If you call a black man a

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    Sep 01, 2011 3:48 AM GMT
    "nigger" to his face, will he stand up and fight, or will he get depressed and pout?
    No need to answer. I pretty sure just typing that word already made about half the readers here fighting mad (and yes, you guys have my apology - just needed to prove a point).

    For years, gays have been called faggot, queer, ass-raper, poofter, queen, and a whole host of other inflammatory words.

    Question: When the FUCK are you goddamn pussies gonna start FIGHTING for your rights?!? I've already kicked a few guys' asses, shot at some, and will continue to be militant until my rights are achieved. It's the fucking pussy-ass pansies who sit back and "wish" for rights that are holding us back. Fucking FIGHT, you fucking limp-wristed rainbow-wearing unicorn-fucking bitches!

    Ok, rant over.

    Discuss. icon_biggrin.gif
  • creature

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    Sep 01, 2011 4:03 AM GMT
    But does the "n" word actually make half the black guys on here fighting mad? Fighting someone for using a slur isn't going to change their bigotry. It could make them think twice about getting into a scuffle with you, but they are still going to be bigots. I, frankly, don't think that's a fight worth fighting for. I'd rather be involved in something more meaningful to change their ignorance.

    Secondly,the use of "queer," "faggot," and such does not actually impede on your rights. If you want to look at a good example of how to get things done, look at the Civil Rights movement. Plenty of hate speech, water hosing, dog attacks, church bombing, cross burning, but rights were won not by replicating the actions of the attackers, but by rising above them.

    I'm not suggesting that you don't defend yourself against physical attacks, but there's a whole lot more. And these rights are already being fought for by pressing for gay-friendly legislation.
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    Sep 01, 2011 4:13 AM GMT
    creature saidBut does the "n" word actually make half the black guys on here fighting mad? Fighting someone for using a slur isn't going to change their bigotry. It could make them think twice about getting into a scuffle with you, but they are still going to be bigots. I, frankly, don't think that's a fight worth fighting for. I'd rather be involved in something more meaningful to change their ignorance.

    Secondly,the use of "queer," "faggot," and such does not actually impede on your rights. If you want to look at a good example of how to get things done, look at the Civil Rights. Plenty of hate speech, water hosing, dog attacks, church bombing, cross burning, but rights were won not by replicating the actions of the attackers, but by rising above them.

    I'm not suggesting that you don't defend yourself against physical attacks, but there's a whole lot more. And these rights are already being fought for by pressing for gay-friendly legislation.
    *woosh* You missed the point - it went right over your head.

    Let me introduce you to the wars our soldiers have fought in the past that gained this country's freedom...or what's left of it.
    Revolutionary war, Civil war, WWI, and WWII

    Now let me introduce you to the internal "wars" that abolished slavery and gained rights for blacks and women. They were not "official" wars, but they both involved lots of bloodshed and violence.

    NONE of these rights would have been won without bloodshed and violence. It's unfortunate, and I aspire to be as peaceful as possible. But if you open you eyes, you'll see what few rights gays have attained have been put into place by a select few straight people who feel sorry for us - not because we fought for them. If we would stop parading in the streets with rainbows, unicorns, and pole dancers in bikinis - and start fighting like the men we profess to be - the maybe, just maybe, we'd get equal rights.

    Until then, society will view us a weak limp-wristed pansies they can run over and degrade without any repercussion.
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    Sep 01, 2011 4:18 AM GMT
    I recall being a teen, and having moments when the word poofter at times would make me shrink, albeit I had been standing to the right to be a poofter since I was five and felt no shame. But then as I got older and my balls grew some more. I took controle of the word poofter, and owned it. It never ever makes me shrink, for feeling less a person. I am equal and own it, use it, as I do fag.

    Yes I am a poofter, and a fag. But my sexuality does not define me either, as I am not a victom. I was also born a white blond True Blue Aussie male too, and not just a poofter; albeit I am one; and proud of it too.

    I can also look down my nose at all the misery breeder breed too!

    I love the word poofter, but then I own it too.
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    Sep 01, 2011 4:24 AM GMT
    pattison saidI recall being a teen, and having moments when the word poofter at times would make me shrink, albeit I had been standing to the right to be a poofter since I was five and felt no shame. But then as I got older and my balls grew some more. I took controle of the word poofter, and owned it. It never ever makes me shrink, for feeling less a person. I am equal and own it, use it, as I do fag.

    Yes I am a poofter, and a fag. But my sexuality does not define me either, as I am not a victom. I was also born a white blond True Blue Aussie male too, and not just a poofter; albeit I am one; and proud of it too.

    I can also look down my nose at all the misery breeder breed too!

    I love the word poofter, but then I own it too.
    And I call myself a fag, faggot, queer, queen, poofter, ladyboy, and all other words used to describe homosexuals...and I own them.

