Sep 02, 2011 3:19 PM GMT
Le sigh
0 jobs
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Sep 02, 2011 3:19 PM GMT -
Sep 02, 2011 9:05 PM GMTLe 'Bama -
Sep 02, 2011 10:29 PM GMTThis is really too bad for the US, and I don't think the President, Congress, or economic experts know what to do. Obama's so-called jobs plan could help a little, but I wonder if the Feds can do much of anything. We have no money to throw at it, unless we just go in deeper. I'm afraid this is the new normal. The lack of jobs is multifaceted:
Baby boomers working longer, rather than retiring.
Women in the work force has long been the norm for couples.
More immigrants, legal/or illegal gobbling up the lower paying jobs.
Construction industry is flat due to the overbuilding during the 90's and early 2000's.
Exporting jobs overseas is still happening, and not just manufacturing.
More cuts in government programs and jobs.
Less recruiting in the military.
More H1B visas granted for the high tech jobs (more imported workers)
I'm sure you can add to the list. Whether it is Republican or Democrat ticket in 2012, I don't think either will be able to solve this. -
Sep 02, 2011 11:57 PM GMTEPA and NLRB are prime examples of regulatory excess. As soon as Obama is gone, and changes are in place in both these organizations, business will improve. In fact, if the projections which are indicating more and more his defeat in 2012 come to fruition, the day after his defeat you will start seeing businesses large and small start making plans for a more optimistic future. -
Sep 03, 2011 1:54 AM GMTSoCal and SB, you are both completely leaving out that it takes DEMAND, orders for goods and services for a corp. or small business to expand and hire for the purpose of making products to sell. short of the masses having money to spend which creates orders for goods and services it doesn't matter who is president, the unemployment problem will not improve without demand.
That's why government spending on infrastructure on a large scale can tip the balance and get the ball rolling. Financing these projects can work just like it does when congress approves huge contracts for military equip. A contractor (corp. supplier) is given a contract, they hire people to make the new product, the corp. goes to the bank with the start up check from the government, the bank gives them the money, which is printed by the feds. If the Gov. can do this for military contractors and massive military construction projects and the Gov. can do it for the Banks, then they can do it for the masses through large infrastructure projects. Money is made/printed this way everyday so the Gov. can now do it for the main street masses to get the economy moving again.
If anyone doubts that money is created this way look it up, don't take my word for it, I may have put in laymens language, that is the jist of it.
As a side note, I do agree with Ron Paul on this, It shouldn't be a privately owned, privately benefited Federal Reserve Bank making money this way and profitting from it. it should be done by the government, which will benefit and save the taxpayers money. -
Sep 03, 2011 2:57 AM GMTsouthbeach1500 said
realifedad said SoCal and SB, you are both completely leaving out that it takes DEMAND, ...
The topic of this thread is that zero jobs were created last month in a nation of over 300 million people.
What I've put forth (and socal reinforced) is that there won't be any meaningful pickup in the pace of job growth until the Obama administration is gone.
That's the point.
Well I think the point is more lack of demand than Obama, Obama being gone will not increase demand. without demand we could end up stuck in a 0 jobs growth scenerio. The only way demand will increase is when the masses have money in their hands to buy goods and services which in turn creat demand. you guys keep putting the cart before the horse. the cart being demand, the horse being the masses having money to spend to bring along demand.
Something has to break this cycle, if government doesn't do it through infrastructure spending to get past this stuck economy, what will do it ? Corps and businesses are not going to invest to increase goods and services without demand. This is why even Conservative leaning economists are suggesting infrastructure spending. Something massive has to be done or we will remain stuck. -
Sep 03, 2011 2:58 AM GMTMore than the heavily partisan squabbling a lot of yall are engaging in, I think this guy's views on the current state of the economy and job creation are simple and refreshing:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-15-2011/ali-velshi
I'm not saying what he advocates would ever be implemented, but he's 100% correct in that people are not trained for the jobs that are currently in demand.
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Sep 03, 2011 2:26 PM GMTNot to mention, there's been 0, zilch, squat, nada from the Congressional Republicans still about "jobs" -- or have I missed that? Hasn't it been almost a year by now?
Conservative/Republican comments are often "the government doesn't create jobs" - so then how to blame the President himself (whoever that might be) for no job creation? (Maybe the CCC idea will be timely again now with the recent natural disasters havoc and infrastructure/rebuilding needs so obvious.....)
