eventually when the time is right.
As far as open relationships go, why not, so long as its open for both and there is a clear understanding of boundaries etc and both are capable of separating sex from emotions. But sneaking around and expecting the other guy to stay monogamous is not fair.
Gosh, I feel my hand going up! No legacy? What do you mean?
In my experience, some men are capable of, and want, a monogamous relationship. Maybe you're not attracted to that type (they may not spend hours at the gym in preference to developing themselves as people)
I get the feeling (but I'm no social scientist) that women, in essence, slow men down in hetero relationships and that men, by and large (but not always!) are "pigs," "dogs," or what have you.
So, when two dogs get together, what can one expect?
Wow, thanks for all the comments, man I really a'preciate it. Personally I am in a difficult situation where I have access to plenty of hot guys but since I am closeted it is more difficult for me to act on it. I really dont want to add "looking for sex" as a complication to my life. My b/f is hot and can do whatever he wants without such problems. He is very good at creating such situations, fucking brilliant, and I am sure that he has thought this out. The thing is I really do care for him. The last time he cheated he bought me a car-a nice one- this time nothing. I dont need a another car, if I want one I can buy it myself. I just need honesty, and loyality. I don't want to throw him out but while he has renounced outside sex for now, the whole thing bothers me. Yes, I am most likely insecure about it, possessive in a kinda retro cave-man way. Is it wrong to want loyality/committment, if not honesty? Why do I have it invested in sexual committment? Why is it all about sexual loyality. Am I repressed? Does repressing my gay identity lead to a repression of a natural desire to have sex with more than one guy? I dont want to get a disease, and may have caught a minor one from him. Sex is ok, but not great like it use to be, he is less into it and claims that his overall drive is down but I am not so sure that if given the opportunity he wouldn't jump on it.
What about dealing with cheating? How have different couples dealth with someone stepping out on them in the relationship? How do you get over that and move on in gay relationships? Man, this is is eating me up. How would you organize an open relationship, he says he doesn't want to play together if it is open. We are different types so he thinks it would not work out. How do open couples manage that? If you have sex with others only when you travel what if you could travel whenever you wanted? Man how do you put limits on a life with no limits? The thing is now I got to thinking, if he is steping out all disrespecting our relationship then there are sexual things that I could get into, fawking kinky and sh--t, but then again where does this leave us as a couple, me as a person? So I can be as divided bout this as anyone else, but then I dont want to go there because its like drugs and alchol, it can really spiral outta control. Again staying together how do you keep it together within some limits when your life is mostly without limits?
Would like to hear from more couples bout this, or if anybody knows where couples would talk bout this deep sh--t,not many monogomous couples here and like to know how the couples here overcame these issues that it seems like are common to us all. Thanks everyone
I think the thing I find most common is relationships with gay men, is they become very locked at the hips together..
What I mean is, everyone one goes, the other goes too.
I think that many men place to much stock in the relationship and stop going out and having fun with friends, having "mate" time I suppose I'd call it.
I think that both people need to have there own interests (outside of work) and actively pursue them for them selfs yes its great to bring your partner into it, thats great, but you also need to do things on your own without them.
of course, this is just my working theory. I know that when I'm with mates and when I'm with a partner I'm different, not totally, but with mates there are things we will find hysterical but our partners wouldn't or story's or what ever, your just different with mates..
And with a partner, I'm more gentle, loving, caring and would never do or say some of the things I'd say to a mate!
I want a mono relationship. Been through the 1 night stands in the 80s and 90s, which weren't worth a damn. Give me a partner for life and you won't see me here again. Guess I am too selective
Why do people buy into the myth of monogamy in the first place? It's a societal structure and not a natural state with only 3 to 5 percent of the roughly 5,000 species of mammals (including humans) known to form lifelong, monogamous bonds.
Monogamy depends on the individual, and cheating isn't just a "gay disease." Men who are insecure often want their cake, and they want to eat it too. Do they do it for the rush? The power? Just because they're horny and the person's there? Women are just as guilty, but they're more apt to do it because they're emotionally insecure I think. Either way, if someone were ever to do that to me I'd get the message that.
"I like having you around, but I don't respect you at all. I don't care if you're hurt by my actions emotionally. The fact that I might come home with an STD and pass it on to you has never occurred to me because I'm such a self centered sack of @#$% I don't care. I may ruin your health and future, but at least I got mine."
Some people are like this, a lot aren't. Attention isn't drawn to the good people in this World unfortunately. If gay men were drawn toward the healthy, happy, and balanced people we wouldn't be so jaded. It's a vicious circle. It's what happens when a person places more value on looks than who the person is on the inside.
Edit: I'm not talking about open relationships where both people are consenting to the arrangement. I'm talking about people who sneak around on their lovers.
Runninchlt saidDo they do it for the rush? The power? Just because they're horny and the person's there?
