REPUBLICANS AND GAY RIGHTS

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    Sep 26, 2011 11:55 PM GMT
    How will the Republican party advance gay rights if a GOP candidate is elected in 2012?
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Sep 27, 2011 1:00 AM GMT
    catfish5 saidHow will the Republican party advance gay rights if a GOP candidate is elected in 2012?



    If the nominee is Jon Huntsman (and I wouldn't count him out just yet) the administration could become quite gay-friendly. I wouldn't expect a whole lot of support for "gay marriage", but I do think that a "Gay Civil Union" bill that comes with all the rights & privileges of marriage is a very real possibility. You can bet that there will be no rolling back the repeal of DADT with a Huntsman administration.

    Besides that, who knows what the GOP will do to advance gay rights. There are so many far more pressing issues to tackle in this country at the present time that I suspect that "Gay Rights" in not at the forefront of most of Americans minds.
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    Sep 27, 2011 1:06 AM GMT
    catfish5 saidHow will the Republican party advance gay rights if a GOP candidate is elected in 2012?



    Oh my God.....I'm glad I wasn't sitting down when I read this....I would have fallen off my chair! icon_lol.gificon_eek.gificon_lol.gif
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    Sep 27, 2011 1:24 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    catfish5 saidHow will the Republican party advance gay rights if a GOP candidate is elected in 2012?

    If the nominee is Jon Huntsman (and I wouldn't count him out just yet) the administration could become quite gay-friendly.

    But what you answered isn't the question. How will the Republican PARTY advance gay rights?

    The correct answer is that, in accordance with its official national party platform, the statements of its key leaders, and its past performance record, it will oppose gay rights with all its might. And attempt to impose Draconian measures against gays.

    If a Republican takes the White House, surely the Congress will also become completely Republican. What a Republican Administration does, per your answer, will hardly matter. A Republican President would have to veto legislative measures from his own party. Would any Repub do that for the sake of gay rights? Impossible.
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    Sep 27, 2011 1:31 AM GMT
    catfish5 saidHow will the Republican party advance gay rights if a GOP candidate is elected in 2012?
    About as much as a brake pedal advances a vehicle forward.
    Ya know, those Gay Old Perverts don't want their boytoys coming out of the closet and outing them.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Sep 27, 2011 1:37 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    The correct answer is that, in accordance with its official national party platform, the statements of its key leaders, and its past performance record, it will oppose gay rights with all its might. And attempt to impose Draconian measures against gays.



    Well, you go right ahead living in your little world of delusional pessimism. But, the fact of the matter is that there really is no "correct answer" because no one has a crystal ball and no one can any more tell what the Republican party will do in 2012 to advance gay rights than they can tell what the Democratic Party will do. I'm hoping for the best and remaining optimistic, knowing full well that "Gay Rights" are understandably NOT at the top of most Americans priority list at the moment.
  • Mepark

    Posts: 806

    Sep 27, 2011 2:12 AM GMT
    They won't advance it at all, but they won't or at least won't be able to set it back either. So it won't be the end of the world. But Obama will win.
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    Sep 27, 2011 2:46 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Art_Deco said
    The correct answer is that, in accordance with its official national party platform, the statements of its key leaders, and its past performance record, it will oppose gay rights with all its might. And attempt to impose Draconian measures against gays.

    Well, you go right ahead living in your little world of delusional pessimism. But, the fact of the matter is that there really is no "correct answer" because no one has a crystal ball and no one can any more tell what the Republican party will do in 2012 to advance gay rights than they can tell what the Democratic Party will do. I'm hoping for the best and remaining optimistic, knowing full well that "Gay Rights" are understandably NOT at the top of most Americans priority list at the moment.

    You just attempted to predict what Jon Huntsman would do in the White House. But your political predictions are fine, while mine are "delusional" according to you? Because yours are on the Right, and mine are on the Left? Your hypocritical double standards are breathtaking.

    For Huntsman we merely have your guesses, while for Republicans we have the facts of their adopted party platform, their public statements, and above all their track record on gay rights. I have to wonder which of us is the delusional one.

