Does anyone else read books/blog articles by Greg Boyd (theologian) ?

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    Sep 09, 2011 4:25 PM GMT
    and if so, do you find them inspiring? Or do you, like me, often think it's all too good to be true?
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    Sep 09, 2011 10:24 PM GMT
    It's much ado about nothing in my opinion. My cousin loves his books, I've read a couple.
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    Sep 10, 2011 12:59 AM GMT
    being saidand if so, do you find them inspiring? Or do you, like me, often think it's all too good to be true?


    I have read letter from a skeptic. I found it quite a solid exposition.
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    Sep 10, 2011 12:55 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    being saidand if so, do you find them inspiring? Or do you, like me, often think it's all too good to be true?


    I have read letter from a skeptic. I found it quite a solid exposition.


    I'm going to read that soon. My first one was, "Is God to Blame?" When I initially saw the title I thought it was so dull. Then I opened the pages and read.

    When I started the book, I had major issues with the God of the bible. When I finished, I was a confirmed Christian.
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    Sep 10, 2011 3:44 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    being saidand if so, do you find them inspiring? Or do you, like me, often think it's all too good to be true?


    I have read letter from a skeptic. I found it quite a solid exposition.


    Agreed. Open theology makes everything seem to make sense, I read these when starting to leave Christianity. However, it was not enough for my inner battle between religion, homosexuality, origin of the universe, etc. and atheism is where I've found myself.
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    Sep 11, 2011 9:21 AM GMT
    jude114 said
    Blackguy4you said
    being saidand if so, do you find them inspiring? Or do you, like me, often think it's all too good to be true?


    I have read letter from a skeptic. I found it quite a solid exposition.


    Agreed. Open theology makes everything seem to make sense, I read these when starting to leave Christianity. However, it was not enough for my inner battle between religion, homosexuality, origin of the universe, etc. and atheism is where I've found myself.


    I have a sickening feeling I'm about to lose that very battle. icon_sad.gif

    They're right... The death of faith is a bit like losing a person you love
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    Sep 11, 2011 9:24 PM GMT
    being said
    jude114 said
    Blackguy4you said
    being saidand if so, do you find them inspiring? Or do you, like me, often think it's all too good to be true?


    I have read letter from a skeptic. I found it quite a solid exposition.


    Agreed. Open theology makes everything seem to make sense, I read these when starting to leave Christianity. However, it was not enough for my inner battle between religion, homosexuality, origin of the universe, etc. and atheism is where I've found myself.


    I have a sickening feeling I'm about to lose that very battle. icon_sad.gif

    They're right... The death of faith is a bit like losing a person you love


    It's an experience, and it'll get easier over time, if it does happen to you. I've found I still operate in the same way.. nothing is really different except that you realize no one is watching you. Take it a step at a time and don't lose all morality just because you don't believe in a higher power, most of the morality you have is actually common sense.
  • twilight2010

    Posts: 307

    Sep 12, 2011 5:52 AM GMT
    being said
    Blackguy4you said
    being saidand if so, do you find them inspiring? Or do you, like me, often think it's all too good to be true?


    I have read letter from a skeptic. I found it quite a solid exposition.


    I'm going to read that soon. My first one was, "Is God to Blame?" When I initially saw the title I thought it was so dull. Then I opened the pages and read.

    When I started the book, I had major issues with the God of the bible. When I finished, I was a confirmed Christian.


    When I read this i was like AMEN to that

    Do you know on that day when you became a Christian what the angels of heaven were doing. My brother in Christ according to the Bible they were indeed rejoicing, God was calling for a wonderful party in heaven.

    I pray that the Holy Spirit teaches you wonderful things may you learn wonderful truths from the Holy Word of God. May the Lord God bless you and keep you safe. Now that you are Christian you are on satan target list so you better arm yourself with the Armor of God. It is the only way to withstand the devil. Sadly to say there are many in the world who scoff at God and mock Him but the promise has been made and Jesus will come and when He does these scoffers will beg for mercy but will find none. NOW the door of Mercy is open, when it shuts it is shut.

    Build your faith, read your Bible, The Bible does not condemn homosexuality read it in greek and study hard, you will see. The Bible makes it clear how the earth was made, Christians believe in the 7 day Creation week because it shows the Authority in His Creation the very works of His hands. A person must chose do they follow Christ or Darwin. i choose Jesus. King Jesus.

    The Sabbath commandment contains elements not contained in any of the other commandments.

