Several flaws to the case for statehood...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 23, 2011 8:24 PM GMT
    1. The Arabs had the chance in 1947 to accept the UN Resolution for the partition of "Palestine" into a Jewish Homeland and an Arab Homeland. The Arabs rejected it, under orders from the Arab League.
    2. The "Palestinian" cause was only born in 1964 with the creation of the PLO by Egyptian President Colonel Nasser.
    3. There is still a clause within the charter of the PLO that does not recognize the State of Israel's right to exist.
    4. How can you live side by side with people that burn your flag?
    5. Ariel Sharon withdraw Israeli's from the Gaza Strip in return for peace; instead they got a ceaseless campaign of rocket attacks.
    6. Both the late King Hussein of Jordan and former PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat admitted that Palestine was in face in Jordan; the original territory laid out in the Balfour Declaration.
    7. The Arabs don't just want statehood; they want Israel to cease to exist; which will never happen.


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    Sep 23, 2011 11:01 PM GMT
    Well here we are today 9-23-2011 and these old talking points have not merit for today, what was done in 47 is water over the damn and has no bearing on todays Request for Statehood. Thats not a flaw and neither is it an issue, since 67' Israel has Occupied Palestinian Territory per the UN even according to Israel and that Occupation is based on pre' 67 lines, 1947 is a non issue.

    The clause you speak of is an old non issue talking point because that was handled years ago as was the Palestinians recognition of Israel. (I am not talking about Hamas fanatics)

    Flag burning is an individual act, not one by Palestine state officials, Israeli's burn a lot of Palestinian stuff, homes, push together olive groves and burn them too and etc.

    What Hamas extremists do and say on their own has no bearing to todays request, they can beat their chests and holler, whine, burn flags or whatever, but you watch the masses will follow peace and Hamas will be left out if they don't join the peace eforts from the West Bank.

    Jordan has no 'horse in this race' regardless of ancient history. Israel has been Occupying Palestinian Territory from 67' lines as determined by the UN and acknowledged by Israel in every negotiation that has ever taken place and while the LIKUD fanatics think the whole of the West Bank belongs to the Israeli Homeland because of some bible story, that is not the way the world in which Israel lives sees it. So that story is a non starter/non issue.

    In times past 'the arabs' have wanted israel to cease to exist. that too is ancient history, the PLO / Abbas has recognized Israel back in Clintons day, not very long again the Arab league offered to Netanyahu to recognize Israel as a group to normalize relations if they would only negotiate a peace with Palestine through Abbas. What was the answer from Netanyahu and Lieberman ? MORE SETTLEMENTS

    Let me tell you a plain and simple truth, not a damn diplomat, not one damn attorney or judge accross this world, would advise some group wanting to make peace with its neighbors to steal from them while in the process of seeking peace. Occupied Territory is the operative phrase here, every inch of ground on the West Bank side of the 67' lines has been historically since 67' considered Occupied Palestinian territory, there never has been a question nor any validation to Palestinians belonging to some Jordan Palestine, it is against international law to take Occupied land for the Occupiers use in building settlements.


    Continuing to build and approve settlements on Occupied Palestinian Territory which is being used to change the 'facts on the ground' by Israel for the sake of gaining strategic land is the express reason Abbas went to the UN. The Settlement building must be stopped for there to be a Palestinian state.


    By the way, I get most of my information and many of my views from Haaretz, Jewish Daily Forward and from reading many other knowledgeable Jewish and Palestinian writers, experts and officials. Read the answers to your concerns from Jewish/Israeli writers on Haaretz and you may come to the same conclusion as many of them have convinced me of, Netanyahu and Liebermans Intransigence in pushing forward stealing land for Settlements is exactly what brought this on. Abbas has made great strides as noted even by Netenyahu himself. He just hates to see the status quo efforts at stalling to give them more time to get all of the west bank, come to an abrupt end.

    Take no offense, I think Israel should live in peace, same as I want to see Palestinians live in peace both on their own homeland. both sides have made mistakes, but this time the far right LIKUDS have gone too far according to the world in which we live, which is shy some 150 of 193 UN members have sided with Palestines, Abbas. No one here that I know of is hoping for Israels destruction, fairness, peace and an end to land theft, is the desired result we Palestinian supporters seek. So why rehash ancient history and actions from both sides that are water over the dam.
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Sep 24, 2011 8:47 AM GMT
    There seems to be some confusion. Palestine is already a state:

    1. the State of Palestine was proclaimed in exile in Algiers on 15 November 1988, when the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) National Council (PNC) adopted the unilateral Palestinian Declaration of Independence.

    see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

    2. Of the 193 member states of the United Nations, 127 (65.8%) have recognized the State of Palestine. Their total population is over 5.2 billion people, equaling 75 percent of the world's population.

    see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine#States_that_have_recognised

    3. The current debate is whether the United Nations will admit Palestine either as a full member, which requires the approval of the U.N. Security Council, or, failing that, the U.N. General Assembly may vote to recognize the State of Palestine, but not as a full member.

    4. The U.N. General Assembly already authorized both an Arab state and a Jewish state in 1947, when it passed United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) [ UNGAR 181 ].

    The resolution noted Britain's planned termination of the British Mandate for Palestine and recommended the partition of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab, with the Jerusalem-Bethlehem area being under special international protection, administered by the United Nations. The resolution included a highly detailed description of the recommended boundaries for each proposed state.

    see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine#Partition_of_Palestine_.281948.29

    5. United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194 was passed on December 11, 1948, near the end of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The resolution expresses appreciation for the efforts of UN Envoy Folke Bernadotte after his assassination by members of the Zionist ultra-nationalist Lehi (group), headed by Yitzhak Shamir. Resolution 194 deals with the situation in the region after the majority of the Palestinian Arab population fled from areas which Israel controlled and the surviving Palestinian Jewish population in Arab-occupied Jerusalem and the West Bank had been expelled by the (Trans)Jordanian Arab Legion. The resolution called for the return of refugees to their homes and defined the role of the U.N. United Nations Conciliation Commission as an organization to facilitate peace in the region.

    see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_194

    6. United Nations General Assembly Resolution 273 admitted Israel to the United Nations on May 11, 1949 after Israel consented to implement other UN resolutions including resolutions 194 and 181.

    see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_273

    7. UNGAR 181 and 194's call for Israel to allow the return of refugees to their homes has never been honored by Israel. In fact, the UNGA has passed a resolution every year since 1948, calling on Israel to obey International law and permit the return of the refugees to their homes.

    ---
    The entire Balfour Declaration reads:

    His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

    see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917

    Note the absence of any mention of "territory being laid out,"

    Note that the Jewish people were not being blessed with a "state," but merely a "national home,"

    Note also that during World War I, the Arabs played a large role in the conquest of Palestine from the Ottoman empire, and the British promised the Arabs that they would get Palestine. Actually, neither the Jews or the Arabs gained sovereignty over Palestine from the British after World War I; the British decided to keep it for themselves for the time being.

    Note the highlighted words: "... it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine ..."




  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 24, 2011 1:33 PM GMT