    You say: "Gay Rights" are understandably NOT at the top of most Americans priority list at the moment." But that's really not true, is it? Gay rights ARE at the top of the Republicans' priority, except it's to eliminate those rights, and use gays once again in this next election as a wedge issue, and to energize their base, just like they've done in past elections, most notably in 2004. Hardly a major Republican candidate makes a statement or speech where he or she doesn't denounce gays, no matter what the forum. I presume you do read the news?

    A typical tactic of you Republicans is to begin the personal attacks as soon as you get caught with your ideological pants down. I quote reality, and you attack me with the word "delusional" which is a rather insulting and abusive term. Problem is, you guys keep trying to use the same tricks, over and over again, and members here do begin to see right through them.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Sep 27, 2011 2:59 AM GMT
    If the nominee is Jon Huntsman (and I wouldn't count him out just yet)

    CJ ..... Have you lost your cotton picken mind????

    Jon Huntsman has about as much chance of winning the republican primaries as Barack Obama
    Do you know your own party?
    Your party has been hijacked my man
    To win the republican majority you have to shout GAYS GUNS and FETUSES
    There ain't no room for a thinking candidate anymore ....Praise Jaysus the Lord Almighty icon_cool.gif
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    Sep 27, 2011 3:35 AM GMT
    Art_Deco saidGay rights ARE at the top of the Republicans' priority, except it's to eliminate those rights, and use gays once again in this next election as a wedge issue, and to energize their base, just like they've done in past elections, most notably in 2004. Hardly a major Republican candidate makes a statement or speech where he or she doesn't denounce gays, no matter what the forum. I presume you do read the news?



    So true. I just can't understand why these gay Republicans can't see what's right before their very eyes. It's astounding really. It's like trying to discuss the color blue with someone who's color blind.
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    Sep 27, 2011 3:36 AM GMT
    Really? Another thread about this? Two other threads werent enough?
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Sep 27, 2011 3:39 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    You just attempted to predict what Jon Huntsman would do in the White House. But your political predictions are fine, while mine are "delusional" according to you? Because yours are on the Right, and mine are on the Left? Your hypocritical double standards are breathtaking.


    Feel free to do some research on Jon Huntsman, I was only repeating what he himself has said.

    Art_Deco said
    For Huntsman we merely have your guesses, while for Republicans we have the facts of their adopted party platform, their public statements, and above all their track record on gay rights. I have to wonder which of us is the delusional one.


    Which candidates are you talking about -- ones like Santorum or Bachmann who haven't an ice cube's chance in HELL of winning The White House? Huntsman has said publicly many times that he strongly believes in gay civil unions as well as the equal rights of gays & lesbians. If you're talking about Mitt Romney, you surely mean the same Mitt Romney who as Governor in Massachusetts ordered town clerks to begin issuing gay marriage licenses in May of 2004.

    Art_Deco saidYou say: "Gay Rights" are understandably NOT at the top of most Americans priority list at the moment." But that's really not true, is it? Gay rights ARE at the top of the Republicans' priority, except it's to eliminate those rights, and use gays once again in this next election as a wedge issue, and to energize their base, just like they've done in past elections, most notably in 2004. Hardly a major Republican candidate makes a statement or speech where he or she doesn't denounce gays, no matter what the forum. I presume you do read the news? [/quote]

    Nope, sorry, this is YOU, like so many other gays being self-important, deluding yourselves into thinking that everyone on the right is OUT TO GET THE GAYS. We are not THAT important in the grand scheme of things. Yes, I read the paper every day, and I watch the news, and your assertion that "Hardly a major Republican candidate makes a statement or speech where he or she doesn't denounce gays" is so wildly blown out of proportion and not even close to being true that I can't believe you could even say this and think you would be taken seriously.



    Art_Deco said I quote reality, and you attack me with the word "delusional" which is a rather insulting and abusive term. Problem is, you guys keep trying to use the same tricks, over and over again, and members here do begin to see right through them.