    It states the name of the Lawgiver (LORD),
    His territory (heaven and Earth),
    and His title (Creator).

    These three components comprise what is known as a seal, and lend authority to the law. The Ten Commandments gain their validity only from the royal seal of the Creator God embodied in the Sabbath commandment.

    By accepting the 7 day week Creation you accept God as Creator. By denying the 7 day week you denie God as Creator.

    The last warning to mankind has been given

    Revelation 6-12, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountain of waters.

    We see the world has been given the everlasting gospel.....and we must Fear God give Glory to Him......for God made heaven and earth and sea.

    I say this with all my heart

    I long for the day when Jesus returns so I can fall down to me knees in His presence and throw down my crown and worship my King day and night. Amen Amen Amen Glory be to God. Jesus is coming. Maranatha

    Amen and God Bless
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    Sep 12, 2011 9:06 AM GMT
    nothing is really different except that you realize no one is watching you.

    I've had out of body experiences in which I understood that the realest thing about reality is what I can only describe as "pure observation" or "awareness". Some people call it Being. But it's beyond labels, and I can get lost in it even when I'm in the body.

    I believe that the man Jesus Christ was tuned into the frequency of that Being and the moral common sense that follows from being aware (or from being tuned into the frequency of awareness). If this weren't so, there wouldn't have been such a hu-ha around him.

    So, you see, no matter how I look at it, Jesus' awareness and consciousness is the "son" of something we can't describe yet. So the bible writers aren't that far off base....
  • Rowing_Ant

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    Sep 12, 2011 9:22 AM GMT
    Have a read of Marcus Borg, Matthew Fox or John Shelby Spong.

    Or if you want something a bit older Emmerson or Theodore Parker "The Transient and Permanent in CHristianity".

    REALLY worthwhile reading. I heartily recommend them.
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    Sep 12, 2011 9:25 AM GMT
    Do you know on that day when you became a Christian what the angels of heaven were doing. My brother in Christ according to the Bible they were indeed rejoicing, God was calling for a wonderful party in heaven.


    Really? I think the angels were going, "Uh-oh, this one wasn't supposed to even hope for salvation," and God was feeling the same way he felt before the "flood" of Genesis -- "The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, 'I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth – men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air – for I am grieved that I have made them.' [NIV]" I think I give God grey hairs.


    I pray that the Holy Spirit teaches you wonderful things may you learn wonderful truths from the Holy Word of God. May the Lord God bless you and keep you safe.


    Thank you, that's very kind. And may He bless you too!

    Now that you are Christian you are on satan target list...


    Lovely. I at least mean something to someone.

    ...So you better arm yourself with the Armor of God. It is the only way to withstand the devil.


    At this point, I need clarification as to what's "of God" and what's "of the devil" so that I can "withstand" the correct enemy and the correct set of impulses. Because everything I understand about the bible tells me that sex outside of heterosexual marriage is impure; it tells me that my impulses, the way I view the world, the way I relate to other men and my boyfriend, is so damnably fallen and beyond redemption (save through a long, hard process of change that may or may not work and leave me psychologically damaged) that God very well wasted His time creating me and giving me the desire to seek Him. Unless it was all a cruel hoax and I'm a "vessel of destruction".


    Build your faith, read your Bible, The Bible does not condemn homosexuality read it in greek and study hard, you will see.


    I've read all the arguments. ALL of them. I am not convinced.

    I've heard people going to the same amount of trouble to justify a whole bunch of other things that the bible condemns.

    The Sabbath commandment contains elements not contained in any of the other commandments.

    It states the name of the Lawgiver (LORD),
    His territory (heaven and Earth),
    and His title (Creator).

    These three components comprise what is known as a seal, and lend authority to the law. The Ten Commandments gain their validity only from the royal seal of the Creator God embodied in the Sabbath commandment.

    By accepting the 7 day week Creation you accept God as Creator. By denying the 7 day week you denie God as Creator.


    That's a bit like creating a theological doorway around Revelation 3:7, for example, where Jesus is described as "He who holds the key of David" and saying that unless someone believes who Jesus is "revealed" to be (He who literally holds the key of David) then you will not be saved. Theology is flexible enough to allow this distortion, unfortunately.

    The last warning to mankind has been given.


    Chilling, because I believe that it's true that man has it coming to him.
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    Sep 12, 2011 9:28 AM GMT
    Rowing_Ant saidHave a read of Marcus Borg, Matthew Fox or John Shelby Spong.

