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May 10, 2008 10:36 AM GMT
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How do you feel about it? A guy I dated about six months ago recently messaged me on Facebook and he has this information in his profile.
He never said anything about this while we were dating even though I told him my negative status. We always used condoms. Now I feel annoyed and angry. I haven't replied to his message and don't think i'm going to at the moment cos I may say stuff I'll regret later. What do you think?
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May 10, 2008 11:53 AM GMT
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If you haven't been tested get yourself tested
... and treat this as a learning device
First always play safe
and second ask some direct questions
...no wiggle room
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May 10, 2008 1:42 PM GMT
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I've been told my attitude is too extreme, but I believe you should assume the other person is positive all the time, even if he says he's not.
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May 10, 2008 1:48 PM GMT
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Well, I used condoms. I always use them, it just freaks me out when guys lie.
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May 10, 2008 1:59 PM GMT
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I behave like Timberoo. Assume they're positive. Assume they could have herpes even if they aren't having an outbreak you can see. Assume they performed and received oral sex without the proper protection. Every sexual encounter, for both gays, straights and all points in between, is fraught with a dollop of risk. Size of the dollop depends on the amount of honesty at work in the situation.
Sounds, though, as if you - redheadguy - have already figured out your strategy, allowing a little distance in which you can regain some composure in the situation.
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May 10, 2008 2:05 PM GMT
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You didn't ask him in the first place?
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May 10, 2008 2:19 PM GMT
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I dated a guy like that once but honestly I don't think he knew his sero status. I always insisted he wear a condom for butt sex however, I must have sucked a quart or two of his cum and I swallow. He and I drifted apart and a year and a half later I found out he died from AIDS. His viral load must have been through the roof.
I get tested every three months and never converted. I was a bit shaken and I'm glad I didn't give in when he pleaded to bareback me.
I'm not afraid of being with poz guys though. The virus doesn't change them into monsters. I have no problem dating poz guys, kissing and carressing and finding safe ways to releive their tension. I find the poz guys I know to be quite an inspiration to the human spirit.
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May 10, 2008 2:20 PM GMT
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On his Mancunt profile it says negative. However, on his Facebook profile he describes himself as a poz but healthy man (also partnered which he mysteriously forgot to mention too).
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May 10, 2008 2:22 PM GMT
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hey redhead..
we all have been in this position...and I think this is tricky...
for instance I dated a guy who tested negative BUT was original diagnosed as HIV positive and thru an anti-viral drug routine, he tests negative/ non reactive...
I also knew of a friend who got involved with his partner and he had tested negative, then into the relationship, he tested positive..
therefore..my advise...always protect yourself..no matter what...HIV status is a personal decision to convey to others...therefore you treat everyone like they are positive to protect yourself..
Just like me and many others we all have been with other men who are positive and we did not know it: whether it has been "a one nighter" or "just dating" and they didnt convey there HIV status..
For myself, I info the guy that Im negative and practice safe sex. On the other hand, I like foreplay, which includes oral sex, and CDC states the virus can be transmitted that way. Either way, if you practiced safe sex, i know you are negative..
I would find out from your friend why at this time he did inform you..maybe you two started as casual dating and now he likes you more than "just dating" and wanted to be up front before moving on...
I think you are freaked out because you truly knows his HIV status...Again, we all have been there my friend...
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May 10, 2008 2:23 PM GMT
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redheadguy saidOn his Mancunt profile it says negative. However, on his Facebook profile he describes himself as a poz but healthy man (also partnered which he mysteriously forgot to mention too). Obviously he's a total dick. |
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May 10, 2008 2:32 PM GMT
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I think I will extricate myself out of this particular situation by not responding to him. I will leave him to have fun with his partner and other suckers.
And I agree absolutely, sexual health is my own responsibility, no-one else's.
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May 10, 2008 3:19 PM GMT
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My experience: Manhunt: Guys lie about their status in some situations.
On this site, more than any other, it is about the 'sex'..and not the person. Online, I have experienced super aggressive guys with obnoxious sexual demands...
It is a frightening look into the entitlement these guys have regarding sex, and their lack of care and concern for the person they are with...
I have a friend who is HIV+ and displays it in his MH profile...he'll chat wih neg and poz guys often.
A typical interaction consists of
a few exchanged pleasantries and then talk of the possible sexual encounter. When he refuses sex with one of these neg guys due to being 'HIV discordant'
(he will not have sex with guys unless they are poz, like him...he believes neg with neg AND poz with poz, only) they THEN inform him that they are poz and they put neg in their profiles to be more appealing.
Shameful. Sad. Understandable.
The guideline of assuming everyone is positive seems to be a good rule of thumb...what we do with that info (oral, etc) is another decision. If there is a high enough viral load, then transmission is possible, thru oral sex.
Like redheadguy, I 'dated' a guy and then, months later, he informed me he was HIV+...he didn't know 'til recently...and is going through a terrible time of adjustment. Our romantic separation, previously, had little to do with the HIV+, there were other obstacles along the way.
I still have feelings for him, and am deciding what to do with them...
I'd like to be a good friend...my feelings go deeper than any passing romantic interest.
I truly care for him and want to be there for him...how this will pan out...not sure, yet.
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May 10, 2008 3:27 PM GMT
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I'm like RunintheCity... Many people think I'm too extreme with my sexual boundaries. But I have them in place because guys LIE. And they do so with a surprising amount of ease too. If you don't put your own boundaries in place and adhere to them, ultimately you will be the one to blame if you seroconvert. Here's a story for you: I met a guy on A4A who wanted me to come over and do him. I have all of my stuff about safe sex only with neg. guys in my profile, and you can't miss it. He said he was neg. and that was cool. His picture kinda looked familiar after he unlocked his face though. I get to his place and sure enough I recognized him from a Treasure Island Media video that was all about him taking loads up his butt. I finally got him to at least admit that he "didn't know" his status cuz he hadn't been tested in a few years, but tested Neg. the last time he did. AT LEAST IF YOU ARE GONNA LIE, LIE WELL!!!!  |
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May 10, 2008 3:34 PM GMT
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It's pricks like this that ruin it for everyone. EVERYONE.
Anyone who is HIV+ and doesn't tell his sexual partner, yet engages in risky behavior with them, should have "HIV+" tattooed to his dick so no one else gets screwed.