    But when someone uses them against me in a derogatory way, I have no fear confronting them with the promise of physical violence to prove I'm not the pansy they think I am.
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    Sep 01, 2011 4:29 AM GMT
    Paul said, "NONE of these rights would have been won without bloodshed and violence."

    Well, that had a lot to do with society and civilization at the time, we'd hope it would be a little easier in the 21st century, society having already been through (and hopefully learned from) that bloodshed and violence in regards to rights (we're referring to North America).



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    Sep 01, 2011 4:31 AM GMT
    The Revolutionary War is the only war fought to gain our freedom, unless you were a slave and fought in the Civil War on the promise of gaining freedom.

    There may have been bloodshed leading up to the bestowment of rights, but I'm quite positive in regards to women's right to vote, the freedom of slaves, and the Civil Rights Act, those violent incidents were not the direct cause of getting those rights. It had more to do with political pressure.
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    Sep 01, 2011 4:35 AM GMT
    meninlove said Paul said, "NONE of these rights would have been won without bloodshed and violence."

    Well, that had a lot to do with society and civilization at the time, we'd hope it would be a little easier in the 21st century, society having already been through (and hopefully learned from) that bloodshed and violence in regards to rights (we're referring to North America).

    creature saidThe Revolutionary War is the only war fought to gain our freedom, unless you were a slave and fought in the Civil War on the promise of gaining freedom.

    There may have been bloodshed leading up to the bestowment of rights, but I'm quite positive in regards to women's right to vote, the freedom of slaves, and the Civil Rights Act, those violent incidents were not the direct cause of getting those rights. It had more to do with political pressure.
    Both of these comments were made on the assumption that violence is no longer needed to achieve our goal, with is equal rights.

    However, the #1 reason we still don't have equal rights is the stereotype that "faggots are pussies, and don't need rights because of that."

    Yeah, it's based on an ancient religious hatred toward women, which they still think we are. That's why I believe that until we fight like men, they'll continue to associate us with the women they hate, and continue to deny us our rights.
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    Sep 01, 2011 4:37 AM GMT
    I don't see how that behavior is going to change anything. It might make you feel better, but it doesn't actually change any opinions or right any wrongs.

    Do you think that if every gay person resorts to physical violence that we will somehow gain respect and be seen as a legitimate force in society? Can you think of any group of violent people that are accepted in our society? Do you really want homosexuality to be on par with organized crime, biker gangs and street gangs?

    If we chose to go against the norms of society to achieve our goals, we would not have anyone on our side and certainly no political allies to further legislation to protect us. I'm out for the rights of generations, not just to look tough.

    Nonviolence means avoiding not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Sep 01, 2011 4:40 AM GMT
    adam228 saidI don't see how that behavior is going to change anything. It might make you feel better, but it doesn't actually change any opinions or right any wrongs.

    Do you think that if every gay person resorts to physical violence that we will somehow gain respect and be seen as a legitimate force in society?

    If we chose to go against the norms of society to achieve our goals, we would not have anyone on our side and certainly no political allies to further legislation to protect us.

    Nonviolence means avoiding not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Read what I wrote above you. Most bigots also hate women (though they would never admit it). And they associate us with women.
    If we don't fight like men, they will continue to think we're women.
    I'm 100% respected at work, and ONLY because I threatened (with absolute positiveness) that I would kill them with my bare hands.
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    Sep 01, 2011 4:48 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    meninlove said Paul said, "NONE of these rights would have been won without bloodshed and violence."

    Well, that had a lot to do with society and civilization at the time, we'd hope it would be a little easier in the 21st century, society having already been through (and hopefully learned from) that bloodshed and violence in regards to rights (we're referring to North America).

    creature saidThe Revolutionary War is the only war fought to gain our freedom, unless you were a slave and fought in the Civil War on the promise of gaining freedom.

    There may have been bloodshed leading up to the bestowment of rights, but I'm quite positive in regards to women's right to vote, the freedom of slaves, and the Civil Rights Act, those violent incidents were not the direct cause of getting those rights. It had more to do with political pressure.
    Both of these comments were made on the assumption that violence is no longer needed to achieve our goal, with is equal rights.

    However, the #1 reason we still don't have equal rights is the stereotype that "faggots are pussies, and don't need rights because of that."

    Yeah, it's based on an ancient religious hatred toward women, which they still think we are. That's why I believe that until we fight like men, they'll continue to associate us with the women they hate, and continue to deny us our rights.


    I think it has less to do with the idea that gays act like "pussies," and more to do with religious indoctrination and people who think homosexuality is unnatural and is a choice.

    It's one thing to defend yourself like the patrons of Stonewall, which is understandable. But violence is not how gay marriage has become law in several states and DC. Where was the violence that made same-sex marriage legal in New York?
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    Sep 01, 2011 4:55 AM GMT
    creature saidYeah, it's based on an ancient religious hatred toward women, which they still think we are. That's why I believe that until we fight like men, they'll continue to associate us with the women they hate, and continue to deny us our rights.