    Or if you want something a bit older Emmerson or Theodore Parker "The Transient and Permanent in CHristianity".

    REALLY worthwhile reading. I heartily recommend them.


    Will do.
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    Sep 12, 2011 4:34 PM GMT
    Every man, straight or gay, has fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus leveled the playing field by qualifying those who believe in his redemptive work to be restored to favor with God. The key word is "believe". We qualify because of Christ work of righteousness for us, not because we are good enough in our own righteousness. This is incredibly good news to those who hope for eternal life.
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    Sep 12, 2011 9:31 PM GMT
    being saidnothing is really different except that you realize no one is watching you.

    I've had out of body experiences in which I understood that the realest thing about reality is what I can only describe as "pure observation" or "awareness". Some people call it Being. But it's beyond labels, and I can get lost in it even when I'm in the body.

    I believe that the man Jesus Christ was tuned into the frequency of that Being and the moral common sense that follows from being aware (or from being tuned into the frequency of awareness). If this weren't so, there wouldn't have been such a hu-ha around him.

    So, you see, no matter how I look at it, Jesus' awareness and consciousness is the "son" of something we can't describe yet. So the bible writers aren't that far off base....


    Well, if you can prove that go right ahead... how many other people believe the same thing you do? Search for truth, not what feels good. Ice cream all the time might sound good, but is it good for you?
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    Sep 13, 2011 2:44 PM GMT
    jude114 said
    being saidnothing is really different except that you realize no one is watching you.

    I've had out of body experiences in which I understood that the realest thing about reality is what I can only describe as "pure observation" or "awareness". Some people call it Being. But it's beyond labels, and I can get lost in it even when I'm in the body.

    I believe that the man Jesus Christ was tuned into the frequency of that Being and the moral common sense that follows from being aware (or from being tuned into the frequency of awareness). If this weren't so, there wouldn't have been such a hu-ha around him.

    So, you see, no matter how I look at it, Jesus' awareness and consciousness is the "son" of something we can't describe yet. So the bible writers aren't that far off base....


    Well, if you can prove that go right ahead... how many other people believe the same thing you do? Search for truth, not what feels good. Ice cream all the time might sound good, but is it good for you?


    I can't prove anything exhaustively. Incompleteness runs through everything we know. In a given system, the number of possibilities easily exceeds the number of "provabilities". So I can't prove what I'm saying in one fell swoop. That doesn't mean it's not possibly true.

    How many people believe this? More than you and I could keep track of, that's how many.

    Am I just looking to eat ice cream all the time? I like that question.

    What I'm trying to do is find a healthy and acceptable balance between what is objectively true and what feels good to me subjectively.

    Both sides are important for a meaningful life.

    You see, if your wants and desires don't count, then there's no reason for your existence. Without the possibility of novelty the universe could have functioned mechanically without your input. "God" really didn't need you unless an accessment truth that came from you individually was required for the universe to fulfil its purpose, whatever that purpose is.

    In fact, since "God" didn't need to create any of us, it follows that novelty and plain old fun are a deeply important aspect of being. And if God did need to create us, then it must understand that by creating me one way and not another (whether this was a direct creation, or an indirect one; i.e. God generally creates a universe that could spawn someone like me), it was choosing to encounter and use a certain set of strengths, weaknesses and personal quirks.

    In other words, my wanting and eating ice cream in moderation does not take the universe by surprise. In fact and to a degree, my desiring and enjoying some amount of ice cream is absolutely fundamental to the overall good of the universe.

    On the other hand, there are transcendent truths that predate my existence. I ignore them at my own peril. But those transcendent truths enfold and embrace my own personal experiences to some extent. In fact, those transcendent truths are the superstructure that supports and enables the search for meaning, love, sacredness, truth and -- well, fun!

    In other words, my existence is about a being interacting with Being itself. And if the experience will be a whole, meaningful one, then I will be required to admit my desire for and enjoy ice cream. In moderation.

    Christianity is the meeting point of absolute divine transcendence and relative human finitude. Or so I think. In a sense, it's an attempt to find a balance between living for a holy God who demands everything of us, whose love and passion could stifle us -- and being ourselves with our desires, some holy, some unholy, and some just plain old weird.

    The mystery is this: where do we locate that balance? How? Christianity, in a sense, is about the tension between spirit and flesh. But for some people, the tension becomes too tense, harmony disappears and they can't live with themselves. For other people, the tension is non-existent and there's no difference between them and everyone else in the world.

