Why is it that dating is so difficult within gay culture?

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    Aug 29, 2011 3:45 AM GMT
    And i am not taking about the hypothetical bubble concept where guy meets guy, guys get coffee then end up back at guy's apartment for sex and biscuits where they never speak to each other again. I mean the real deal which involves dinner dates, with no express feeling for sex right away. Just leave your views, as i find this to be very puzzling especially since the fact that one would assume that long term relationships might be a goal within the gay dating dynamic. I am finding this difficult to understand as i have had personal experiences which kinda confused me about what i truly want.So feel free to drop your own opinions and please do not mention the issue of race as a factor as id hate to believe that can possible be a cause especially in this day and age.
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    Aug 29, 2011 4:08 AM GMT
    I don't know if it's a good idea to put sex deliberately on the back burner in this respect; we were very turned on by each other, although in different ways. Sex was huge and in the foreground; we both felt it and shared the excitement of it. There was also a huge emotional aspect to it; still is.

    I think you would enjoy a man that thrills at the idea of sex with you and lets you know it, and who also considers the emotional impact behind making love.

    -Doug


    PS it's out there, because if plain old we are here, there are undoubtedly others.




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    Aug 29, 2011 4:55 AM GMT
    tereseus1 saidWhy is it that dating is so difficult within gay culture?
    Because most men (regardless of sexual orientation) can't think past the head of their dick.
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    Aug 29, 2011 6:40 PM GMT
    tereseus1 saidSo feel free to drop your own opinions and please do not mention the issue of race as a factor as id hate to believe that can possible be a cause especially in this day and age.


    I can't drop my opinions if I cannot mention something that you feel is hard to believe.

    But fact is, regardless of what one may believe, and feel how far things have come along one cannot ignore it as if it does not exist. And you have to use that to your advantage.

    You have to remember that most of the gay scene is still very segregated. That's why I find my success with people who aren't in the gay lifestyle versus people who are are drastically different. They're not conformed into this, "all I see when I go out with my (fill in race) friends is other (fill in race) and I've also never dated a (fill in race) guy so not sure how my friends would feel about me dating a (fill in race) guy.

    When I used to hangout regularly with a group of gay friends of various races, I would hear it all the time about how they wouldn't date this or that guy because of race. Not even taking into consideration the variations that exist. I'm almost convinced that some gay guys will dismiss someone on race before anything else WHEN it comes to dating. Sex and friends and hanging out is different. But attempt to take it to the next level and they can't see beyond that.

    But with that fact that you're in NYC, you have more leverage than a lot of these southern and western states that still have Jim Crow mentality. Black clubs, Black nights, White clubs, Latin nights...all that segregation stuff in the gay community makes it hard to really connect with each other.

    Maybe someone can input something else, but I haven't really seen any clear-cut reason why dating would be so hard. That's just how I see it though. Another possible reason is most of us jump into sex too quickly. Like the overplayed idiom goes; why buy the whole cow when you can get the milk for free?

    Don't give it up for free. Make em pay for it!



  • vintovka

    Posts: 588

    Aug 29, 2011 6:49 PM GMT
    Well, about ten years ago I had to go to six weddings in one summer. Of those only one was a gay couple, they had been together for 19 years and are still together. Of the remainder I think about half are now divorced or on their way to divorce, so I don't think relationships in general are easy to sustain in modern society. I was scheduled to go to two weddings this summer and both were cancelled (both straight couples).

    We live in a society where everything has become commodified and/or transient, so it's not surprising to me that long term relationships are hard to develop and sustain, but I hardly think it's only a problem for the gay community--perhaps a bit more severe because "gay culture" is really just a code word for a purely distilled version of our wider commodified/consumerist/transient culture.
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    Aug 29, 2011 6:58 PM GMT
    tereseus1 saidJust leave your views, as i find this to be very puzzling especially since the fact that one would assume that long term relationships might be a goal within the gay dating dynamic.


    That is a mistaken assumption. I have found very few guys who are really interested in LTR, and of those that claim they are, only a portion of them really are (as opposed to thinking they want LTR but really just like the idea of it). A long term relationship takes a certain kind of personality, a certain kind of interest, certain kinds of values and a certain kind of courage. Other kinds of relationships can be just as fulfilling for the people who want that - extended friends with benefits works out for a range of people - but for those who are wired for relationships this is not going to work for long I don't think. And while the ideal of the LTR exists, it's not an ideal that gets aspired to with much vigor.
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    Aug 29, 2011 7:00 PM GMT
    vintovka saidbut I hardly think it's only a problem for the gay community--perhaps a bit more severe because "gay culture" is really just a code word for a purely distilled version of our wider commodified/consumerist/transient culture.