OK maybe not, but this stuff really bugs me, and I've been hearing similar stories from a few people these days. Lately I've been avoiding certain kinds of intimate sexual contact with a particular person because he had a similar situation come up recently. Actually make that two people.
EDIT: OK. Cooled off. It takes two to engage in risky behavior. Most of you guys above are right. Damn I hate condoms. Damn I love trust. Damn I wish momogamy meant monogamy and nothing extra. Damn the self-loathing, lies, and lack of respect for others' well being. Grr.
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May 10, 2008 3:47 PM GMT
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redheadguy saidOn his Mancunt profile it says negative. However, on his Facebook profile he describes himself as a poz but healthy man (also partnered which he mysteriously forgot to mention too). Oh, I think you should tell him what a sociopathic jackass he is, seriously. |
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May 10, 2008 4:09 PM GMT
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Oh Red feck he should have told you at least what an arsehole!!!
Thank god you did the Johnny bit?
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May 10, 2008 4:42 PM GMT
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What's a Johnny bit?  |
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May 10, 2008 4:44 PM GMT
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RyanOji saidWhat's a Johnny bit? Oh sorry Dude "Johnny" is an old english word for a condom it stem's back to the days in the 40's when the Yank's invaded the UK and screwed all of our Women! The fucked off back home alone!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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May 10, 2008 5:07 PM GMT
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This guy has committed a criminal offense. Any one who is HIV+ know their status is bound by law to communicate this to their persepective partners. Not doing so is a felony and he could be charge with attempted murder PERIOD. That's the law in the USA. I don't undrstand the guy did not reveal his status to you he did not care about your feelings why are you concerned about his??? I don't get it! Why did you not ask him about his HIV status when you disclosed yours? That is one of the first questions that I ask before there is even talk of sex! If the guy does not like it then he can "KICK ROCKS"! |
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May 10, 2008 6:13 PM GMT
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Hopefully you had protection. Get tested. Think before you stick it in and vise versa! ASK ASK ASK!
Mainly, you need to get tested dude. Stop the cycle!
Its so easy to not make these mistakes. Why are guys so stupid about this. I just don't get it.
You just can't trust anyone. I suggest a hazmat suit when hooking up.
Everyone can learn from this mistake! Thanks for Sharing!
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May 10, 2008 6:24 PM GMT
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Well, I used condoms so i was protected.
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May 10, 2008 6:50 PM GMT
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That was six months ago so what's the problem? Just tell him that you know about his status and explain how you found out about it. Also ask if he knew what his status was when you dated and take it from there.
Maybe he was neg. then. To be non-responsive does not seem fair. Maybe he was reaching out to you to explain this to you.
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May 10, 2008 7:23 PM GMT
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Six months and he's just now telling you because you found out on Facebook?!?  Not good. Sooooo not good. Six months, and he didn't disclose; are you kidding me?! WTF? I'll try to be objective later, but right now I'm pissed for you. |
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May 10, 2008 7:57 PM GMT
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Personally, I take that seriously. I do not consider anyone who is positive not informing me of their status as a friend. At 50, I've been to way too many funerals to tolerate that. Being HIV positive is not a disaster. Not telling someone who is potentially important to you in your life of yoour status is a big deal.
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May 10, 2008 8:35 PM GMT
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Timberoo saidI've been told my attitude is too extreme, but I believe you should assume the other person is positive all the time, even if he says he's not. Not an extreme attitude, just a smart one. Before I screwed up (it took just once) I dated several poz guys. One of them didn't tell me about his status until we'd been seeing each other for few weeks. I was mildly annoyed because I felt bad that he was afraid to tell me, but I was never angry with him about it. I always had the attitude that it was solely my responsibility to watch out for myself. I was the one who made the decision to be safe or not. Therefore, unless the other person physically forced me to have unprotected sex with him, I considered myself the responsible party. I never felt I needed to know the other guy's status because I had always treated everyone like they were positive. It was when I didn't that I got into trouble. |
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May 10, 2008 8:49 PM GMT
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Yep. Condoms, Rose, condoms, condoms, condoms.
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May 10, 2008 9:10 PM GMT
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The important thing is that he IS telling people now. If it were me, I'd want to ask him when he found out, and why he hasn't changed his other profile. Some people have lots of profiles and update them infrequently.
If he's lying to people and trying to have unprotected sex with them, then he needs to be stopped. It IS assault. If he's just being lax about not updating old info, and he changes it, then that's another issue. If you were tested as positive, would changing your profiles be very high on your list? I'd give him at least a little credit for being open about it on facebook, but only if he found out after he stopped seeing you, and only if he stops telling people he is negative.
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May 10, 2008 9:17 PM GMT
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I'd contact him ...
Just to let him know that he lied
What I would do is contact him on his Facebook page and just say
.... So, you're Positive?
One question - nothing else
Let's him know he was a dick
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May 10, 2008 9:28 PM GMT
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While I was still down home living in the bush. I had a sexual relationship with a guy, over a few years. We first used condoms, and after talking with him, we went bear back. Gees sex was so hot. The only reason we stopped having sex was because I moved to the city.
I was out one night and I ran into another guy from down home. He was giving me strange looks. Then the next time he seen me the same come to pass.
So I went over to talk with him. He stated How well I looked. And then said you did not go to *^%@# funeral. I was what he's dead, did he die in a car accident or something.
He was no. He died of AIDES. Did you not know he had AIDES. I was no! Now we had talked about this, and he never let on. It's why we bare backed.
he was also very surprised. I am still HIV- This is why he kept saying "you look so well!"
Every one down home though I did not go to his funeral, either because I was to sick, and angry.
But it was only because I knew nothing about it. This guy was happy to give me a death sentence, just so he would not miss out on hot sex.
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May 10, 2008 9:58 PM GMT
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The big difference is this: his Facebook profile is not a hook-up profile. It's a 'this is who I am, this is what i'm doing profile'. you know what i mean? His mancunt profile is this: sex sex sex
i'm not even sure why he's contacting me on facebook or how he got my details.
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May 10, 2008 9:59 PM GMT
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I am confused - how could he be partnered and you dated him and you didn't know. Of when you say "dated" do you mean you went out with him just a few times. To me to say i dated a guy i would say it would have to have been a few months.
