People are telling Hillary to drop out...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 08, 2008 1:17 PM GMT
    I'm listening to NPR right now, and they're talking about Hillary Clinton's campaign. In particular, they're making a point about how even her own supporters are telling her that it's time to withdraw, but she won't. Some of supporters are starting to throw their support behind Obama. I'm just curious to hear what you guys have to say about this. I even want to know what those of you outside the US have to say about this.
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    May 08, 2008 1:21 PM GMT
    I started out cheering for Hillary Clinton, but her obstinance about not facing up to reality and putting the party first has really pissed me off. She is coming off as a power hungry egotist who wants to beat Obama more than McCain.

    If she really cared about the Democrats winning in November she would do the graceful and noble thing and throw her support 100% behind Barack Obama and start mending the rift that has developed.

    That is my rant for the day.
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    May 08, 2008 1:31 PM GMT
    I agree...in the beginning, I was supporting John Edwards. When he dropped out of the race, I started looking at the remaining 2 candidates. What I saw coming from Hillary was disgusting. Typical mud-slinging that only serves to bring the party down in the end.
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    May 08, 2008 1:38 PM GMT
    A competitive campaign has lead to incredible interest where normally there is little. 300,000 new democrats in Pennsylvania. A campaign office opened in Guam for the first time EVER. The Democratic party in Wyoming has grown by 300%. This illusion of competitiveness has done great things for the party.

    But now registration deadlines and the usefulness of an illusion of competitiveness have passed. It is my opinion that whether she stays or goes is irrelevant at this point. She will most likely have big wins in WV, KY, and PR. But it wont do her a lick of good.
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    May 08, 2008 1:46 PM GMT
    Well i seen Hillary as power hungry egotist, long before the election race. This was something she did not have planes for while in the White House. This may well be her last chance to achieve, her goal of being the first Mrs President.

    Hillary first not the party. The gay movment would not move forward at all, with her in the top job, as this would not help Hillery. The gay vote may.

    She should hold on to some dignity, and let go off her ego, and her balls, and step down.
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    May 08, 2008 2:08 PM GMT
    Actually, I continue to believe that she should stay in the race for several reasons, even though I am completely convinced that she will not win the nomination.

    1. Showing that the Democratic Party is a true testament to democracy by allowing all states their chance to vote. There are only five states and one territory left to vote, and only one month more of this primary campaign. I think it would be a travesty if we didn't, at this point, allow the race to go on and give all Democrats in all states a say in this election. This is a great thing for the party to showcase to the country.

    2. It doesn't allow McCain the opportunity to get his name out there in a big way. As the race continues, the media continues to focus almost entirely on the Democrats. This is a good thing for the party, as it creates an enormous amount of name recognition. Any negative name recognition can be fixed after June, but at least the nominee will be known to everyone.

    3. The potential embarrassment Obama would face if Clinton dropped out and ended up winning in one of the remaining primary states anyway. This has happened before, to Bill Clinton in 1992 in fact. After his main rival--Sen. Tsongas--backed out of the race, Clinton was expected to cruise to victory; however, he ended up losing to a lesser rival--Gov. Brown of California--in Connecticut. It was a huge embarrassment. Clinton's continued presence in the campaign ensures that Obama will not be embarrassed in the way that McCain is being embarrassed right now, since voters in Republican primaries continue to register some major numbers for candidates like Huckabee, even though he dropped out.

    I think that the gnashing of teeth on the part of Democrats is incredibly overstated and we in the party all just need to calm down a bit. There was an excellent piece in Glenn Greenwald's column from Salon.com about how Democrats need to stop worrying so much about the media echo chamber that is being created by right wingers who have no honest intentions of helping out the Democratic party.
  • darkeyedresol...

    Posts: 171

    May 08, 2008 2:13 PM GMT
    I will always support Hillary, always did and continue to do so. She wants to keep going, she is within her right to do it. WV will be a big win for her, she wants to end on a higher note than Tuesday. Hillary has a done a lot of good for the party, like being instrumental in getting the last Democrat elected president. I believe she keeps running because she still believes she will win and the party has turned its back on her. After being set up by the media and the party since 04 as the presumptive Democratic Nominee, that is a lot to give up on. I think she is sympathic in that regard, this was suppose to be her history making moment and its slipped away. You can all make those comments about entitlement but a nomination battle is not the election, there is more going on than just party members voting.

    My only concern is for her legacy than anything else, because of how twisted and cruel Obama supporters and liberal grassroots have become towards her. When I have to read comments that compare her to Hilter, call her a beast, a racist, and whatever words equal a demon; then I worry about her. I probably shouldn't, Hillary does have an ability to fight back and knock down those trying to beat her. No one took her seriously back in AK and now she is running for President, and coming so very close to getting there. She is a great democrat, no matter what the idiots say, she is the one that has been fighting for Democratic ideals like universal healthcare a lot longer than Obama. I just have a hard time stomaching the ideas of validating those people by voting for Obama.