    Well that too and we also have less options as a whole.

    I mean, let's take a typical trip to the gym where I live. Out of the 25-35 guys that are there, what are the chances of them being gay, single, into guys that are in their early 20s, into guys that are 'exotic' (e.g. Black), and actually have the nerve to speak up?

    On any given day, that number is about 0. Now, if I was some White or Hispanic female (because where I live 99% of the people going to gyms in this town are White or Hispanic) with big titties and a fat ass walking into the gym...I'd probably have a different guy hitting on me everytime I walk up in the gym. I'd be batting them off like flies...but, eventually one of those guys may create dating potential Or if I was the same girl, but Black in a mostly Black gym...I'd have equal or better luck.

    But since that doesn't really ever happen...I have to resort to places where dating isn't even in the cards. Online, adam4adam, bars and nightclubs. So if it's not race that's a factor, it's numbers. It's all about numbers and when you're dealing with a limited base, it's just naturally harder to expand your options.
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    Aug 29, 2011 7:23 PM GMT
    This is a completely subjective topic. If you want that kind of relationship, there are other people out there who want the same thing, you just have to find them.

    If you just want a hook-up lifestyle, there are plenty out there to oblige you. There are all kinds of people in the world who want different things, and value relationships in different ways. This is transcendent of sexual orientation.


    Just ask yourself a couple questions:

    1- What do you want out of life?
    2- What is your idea of happiness when it comes to emotional connections with other people?
    3- Are you ready to settle down and be faithful to one person, or do want to keep partying?
    4- Are you emotionally mature enough to deal with a committed relationship?

    (Personal Experience): Finding the perfect man to settle down with isn't easy, but if you look hard enough, you will never find him. He will just show up when you least expect it, you just have to be ready for him. Learn to love yourself first and love from others will follow in kind.
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    Aug 29, 2011 7:25 PM GMT
    LVmotoJock saidThis is a completely subjective topic. If you want that kind of relationship, there are other people out there who want the same thing, you just have to find them.

    If you just want a hook-up lifestyle, there are plenty out there to oblige you. There are all kinds of people in the world who want different things, and value relationships in different ways. This is transcendent of sexual orientation.


    Just ask yourself a couple questions:

    1- What do you want out of life?
    2- What is your idea of happiness when it comes to emotional connections with other people?
    3- Are you ready to settle down and be faithful to one person, or do want to keep partying?
    4- Are you emotionally mature enough to deal with a committed relationship?

    (Personal Experience): Finding the perfect man to settle down with isn't easy, but if you look hard enough, you will never find him. He will just show up when you least expect it, you just have to be ready for him. Learn to love yourself first and love from others will follow in kind.


    This man may look like a young hottie, but Im quoting him because he is wise beyond his years.

    I will say this as well: Straight people bitch about dating ALL the time too. This isnt a gay phenomenon, but a human one.

    Ask yourself these questions too:
    1) how does your actions reflect what you want. Are you sleeping with guys and having casual sex when you want an emotional connection? Are you dating guys then breaking up right when you have sex because you are looking for nookie? Actions need to reflect your intentions.
    2) How do you interact with others? Are you stripping naked all the time? etc, etc.
    3) Do you like a guy for his body or for his mind? Both?

    Just some food for though, but LVmotoJock rules! He is the man!
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    Aug 29, 2011 7:56 PM GMT
    Every time I look at a guy profile, they are 'seeking masculine muscular men whom they can enjoy fitness and play with'

    I'll even compliment on their pic or two and even a message to some profile which hold my interest.Then I move on. (they mostly do not reply)

    I understand I do not fit the jock block mold. I know I am not 'super competitive in sports' I know I may not be enthusiastic to the need of going out doors constantly. I know that get a lil over excited with close friend because I adore them so.

    Also I was told recently that executive men type won't even go for me.icon_neutral.gif
    Nor would a varsity player because they are going for the older 'daddies' icon_confused.gif


    So who am I suppose to date then?The bookish nerd? Yea he's cute but I can't hold his hand every time he starts to panic or becomes recluse. (I'm just generalizing so please no offense to anyone)

    I know I have a lot to offer, but if the dating game with men is that hard..I would rather go out with a woman....but I do not want that...


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    Aug 29, 2011 8:05 PM GMT
    Fivealive saidEvery time I look at a guy profile, they are 'seeking masculine muscular men whom they can enjoy fitness and play with'

    I'll even compliment on their pic or two and even a message to some profile which hold my interest.Then I move on. (they mostly do not reply)

    I understand I do not fit the jock block mold. I know I am not 'super competitive in sports' I know I may not be enthusiastic to the need of going out doors constantly. I know that get a lil over excited with close friend because I adore them so.