    Your reality is a place that I don't even want to be. It's a land of lions, and tigers, and bears Oh noooo. It's all about exaggeration and melodrama, pessimism and fear-mongering. I ain't buyin' what you're sellin'.
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    Sep 27, 2011 3:41 AM GMT
    Dallasfan824 saidReally? Another thread about this? Two other threads werent enough?



    The Feng Shui of two threads was simply unacceptable. Three is more calming.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Sep 27, 2011 3:48 AM GMT
    Why do I suddenly feel very tired after reading this thread...?

    icon_mad.gif

    Jacking off would be a better use of time, clearly!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Sep 27, 2011 3:48 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidWhy do I suddenly feel very tired after reading this thread...?

    icon_mad.gif

    Jacking off would be a better use of time, clearly!




    Well, DUH! icon_wink.gif
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    Sep 27, 2011 3:50 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidWhy do I suddenly feel very tired after reading this thread...?

    icon_mad.gif

    Jacking off would be a better use of time, clearly!


    I think its safe to say there will be a lot of mutual masterbation in this thread after long.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Sep 27, 2011 3:50 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    HndsmKansan saidWhy do I suddenly feel very tired after reading this thread...?

    icon_mad.gif

    Jacking off would be a better use of time, clearly!




    Well, DUH! icon_wink.gif



    Glad you agree, then lets stop bickering here and all collectively jack off in our respective homes and apartments.


    End of thread... LOL
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Sep 27, 2011 3:52 AM GMT
    Clearly, I need a release icon_wink.gif
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4864

    Sep 27, 2011 3:54 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    catfish5 saidHow will the Republican party advance gay rights if a GOP candidate is elected in 2012?

    If the nominee is Jon Huntsman (and I wouldn't count him out just yet) the administration could become quite gay-friendly.

    But what you answered isn't the question. How will the Republican PARTY advance gay rights?

    The correct answer is that, in accordance with its official national party platform, the statements of its key leaders, and its past performance record, it will oppose gay rights with all its might. And attempt to impose Draconian measures against gays.

    If a Republican takes the White House, surely the Congress will also become completely Republican. What a Republican Administration does, per your answer, will hardly matter. A Republican President would have to veto legislative measures from his own party. Would any Repub do that for the sake of gay rights? Impossible.


    Unfortunately, you are probably right. However, that is not a true conservative position. A truly conservative party would seek to minimize government control over individuals and would not oppose gay rights. Of course, the Republican party is not really conservative; in misappropriating the term "conservative," it has twisted and distorted the meaning of the word.
  • Alex49

    Posts: 12

    Sep 27, 2011 3:56 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Art_Deco said
    The correct answer is that, in accordance with its official national party platform, the statements of its key leaders, and its past performance record, it will oppose gay rights with all its might. And attempt to impose Draconian measures against gays.



    Well, you go right ahead living in your little world of delusional pessimism. But, the fact of the matter is that there really is no "correct answer" because no one has a crystal ball and no one can any more tell what the Republican party will do in 2012 to advance gay rights than they can tell what the Democratic Party will do. I'm hoping for the best and remaining optimistic, knowing full well that "Gay Rights" are understandably NOT at the top of most Americans priority list at the moment.


    It is not matter of a correct answer but it is a matter of being aware of what the party has done up until now. To blindly think that one moderate Republican can erase all the damage that the right wing of the Republican party has done up to this point is naive and foolish.The problem with the Republican party and the gay community is that their is a significant portion of the gay community that finds their message of fiscal conservatism appealing. We as a community are unfortunately very materialistic and that again unfortunately translates to a significant portion of our community willing to vote our pocket books over our basic human rights. And yes gay rights are not at the top of most Americans priority list, however the religious right continues to push the issue because we let them. We as a community are so complacent and so fractured among economic lines that we allow the moral minority to slip in their agenda of denying our rights while they promise not to raise our taxes. I don't knwo who to be more upset with the gay Republican politicians in the closet who are sleeping with their pages or the Gay Republicans who sadly elected them into office so tehy cna tell us what an abomination we are.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4864

    Sep 27, 2011 4:00 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Art_Deco said
    The correct answer is that, in accordance with its official national party platform, the statements of its key leaders, and its past performance record, it will oppose gay rights with all its might. And attempt to impose Draconian measures against gays.



