GAY GUILT

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    Sep 24, 2011 7:40 AM GMT
    Its like Catholic Guilt, or Scrupulosity, but more fabulous..ly terrible! Anybody else know what I'm talking about?

    I feel like I've met some gay people who feel like they have to "make it up" to their family or friends or employers etc, or somehow PROVE that they're worthy and just as much a real man. Like they were born with Original Gayness, i.e. Original Sin of the gay Kind. It just pisses me off sometimes because I want to be like STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT UP TO ME OR APOLOGISE TO YOUR (dad/mom/siblings/friends). You don't owe them anything, you don't need to prove yourself, you don't need to be sorry that you're gay.

    *OK rant Over.* Thank you for listening.icon_eek.gif

    J
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    Sep 24, 2011 1:25 PM GMT
    Gayness isn't a sin. It's like straightness, which is also not a sin.

    Feel guilty over shit that REALLY matters, like why some queers wear pleated pants or choose to be poor.
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    Sep 24, 2011 1:35 PM GMT
    Yeah well.... tell them to go see a therapist icon_smile.gif

    My poor ex still has this issue. He really feels inadequate because he cant "live up to" his brothers and sister who are in hetero relationships, married...and now with a baby on the way. It's rooted in the guilt... he really feels a need to be as "normal" as possible... i.e., find a husband, have kids, have a good job......

    I think he'll be disappointed when he finds out that his mom still isn't going to become all warm and fuzzy about his sexuality, even when he has all those things.

    ...I've tried to explain all this to him.... you can bring a horse to water...... but you cant make it drink.
  • Neurons

    Posts: 537

    Sep 24, 2011 2:07 PM GMT
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    Sep 24, 2011 2:13 PM GMT
    Jeandeau saidIts like Catholic Guilt, or Scrupulosity, but more fabulous..ly terrible! Anybody else know what I'm talking about?

    I feel like I've met some gay people who feel like they have to "make it up" to their family or friends or employers etc, or somehow PROVE that they're worthy and just as much a real man. Like they were born with Original Gayness, i.e. Original Sin of the gay Kind. It just pisses me off sometimes because I want to be like STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT UP TO ME OR APOLOGISE TO YOUR (dad/mom/siblings/friends). You don't owe them anything, you don't need to prove yourself, you don't need to be sorry that you're gay.

    *OK rant Over.* Thank you for listening.icon_eek.gif

    J


    wasn't much of a rant actually
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    Sep 24, 2011 4:18 PM GMT
    Jeandeau saidIts like Catholic Guilt, or Scrupulosity, but more fabulous..ly terrible! Anybody else know what I'm talking about?

    I feel like I've met some gay people who feel like they have to "make it up" to their family or friends or employers etc, or somehow PROVE that they're worthy and just as much a real man. Like they were born with Original Gayness, i.e. Original Sin of the gay Kind. It just pisses me off sometimes because I want to be like STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT UP TO ME OR APOLOGISE TO YOUR (dad/mom/siblings/friends). You don't owe them anything, you don't need to prove yourself, you don't need to be sorry that you're gay.

    *OK rant Over.* Thank you for listening.icon_eek.gif

    J
    And the prompt for this is all about??????????
  • mybud

    Posts: 11819

    Sep 24, 2011 6:17 PM GMT
    Dude.... Guilt is self imposed.... In doing so to lessen your potential....Focus on the positive...Treat others with the same respect as you have for yourself...Your mindset should be from this point on...."I deserve only good things"...All the best....BUD
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    Sep 24, 2011 6:21 PM GMT
    Jeandeau saidIts like Catholic Guilt, or Scrupulosity, but more fabulous..ly terrible! Anybody else know what I'm talking about?

    I feel like I've met some gay people who feel like they have to "make it up" to their family or friends or employers etc, or somehow PROVE that they're worthy and just as much a real man. Like they were born with Original Gayness, i.e. Original Sin of the gay Kind. It just pisses me off sometimes because I want to be like STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT UP TO ME OR APOLOGISE TO YOUR (dad/mom/siblings/friends). You don't owe them anything, you don't need to prove yourself, you don't need to be sorry that you're gay.

    *OK rant Over.* Thank you for listening.icon_eek.gif

    J


    No no no no no no no no no no no. You have it completely backwards.

    They should make it up to YOU, that the society is oppressing the gays. Straight people owe gay people ok? Not the other way around. Period.

    It's the straight people who should feel guilty. Not gay people.
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    Sep 24, 2011 6:28 PM GMT
    waimea said
    Jeandeau saidIts like Catholic Guilt, or Scrupulosity, but more fabulous..ly terrible! Anybody else know what I'm talking about?

    I feel like I've met some gay people who feel like they have to "make it up" to their family or friends or employers etc, or somehow PROVE that they're worthy and just as much a real man. Like they were born with Original Gayness, i.e. Original Sin of the gay Kind. It just pisses me off sometimes because I want to be like STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT UP TO ME OR APOLOGISE TO YOUR (dad/mom/siblings/friends). You don't owe them anything, you don't need to prove yourself, you don't need to be sorry that you're gay.