    Also I was told recently that executive men type won't even go for me.icon_neutral.gif
    Nor would a varsity player because they are going for the older 'daddies' icon_confused.gif


    So who am I suppose to date then?The bookish nerd? Yea he's cute but I can't hold his hand every time he starts to panic or becomes recluse. (I'm just generalizing so please no offense to anyone)

    I know I have a lot to offer, but if the dating game with men is that hard..I would rather go out with a woman....but I do not want that...




    I wouldnt date off of RJ, RJ is strictly for flaming forums, eye candy, and leaving creepy comments/testimonials to men I will never meet.

    Dont date on Grindr, Grindr is good for getting your rocks off.

    Go out in the real world and meet real guys and date. Sexy comes off of people IRL very differently than in the real world.

    I get much more attention out in the streets of SF than I do sitting here on RJ. But that is because I look like Im 2 and gay men are all pedos.

    Just saying!
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    Aug 29, 2011 8:25 PM GMT
    Larkin_PLR said
    tereseus1 saidJust leave your views, as i find this to be very puzzling especially since the fact that one would assume that long term relationships might be a goal within the gay dating dynamic.


    That is a mistaken assumption. I have found very few guys who are really interested in LTR, and of those that claim they are, only a portion of them really are (as opposed to thinking they want LTR but really just like the idea of it). A long term relationship takes a certain kind of personality, a certain kind of interest, certain kinds of values and a certain kind of courage. Other kinds of relationships can be just as fulfilling for the people who want that - extended friends with benefits works out for a range of people - but for those who are wired for relationships this is not going to work for long I don't think. And while the ideal of the LTR exists, it's not an ideal that gets aspired to with much vigor.



    Word.
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    Aug 29, 2011 8:33 PM GMT
    I think you're overthinking it. Sexual attraction is key to most -- not all -- relationships, whether gay or str8. It enables intimacy, which can happen without sex. And sex enhances intimacy, regardless. And sex doesn't have to include intercourse or oral every time it happens. But to deny it, or try to overlook it is unrealistic. Dinner dates, phone calls, txt msgs, etc. will all -- eventually -- lead to an opportunity to kick the tires. If there's chemistry, great. If not, perhaps a friendship will follow.
  • Scriven

    Posts: 61

    Aug 29, 2011 10:40 PM GMT
    Part of it may be where and how you're looking. If you're looking on hookup websites, cruise spots and bars then you're going to find guys who just want to fuck you and leave. Fortunately, there is a gay community outside of bars.

    If you're looking to meet people in a more casual, less sexually charged way maybe you should change what you're looking for. In Atlanta, and I'm sure in most big cities, there is a gay "Socialite" scene for lack of a better word. I'm fairly well connected in Atlanta and if you really want to break into that scene you need to volunteer/join a board of one of the many, many fundraisers in town, attend AGLC or AEN events. In New Orleans its joining a Krew. There are always gay organizations looking for volunteers and board members.

    If you are looking for a lengthy courtship and a stable relationship you have to go to places where people are looking for that sort of thing. You can't go to the sex club, stick your ass up in the air, and then complain that no one wants to hang around to cuddle later.

  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    Aug 29, 2011 11:04 PM GMT
    There are a lot of ways to meet guys, but when you're only 5-10% of the population you don't have as many options as straight people do. Then you cut that number down even more because of guys who are married, etc. because they're afraid to come out and your numbers drop even more.
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    Aug 29, 2011 11:09 PM GMT
    Simurgh said
    I wouldnt date off of RJ, RJ is strictly for flaming forums, eye candy, and leaving creepy comments/testimonials to men I will never meet.

    Dont date on Grindr, Grindr is good for getting your rocks off.

    Go out in the real world and meet real guys and date. Sexy comes off of people IRL very differently than in the real world.

    I get much more attention out in the streets of SF than I do sitting here on RJ. But that is because I look like Im 2 and gay men are all pedos.

    Just saying!


    Actually this had nothing to do with RJ site although I realize that it would be that obviously so.
    I've encountered this on another dating site

    But yes once I am back in Toronto I'll have to re experience the dating game....
  • jimi_b

    Posts: 69

    Aug 29, 2011 11:11 PM GMT
    To be honest, I will probably never have a one night stand. Call me old fashioned, but I have to really like a guy before I get that intimate with him.
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Aug 29, 2011 11:36 PM GMT
    You gotta be more descriptive.
    Dating's complicated period. People, and their myriad damage accumulated over years of living are complicated. Which part are you having trouble with and which part do you think is gay(-culture?) associated?
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Aug 29, 2011 11:42 PM GMT
    Simurgh saidI wouldnt date off of RJ, RJ is strictly for flaming forums, eye candy, and leaving creepy comments/testimonials to men I will never meet.