    Well, you go right ahead living in your little world of delusional pessimism. But, the fact of the matter is that there really is no "correct answer" because no one has a crystal ball and no one can any more tell what the Republican party will do in 2012 to advance gay rights than they can tell what the Democratic Party will do. I'm hoping for the best and remaining optimistic, knowing full well that "Gay Rights" are understandably NOT at the top of most Americans priority list at the moment.


    Actually, the best predictor of future performance is past performance. Thus, considering the past performance of the Republican Party, it is most reasonable to assume that it will continue to obstruct equality for gay men and women.

    Of course there are people in the Republican Party who do support gay rights. In fact, a few of them are very outspoken in their support for gay rights. Unfortunately, they are in a tiny minority because the Republican Party has been taken over by radical reactionaries and fulminating fundamentalists who have their own agendum.

    It is possible that the Republican Party could, at some time in the unforseeable future, change and support gay rights, but one would be ill-advised to hold one's breath.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4864

    Sep 27, 2011 4:06 AM GMT
    Scruffypup said
    Art_Deco saidGay rights ARE at the top of the Republicans' priority, except it's to eliminate those rights, and use gays once again in this next election as a wedge issue, and to energize their base, just like they've done in past elections, most notably in 2004. Hardly a major Republican candidate makes a statement or speech where he or she doesn't denounce gays, no matter what the forum. I presume you do read the news?



    So true. I just can't understand why these gay Republicans can't see what's right before their very eyes. It's astounding really. It's like trying to discuss the color blue with someone who's color blind.


    Perhaps they do see what is before their eyes and, for political reasons, are ignoring it.

    Actually, it is good that there are gay men and women in the Republican party who are working for gay rights. We have a two-party system here in the U.S. of A. If the Log Cabin Republican Club can get even a few Republican candidates to support gay rights, it increases the probability that legislative bodies will vote in favor of gay rights.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Sep 27, 2011 4:13 AM GMT
    FRE0 said

    Actually, the best predictor of future performance is past performance. Thus, considering the past performance of the Republican Party, it is most reasonable to assume that it will continue to obstruct equality for gay men and women.

    Of course there are people in the Republican Party who do support gay rights. In fact, a few of them are very outspoken in their support for gay rights. Unfortunately, they are in a tiny minority because the Republican Party has been taken over by radical reactionaries and fulminating fundamentalists who have their own agendum.

    It is possible that the Republican Party could, at some time in the unforseeable future, change and support gay rights, but one would be ill-advised to hold one's breath.



    I'm not so sure I agree with your statement "the best predictor of future performance is past performance" when relating to gay rights. That may have been true in decades past, but I'm not convinced it still holds true as an accurate predictor. I truly believe that the Republican Party is evolving -- albeit slower than most of us would like -- but evolving nonetheless. These people who paint ALL Republicans as out to get the gays are really simply being short-sighted. The Republican Party has not been "taken over" by anybody. If anything, it's deeply divided within as this party evolves and the growing pains ensue.
  • ivanuri97

    Posts: 87

    Sep 27, 2011 4:17 AM GMT
    I like what you have to say CuriousJockAZ! Jon Huntsman is the best chance for gays if a Republican wins. His centrist position is key! He is more fiscally conservative (which we need) and socially more liberal. I like him best!

    However, I think there are so many other issues that are more important that effect everyone and not just gays that should be addressed first. Yes, gay equality and such are important, but this gay would actually like a job (been unemployed for a while) and tired of seeing my investments on the decline. Obama has not been the savior so many thought he would be. Let me include this, he hasn't done a ton to advance gay issues either, it's only when he is called out on things does he try to do something. Frankly, I don't mind if he is a one-termer.
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    Sep 27, 2011 4:17 AM GMT
    People might say that in these times gay rights are not on top of their list. But change gay rights to human rights (which gay rights fall into) and then ask people.

    I think that in the United States of America human rights should be on top of the list (after all that is what the country is about).