But yes, lesson learned - you are responsible for yourself. And I wouldn't exactly say he lied to you if you never asked him. And perhaps he just converted recently after you "dated".
But yeah guys lie thinking if you use condoms and minimal oral that they don't have to tell you or they can lie. Never did understand that. But assume all strangers are pos unless you just really know them that well.
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May 10, 2008 10:11 PM GMT
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red good you used Condoms. Hope all is well with you. This is a lesson for all of us, if in doubt ASK
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May 10, 2008 10:20 PM GMT
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Asking is the hardest part.
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May 10, 2008 10:29 PM GMT
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I'm curious - when people say that you should have sexual encounters as if the guy were positive, what exactly does this mean? Does it preclude oral? Or do you do oral with protection? Or run, you said you act as if the guy has herpes - does that mean you don't touch his johnson when you fool around? I'm curious about what constitutes truly safe casual sex.
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May 10, 2008 10:44 PM GMT
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redheadguy saidAsking is the hardest part. Asking does not always give you the truth! I think it's absolutely vile how another man, is able to put the want of his dick, before the life of another. Working in the gay community in the early 80's. I seen this time, and time again. Putting the joys of their dick, before the health and wellbeing of another. Asking does not always translate into the truth. |
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May 10, 2008 10:50 PM GMT
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has anyone on here ever tried to covertly peep into someone's medicine cabinet before considering having sex with that person?
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May 13, 2008 6:53 PM GMT
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innerathlete saidI'm curious - when people say that you should have sexual encounters as if the guy were positive, what exactly does this mean? Does it preclude oral? Or do you do oral with protection? Or run, you said you act as if the guy has herpes - does that mean you don't touch his johnson when you fool around? I'm curious about what constitutes truly safe casual sex. Oh don't ask that question on here - look it up for yourself. But hiv is probably the hardest or most impossible std to get orally. |
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May 13, 2008 7:15 PM GMT
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has anyone on here ever tried to covertly peep into someone's medicine cabinet before considering having sex with that person?
A lot of guys would not be on meds so poking around someone's bathroom cabinet would be pointless, not that I would.
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May 13, 2008 7:20 PM GMT
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I think the "assume they're HIV+" is the smartest and safest attitude to have. I don't think all HIV+ men are monsters, but I think that, this examples in this thread, and I things I've seen here in Omaha, I think and feel that some of these guys WANT to pass it on to another person. That's how hurt and angry they are deep inside. And here in backwards Nebraska, its OK to be that way, there is NO law covering the intentional infecting of another with HIV!
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May 13, 2008 7:24 PM GMT
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Ducky44 saidThis guy has committed a criminal offense. Any one who is HIV+ know their status is bound by law to communicate this to their persepective partners.
Not doing so is a felony and he could be charge with attempted murder PERIOD. That's the law in the USA.
Only if a condom is NOT being used does someone have to reveal their status. I'm not standing up for this guy, he's clearly wrong in not disclosing his status. Bottom line, like so many have said before - always protect yourself, no one else is going to. |
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May 13, 2008 7:25 PM GMT
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From my point of view (a poz guy), not telling a potential partner is absolutely criminal behavior. When I was single, I told guys at some point during the initial meeting, when heads were cooler, never mind waiting until sex was about to happen.
I fully support locking up folks that do this.
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May 13, 2008 7:38 PM GMT
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redheadguy saidhas anyone on here ever tried to covertly peep into someone's medicine cabinet before considering having sex with that person?
A lot of guys would not be on meds so poking around someone's bathroom cabinet would be pointless, not that I would. I must admit that I've done this twice in my life  (when I was going to manhunt many many many years ago -I got most of my STDs from guys on there, except the HIV). I didn't know what I was looking for and that late at night I wouldn't retain the names of the meds anyway, so I couldn't research them. I stopped looking after the second time; it just felt weird to do it. I told myself, if you're going to be snooping, then you shouldn't be on manhunt. Such an interesting time in my life, that was. I did run into one guy that told me that all of his pills (which he had on his counter) were anti-depressants and adamantly affirmed that he wasn't poz. I didn't get anything from him. |
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May 13, 2008 7:40 PM GMT
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I think a big issue for HIV+ guys is accepting their new status and this leads to an inability and unwillingness to change their behaviour even though they know at the back of their minds that what they are doing may help spread the virus.
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May 13, 2008 7:45 PM GMT
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I am sorry to hear that redheadguy. I am sure you are safe and negative. It is impossible to get positive so soon. Knock on wood! I talk to a sweet guy name David (dfrourke) about HIV positive and he told me only way to get HIV + is when you feel sick or have a flu.
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May 13, 2008 7:47 PM GMT
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GQjock saidIf you haven't been tested get yourself tested Every three months? |
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May 14, 2008 2:20 PM GMT
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Did you ask him directly and to his face? Looking at what you wrote, you didn't ask him.
Let's think of it this way ... maybe he forgot to change his status on his acct. That happens. He is human as are you. We make mistakes.
And I am surprised how fast you are to judge him. Talk to him about this. He's going to go through a difficult time right now. He may need an ear more than anything.
Leaving him high and dry is a shallow and callous thing to do. If you want to break it off with him because of his status ... tell him. Be a man about it.
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May 14, 2008 2:34 PM GMT
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I always ALWAYS assume someone is positive even if they tell me they are negative until I know for sure. Maybe they think they are negative, but haven't been tested in awhile. You can't be too careful when it comes to your health. You and only YOU are responsible for protecting yourself.
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May 14, 2008 2:57 PM GMT
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John43620 saidI dated a guy like that once but honestly I don't think he knew his sero status. I always insisted he wear a condom for butt sex however, I must have sucked a quart or two of his cum and I swallow. He and I drifted apart and a year and a half later I found out he died from AIDS. His viral load must have been through the roof. Just because a person dies from an HIV/AIDS related illness does not mean his/her viral load is through the roof. Please stop perpetuating false information. It simply means their immune system was not strong enough to fight off an infection and that their health eventually succumbed to it. |
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May 14, 2008 3:16 PM GMT
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If I were in your position I imagine that I would be pretty scared and angry. Like a couple of the other guys I would definetly want to know how long he knew.