    Dont date on Grindr, Grindr is good for getting your rocks off.

    Go out in the real world and meet real guys and date. Sexy comes off of people IRL very differently than in the real world.

    I get much more attention out in the streets of SF than I do sitting here on RJ. But that is because I look like Im 2 and gay men are all pedos.

    Just saying!


    I've met and dated amazing men that have been are huge parts of my life, men that I met online (OkCupid and Manhunt mostly, but not exclusively). The idea that the mysterious "online" is a poor way to meet people is ridiculous IMO. It's been for me, and others, and incredible way to meet incredible people -- and people I'd have been unlikely to meet or simply hadn't met otherwise.
    Dating is experimenting -- which involves a lot of "failure" if you're just trying to find "Mr. Right". It's an incredible experience, if sometimes painful, if your goal is to meet and understand people and try to grow from and with the experiences. Online dating is just a way of finding people to do that with from a larger pool, with fewer limits essentially.
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    Aug 29, 2011 11:45 PM GMT
    To be fair, if the sex is good (or bad), it does sometimes factor on whether or not I want to pursue this person and keep them all to myself. If the sex is great, then nobody else should experience but me because I'm selfish (i.e., yes, I want him to be my man), but if the sex is bad, then I'll probably never talk to him again (i.e., no, I don't want him to be my man). See how it works.? icon_lol.gif

  • Aug 29, 2011 11:50 PM GMT
    I am young so I hope that this will change over the next century. I think that honestly being "out" is still a new concept to society. Homosexuality has been around since the Roman times, men in bathhouses having sex with each other icon_lol.gifI have also watched some documentary and they said that in some cultures it was even looked at as a good thing to sleep with other men, if they were of a higher stautes. The problem with being "out" is now most gays are confused i feel. Men are sexual beings mostly due to our chemical levels. Our sex drive can be crazy icon_eek.gif So as you look through history you see bathhouses, glory holes, etc for men to get there sexual "fix", then most men returned to their wives or where single. Only recently (meaning over the last 50 years) have we seen men wanting to settle down with other men. When I was younger I was under the impression that all men wanted to find love, and I would get a boyfriend and be married at 23! Then I started to go clubbing and met older guys in there 30's or higher who had lived a lie and divorced there wife’s and were "out" now. I have only met one out of countless boyfriends that are looking for "love" truly. I just think it’s a harder emotion for men to tap into, and combined with this whole being "out" concept so fairly new I just think it’s going to take some time.icon_cry.gif I won’t put a age on when I want to find love because part of not knowing is the fun, so hang tight and you will find the right guy eventually!
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    Aug 29, 2011 11:55 PM GMT
    Can't say I have a lot of experience here, but one of the first guys I went out with told me his friends were surprised when they saw my picture cause I am latin. It seems he only dates white guys. Didn't realize I wasn't white. Am surprise to hear this my not be an isolated deal.
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    Aug 29, 2011 11:55 PM GMT
    neosyllogy said
    Simurgh saidI wouldnt date off of RJ, RJ is strictly for flaming forums, eye candy, and leaving creepy comments/testimonials to men I will never meet.

    Dont date on Grindr, Grindr is good for getting your rocks off.

    Go out in the real world and meet real guys and date. Sexy comes off of people IRL very differently than in the real world.

    I get much more attention out in the streets of SF than I do sitting here on RJ. But that is because I look like Im 2 and gay men are all pedos.

    Just saying!


    I've met and dated amazing men that have been are huge parts of my life, men that I met online (OkCupid and Manhunt mostly, but not exclusively). The idea that the mysterious "online" is a poor way to meet people is ridiculous IMO. It's been for me, and others, and incredible way to meet incredible people -- and people I'd have been unlikely to meet or simply hadn't met otherwise.
    Dating is experimenting -- which involves a lot of "failure" if you're just trying to find "Mr. Right". It's an incredible experience, if sometimes painful, if your goal is to meet and understand people and try to grow from and with the experiences. Online dating is just a way of finding people to do that with from a larger pool, with fewer limits essentially.


    That I think is the issue with online dating. Since the pool is so damn large, its always a problem of "well I can do better than that person" without realizing that the person may be the best they can get.

    It also becomes like shopping, people just look for others that they want in a person without regard to them as an individual or even as a human being.
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    Aug 29, 2011 11:57 PM GMT
    Well. . . so many guys seem so depressed, they don't have the energy required to invest in a relationship, even a casual one. Instead, they just simply close themselves off.



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    Aug 30, 2011 12:03 AM GMT
    Well gay guys in Cape Town are massive SNOBS and fucking cliquey!