    I have to laugh though when all these people bitch about mud slinging, people must have no idea of political history and should stop being such babies. She drew hard constrasts and pointed out his flaws, I guess I can expect a similar bitching when McCain does it. I guess thats another reason why I like Hillary, she doesn't make politics to be more than what it is. It's hard, tough, dirty and winning is all that matters.
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    May 08, 2008 2:17 PM GMT
    Chewey, those are some interesting contrarian ideas. I was just going to agree that she should drop out now, but I'm going to have to reconsider.

    I will say that initially I preferred her to Obama because of her concrete ideas about certain policies, particularly health care. But since then, she has lost a lot of my support. The gas-tax holiday looks like foolish pandering to me.

    I am kind of hoping that she does not become the candidate for VP (if she is even interested in it).
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    May 08, 2008 2:34 PM GMT
    I'm not even a Hillary supporter, but I don't think she should drop out at all. It's WAY too close, there are still several states to vote, and Obama may have a few more "smoking guns" hiding in his closet. If he does, you can be sure that the Hillary camp will be dragging them out for all to see, and in true Clinton fashion the timing will surely be impeccable. It's gonna be a NASTY general election. Fasten your seat belts!

  • Paradigm_Shif...

    Posts: 251

    May 08, 2008 2:37 PM GMT
    I think Jon Steward said it best when Obama was on the Daily Show last week. He asked Obama:

    "Are you worried that come January, during your inauguration while you're being sworn in, Hilary will STILL be campaigning?" lol.
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    May 08, 2008 2:38 PM GMT
    Barack Obama will not win the general election if he's nominated. He doesn't have a chance with the middle class. He basically said that people cling to Jesus because they're bitter, not because they genuinely love him.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    May 08, 2008 2:42 PM GMT
    MaximForLife saidBarack Obama will [i]not
    win the general election if he's nominated. He doesn't have a chance with the middle class. He basically said that people cling to Jesus because they're bitter, not because they genuinely love him.[/i]



    I totally agree, and I think this is exactly why Hillary is staying in the race because the bottom-line is that she probably has a better chance beating McCain than Obama does. I don't think Obama can win when push comes to shove. Hillary on the other hand probably has a shot.
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    May 08, 2008 2:48 PM GMT
    MaximForLife saidBarack Obama will not win the general election if he's nominated. He doesn't have a chance with the middle class. He basically said that people cling to Jesus because they're bitter, not because they genuinely love him.


    I don't really think I believe that. One benefit of Clinton's campaign is that it's forced him to focus his main message more on substantials instead of just the message of change that resonated so well with the upper and educated crusts. I think Obama's got a lot of middle class appeal, and once Clinton throws her support behind him--and she will--he'll pick up a lot more of those middle and working class voters.
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    May 08, 2008 3:15 PM GMT
    MaximForLife saidBarack Obama will not win the general election if he's nominated. He doesn't have a chance with the middle class. He basically said that people cling to Jesus because they're bitter, not because they genuinely love him.


    Polling suggests otherwise. Clinton and Obama have very different, but equal electability.

    And exit polling shows that the middle class is not a problem for Obama but the lower class. But even in the most recent contests we can see that he was competitive with people of all income levels.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    May 08, 2008 3:20 PM GMT
    I don't think the polls mean crap. If they did, John Kerry (shutter to think) would be our President.

    The dems have a huge task ahead of them to unite the party, and it remains to be seen if this will be enough to take back The White House. I think McCain will prove a far more formidable candidate this fall than a lot of people give him credit for.
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    May 08, 2008 3:26 PM GMT
    The "Ice Queen" is Melting thank God!!!!!!!!!!!
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    May 08, 2008 3:39 PM GMT
    darkeyedresolve said
    My only concern is for her legacy than anything else, because of how twisted and cruel Obama supporters and liberal grassroots have become towards her. When I have to read comments that compare her to Hilter, call her a beast, a racist, and whatever words equal a demon; then I worry about her.


    Yeah, because no Clinton supporters have ever done anything like that to Obama. I think focusing on what a small group on either side does gives them more attention than they should be getting.


    As for if should drop out, I think that is her choice and others really shouldn't try to make it for her. I am curious her motivation is since she lost months ago, but that is just morbid curiosity.

  • May 08, 2008 3:59 PM GMT
    It is time for HRC to drop out of the race. When someone puts $6.4 million into her own campaign, as she has had to do within the past month, that is a clear indication that her support is dwindling. Too much is at stake (i.e. likely Supreme Court nominations) in November's General Election to gamble with the possibility of a continued and prolonged challenge and what its impact might have in November.