I honestly can not imagine the kind of a guy that knows he is positive and would put others at risk without disclosing status and letting you make your own decision. I personally wouldn't take the chance. Condoms break and people cut the inside of their mouths all the time so oral sex would be out too.
I would get tested every month for a long time and cease sexual activity, but that's just me.
Take care man and good luck.
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May 14, 2008 3:20 PM GMT
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muchmorethenmuscle.
If someone's immune system becomes weakened to the degree where they can't fight off an infection, doesn't that imply that their viral load is high enough to supress their white blood cells? I don't know enough about it but it seems logical enough.
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May 14, 2008 3:25 PM GMT
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May 14, 2008 4:10 PM GMT
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I find a lot of you guys to be ridiculous. You expect to be able to trust a guy that you meet online and the whole goal of your meeting is to have sex and nothing more. Some of you automatically assume that because you feel so vehemently about what "you" consider to be right and wrong that the naked stranger next to you in bed shares your same opinion when it comes to these matters.
Now, instead of you judging these people so harshly let's put a mirror in front of you to show how foolish you come off. Let's do this by giving this same stranger your wallet with your SS#, your credit cards and check book and cash. Do you still expect to trust this person with your finances? No? Oh but you expected them to be honest about their sexual history and hiv status? I see, that's very interesting.
It's absolutely imbecilic to expect so much responsibility from your partner when the whole basis of your experience with that person is hedonistically motivated and nothing more. People lie about so much when it comes to casual sex, such as giving you a false first name, whether single or not, etc.
And isn't it ironic that bigguysf goes on about safe sex yet obviously recognizes a porn star that's affiliated with Treasure Island Media - a porn company noted strictly for making bareback "unsafe" videos. Are we to assume that it's okay to watch others have bareback sex occur so long as we don't participate? I guess that would be like watching someone else get mugged and yet think nothing of it. Hey as long as I'm not the one getting mugged then it's "okay." He also didn't mention if he did or did not have sex with him. Yet he's made it clear that this person is a liar and that the character of this "load taking" porn star is dubious at best. My guess is, bigguysf, screwed him first, and now chastises him for the "bad" person he is. It's typical male bullshit.
How can you expect your opinion to really matter when you're meeting guys off of websites that are solely for the purpose of having anonymous sex? It's just laughable.
I know that some of you have also dated guys that have lied. You may not be wrapped up in a lecherous lifestyle of sex with strangers but in all fairness you're responsible for yourselves. If you're dating and it's getting serious go get tested together. Stop lingering in this fatuous cyclic redundancy of "victim-hood" and take charge of matters that "matter" to you. And let's not hear anymore of how someone was dishonest about their status. If it's so important to you-request that he provide you with his medical records to prove to you he's negative.
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May 14, 2008 4:17 PM GMT
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My two cents:
First, it's "AIDS" and most of us know it's a syndrome most commonly used to describe concurrent infections causing havoc on the immune system of a positive person. That is, their body cannot fight a war on multiple fronts due to the presence of the virus.
With that outta the way...
Having spent my fair share of time on Manhunt in "dating" periods past, I can say I've run into a number of guys who I knew were positive, but who did not display their status on their profile, or all out lied. I have to assume that while in the digital (often fantasy) world of online sex profiles, they were escaping their reality and not wanting to limit their interaction to just other positive people.
It's a sad thing when guys offer the advice "treat everyone like they are positive" but you can't argue, it's the safest route. True, you cannot see HIV, nor can you see Herpes (provided there is no outbreak.) Seriously, how many guys out there are using condoms for oral sex? Yeah, that's what I thought. It's a risky behavior to not use condoms for oral sex, but much lower than unprotected anal. And even lower if you do not swallow. The mucus membrane in your mouth is much stronger than that in the lining of your esophagus or stomach - less likely to have been compromised and let the virus in.
HIV infection is on the rise. The popularity of bareback sex in gay community is sky-high. Meth rocked our community and is still strong in some regions. We should have kicked this virus' ass by now.
The guy was wrong to not disclose his status, either on the Manhunt profile or in-person. He was also wrong not to disclose his relationship status, if he was truly in a relationship at the time you were "dating" or having sex.
I don't agree with some others who have posted before me, what good does confronting him do? He wasn't honest or upfront before, what makes you think he'll be now? Lesson learned; I'd move on. You'll never respect him enough to be true friends.
I blew a guy in a bath house a LONG time ago and then got a call a week or so later. He was too afraid to tell me he was positive in the moment, fearing I'd end the encounter. He was probably right, I would have. I didn't know much about the range of risk and would have likely run the other direction. It sucked. I was scared, angry and anxious to get tested. I am still tested every 4 month or so.
Honesty is sexy, guys who share their status are sexy. And HIV positive guys can be VERY sexy. The less "us versus them" mentality out there, the better off we're all going to be. Couldn't we negative guys just as easily be positive? You've never slipped up, not used a condom, not asked a person's status? If you did make that mistake, would you want to be judged by those who were negative? How would you feel when people joked about using tattoos to identify you?
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May 14, 2008 4:23 PM GMT
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Kevin82 saidmuchmorethenmuscle.
If someone's immune system becomes weakened to the degree where they can't fight off an infection, doesn't that imply that their viral load is high enough to supress their white blood cells? I don't know enough about it but it seems logical enough. It's not always the case that someone's viral load is high if they eventually succumb to an AIDS related illness and eventually die. There are two aspects to this illness to consider. These are viral load and the number of tcells that one has. A person with less than 200 tcells is considered to have full blown AIDS. A person can have a viral load in the millions (which of course is very high) or can be undetectable. In theory, a person can have an undetectable viral load but if this person has only 8 Tcells this person is in BIG trouble when it comes to staving infection. I'm not saying that this is common but rather an exaggeration to make my point. Now a person can have a high viral load yet have 1500 Tcells. This person would be considered to have a very good immune system but would also be considered highly infectious. This means that this person can more easily transmit hiv to another through bodily fluid exchange in contrast to someone who is considered undetectable. A high viral load doesn't automatically declare a person's mortality or the near coming of. It simply means that this person can more easily infect another person because there is "more" virus in his/her bodily fluids per measure compared to undetectable levels. |
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May 14, 2008 4:43 PM GMT
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Timberoo saidI've been told my attitude is too extreme, but I believe you should assume the other person is positive all the time, even if he says he's not.