I blame it on porn....men today believe in order to have a "satisfying and fulfilling" sex-life, they have to act out their porn fantasies...after all, isn't the porn-star the "ultimate" in our society? Seems that way, the way we line up to have our picture taken with them and get our DVD signed by the latest "it-boi".
Timberoo saidWhy do we buy into the myth of toilet training?
Kind of non sequitor, don't you think? Monogamy serves an evolutionary purpose, just as does whoring around. In the former case, offspring are afforded greater stability and protection in a monogamous family, thus helping to ensure survival of the species. In the latter case, human seed is spread far and wide, thus helping to ensure the survival of the species. Wow, weird that both models serve a similar purpose, huh?
ruck_us said[quote][cite]Timberoo said[/cite]Why do we buy into the myth of toilet training?
Kind of non sequitor, don't you think? [/quote]
Not really. I choose to believe humans are capable of choosing how they want to behave when they understand what their options are.
To me, if someone feels they need to come up with reasons or excuses to behave they way they want, then they must feel on a deeper level that it's wrong.
studd saidIs it wrong to want loyality/committment, if not honesty?
Nothing wrong with wanting it. So, you're not getting it from him. That's a problem. I don't think the problem is with you, if you entered your relationship with the expectation that it would be monogamous. Have you changed your mind about monogamy? If not, change your mind about this guy. If he can do so well without you, you may be able to do well without him.
studd saidWhat about dealing with cheating?
Do you want to kill him for cheating? Don't. But don't put up with any bullshit. If he agrees that cheating is bad, but does it anyway, don't put up with it. If he thinks cheating is okay (doubt it, since you got a car out of it) and you don't, don't put up with it. If you both think cheating is okay, drop it, fuck around, and make sure both of you use protection and get your shots.
studd saidWould like to hear from more couples bout this...
In my relationship, I've given the OKAY to cheat to him. In that, if some hot stud invokes a raging hard-on in him while I'm away for the weekend, he should go for it, take pictures and video. If he's going to leave me for the other, fucking leave me, so I can start my life over now. But if it's a fling, I'm not threatened (except if he's not having safe sex). To this date, no cheating, and it's going on 9 years. Maybe I wear him out.
We are sexual beings, and we are hard wired to seek out as many beautiful sexual partners as we can.
I think / I believe that honesty, love and trust are more important than monogamy. I don't believe that straying occasionally should necessarily be THE determinative factor in two people building a future together in a loving supportive relationship.
What I mean is, with my haranguing and nagging. Not with my, er, stamina.
Poor guy, he's cutting off people in traffic, chewing out customer service (not the good ones, the bad ones), and learning how to be short. Thinking he's impressing me. I tell him, don't change for me! I couldn't date myself.
I know guys in strong monogamous relationships. With human beings, anything is possible. I must admit from my observations though, gay monogamous couples are a rare event. But do exist.
IMHO, the gay movement went seriously off the rails when there was the push to assimilate straight norms, including perceived monogomy. I say "perceived" because men (and women) are just as likely to cheat in their relationships as gay people. Monogomy is a cute idea and rock on to those who can make it work. HOWEVER IMHO, it is asking a lot for another person to satisfy all your emotional and sexual needs 100% of the time. People need variety and the more honest we are about that, the better our relationships. Just as I don't expect to satisfy my man all the time, nor should I expect him to satisfy me all the time. This is simply reality.
It seems that the relationships that are open and "play together" are the ones that work and last. There are the exceptions where monogamy is the rule. But most of the gay relationships are okay with sharing their mate sexually and with certain rules.
Balljunkie saidIt seems that the relationships that are open and "play together" are the ones that work and last. There are the exceptions where monogamy is the rule. But most of the gay relationships are okay with sharing their mate sexually and with certain rules.
I don't know where you get this idea from, I know very few open relationships that work.
Actually, multiple studies have come to the conclusion that there is no difference in the quality of open and monogamous gay relationships. In at least one study, it was found that open relationships actually tend to last longer than monogamous ones, which are characterized by more dependency than the open ones.
Here are some sources:
"A study from 2002 in The Advocate magazine reported that only one-third of gay male couples are sexually exclusive (Advocate Sex Poll, 2002), and that the AIDS epidemic has not changed this basic statistic from previous years. Many circles of gay male friends would casually suggest this percentage is much lower, with a common phrase being, "Do you know any gay couple that is truly monogamous?" Perhaps this somewhat cynical perception is right." (From: http://tinyurl.com/5wb6uu
I've met more hetero couples, married and not, that have cheated than gay couples, so I don't believe any of it. It believe it is choice, I'm one is totally committed when in a relationship, if I'm not happy enough with just my man, than it just isn't working, and we go our own ways.
I've been in one ltr that was over 3 years, never cheated, or been tempted to. We both pointed out hot guys, but never felt the need to have sex with others.