    I think it has less to do with the idea that gays act like "pussies," and more to do with religious indoctrination and people who think homosexuality is unnatural and is a choice.

    It's one thing to defend yourself like the patrons of Stonewall, which is understandable. But violence is not how gay marriage has become law in several states and DC. Where was the violence that made same-sex marriage legal in New York?
    Re-read what I wrote VERY carefully (and read between the lines - almost a lost art). It's the straight people who felt pity for us that voted in the marriage rights.

    Most people who use religion to back their hatred toward gays only do so because they're too much of a pussy to admit they only hate us because they think we're pussies. If you act like a "man" (aka, not afraid of physical violence to prove your point) then they're much more likely to admit they're not really religious, and accept you as you are.

    In other words, you're basically giving them a bluff, and asking them to call your bluff. Just don't be afraid to call their bluff when they call yours. icon_wink.gif
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    Sep 01, 2011 5:10 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    creature saidYeah, it's based on an ancient religious hatred toward women, which they still think we are. That's why I believe that until we fight like men, they'll continue to associate us with the women they hate, and continue to deny us our rights.

    I think it has less to do with the idea that gays act like "pussies," and more to do with religious indoctrination and people who think homosexuality is unnatural and is a choice.

    It's one thing to defend yourself like the patrons of Stonewall, which is understandable. But violence is not how gay marriage has become law in several states and DC. Where was the violence that made same-sex marriage legal in New York?
    Re-read what I wrote VERY carefully (and read between the lines - almost a lost art). It's the straight people who felt pity for us that voted in the marriage rights.

    Most people who use religion to back their hatred toward gays only do so because they're too much of a pussy to admit they only hate us because they think we're pussies. If you act like a "man" (aka, not afraid of physical violence to prove your point) then they're much more likely to admit they're not really religious, and accept you as you are.

    In other words, you're basically giving them a bluff, and asking them to call your bluff. Just don't be afraid to call their bluff when they call yours. icon_wink.gif


    Do you really think the votes for the allowance of same-sex marriage only came about because of pity? I think it had more to do with people who believed in the constitution to to see that we are all treated equally under the law. Not because they view gays as poor, lowly people who just can't catch a break and desperately need a bone thrown at them.

    And I hate to bring up something personal, but you said yourself that your mom continues to look down at your lifestyle. I'm sure she has witnessed you acting as a tough guy. So how come that hasn't changed her attitude about homosexuality?
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    Sep 01, 2011 5:21 AM GMT
    creature saidDo you really think the votes for the allowance of same-sex marriage only came about because of pity?
    Yes, I do. They realize we are a minority, and know that if only gays vote for gay rights, that's statistically only 10% of the ballot vote.

    creature said
    paulflexes said...
    Most people who use religion to back their hatred toward gays only do so because they're too much of a pussy to admit they only hate us because they think we're pussies. If you act like a "man" (aka, not afraid of physical violence to prove your point) then they're much more likely to admit they're not really religious, and accept you as you are.
    ...
    And I hate to bring up something personal, but you said yourself that your mom continues to look down at your lifestyle. I'm sure she has witnessed you acting as a tough guy. So how come that hasn't changed her attitude about homosexuality?
    Because of that paragraph. She DOES believe in religion.
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    Sep 01, 2011 5:23 AM GMT
    BTW, I just had a MAJOR de ja vu with that last post. icon_eek.gif
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    Sep 01, 2011 5:51 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    creature saidDo you really think the votes for the allowance of same-sex marriage only came about because of pity?
    Yes, I do. They realize we are a minority, and know that if only gays vote for gay rights, that's statistically only 10% of the ballot vote.

    creature said
    paulflexes said...
    Most people who use religion to back their hatred toward gays only do so because they're too much of a pussy to admit they only hate us because they think we're pussies. If you act like a "man" (aka, not afraid of physical violence to prove your point) then they're much more likely to admit they're not really religious, and accept you as you are.
    ...
    And I hate to bring up something personal, but you said yourself that your mom continues to look down at your lifestyle. I'm sure she has witnessed you acting as a tough guy. So how come that hasn't changed her attitude about homosexuality?
    Because of that paragraph. She DOES believe in religion.


    Well I think you're not giving straights enough credit. I don't think they're worried about gays being outnumbered when it comes to voting. I believe, for the most part, the votes are coming from what they think is right, not because of pity or guilt.

    Re: Your mom, so it's exactly what I said, it's religious-based. Not because she sees you as a "pussy" since it's obvious you have been tough with her. Your mom is just one of the many who don't need to see a tough act because they're basing their judgment on their religious interpretation.