There it is right there above. Words to live by. I know it's none of our business but can I ask how long you "dated" this guy? You did say you dated him right? Or was this just a one or two time hookup? When I think of "dating" I guess I assume you are exclusively getting to know this person over a period of time vs a one night stand or fuck bud. If this was someone you were "getting to know" did the subject ever come up about producing current, valid proof of each of your hiv status? If not, you may want to approach dating someone like this in the future. I'd also think if you are getting to know one another you'd be aware of telling signs that he was seeing someone else as well. Sorry if I'm prying too much. If by chance this guy was irresponsible and did know his status learn from that also. This means it's now your turn to be responsible and go get tested. I'm real sorry you are going through this. It's a sobering moment but occasionally we need a swift kick in the head to remind us of certain things. Apply those lessons in the future. |
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May 14, 2008 4:46 PM GMT
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pdxboxer saidMy two cents:
The guy was wrong to not disclose his status, either on the Manhunt profile or in-person. He was also wrong not to disclose his relationship status, if he was truly in a relationship at the time you were "dating" or having sex.
This is coming from a guy that goes to bath houses and has anonymous sex. See boys and girls? This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is so harebrained. To indulge in such casual behavior yet get so scared and upset when you finally realize the seriousness of your injudicious actions. And why do you feel you have a right to know someone's hiv status when you don't even know his name? Privileged private medical information is just that - private. Some people don't care to let the whole world know that they have hiv, cancer, or any other serious medical condition. Especially by way of some sleazy lascivious website like manhunt. That's so very undignified to inform the whole internet world that a person has a medical condition. How can you not agree? I mean, honestly. I've learned a long time ago not to expect a guy to call me back after our initial horizontal "mambo" dance lesson. I've simply learned not to expect all that much from sex with "strangers." Those of you that do are in a deluded state. It's as if some of you bickering on here demand a full medical report. Nowadays I don't put much effort into whoring it up like I did and how some of you still do. My advice is, keep it in your pants, stop passing judgment and you'll see how much easier your life can be. I really don't know why I'm debating this with someone who frequents bathhouses. Damn, I really need to get a life. |
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May 14, 2008 5:09 PM GMT
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."ITALIf you're dating and it's getting serious go get tested together. Stop lingering in this fatuous cyclic redundancy of "victim-hood" and take charge of matters that "matter" to you. And let's not hear anymore of how someone was dishonest about their status. If it's so important to you-request that he provide you with his medical records to prove to you he's negativeIC TEXT GOES HERE".
Agree - just keep in mind guys - not all men (even after testing negative together) and saying they will remain monogamous - follow through. Working in the HIV realm for over a decade, it was really sad to see how many women and men became infected by their so called monogamous partners. Lets keep in mind, not all people with HIV infection knowingly or willingly put themselves at risk - that is unless your definition of puting oneself at risk is the act of sexual expression itself.
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May 14, 2008 5:18 PM GMT
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Morethanmuscle,
You seem to be the one passing judgment all around. More than any other previous post.
I WENT to a bath house (4 years ago), I do not frequent them. So what if I did? Because your "whoring" phase is over, all others should stop or just take your word for it? Arrogant, to say the least.
Your attitude is what keeps these discussions from taking place. You want to shame other guys for seeking sexual gratification and paint them all with a deviant brush. People are entitled to fulfill their sexual needs anywhere, anyhow they choose, PROVIDED THEY ARE NOT HURTING ANOTHER (unless it's consensual, lol). No one deserves HIV, nor do they deserve to be lied to.
Yes, I expect, as do many, that ANY sexual partner be honest in reply to my questions.
Does your intolerance come from insecurity, or a suppressed sexual desire? I'm just curious.
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May 14, 2008 5:23 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle said
And why do you feel you have a right to know someone's hiv status when you don't even know his name? Privileged private medical information is just that - private. Some people don't care to let the whole world know that they have hiv, cancer, or any other serious medical condition. Especially by way of some sleazy lascivious website like manhunt. That's so very undignified to inform the whole internet world that a person has a medical condition. How can you not agree?
I understand what you're saying, but I can't agree with this. I think we all have a responsibility to our sexual partners, and part of that responsibility is informing them if you have a contractible disease. Your cancer analogy is a false one, since cancer is not contractible. There are some guys that don't want to sleep with people who have HIV or another STD, and it's fully within their rights to not want that, even if it's a bit deluded to think that they never will. By not informing a person of your status, you are effectively taking the right to know and make a decision away from another person. That's wrong, no matter how you parse it. |
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May 14, 2008 5:24 PM GMT
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Ducky44 saidThis guy has committed a criminal offense. Any one who is HIV+ know their status is bound by law to communicate this to their persepective partners.
Not doing so is a felony and he could be charge with attempted murder PERIOD. That's the law in the USA.
Just so you know Ducky, you are right. But what's more common is the issue of gossipy queens revealing the hiv status of other individuals. This is also illegal and is a lot more commonly fought in legal battles. It's illegal to disclose a person's hiv status. I know of a someone personally that took legal action against some gossipy fellow homosexual for disclosing his hiv status and won. But back to the point you made, Ducky. I can just see it now. The court room is filled with tension as the plaintiff exclaims, "Your honor! I'm the victim here! How was I to know about his (the defendant's) hiv status when I described to him online and in full detail of how I like to leave the door open for my anonymous sex partner to let himself in only to be greeted by the sight of my ass wavering eagerly in the air and me on all fours and a bottle of poppers dangling from my nostrils?! It's all very theatrical. Throw in a few extra props such as lil' booze, some meth, a couple of manhunt accounts inundated with whoreish proclivities and you got yourself a solid, sound case.  |
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May 14, 2008 5:38 PM GMT
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Chewey_Delt said[quote][cite] Your cancer analogy is a false one, since cancer is not contractible.