    Christianity is not an answer; it's a question. That question is, "Where is the correct balance located?"

    Our lives are our answer to that question.

    Judgment is God's opinion of our answer.
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    Sep 14, 2011 3:29 AM GMT
    being said
    jude114 said
    being saidnothing is really different except that you realize no one is watching you.

    I've had out of body experiences in which I understood that the realest thing about reality is what I can only describe as "pure observation" or "awareness". Some people call it Being. But it's beyond labels, and I can get lost in it even when I'm in the body.

    I believe that the man Jesus Christ was tuned into the frequency of that Being and the moral common sense that follows from being aware (or from being tuned into the frequency of awareness). If this weren't so, there wouldn't have been such a hu-ha around him.

    So, you see, no matter how I look at it, Jesus' awareness and consciousness is the "son" of something we can't describe yet. So the bible writers aren't that far off base....


    Well, if you can prove that go right ahead... how many other people believe the same thing you do? Search for truth, not what feels good. Ice cream all the time might sound good, but is it good for you?


    I can't prove anything exhaustively. Incompleteness runs through everything we know. In a given system, the number of possibilities easily exceeds the number of "provabilities". So I can't prove what I'm saying in one fell swoop. That doesn't mean it's not possibly true.

    How many people believe this? More than you and I could keep track of, that's how many.

    Am I just looking to eat ice cream all the time? I like that question.

    What I'm trying to do is find a healthy and acceptable balance between what is objectively true and what feels good to me subjectively.

    Both sides are important for a meaningful life.

    You see, if your wants and desires don't count, then there's no reason for your existence. Without the possibility of novelty the universe could have functioned mechanically without your input. "God" really didn't need you unless an accessment truth that came from you individually was required for the universe to fulfil its purpose, whatever that purpose is.

    In fact, since "God" didn't need to create any of us, it follows that novelty and plain old fun are a deeply important aspect of being. And if God did need to create us, then it must understand that by creating me one way and not another (whether this was a direct creation, or an indirect one; i.e. God generally creates a universe that could spawn someone like me), it was choosing to encounter and use a certain set of strengths, weaknesses and personal quirks.

    In other words, my wanting and eating ice cream in moderation does not take the universe by surprise. In fact and to a degree, my desiring and enjoying some amount of ice cream is absolutely fundamental to the overall good of the universe.

    On the other hand, there are transcendent truths that predate my existence. I ignore them at my own peril. But those transcendent truths enfold and embrace my own personal experiences to some extent. In fact, those transcendent truths are the superstructure that supports and enables the search for meaning, love, sacredness, truth and -- well, fun!

    In other words, my existence is about a being interacting with Being itself. And if the experience will be a whole, meaningful one, then I will be required to admit my desire for and enjoy ice cream. In moderation.

    Christianity is the meeting point of absolute divine transcendence and relative human finitude. Or so I think. In a sense, it's an attempt to find a balance between living for a holy God who demands everything of us, whose love and passion could stifle us -- and being ourselves with our desires, some holy, some unholy, and some just plain old weird.

    The mystery is this: where do we locate that balance? How? Christianity, in a sense, is about the tension between spirit and flesh. But for some people, the tension becomes too tense, harmony disappears and they can't live with themselves. For other people, the tension is non-existent and there's no difference between them and everyone else in the world.

    Christianity is not an answer; it's a question. That question is, "Where is the correct balance located?"

    Our lives are our answer to that question.

    Judgment is God's opinion of our answer.


    I had a real long response prepared and the realjock server went down... so I'm going to paraphrase.

    You need Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit.

    Also you sound like you're repeating everything your Sunday school teacher told you.

    Once you get a grip on how flawed your subjectivity and feelings are you will never want to trust them. Use only objective thought.
  • twilight2010

    Posts: 307

    Sep 14, 2011 7:11 AM GMT
    nshapenfit saidEvery man, straight or gay, has fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus leveled the playing field by qualifying those who believe in his redemptive work to be restored to favor with God. The key word is "believe". We qualify because of Christ work of righteousness for us, not because we are good enough in our own righteousness. This is incredibly good news to those who hope for eternal life.


    Amen to this

    This is the gift of eternal life to all who accept it. But those that dont the wages of sin is death. We are all sinners and even our good deeds are like filthy rags. When we come to Jesus we are made righteous and we are given the white robes of His grace.
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    Sep 14, 2011 2:23 PM GMT
    donovan1979 said
    nshapenfit saidEvery man, straight or gay, has fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus leveled the playing field by qualifying those who believe in his redemptive work to be restored to favor with God. The key word is "believe". We qualify because of Christ work of righteousness for us, not because we are good enough in our own righteousness. This is incredibly good news to those who hope for eternal life.