Or "get government out of the way" -- and everything will be rosy (for the corporations, at least - but then they've outsourced all the jobs they can by now and still looking to shift more overseas, I'm sure).....but still nothing from the Republicans/conservatives in Congress on jobs, the economy, etc. Just heels dug in, refuse to compromise in significant ways, arms crossed, determined to get rid of Obama and everything will be hunky-dory. -
Sep 03, 2011 2:33 PM GMTMenergy_1 saidNot to mention, there's been 0, zilch, squat, nada from the Congressional Republicans still about "jobs" -- or have I missed that? Hasn't it been almost a year by now?
Conservative/Republican comments are often "the government doesn't create jobs" - so then how to blame the President himself (whoever that might be) for no job creation? (Maybe the CCC idea will be timely again now with the recent natural disasters havoc and infrastructure/rebuilding needs so obvious.....)
Or "get government out of the way" -- and everything will be rosy (for the corporations, at least - but then they've outsourced all the jobs they can by now and still looking to shift more overseas, I'm sure).....but still nothing from the Republicans/conservatives in Congress on jobs, the economy, etc. Just heels dug in, refuse to compromise in significant ways, arms crossed, determined to get rid of Obama and everything will be hunky-dory.
Re-read the messages above. Private sector jobs are what is needed. The Government does not create them, but the Government can, and actively is inhibiting their creation. That is why Obama is being blamed. You can read more and get a better understanding of this if you google such terms as job growth, EPA, NLRB, Obama. -
Sep 03, 2011 3:04 PM GMTwell,where are the proposed bills from the R side to eliminate the "roadblocks" -- I only see coverage of the social restructuring efforts, nothing to do with the budget, defense, deficits, jobs -- except to reduce the social programs without providing some ways to actually get people employed. EPA standards have been blamed for a long time (and created by Nixon, too) - seems that is a tired excuse and also what a lot of US citizens want to keep around to provide environmental protections. The NLRB - I don't see the direct effect except it keeps some oversight on particular business/corporate practices/employee protections and rights. -
Sep 03, 2011 3:23 PM GMTMenergy_1 saidwell,where are the proposed bills from the R side to eliminate the "roadblocks" -- I only see coverage of the social restructuring efforts, nothing to do with the budget, defense, deficits, jobs -- except to reduce the social programs without providing some ways to actually get people employed. EPA standards have been blamed for a long time (and created by Nixon, too) - seems that is a tired excuse and also what a lot of US citizens want to keep around to provide environmental protections. The NLRB - I don't see the direct effect except it keeps some oversight on particular business/corporate practices/employee protections and rights.
The roadblocks are being imposed by agencies within the Executive branch. While it is conceivable that Congress could pass laws to limit such actions by the agencies, it would generally be bad policy to do so by creating legislative oversight in details that shouldn't be necessary, i.e. legislative overreach into the executive branch. As far as the NLRB and its current impact goes, you can get a better idea of the direct negative effect it is having by doing some research as I suggested above. -
Sep 03, 2011 4:01 PM GMTWhy is it that when I and others stress the problem of lack of demand behind loss of jobs and lack of business investment/hiring, we seem to be met with silence ?
Is it that its too simple and obvious an answer that ruins the talking point that its 'Obama's' fault ?
Regulations and all other problems aside, there will not be an improvement in business investment and hiring until the demand for goods and services increases. Its really quite simple and it is a fact of business/corporation existence, no demand for a product or service equals no investment or hiring to make such products or provide such services. Even if all regulations disappeared, where there is no demand, there will be no investment or increase in employment. So why is this fact being ignored here? -
Sep 03, 2011 4:41 PM GMTsouthbeach1500 said
realifedad said Why is it that when I and others stress the problem of lack of demand behind loss of jobs and lack of business investment/hiring, we seem to be met with silence ?
Is it that its too simple and obvious an answer that ruins the talking point that its 'Obama's' fault ?
Regulations and all other problems aside, there will not be an improvement in business investment and hiring until the demand for goods and services increases. Its really quite simple and it is a fact of business/corporation existence, no demand for a product or service equals no investment or hiring to make such products or provide such services. Even if all regulations disappeared, where there is no demand, there will be no investment or increase in employment. So why is this fact being ignored here?
Because it is not relevant to the current situation.
Obama - and he has said it - is on a mission to "fundamentally transform America" - and he sure doesn't mean getting everybody to like eating turnips.