That's all you care about, is how whatever happens between you and another person affects "you." YOU go out and seek out sexual exploits to please no one other than YOUrself. It's been all about you yet now all of the sudden the responsibility has fallen completely on your sexual partner. Well there is more to the situation than how YOU yourself are affected. I used other illnesses as a way to make my point. That medical information is confidential. If you're so concerned about hiv and don't want to associate with others that are, by all means make it loud and clear and express this in your profiles online. I'm sure those that have hiv will avoid you. Just like you can't tell most of the time that a person is hiv+, one can't always tell that they're dealing with a person who has irrational fears concerning something that is easily controlled with condoms. All this crying and whining about people afraid of getting hiv from someone who lied about their status are either indulging in anal sex without condoms or are simply being irrational. Everyone I know who has hiv got it from engaging in anal sex without condoms. You wear a condom to protect yourself. Yet you want to know for certain that your partner is negative. Now all other STD's aside if there is no hiv and no other complications to worry about what's the problem? It's like wearing your seatbelt in your car parked in the driveway and telling yourself, "Well, I'm not going to drive this thing, I could get into an accident!" And all you do is sit there with no movement. |
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May 14, 2008 5:48 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle said
That's all you care about, is how whatever happens between you and another person affects "you." Well there is more to the situation than how YOU yourself are affected. I used other illnesses as a way to make my point. That medical information is confidential.
If you're so concerned about hiv and don't want to associate with others that are, by all means make it loud and clear and express this in your profiles online. I'm sure those that have hiv will avoid you.
Just like you can't tell most of the time that a person is hiv+, one can't always tell that they're dealing with a person who has irrational fears concerning something that is easily controlled with condoms.
All this crying and whining about people afraid of getting hiv from someone who lied about their status are either indulging in anal sex without condoms or are simply being irrational. Everyone I know who has hiv got it from engaging in anal sex without condoms. You wear a condom to protect yourself. Yet you want to know for certain that your partner is negative. Now all other STD's aside if there is no hiv and no other complications to worry about what's the problem? It's like wearing your seatbelt in your car parked in the driveway and telling yourself, "Well, I'm not going to drive this thing, I could get into an accident!" And all you do is sit there with no movement. See, here's the thing. That position goes both ways. A person who is HIV+ and doesn't disclose is guilty of just the same offense as you think a person who desires honesty is committing. If a person with HIV doesn't disclose, it's likely out of a fear that they'll be rejected. Well isn't that him just thinking about himself and no one else? Besides that, since when has anyone in this thread, anyone at all, stated that it's solely the responsibility of the HIV+ person? Everyone here so far, that I can see, has stated that it is just as much a responsibility of the HIV- person to practice safe sex every time. And don't start thinking that I'm stating that I won't sleep with or be in a relationship with someone who has HIV. I have in the past, and I likely will in the future, because I am safe anytime I have sex. That doesn't, however, preclude another person from still having the responsibility to disclose the status of a disease that he could spread to someone else. Condoms, while extremely effective, are not foolproof, and there are those out there who don't want to even take that 5% chance. They have every right, and a person with HIV or any other contractible disease has a responsibility to disclose their status, because otherwise they're taking from a person their right to make an informed decision. |
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May 14, 2008 6:20 PM GMT
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I've invested way too much effort into this topic. The title alone is "super" ludicrous - "Finding out a person's HIV status "AFTER" you slept with them." If you use condoms correctly and you never hear from your trick again and years go by, all the while you get tested for hiv and are still negative - all is fine. No worries. No biggie, everyone moves on. Yet the moment you find out more information about the situation you find it within your right to chastise and to overreact. Nothing changed about the situation. You simply know more about your sex partner. And how many people have sex with only one person, wait 6 months to one year, all the while not engaging in sexual affairs with others to truly know whom they really caught hiv from if they do in fact become infected? The only people that get my sympathy are those that believe themselves to be in a monogamous relationship who sero-convert to hiv because of a cheating spouse. Hey I'm no angel. I've whored it up in the past and got my credit card stolen once and a guy gave me an oral std from me performing the oral sex on him. And yes it was even more slutty because I was at a bathhouse when this happened. The difference between me and most of you on this forum is that I take responsibility for my actions and take accountability for what I participated in. Do I think asking him would have made a difference? Let's see, maybe it would go something like this, "Excuse me fellow whore slut. Did you steal my credit card?" Or "Is your seminal fluid ladened with gonorrhea? I ask because I'm really in the mood to suck cock at this very moment but I prefer not to get an STD." The simplest most dignified way to let all of this go is to simply avoid casual situations altogether. Life is less complicated and you no longer give your loving fellow homosexual brethren any reason to call you by those nifty singularly syllabled words (i.e. = whore, slut, skank, HO, tramp....) But then again, some of you like that kind of thing. |
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May 14, 2008 6:58 PM GMT
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Muchmore,
I think part of the problem here is that there are two different issues: a normative one and a positive one.
The positive one is the one you're responding to, which is that guys do lie and withhold information. Your response--that anyone is stupid for thinking otherwise--would be reasonable if anyone were arguing otherwise; but no one is. Everyone so far had said it is their responsibilty to keep themselves safe by using protection.
The normative issue, however, is just as important and is the onexyou don't seem to think exists. The normative issue is that we should feel a responsibilty to our sexual partners. That responsiblity encompasses the need to be fully honest about the status of any disease that you could spread so that your partner can make an informed decision about whether he feels the risk is low enough (and I think most would agree that it is very low given the proper protection). We should all aspire to a world that in which our sexual proclivities are done in a way that is honest and reasonably safe.
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May 14, 2008 8:48 PM GMT
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Chewey, you silly rabbit. Tricks are for....?
There is no normative issue here to be focused on. That's not what this thread was started for. It was RedheadGuy's regret about having slept with someone who he didn't know had hiv. It's about him refraining from exercising his anger over the situation. Or as to whether or not he should express his anger.
Since you appear so eager to have a foothold by telling me what things are about then let me inform you on what issues can and usually do come forth from situations like these. They are centered around exploitation, rejection, humiliation, etc.
Boy meets boy in any given situation, whether it be boozing it up at a bar or fervently typing away whilst using their hoochie manhunt accounts. Boy #1 hits on boy #2 and seduces him with compliments and acts all warm and affectionately toward boy #2. Boy #2 feels flattered and is also attracted to boy #1. It's all touchy-feely and smiles from that moment. They carry on, they hit it off, it appears to be a symbiotic attraction between the pair. Then, out of the blue, boy #1 inappropriately asks boy #2 his hiv status. Boy #2 answers honestly and boy #1 becomes colder than ice and then finds some lame ass excuse to leave boy #2 high and dry while he works someone else either in the same club or while still online.