    Also, you left out lesbians icon_biggrin.gif How exactly are lesbians supposed to win over the bigots? If you think the answer for the gay man is to get involved in violence, what is a lesbian to do? And to prove what?
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    Sep 01, 2011 5:54 AM GMT
    Prise god that you do not call Uganda/Africa, Russia, Turkey, and such places home; then you would truly have something to be petulant about.

    As you, I can be who I want to be and most people don't give a rats arse, how we have progressed, to when I first started to fight, homosexuality was classed as a mental illness, so you could be kicked out of the police force, army and so on, we beat that down. it was also illegal, and I was too fight to have that decriminalised, and we won that to.

    I can live a good life in a free country as an Aussie poofter, and thats great. My husband and I live freely and safely, and sleep soundly at night; all is good, and we can travel all around America and sleep in the same bed too.

    I no complain.
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    Sep 01, 2011 5:55 AM GMT
    Idle words neither own me nor control me.

    Call me a faggot or whatever, I will simply lose whatever respect I might have had for the speaker.

    I might even raise an eyebrow and express my displeasure at the speaker.

    But I am not going to resort to violence over mere words.

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    Sep 01, 2011 6:37 AM GMT
    pattison saidPrise god that you do not call Uganda/Africa, Russia, Turkey, and such places home; then you would truly have something to be petulant about.

    As you, I can be who I want to be and most people don't give a rats arse, how we have progressed, to when I first started to fight, homosexuality was classed as a mental illness, so you could be kicked out of the police force, army and so on, we beat that down. it was also illegal, and I was too fight to have that decriminalised, and we won that to.

    I can live a good life in a free country as an Aussie poofter, and thats great. My husband and I live freely and safely, and sleep soundly at night; all is good, and we can travel all around America and sleep in the same bed too.

    I no complain.
    Too bad your English is almost as bad as 80% of the folks in Miami. icon_lol.gif
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    Sep 01, 2011 7:01 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidThey tend to not bother me. They're just words.

    Look back to the 70's when the "n" word was used liberally on television:
    OMG come on, bro. You're not that stupid. I know you're not.
    Read the rest of the thread. It has absolutely nothing to do with blacks. That was just an example.
    You're one of my fav's on RJ. Please do this for me. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 01, 2011 7:41 AM GMT
    theantijock saidWars are fought on many fronts.

    CivilRightsMemorial.jpg

    1933-1945

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Holocaust

    1954-1968

    http://www.splcenter.org/civil-rights-memorial/civil-rights-martyrs

    1970-2011

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States

    1988-2010

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people

    1998

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard
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    Sep 01, 2011 8:17 AM GMT
    alphatrigger saidIdle words neither own me nor control me.

    Call me a faggot or whatever, I will simply lose whatever respect I might have had for the speaker.

    I might even raise an eyebrow and express my displeasure at the speaker.

    But I am not going to resort to violence over mere words.



    Good on you mate. I was violated from such a young age, but I never hit back. I just stood my ground, and refused to back down. I got to see my pa die in a lot of pain from cancer, so in the long run he got his, as did some of my moms brothers.
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    Sep 01, 2011 8:24 AM GMT
    alphatrigger saidIdle words neither own me nor control me.

    Call me a faggot or whatever, I will simply lose whatever respect I might have had for the speaker.

    I might even raise an eyebrow and express my displeasure at the speaker.

    But I am not going to resort to violence over mere words.

    What if they use the words as a factor to determine your ability to fight back?

    What if - after saying those words and you back down - they decide that you're not worth defending, and reverse all current rights you have, resulting in eventual re-criminalization of homosexuality?

    Would you fight BEFORE they do that? Or would you wait till they come to your door to arrest you for new laws imposed against us?
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    Sep 01, 2011 9:17 AM GMT
    Uh... I wouldn't deem it necessary to wage war over that. Chances are, "getting in the head" of the person you want to fight, will merit more of a winning and lasting effect... The kind that changes behavior and doesn't fuel hate.

    That is my experience as both a " N***** " and a " f** " icon_wink.gif
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    Sep 01, 2011 9:25 AM GMT
    Jay0416 saidUh... I wouldn't deem it necessary to wage war over that. Chances are, "getting in the head" of the person you want to fight, will merit more of a winning and lasting effect... The kind that changes behavior and doesn't fuel hate.

    That is my experience as both a " N***** " and a " f** " icon_wink.gif
    I've been out of the closet for 20 years, and just disowned my mother this week because she just can't learn - no matter how nice I am - that "faggots" and "niggers" are real people who deserve respect (yes, she's bigoted on both counts - rural Arkansas - go figure...)

    Getting into the heads of those who are brainwashed is a fantasy, just as much as religion is. It will not happen!

    All you can do is shut them up. You cannot change the way they believe.

    PS. The word "believe" negates any change of negotiation. Once a belief is set (and my mom is 75 years old) there is no changing it.