    Amen to this

    This is the gift of eternal life to all who accept it. But those that dont the wages of sin is death. We are all sinners and even our good deeds are like filthy rags. When we come to Jesus we are made righteous and we are given the white robes of His grace.


    AMEN!
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    Sep 14, 2011 2:23 PM GMT
    jude114 said
    being said
    jude114 said
    being saidnothing is really different except that you realize no one is watching you.

    I've had out of body experiences in which I understood that the realest thing about reality is what I can only describe as "pure observation" or "awareness". Some people call it Being. But it's beyond labels, and I can get lost in it even when I'm in the body.

    I believe that the man Jesus Christ was tuned into the frequency of that Being and the moral common sense that follows from being aware (or from being tuned into the frequency of awareness). If this weren't so, there wouldn't have been such a hu-ha around him.

    So, you see, no matter how I look at it, Jesus' awareness and consciousness is the "son" of something we can't describe yet. So the bible writers aren't that far off base....


    Well, if you can prove that go right ahead... how many other people believe the same thing you do? Search for truth, not what feels good. Ice cream all the time might sound good, but is it good for you?


    I can't prove anything exhaustively. Incompleteness runs through everything we know. In a given system, the number of possibilities easily exceeds the number of "provabilities". So I can't prove what I'm saying in one fell swoop. That doesn't mean it's not possibly true.

    How many people believe this? More than you and I could keep track of, that's how many.

    Am I just looking to eat ice cream all the time? I like that question.

    What I'm trying to do is find a healthy and acceptable balance between what is objectively true and what feels good to me subjectively.

    Both sides are important for a meaningful life.

    You see, if your wants and desires don't count, then there's no reason for your existence. Without the possibility of novelty the universe could have functioned mechanically without your input. "God" really didn't need you unless an accessment truth that came from you individually was required for the universe to fulfil its purpose, whatever that purpose is.

    In fact, since "God" didn't need to create any of us, it follows that novelty and plain old fun are a deeply important aspect of being. And if God did need to create us, then it must understand that by creating me one way and not another (whether this was a direct creation, or an indirect one; i.e. God generally creates a universe that could spawn someone like me), it was choosing to encounter and use a certain set of strengths, weaknesses and personal quirks.

    In other words, my wanting and eating ice cream in moderation does not take the universe by surprise. In fact and to a degree, my desiring and enjoying some amount of ice cream is absolutely fundamental to the overall good of the universe.

    On the other hand, there are transcendent truths that predate my existence. I ignore them at my own peril. But those transcendent truths enfold and embrace my own personal experiences to some extent. In fact, those transcendent truths are the superstructure that supports and enables the search for meaning, love, sacredness, truth and -- well, fun!

    In other words, my existence is about a being interacting with Being itself. And if the experience will be a whole, meaningful one, then I will be required to admit my desire for and enjoy ice cream. In moderation.

    Christianity is the meeting point of absolute divine transcendence and relative human finitude. Or so I think. In a sense, it's an attempt to find a balance between living for a holy God who demands everything of us, whose love and passion could stifle us -- and being ourselves with our desires, some holy, some unholy, and some just plain old weird.

    The mystery is this: where do we locate that balance? How? Christianity, in a sense, is about the tension between spirit and flesh. But for some people, the tension becomes too tense, harmony disappears and they can't live with themselves. For other people, the tension is non-existent and there's no difference between them and everyone else in the world.

    Christianity is not an answer; it's a question. That question is, "Where is the correct balance located?"

    Our lives are our answer to that question.

    Judgment is God's opinion of our answer.


    I had a real long response prepared and the realjock server went down... so I'm going to paraphrase.

    You need Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit.

    Also you sound like you're repeating everything your Sunday school teacher told you.

    Once you get a grip on how flawed your subjectivity and feelings are you will never want to trust them. Use only objective thought.


    icon_lol.gif

    (No, really, I am truly laughing)
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    Sep 14, 2011 2:29 PM GMT
    I've never heard of Greg Boyd but I will have to check him out. Another good theologian whose books I have enjoyed reading is John Boswell; although they are written from a usually Catholic perspective, I thoroughly enjoyed them being a Methodist.