    An old Finnish proverb says that "Stubbornness is a virtue, pigheadedness a vice". HRC and Bill, as I see it, simply are being pigheaded and are not dealing with reality. The Clinton era is over and it's time to move on and the sooner this reality is clear to the Clintons the better it will be for the Democratic Party and the nation as a whole.
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    May 08, 2008 4:06 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI don't think the polls mean crap. If they did, John Kerry (shutter to think) would be our President.


    Without polling there is no other metric by which we can judge a candidates electability. Polling is also different than it was in 2004. Then Zogby was considered the gold standard. Today it is almost admired for its immense suckage. So, barring polls such statements are just fluff.
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    May 08, 2008 4:10 PM GMT
    MaximForLife saidBarack Obama will not win the general election if he's nominated. He doesn't have a chance with the middle class. He basically said that people cling to Jesus because they're bitter, not because they genuinely love him.


    I think most of America's working class is smarter than you think and can figure out what Barack meant when he made that statement. The numbers in Indiana show that he did well enough with working class white voters to keep the sizable win that she'd expected to have from happening.

    Hannity, Limbaugh, and others are now trying to get everyone to say that "Eve was weak" (I'm talking about their new reverse psychology battle cry to tell everyone that Barack is weak so vote for him) because they see Barack as a threat and will do anything to knock him down.

    Hillary only hurts herself by staying in. She's had several years of campaining for the presidency, yet now her campaign is in debt and she hasn't sealed the nomination herself. Her fighting has helped swing voters who are part of the working middle class, like me, study and recognize that Barack is the best Presidential candidate that we have for this election cycle. She's shown just how power hungry she is and I don't like it.

    I wish she would drop out, but if she stays in until June 15, as has been stated, then whatever. What doesn't kill Barack has only made him stronger. So let her stay in so she can continue to sharpen him and make him a better candidate.

    I'll stay tuned to what is being said on The Huffington Post, Stephanie Miller, Randi Rhodes, MSNBC, Crooks And Liars, and Think Progress. Barack has the numbers in favor of him, and I don't think that the electoral college is made up of a bunch of working middle class whites. Aren't they more the "elite" types?
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    May 08, 2008 4:18 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said[quote][cite]MaximForLife said[/cite]Barack Obama will not win the general election if he's nominated. He doesn't have a chance with the middle class. He basically said that people cling to Jesus because they're bitter, not because they genuinely love him.


    Polling suggests otherwise. Clinton and Obama have very different, but equal electability.

    And exit polling shows that the middle class is not a problem for Obama but the lower class. But even in the most recent contests we can see that he was competitive with people of all income levels. [/quote]

    Polls now are interesting, but not a great indicator of how things will turn out in November.

    It will be interesting to see how "dirty" the campaign will get between McCain and Obama. McCain does not seem to like negative ads and Obama tries to come across as a new type of politician. Maybe we will actually have a couple of candidates that have a sheen of common decency (although I am not holding my breath on that one).
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    May 08, 2008 4:21 PM GMT
    I'm Canadian but i'm obsessed with this right now.

    I love the Clinton's but I think for the good of the democratic party she should step aside and let Obama move forward, by June 1st at the latest. This has to be causing division within the party when all democrats should be uniting.
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    May 08, 2008 4:22 PM GMT
    I was an early Hillary supporter, but after some research into her background, Obama became my first choice. I respect her, but wish she would simply back out. She's hurting the party in general by staying in the race. The very notion of her continuing even though she has no chance of catching Obama in the delegate race, suggests to me a kind of snug elitism. As if she thinks she could sway the superdelegates dispite what voters have decided so far. If she were to do that, it could damage the faith many new Democratic voters have in the political process.
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    May 08, 2008 4:24 PM GMT
    Wysiwyg60 said

    Polls now are interesting, but not a great indicator of how things will turn out in November.

    It will be interesting to see how "dirty" the campaign will get between McCain and Obama. McCain does not seem to like negative ads and Obama tries to come across as a new type of politician. Maybe we will actually have a couple of candidates that have a sheen of common decency (although I am not holding my breath on that one).



    What McCain does is not really the problem. Don't expect this election to be nice, however, because 527s are going to come out full force with some really nasty attack ads this season. McCain's going to feign offense, but not really do a damn thing to stop right-wing 527s from slandering Obama with racist, Islamophobic remarks (you know they're going to try and convince people he's Muslim, because religious bigotry is alive and well in this country).
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    May 08, 2008 4:38 PM GMT
    Wysiwyg60 saidPolls now are interesting, but not a great indicator of how things will turn out in November.


    Oh ya, the dynamics of the race are completely different now than they will be in November. As polling in states like NC showed, the dynamics of a race can change dramatically over a weekend. But I think my statement holds, that without polling we have no reasonable metric to discern electability.