    *OK rant Over.* Thank you for listening.icon_eek.gif

    J


    No no no no no no no no no no no. You have it completely backwards.

    They should make it up to YOU, that the society is oppressing the gays. Straight people owe gay people ok? Not the other way around. Period.

    It's the straight people who should feel guilty. Not gay people.


    The @OP is the one who said "STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT UP TO ME OR APOLOGIZE TO YOUR (dad/mom/siblings/friends)." He's talking about people who think that way.
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    Sep 24, 2011 6:33 PM GMT
    Trollileo saidI think if I were straight I'd be working just as hard to be a better human than everyone else just as much. Except being gay makes me feel like I have to compensate by being awesome at everything I do.


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    Sep 24, 2011 6:50 PM GMT
    I think it's normal for any minority group to feel the need to go that extra mile to "prove" themselves to the majority. It happens all the time: the black/brown kid in a predominantly white school, the woman in a male-dominated career setting, etc. There's nothing particularly wrong with it in and of itself. If it motivates some people to be the best they can be, I say good for them.
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    Sep 24, 2011 6:55 PM GMT
    Jeandeau saidIts like Catholic Guilt, or Scrupulosity, but more fabulous..ly terrible! Anybody else know what I'm talking about?

    I feel like I've met some gay people who feel like they have to "make it up" to their family or friends or employers etc, or somehow PROVE that they're worthy and just as much a real man. Like they were born with Original Gayness, i.e. Original Sin of the gay Kind. It just pisses me off sometimes because I want to be like STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT UP TO ME OR APOLOGISE TO YOUR (dad/mom/siblings/friends). You don't owe them anything, you don't need to prove yourself, you don't need to be sorry that you're gay.

    *OK rant Over.* Thank you for listening.icon_eek.gif

    J

    The guilt comes from the values of others, not really from ourselves. It may be related to why guys of small physical stature over-assert themselves, because of the way taller society sometimes disses & dismisses them.

    A repeat of a story. When I came out, literally in a day, I was at first horrified. Not even a year out of the Army, I carried nothing but negative stereotypes about gays. Bad, evil, perverted freaks. Not that I was ever actively homophobic, but neither was it anything I wanted to be myself.

    But I had finally come to grips with the undeniable evidence of my sexuality, and could no longer ignore it. Then I finally thought to myself: wait a minute, I already know I'm a good & decent person, no matter what others say, that hasn't changed by this self-realization. I'm the same guy I always was. Therefore, others must be wrong about gays. My self-confidence really is that strong.

    And I immediately set out, I mean literally the very next night, to learn about the gay community I now intended to join. I attended the largest annual gay gala in all of Seattle, by fortunate coincidence that Friday. I do not mess around once I've made-up my mind. I attended that huge gala, and I never turned back, and never regretted it.

    Gay guilt is indeed a problem. It's why we have Gay Pride. Though many fixate on certain excesses of some of the celebrations, the basic premise remains valid, even if the execution can leave something to be desired, as even I will agree.

    Bottom line: I am proud to be gay, it is my special gift, and I will never have guilt about it. Not to myself, and not to anybody.
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    Sep 24, 2011 7:14 PM GMT
    wildtype87 said If it motivates some people to be the best they can be, I say good for them.

    I agree with this. (although admittedly this is different from the OP's complaint about apologizing to family).

    When women were gaining accpetance in an all-male working world do ya think they said "I got nothing to prove so I'm slacking off."?
  • trainhard2011

    Posts: 231

    Sep 24, 2011 7:17 PM GMT
    Art Deco = Amazing.
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    Sep 24, 2011 8:59 PM GMT
    Beaux said
    wildtype87 said If it motivates some people to be the best they can be, I say good for them.

    I agree with this. (although admittedly this is different from the OP's complaint about apologizing to family).


    In some ways it's different, but it's still the same (at least in the context of my life, personally). I guess this is just a cultural difference, but coming from a traditional Asian (Filipino) background, it's expected that family comes first at the expense of individuality.

    The family unit provides for the individual, and the individual is expected to contribute back to the family unit. This usually means upholding the family reputation, continuing the family line, and providing for the family. Combine the social stigma of being gay with the fact that you cannot biologically produce children with your partner, and you've effectively killed two out of three of your contributions to the family. So what's left to contribute? A high-status and/or high-paying career (ie. being the best you can be).

    I saw this happening all the time with a lot of gay guys in college, particularly those from non-American families. Hell, I do it too. Admittedly, I originally started graduate school to "soften the blow", so to speak, when I eventually come out to my parents. The reasoning in my head at the time was something along the lines of "They'll be disappointed that I'm gay, but having a PhD would prevent them from losing all respect for me."
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    Sep 24, 2011 9:05 PM GMT
    Guilt is the #1 thing you can do to yourself (yes, self-inflicted) to ruin your life.