Oh Come on SB !!! the topic is 0 Jobs, and your saying that demand for goods and services isn't relevant to the lack of Jobs ? You know better !! -
Sep 03, 2011 5:23 PM GMTsouthbeach1500 said
realifedad said
Oh Come on SB !!! the topic is 0 Jobs, and your saying that demand for goods and services isn't relevant to the lack of Jobs ? You know better !!
It all routes back to Obama as being the problem.
All you need is patience and mark my words, once Obama is out of office, you'll see the economy pick up in a meaningful way shortly thereafter.
LOL. I guarantee that you will be more dissatisfied if/when a Republicans gets back in the White House, because not only will things get worse economically (as they always do when Republicans are in charge) but you'll have lost your favorite scapegoat.
Our economic problems are structural. Too much wealth in the hands of too few people = shitty economy. It has throughout history. Eventually the people wise up, and get rid of those (Republicans in our case) who created such disparities and the economy improves. -
Sep 03, 2011 5:47 PM GMTWHERE are all the jobs the GOP promised us
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Sep 03, 2011 5:58 PM GMT -
Sep 03, 2011 6:16 PM GMTRegarding the discussion of demand, yes, it is relevant. But SB is correct that it is not relevant to the current, immediate situation because there is sufficient demand for modest hiring, according to business leaders.
The low demand reflects the unemployment rate and general pessimism about the economy. Fact is leaders of business of all sizes have stated that they could hire, at least to some degree, but are not because of the regulatory climate and anti-business posture from the Administration, as well as other uncertainties. Once Obama is history, or the day after his likely defeat in 2012, businesses will start to hire. Not major hiring immediately because of the demand, but some hiring. The pessimism will be replaced initially by cautious optimism. That, together with an initial reduction in the unemployment rate, slight at first, but with a positive trend, will lead to greater demand, which, in turn, will lead to more hiring. The more hiring will lead to more optimism and more demand, and so on. There are interdependencies, but the first thing is to get rid of this Administration and its policies. -
Sep 03, 2011 8:04 PM GMTLack of consumers. Look at what's happening to bookstores. Video rental stores. In those cases it's because of going online instead, but clearly demonstrates what happens to a business when consumers disappear. Businesses don't hire people in order to create consumers. They hire because consumer demand for their product or service outstrips their workforce's ability to provide said product or service. This is really pretty simple. -
Sep 04, 2011 12:45 AM GMTmeninlove said Lack of consumers. Look at what's happening to bookstores. Video rental stores. In those cases it's because of going online instead, but clearly demonstrates what happens to a business when consumers disappear. Businesses don't hire people in order to create consumers. They hire because consumer demand for their product or service outstrips their workforce's ability to provide said product or service. This is really pretty simple.
Me thinks meninlove, that the simplicity of lack of demand as the true answer to the problem of few jobs being created, just doesn't fit into SoCal's complicated and trumped up talking points theory of business being uncertain and pessimistic. So who believes that when a magic wand waves away uncertainty and pessimism that these businesses/corps. are going to go into 'unprecidented' territory and expand their businesses, and hire people to make things and provided services that there is no demand for. LOL !!! Talk about VOODOO !!!
I cannot understand Republicans straining so hard at making up these baseless theories to promote making Obama a one term president as the answer to the problems of unemployment. It will backfire !!
Lets go one step further and take a bet as to whether or not if a Republican becomes the next potus, that they will forward infrastructure projects and the like to get money in the hands of the spending masses to increase 'demand'. Wa-do-ya-bet ? -
Sep 04, 2011 1:03 AM GMTsouthbeach1500 saidThe point is (for the hundredth time), that there will be no meaningful economic recovery prior to the November 2012 elections.
I hate to be the bearer of bad info.. but the GOP is NOT the messiah. never has been never will be.
If Obama loses, then you'll see a turnaround in the economy.
If Obama wins, but the Republicans solidify their majority in the House and take control of the Senate, you will also see a turnaround in the economy (though not as much as if Obama loses).
If Obama wins, and Congress remains divided, we'll have another 2 years of growth at a snails pace or recession.
If Obama wins, and control of the Congress goes back to the Democrats, then we'll head into a recession.realifedad said
Me thinks meninlove, that the simplicity of lack of demand as the true answer to the problem of few jobs being created, just doesn't fit into SoCal's complicated and trumped up talking points theory of business being uncertain and pessimistic. So who believes that when a magic wand waves away uncertainty and pessimism that these businesses/corps. are going to go into 'unprecidented' territory and expand their businesses, and hire people to make things and provided services that there is no demand for. LOL !!! Talk about VOODOO !!!
