"T" in LGBT.

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    May 15, 2008 12:01 AM GMT
    Today I was reading responses to an article Out magazine published concerning trans individuals. I was shocked by what I read. Though some wrote voicing their support for the article, many were outraged that a "gay" magazine had an article about transexuality. Apparently there is an entire segment of the LGB(T) community that does not believe the "T" should be associated with us - I disagree.

    Reading over the letters, I could not help but wonder-if we do not stand with them, who will? So what if they are not necessarily gay, they represent a sexual minority that is fighting for recognition and rights...just like us. Look at the past. We were left behind in the civil rights movement earlier in the century, and we are still fighting for such basic rights as not to be fired from work for being gay (something that can still happen in 31 states - I believe, check hrc.org to be sure). If we turn our back on the trans community or sub-community or whatever it is you want to call it...what hypocrites we would be. Ok, that's my opinion, what are your thoughts?
  • HereNBoston

    Posts: 221

    May 15, 2008 12:12 AM GMT
    That's pretty weird since i've read that other transgendered groups feel left out by the big players like the HRC. they think the HRC doesn't advocate enough for them. which is kinda true.

    personally I agree with you that if we don't watch out for eachother, who will?
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    May 15, 2008 1:41 AM GMT
    That's a bit sad. I don't know about your neck of the woods, but transgendered people in Australia have led the fight for equality for LGB people, and yet are still somewhat left behind in the human rights stakes. I don't know about including T in LGBT so that they're not left out, but I do know that we wouldn't be so well placed without that T.

  • May 15, 2008 2:35 AM GMT
    I can certainly see the argument that the "T" shouldn't be grouped with the GLB community. After all, our particular movement is about sexuality, and the Transgender movement is really about something else. Gender identity is very different from sexual orientation. They operate independently of one another, and any given individual can be at any point on each of those two scales.

    That being said, while I understand that argument, I disagree with it. Because when it comes down to it, we aren't really a "GLBT" Movement, we are an "Other" movement. When it comes to the political side of things, there are those in power, and there are those who are in the "minority." I put minority in quotes because when you add up all the minorities together, we are actually the majority. It's the rich, white, anglo-saxon, protestant, males who are really in the minority. The problem is that those in power have kept us divided from each other. As long as they can do that, they will win.

    And believe me, it's a very effective technique. Just talk to any of the double or triple minorities out there. The African American community in general treats it's GLBT members like shit, and the Hispanic community is even worse.
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    May 15, 2008 2:52 AM GMT
    Well since they don't have an F in it for us fags. We are left out. Not into us being all shoved under the one banner anyways, and when I come back, I'm coming back as a male again. I stand alone, and don't see the connection to the T in the gay community. But as humans we all have a responsibility to animal welfare. After all we a meant to be the Superior species. Thus responsible for the lower, the animals.
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    May 15, 2008 2:55 AM GMT
    When I hear about things like this, I'm saddened. More categories and forced divisions. Worse, the loudest anti-trans forces in the GLBT community are 'straight acting' gay men who're being as reactionary to trans persons as their truly straight counterparts are to them. It's almost like when victims of abuse become abusers as adults. Yuck.
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    May 15, 2008 3:33 AM GMT
    I'm always nice to the T-Girls and Cross Dressers who come into my bar, but most of my friends aren't. They even give me some shit about it once in awhile. This is crazy. The T certainly does belong in the fold. I was so disappointed that ENDA was going to leave them out. Luckily it didn't pass, it was bad enough it tried to throw the Transgendered under the bus. How can any of us be cruel or indifferent to someone like Angel in "RENT"?

    If ever there was a time for unity in the LGB & T community it's right now.




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    May 15, 2008 4:04 AM GMT
    Sexual orientation and sexual identity are not precisely the same thing but there is significant overlap. Evidence the high proportion of "bottoms" to "tops" among self-described "masculine" gay men. The transgendered belong under our LGB umbrella, and I just want to take off both my shoes and "whoop" on anyone who tries to exclude them.
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    May 15, 2008 11:20 AM GMT
    I actually have several freinds that are Trans ( some being cross-dressers to others that are Trans-gendered), and they are without a doubt the most courageous people I know.

    Those that would choose to separate "them" from "us" are the ones that should be kicked from beneath the LGBT "umbrella"

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    May 15, 2008 11:46 AM GMT
    Lapinblanc saidI actually have several freinds that are Trans ( some being cross-dressers to others that are Trans-gendered), and they are without a doubt the most courageous people I know.