    If you feel inadequate for not living up to other peoples' standards then that is your own damned fault. I personally don't know anyone who feels like they are at fault for being gay thus inflicting a guilty conscience upon themselves.

    This is just preposterous.
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    Sep 24, 2011 9:15 PM GMT
    The last person who was successful in playing the gay guilt card on me was my mother when I came out to her many moons ago. Because she was my mom, and because I so longed for her acceptance, I allowed her to take the upper hand with me and make me feel guilty for being the person I was (which was a perfectly fine human being). I tolerated it for about a year before I stopped being apologetic for who I was, and started being apologetic to others for her backward viewpoint.

    Mom's since came around, and we enjoy the same strained mother/son/you-don't-call-enough/let-me-tell-you-about-my-goiter relationship that most everyone else has.

    Don't ever let anyone make you feel guilty about being gay.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4862

    Sep 24, 2011 9:45 PM GMT
    Many years ago, when I lived in another city, I established the local chapter of Integrity, which is the national organization for gay men and women in the Episcopal Church. It quickly became obvious that many members did not want to be accepted; they felt that rejection as proper and just punishment for their "sinful" condition. They felt threatened by all proposals to take action to enable church members to have greater understanding of what it meant to be gay, the problems resulting from societal rejection, and how misinterpreting the Bible was destructive to gay persons.

    Fortunately, things have changed since then. The biggest single event that changed attitudes in the Episcopal Church was the distribution of a book entitled, A Book of Revelations at the General Convention, which is the ruling body of the Episcopal Church. The book consisted of real-life self-written stories of a number of gay men and women that showed how being gay had affected their lives. The stories made it very clear that being gay was not a matter of choice. Once the deputies at the General Convention understood that, the course of the Convention was changed. Since then, there has been growing acceptance of gay persons in the Episcopal Church, approval of committed same-sex relations, and approval of the ordination of gay persons in committed relationships.
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    Sep 24, 2011 9:52 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidLearn to "own" the person you are. Never apologies for the type of person you are.


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    Sep 24, 2011 9:56 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidThat animated gif is so large it's taking forever to load on my computer.

    I have no idea what it implies because it looks like a still image.


    Sorry it's an "I like you" with Karen Walker attitude.
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    Sep 24, 2011 10:23 PM GMT
    I don't feel guilty but oftentimes, I do feel the weight of disproving stereotypes and in my case, the stereotypes of 2 minority groups. And honestly, there are so many gays and blacks who fall squarely within the stereotypes that I don't really get mad at people for making assumptions anymore. I deal with it by building relationships and finding commonalities with people so they don't care about whatever classifications I fall into. It has opened a lot of doors for me.
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    Sep 25, 2011 12:52 AM GMT
    Haha I always love seeing where threads go and how people interpret questions/comments etc.

    I'm not saying I HAVE GAY GUILT as some people seemed to assume, just saying I've witnessed people who seem to express this phenomenon.. And yes, I guess if it does lead you to be a "better" person then so be it, but a question I always have, which may seem unrelated, but think about it: At what point does selflessness actually become SELFISHNESS? It's a fine line.

    But I'm loving all the feedback! Some good stories etc. here.
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    Sep 25, 2011 1:28 AM GMT
    I feel incredibly guilty for being gay. Some say it's because I haven't accepted myself, but I have. It's a feeling of inadequacy and having to prove myself. I blame the homophobic household I was raised in. Having been hearing homophobic comments since I was little has to do something to my mental state.
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    Sep 25, 2011 4:01 AM GMT
    @ Jeandeau

    As others have already said, until we have achieved full equality we, unfortunately, have the task of going the extra mile to prove ourselves. This requires many different battles and a lot of shattering of ignorance.
    Basically, we have to prove that we are no different than the straight community in most respects but that doesn't necessarily mean presenting a false persona. It just means putting it into perspective so that they may understand the parallels involved. Perhaps where you see guilt, others see as a very complex and complicated scenario especially if the person was raised in a strict household.

    I know that ever since I came out to my dad, for instance, I have had to work very hard in fighting a lot of ignorant views he once had. I never outright apologized for my life and the choices I have made regarding my sexuality but I have tried to put it into context that he would understand. I have had to bring the information to him on several LGBT related subjects. Now he is better informed and less judgmental.

    I think you have a point though if the gay person outs himself/herself, and then starts apologizing for just being who they are because they really shouldn't. For instance, if they are showing affection with whomever they are dating in front of a relative who doesn't want to see it, they shouldn't have to apologize for that behavior and action (unless it's blatantly sexual versus kissing or holding hands).

    As far as general guilt over being gay, well getting over that is different for each person depending on what people and elements they have had to face in their life. You can't expect everyone to be as open, proud, or unapologetic as you are just because you have become comfortable. Takes time.

    I think it is great though when you come out to someone who only knows what they see on TV and you don't match it at all because it's like you can see the gears turning in their head but they don't know what to make of it and you just know that they are dealing with a very good reality check. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 25, 2011 4:02 AM GMT
    Its not their fault its the community fault .. they make us feel like this bah