I cannot understand Republicans straining so hard at making up these baseless theories to promote making Obama a one term president as the answer to the problems of unemployment. It will backfire !!
Lets go one step further and take a bet as to whether or not if a Republican becomes the next potus, that they will forward infrastructure projects and the like to get money in the hands of the spending masses to increase 'demand'. Wa-do-ya-bet ? -
Sep 04, 2011 1:06 AM GMTrealifedad said... Me thinks meninlove, that the simplicity of lack of demand as the true answer to the problem of few jobs being created, just doesn't fit into SoCal's complicated and trumped up talking points theory of business being uncertain and pessimistic. ...
Not trumped up, based on significant input from business leaders, as I mentioned. If my answer going beyond the totally simplistic seems too complicated, can't help it. Tried to explain the interdependencies as simply as I could. -
Sep 04, 2011 1:10 AM GMTsouthbeach1500 saidThe point is (for the hundredth time), that there will be no meaningful economic recovery prior to the November 2012 elections.
If Obama loses, then you'll see a turnaround in the economy.
If Obama wins, but the Republicans solidify their majority in the House and take control of the Senate, you will also see a turnaround in the economy (though not as much as if Obama loses).
If Obama wins, and Congress remains divided, we'll have another 2 years of growth at a snails pace or recession.
If Obama wins, and control of the Congress goes back to the Democrats, then we'll head into a recession.realifedad said
Me thinks meninlove, that the simplicity of lack of demand as the true answer to the problem of few jobs being created, just doesn't fit into SoCal's complicated and trumped up talking points theory of business being uncertain and pessimistic. So who believes that when a magic wand waves away uncertainty and pessimism that these businesses/corps. are going to go into 'unprecidented' territory and expand their businesses, and hire people to make things and provided services that there is no demand for. LOL !!! Talk about VOODOO !!!
I cannot understand Republicans straining so hard at making up these baseless theories to promote making Obama a one term president as the answer to the problems of unemployment. It will backfire !!
Lets go one step further and take a bet as to whether or not if a Republican becomes the next potus, that they will forward infrastructure projects and the like to get money in the hands of the spending masses to increase 'demand'. Wa-do-ya-bet ?
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Well yes !! you said it !!! Your right too !!!
The Republicans will see to it that things will not improve, they have stated as much time and time again for the purpose of getting that black man out of their 'white'house. Just ask 'you lie' Wilson, Sarah "Obama doesn't think like us' Palin, Bachman, Rush 'I hope Obama fails' Limbaugh, Jim 'Obama's Waterloo' Demint, Bob 'my goal is to make Obama a one term president' McConnell and so on, whether or not things are going to improve until Obama is out of the way.
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Sep 04, 2011 1:29 AM GMTsouthbeach1500 said
realifedad said
The Republicans will see to it that things will not improve, they have stated as much time and time again for the purpose of getting that black man out of their 'white'house.
OK, now I know that I'm getting through to some of you, because you're now playing the race card.
No such thing !!! Just the way it is, ask Joe 'you lie' Wilson why he would say that in such a public forum as a nationally televised speech to the black man in the 'white'house and wouldn't think of saying such a thing otherwise. There is a lack of respect, a palpable disgust from the southern white far right TBagger backed types. Its a fact even you will find hard to deny. These bigots will see to it that nothing improves untill he's out of the 'white'house. -
Sep 04, 2011 2:16 AM GMTsouthbeach1500 said
realifedad said
The Republicans will see to it that things will not improve, they have stated as much time and time again for the purpose of getting that black man out of their 'white'house.
OK, now I know that I'm getting through to some of you, because you're now playing the race card.
The unwillingness, or hard to believe, inability of some to understand the basic relationships I presented speaks volumes about why they believe as they do. -
Sep 04, 2011 8:08 AM GMTsouthbeach1500 said
Christian73 said
LOL. I guarantee that you will be more dissatisfied if/when a Republicans gets back in the White House, because not only will things get worse economically (as they always do when Republicans are in charge) but you'll have lost your favorite scapegoat.
Really? Things seemed to be pretty good prior to the Democrats taking control of Congress in 2007.
But this topic is about ZERO jobs created last month. What happened to the first Obama jobs plan, wasn't that any good? Why does he need a "new" jobs plan?
At least Obama got Osama Bin Laden...and guess what...
...he wasn't in Iraq...and neither were the weapons of mass destruction!