Boy #2 went from feeling wonderfully attractive to feeling like a leper in a matter of minutes. But none of this is of any concern because all that matters is that boy #1 gets what he wants. And that is, a slutty lay in the sack with what otherwise is a perfect stranger. Was it too much for boy #2 to be treated with dignity and respect? Sadly and apparently so. Does it matter that boy #2 now has his personal private information advertised by boy #1 who's now blabbing this information to others at the bar with the intent to besmirch boy #2's reputation? Does it matter that now, everytime boy #2 comes to the club the only thing that people associate with boy #2 is disease and pestilence? Does it matter that boy #2 will, unfortunately and most likely, have to endure discrimination at the hands of insensitive, twatty asswipes? Of course not! All that matters is boy #1's agenda and of course boy #2's obligation to boy #1's physical well being. What was I thinking......?
I can't believe I had to spell it out for you.
When people say they'd rather know a person's hiv status in order to determine what they'd do in the sack it almost always has to do with engaging in risky behavior if they believe their partner to be negative, i.e. barebacking and swallowing semen. None of this matters! If your partner gets tested every 6 mos. and he was exposed 2 months ago he can still pass it to you if he is indeed infected. There is NO guarantee so asking really DOES NOT MATTER.
Some of you make mention of how depressing it is to assume that everyone is infected in order to protect yourself. But this isn't to cut ourselves down or to think that your sex partners are always lying to you. It has to do with the simple fact that people have multiple sex partners or have slept with more than one person in the last six months. Unless this person sleeps with just one person and waits 6 mos. for a negative result you never truly do know.
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May 14, 2008 8:57 PM GMT
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Wow!
Muchmorethanmuscle - i have to agree with you on this one - you nailed it!
Sorry guys,
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May 14, 2008 9:49 PM GMT
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Muchmore,
I do see your point. But one person's jackassery (which, as you've mentioned, is also illegal) doesn't not absolve another person of his responsibility.
There is, in fact, a normative issue here that we're discussing. You're correct in that the original topic did not seem to have a normative issue, but in subsequent discussion it's come up, so it needs to be discussed. Normatively speaking, it is better for all if we cultivate a culture of sexual honesty and rationality. A rational response to the information that a person is HIV+ can include one of two things, as far as I see it: an acceptance of that status by the negative person and a willingness to continue to pursue the hookup or relationship, so long as both parties are responsible in practicing safe sex; or an honest response of a negative person that he feels the risk is too high, and a subsequent ability to shut his damn mouth and not go spouting off about another person's status.
Regardless of the how a positive person has come to the situation he's in, the fact is that because he now has a disease that he can spread to another person means that he should be responsible by informing possible sexual partners of his status. A HIV+ person may have to give up his former habits if he fears rejection based on his status, just as a person who is afraid of contracting something may need to give up his habits. If a positive or negative person fears either rejection or fears having sex with people who are positive, perhaps he should try dating a person for a while before sleeping with him. Otherwise, there's still a responsibility and a possibility of rejection that should be expected. Both positive and negative people have a responsibility to their sexual partners.
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May 14, 2008 10:19 PM GMT
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I just discovered last night that a good friend of mine has AIDS. He looked like he was afraid that we wouldn't accept him anymore. Instead of being his normal self, he hung back. We all engaged him and welcomed him back to the bar after more than a month. He looks horrible. He must have lost half his body weight.
He couldn't stay long and he and his partner left but I just had to make it a point to give him a close embrace and a kiss on the cheek to let him know he is still loved at our bar.
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May 15, 2008 11:06 PM GMT
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Sure that's fine. Date a bit, don't rush into the sack. I think it's completely asinine to bed a stranger so quickly yet expect your partner to divulge medical information that makes him vulnerable. HIV and STDs aside, you don't know much about the person you're dealing with. This person could be a serial killer, God forbid.
I know of one guy on manhunt that is hiv+ yet on his profile he says he's negative. He always uses condoms. As long as he's not exchanging bodily fluids in any way I don't think what he is doing is wrong.
In contrast, I know of another guy that is hiv+. He also states in his manhunt profile that he is negative. The difference, unfortunately, is that he will readily have bareback sex and actually encourages it. I think this is seriously malevolent.
I personally don't think I have a right to someone's private medical information just because I bed them once and have nothing more to do with them. Think of all the people you might have slept with yet never knew or forgot their first name. It's so difficult for me to comprehend that these people "demand" to know other people's hiv status before they even get a first name. That was what my manhunt experience was all about for me. I'd get emails that went like this, "negative or positive?" and they'd say nothing more. It was all they cared about. If any of you are concerned about hiv infection then stop parading around like a bunch of closeted hoochies and HOs. Those that act so self righteous about another person's actions yet they themselves are so quick to put out. Such incongruent actions can't be taken seriously. It really is laughable.
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May 16, 2008 2:56 AM GMT
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Best to assume everyone is positive till you really get to know them and always play safe. I know of a few people on manhunt that ARE positive ...and they've told me ...but now change their profiles to say negative.
Also, just because they were tested doesn't mean they haven't contracted anything since the test OR the test could have been wrong. Just play smart and educate yourself on the subject.
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May 16, 2008 3:16 AM GMT
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redheadguy saidWell, I used condoms. I always use them, it just freaks me out when guys lie. First things first...it's going to be a hard life if you freak out when someone lies...not to sound like a pessimist [because in actuality I am an "optimistic realist]...but there are tons of things that build barriers to people being honest...I mean it would be great if everyone could sit folks down and easily say the hard things in life...but for most of us it's hard to do the right thing all the time... Are you annoyed and angry at him or yourself? Deciding when to disclose [anything difficult in life much less HIV status] is a very personal decision...and although you may have some ideas about when that should have happened, you aren't him...and I didn't hear you really ask him about it in your initial message... Although there is legislation on the books about disclosing HIV status to partner who may be at risk...he may have thought: 1. His profile was his disclosure to the world. And assumed you saw that information. 2. You weren't at risk if you were using condoms all the time. 3. Or maybe he wasn't positive at first and then was tested and changed on his facebook. Don't get me wrong, I understand why you might be annoyed and angry, but right now, you don't have any good information about his intentions...so you have to decide whether it is worth your time and energy to ask him OR let it go...and use this experience later in life... - David |
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May 16, 2008 3:23 AM GMT
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The first question I ask anyone who tries to make out with me is "So, do you have any diseases?"