This article again? YES, monogomy is possible. If you don't believe it, then you must be one of those that just goes out a screws anything that has a pulse. Sure, the majority of gay guys are just looking to fuck.. but believe me, there are plenty of guys that just want to be with that one person and that's it. Those who don't believe it, then you obviously haven't found the right person.
It is worth noting that several studies have noted that monogamy's importance is greater with younger men. I know that when I was in my 20s, I couldn't imagine being in an open relationship. By the time I was 35, I couldn't imagine being in a monogamous one.
Monogamy is just as important, or more so, to me now as is was to me in my early twenties. I also know some gay guys that found monogamy more important when they got older, and passed the phase of wanting to see what's out there, and wanted some stability. Each person is different, main thing is to know that monogamy is possible with gay men.
So to many, there is no emotional relationship; it's all about having an orgasm. No caring, no love; just getting together for sex and hanging out together for the availability of sex. This is both hilarious and sad. Is the concept and the experience of real gay love only a non-existent ideal? Are some saying the highest hope they see in gay relationships is pure hedonism? What about the emotional pain inflicted in the lives of those treated with such callous attitude? Wow! no wonder the gay community is so screwed up emotionally; that is such a destructive and hopeless paradigm for those whose need to love and be loved motivate them to search beyond the 5 second orgasm. It's not long after being convinced that a man is nothing more than an animal that he regresses into the species of his expectation. Geesh! How shallow and depressing.
Monogamy, while having little biological or evolutionary purpose, normally simplifies relationships. At least there is no case against favouritism!
I have been in a monogamous relationship for more than 6 years, and I know couples who have been monogamous for more than ten. Yes, it can happen. It is founded on a relationship of respect and love, and a lot of self-control.
Monogamy means safe sex is out the door. (bareback, anyone?)
Anything goes. We can roleplay to points that would never happen with a stranger. (I remember the time we played 'Garage-men Mechanics, Hot, Down and Dirty' until we noticed that the PICTURE window in the garage was NOT reflecting light. The neighbours got a real education that day.)
Monogamy takes away from the sorority of men that sleep aound with each other, so small wonder that it's vilified by so many. We're considered castasides by many as there's 'no potential'. Huh.
I've read articles about gay couples struggling to give each other the 'gift' of sexual freedom as in multiple sex partners. Crabs, scabies, warts, herpes and other safe sex side-effects in an open relationship just isn't our thing.
Bill says, " Why must monogamy constantly be a negative target? Whenever monogamous couples are 'outed' we are constantly slapped down as being liars or dysfunctional, however, if one was to take a look around and get to know monogamous couples they would find out they are a great number of great people keeping a low profile to avoid ostracism by their peers, as in other gay men. Probably why we have trouble finding other couples like us."
'scuse typos, but I have to type FAST when Bill gets a-going!
I've read articles about gay couples struggling to give each other the 'gift' of sexual freedom as in multiple sex partners. Crabs, scabies, warts, herpes and other safe sex side-effects in an open relationship just isn't our thing.
Nothing against monogamy here...if it's achievable, all the more power to those who can pull it off. However, I think you're generalizing to suggest that ALL couples in "Open Relationships" are practicing unsafe sex and thus suffering the side-effects, because that simply isn't true. I know quite a few couples who are still together because they "opened" up their relationship a bit. I'm not saying that is for everyone, only that I have seen it work for some, and also salvage a relationship that otherwise was in danger of falling apart.
No no, neither of us would ever state that all guys in open relationships, or single, practice unsafe activities!
But the things that go wrong IN safe sex are those we said as they only require skin contact to contract them and nothing more.
Are you referring to cyber-sex as the new 'safe sex'? If so, then no, nothing is catching except sore eyes. heheh.
In an open relationship each must trust the other not to forget themselves when with another, then bring something home. I tried open relationships years before I met Bill. Nothing like a bottle of Kwellada in the bathroom cabinet, or a trip to the Doc's iffice for a little liquid nitrogen on the privates- and that's from Safe Sex.
Is this topic for real? I don't like the fact that such a comment about gay men can be made so recklessly. I know more gay men who are more capable of being faithful then your typical straight man who has a wife, kids, a good job and a house with a white picket fence.
Monogamy has nothing to do with a persons sexual preference or postion (top/bottom). It all comes down to a person's state of mind and what he or she holds value to like say a relationship. The opportunity to cheat is 24/7 and it doesn't take a vacation.
I find it hilarious that you have to comment on how hot you are and then personalize the fact that if a supposed hot guy like you can't get any respect then how can others. You seriously need an adjustment somewhere in your life and personality and need to come off that high horse. LOL. If you aren't getting respect it's more then likey because you aren't giving it and having a cocky arrogant attitude (not be confused with confidence) doesn't make the situation any better.
Guys like you never end up in monogamous relationships because you're all vain as hell and generally end up being the ones who cheat or call the relationship off because you're never satisified. LOL.
Go mickey!
AWWwwww