    Those that would choose to separate "them" from "us" are the ones that should be kicked from beneath the LGBT "umbrella"

    I definitely agree that trans people are extremely courageous. It's got to be extremely tough for them and I ALWAYS try to support our trans brothers and sisters.
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    May 15, 2008 6:22 PM GMT
    I agree with all that has been said in support of the mutual support between, and the common struggles of, the GLB community and the T community.

    Also, absent some supporting authority, I'm inclined to disagree with the statement: Gender identity is very different from sexual orientation. They operate independently of one another, and any given individual can be at any point on each of those two scales.

    I personally feel that gender identity and sexual orientation may in fact be related, but I'm no expert in the field.

    Charlie
  • irishboxers

    Posts: 357

    May 15, 2008 7:24 PM GMT
    I remember back in the day when it was just GLB -- us, the lesbians, and the bis (even though I don't think the bis actually cared if they were included). Then the "T" got added on and, well, why not? It's an issue of sexuality and sexual identity and we're the only game in town. No one else seems very interested in our or their cause (excepting, of course, CA and MA) so why not let them come aboard. Fine. We'll rearrange some letters so it rolls off the tongue better: LGBT. The lesbians are always out front at the marches, anyway.

    Then someone added the "Q" clan and that's when I think we jumped the shark. That's when we built the Statue of Sexual Libery outside our door and said "bring us your tired, your poor, your sexually persecuted". I get that the "Q" is an extension of the trans community for the people that don't identify with a gender role at all, but come on. LGBTQ?

    I guess I'm in favor of the "T", but I question the "Q" part. At some point, our little acronym will get out of hand and we'll have millions to speak for and no idea what to say.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 15, 2008 7:27 PM GMT
    Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender goes together like:

    Christian, Muslim, Jew, Black

    Hammer, screwdriver, wrench, glove

    Jazz, Pop, Classical, Trumpet

    Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, bicycle

    Waterford, Stueben, Baccarat, Fork

    Grandfather, Uncle, Cousin, pet.

    I think there's a difference between who you want to have sex with and what sex you are. (This brings up the more complicated issue of MTF who wants to be with a woman versus the MTF who wants to be with a man.)
    The only area of overlap to me is the area of suppression and repression.
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    May 15, 2008 9:41 PM GMT
    It does stand for Transgender. However, those who are saying that they should be excluded really don't understand the concept of HRC. Although it really is more of a lobbying group, the purpose of it all is to provide equality for all. Excluding people who are transgender would be a terrible thing to do.

    I don't understand, I never have and I may never. But I don't have to. Love and rights should ALWAYS be unconditional.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    May 15, 2008 9:48 PM GMT
    I thought the T stood for Tim?
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    May 16, 2008 8:08 AM GMT
    mjime003 saidToday I was reading responses to an article Out magazine published concerning trans individuals. I was shocked by what I read. Though some wrote voicing their support for the article, many were outraged that a "gay" magazine had an article about transexuality. Apparently there is an entire segment of the LGB(T) community that does not believe the "T" should be associated with us - I disagree.

    Reading over the letters, I could not help but wonder-if we do not stand with them, who will? So what if they are not necessarily gay, they represent a sexual minority that is fighting for recognition and rights...just like us. Look at the past. We were left behind in the civil rights movement earlier in the century, and we are still fighting for such basic rights as not to be fired from work for being gay (something that can still happen in 31 states - I believe, check hrc.org to be sure). If we turn our back on the trans community or sub-community or whatever it is you want to call it...what hypocrites we would be. Ok, that's my opinion, what are your thoughts?


    I think the gay community treats the B in GLBT the same way, at least in my community they do.
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    May 17, 2008 8:19 AM GMT
    Yes. While I am of the opinion too that gender identity and sexual orientation are 2 different things, this is NOT the time to get into technicalities!

    The Transsexuals have contributed just as much, perhaps more to advancing GLBT acceptance. They are by far the strongest members of GLBT, being constantly ridiculed because their sexual deviance is much more visible than mere homosexuality and bisexuality. And the fight is NOT simply about sexual orientation anyway. It's for EQUALITY.

    Things like this and the g0y movement makes me realize that people really only group together to advance their own agenda, and as soon as they feel one subgroup hinders the rest, they'll drop them off like a hot potato.

    What are we then? Gutless Lipservicing Backstabbers?

    God, what happened to solidarity?
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    Mar 13, 2009 8:47 PM GMT
    I agree with the LGB party, better progress for the group you actually care about than being stuck in a 30-year rut because you think everything is permissible.

    Why the hell do you think the LGBT ORIGINALLY grouped together, huh? To advance their own agenda, else grouping together would be meaningless.