It's really funny to see them get caught off guard and fumble a bit, but so far no one has said yes, so I bet some are not telling the truth.
If I were you I'd get tested, and if I was negative I'd just let him know in a brief message that he's an asshole. If I was pos, I'd probably become friendly with him to get close to his personal life, kill all his loved ones, then him.
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May 16, 2008 3:23 AM GMT
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redheadguy saidAsking is the hardest part. Well, I'm just reading through the rest of the threads..."asking" is the hardest part?  Come on...let's talk about bringing up the subject when you ARE HIV positive...don't know the other guy's status...and you know you need to say something... ...talk about fear of rejection... ...I think it would almost be easier for me to disclose if someone did bring it up first, but most of the guys I have dated...don't...and then I am stuck with my own ethics...which make me bring up the conversation... - David |
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May 16, 2008 3:53 AM GMT
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twentyfourhourslater saidWow!
Muchmorethanmuscle - i have to agree with you on this one - you nailed it!
Sorry guys,
Where is the ass kissing emoticon when you need one!!!  |
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May 16, 2008 5:42 AM GMT
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I let this one go on May 11.
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May 16, 2008 5:52 AM GMT
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Rune saidThe first question I ask anyone who tries to make out with me is "So, do you have any diseases?"
It's really funny to see them get caught off guard and fumble a bit, but so far no one has said yes, so I bet some are not telling the truth. What a jerk...... To take pleasure in manipulating a situation and throwing someone off guard for your amusement. Yeah I myself have a disease. I've talked about it with my doctor and so far there's no name for it but I can describe it. In brief, when confronted with a total idiot I bitch slap his ass uncontrollably until he shuts up or is unconscious. Then miraculously the symptoms of my disease seem to clear up for the time being and all is well. It's sort of like Tourette's Syndrome. |
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May 16, 2008 5:56 AM GMT
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The only guy who ever asked me whether I "had any diseases" was a young american guy in a sauna. Not sure how anyone is supposed to respond to that. I said yes, I have asthma and I used to have Coeliac disease. That shut him up.
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May 16, 2008 6:09 AM GMT
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It truly is arrogant and off putting to ask a person that. Losers, I mean "users" like Rune are playing these types of games for power. And unfortunately that is what a lot of this is all about. I find nothing wrong with consensual anonymous sex but the reason I now avoid it is because you never or almost never meet quality people this way.
People that asks these types of questions or that take pleasure in watching someone stumble are people I don't want to even sit next to on the bus let alone have sex with.
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May 16, 2008 1:39 PM GMT
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No actually I ask them because I don't want to catch any STDs they might have, not just HIV. Why is it OK to ask about HIV and not other STDs? I'm not sure how I qualify as a user since I've never had random sex / one-night stands, and only had sex with a whole 2 guys in my entire life, both of which I've been and continue to be friends with. Geez, some people are so touchy  |
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May 16, 2008 1:51 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle saidYeah I myself have a disease. I've talked about it with my doctor and so far there's no name for it but I can describe it. In brief, when confronted with a total idiot I bitch slap his ass uncontrollably until he shuts up or is unconscious. Then miraculously the symptoms of my disease seem to clear up for the time being and all is well.
It's sort of like Tourette's Syndrome. ROFL! |
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May 16, 2008 2:51 PM GMT
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redheadguy saidHow do you feel about it? A guy I dated about six months ago recently messaged me on Facebook and he has this information in his profile. WTF?! You're on facebook?!? |
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May 16, 2008 2:52 PM GMT
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redheadguy saidThe big difference is this: his Facebook profile is not a hook-up profile. It's a 'this is who I am, this is what i'm doing profile'. you know what i mean? YAH SEE, DATS WUT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT! |
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May 17, 2008 5:56 PM GMT
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Well...
First I think, as has been said, you should always assume the person is poz. Even if he says he's neg. you don't know what happened since his test. You don't know if he's lying or if he just plain never has been tested and has no idea.
Second, I personally don't even ask becuase as I said they may not know the answer or they might lie so I just do the safe thing and leave it at that without exception.
Third, if you are gonna ask, ask it in a non judgmental way. If you go up to someone and ask "ARE YOU CLEAN?" What the fuck do you expect them to say? I mean you have just made a poz person out to be DIRTY.
Fourth, if you ask someone and they say they are neg. are you gonna have unsafe sex based on the word of a stranger?
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May 17, 2008 7:05 PM GMT
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Like everyone else has said - Always assume they are poz. Don't even waste time asking the question because there are a THOUSAND REASONS why you can't put one bit of stock in any answer they give.
The only valid purpose behind even bringing the question up is if you intended to date the person long term.
Always play safe - none of this "r u ok? alright lets f-k bare then" BS.
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May 17, 2008 7:52 PM GMT
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One thing I wanted to mention, to those saying that having unprotected sex if you have HIV is a criminal or felonious act, first:
It depends upon the state's laws, and second:
At least here in California, you must PROVE that the POZ person DELIBERATELY INTENDED to pass the virus on to his/her partner for the purpose of infecting them. If a POZ person has sex with a neg person, and believes that NEG person to be POZ, or even assumes that the neg partner is going in with both eyes open, (such as if the NEG person says, "I only want to do it bareback to you." and fails to ask the partner if he's POZ) then the courts will have a very tough time prosecuting that person, otherwise our jails would be filled with those who had simply made a judgement error in not informing or not asking.
On the other side of the coin, if someone takes a POZ person's info, name, image, address, etc., and broadcasts on the web, in the paper, using flyers, or in person, to strangers about that POZ person's status, especially if they're doing it out of pique or spite, they will very likely find themselves held liable in court, and more than likely will be found guilty.
Now, if you ask me my status, you'll ALWAYS get the truth: I'm POZ. I've put it up on my IMDB profile, and I also wear dogtags around my neck that say "AIDS Patient" but frankly, there have been a few times where I have not informed someone of my status, but I was also doing things that would not be as unsafe to my partner as if I wanted to top them. I am a bottom, and a self-admitted slut. I have bath house sex, I have no attachments at this time in my life, and I, like som |
