SHOULD ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS RECEIVE INSTATE COLLEGE TUITION RATES?

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    Sep 28, 2011 5:04 PM GMT
    Rick Perry says YES!! And says republicans who dont agree are heartless!!

  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Sep 28, 2011 5:10 PM GMT
    Many Republicans do NOT agree with Rick Perry on this. In fact, I suspect many Americans, regardless of their political party affiliation, don't either
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    Sep 28, 2011 5:13 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidMany Republicans do NOT agree with Rick Perry on this. In fact, I suspect many Americans, regardless of their political party affiliation, don't either


    So you are heartless?
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    Sep 28, 2011 5:16 PM GMT
    I would suggest "brainless" rather than "heartless".

    First thing to consider is that the Instate Tuition Program isn't going to every child of illegal immigrants. THESE KIDS HAVE PROVEN THEMSELVES in both character, discipline and scholastic abilities.

    THESE KIDS ARE A GOOD INVESTMENT. Texas is smart to give this incentive to nurture their best and brightest.

    Big Question: Is this program in any way keeping out equally qualified children of documented Texas residents?
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Sep 28, 2011 5:22 PM GMT
    catfish5 said
    CuriousJockAZ saidMany Republicans do NOT agree with Rick Perry on this. In fact, I suspect many Americans, regardless of their political party affiliation, don't either


    So you are heartless?



    No, I just don't happen to think states should be dangling a carrot like "in state tuition" as a magnet for illegal aliens to come here. Would much rather the state focus on LEGAL aliens in the state who need assistance getting a higher education.
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    Sep 28, 2011 5:26 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    catfish5 said
    CuriousJockAZ saidMany Republicans do NOT agree with Rick Perry on this. In fact, I suspect many Americans, regardless of their political party affiliation, don't either


    So you are heartless?



    No, I just don't happen to think states should be dangling a carrot like "in state tuition" as a magnet for illegal aliens to come here. Would much rather the state focus on LEGAL aliens in the state who need assistance getting a higher education.


    I agree completely. Not heartless in giving priority to Americans. I am a little surprised that the Tea Party seems to give Perry so much leeway on these positions that go against their principles.
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    Sep 28, 2011 5:27 PM GMT
    PresentMind saidI would suggest "brainless" rather than "heartless".

    First thing to consider is that the Instate Tuition Program isn't going to every child of illegal immigrants. THESE KIDS HAVE PROVEN THEMSELVES in both character, discipline and scholastic abilities.

    THESE KIDS ARE A GOOD INVESTMENT. Texas is smart to give this incentive to nurture their best and brightest.

    Big Question: Is this program in any way keeping out equally qualified children of documented Texas residents?


    I agree with Perry on this. It is an investment.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Sep 28, 2011 5:45 PM GMT
    catfish5 said
    I agree with Perry on this. It is an investment.



    I don't disagree with what Perry's "intentions" are on this. What I disagree with is that our good intentions are not more focused on U.S. citizens who more rightly deserve that "investment" rather than people who are here illegally.
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    Sep 28, 2011 5:51 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    catfish5 said
    I agree with Perry on this. It is an investment.



    I don't disagree with what Perry's "intentions" are on this. What I disagree with is that our good intentions are not more focused on U.S. citizens who more rightly deserve that "investment" rather than people who are here illegally.


    So how are Texas residents getting short changed here?
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    Sep 28, 2011 5:52 PM GMT
    And that's why Rick Perry is full of shit when he pretends to be a conservative. Well, he is a big government social conservative is what he is, in that case I'll stick to anyone who is liberal!
  • commoncoll

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    Sep 28, 2011 5:54 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    catfish5 said
    I agree with Perry on this. It is an investment.



    I don't disagree with what Perry's "intentions" are on this. What I disagree with is that our good intentions are not more focused on U.S. citizens who more rightly deserve that "investment" rather than people who are here illegally.

    Instate students already receive instate tuition. There are very few illegal students in colleges, I doubt the amount of out of state tuition fees the universities can collect from them is a significant amount.

    I agree. It is an investment. And children of illegal workers deserve to have the same rights as any other child in their community. In fact, many times they are harder workers than other legal residents. They also do no grow up on food stamps and other such programs.
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    Sep 28, 2011 6:08 PM GMT
    commoncoll said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    catfish5 said
    I agree with Perry on this. It is an investment.



    I don't disagree with what Perry's "intentions" are on this. What I disagree with is that our good intentions are not more focused on U.S. citizens who more rightly deserve that "investment" rather than people who are here illegally.

    Instate students already receive instate tuition. There are very few illegal students in colleges, I doubt the amount of out of state tuition fees the universities can collect from them is a significant amount.

    I agree. It is an investment. And children of illegal workers deserve to have the same rights as any other child in their community. In fact, many times they are harder workers than other legal residents. They also do no grow up on food stamps and other such programs.


    Wow, did you actually just say that? "They also do no grow up on food stamps and other such programs"? Whoa. Double-take. You just did.

    That is single-handedly the most outright... brazenly dishonest statement I've ever seen in my life. And here I thought I had seen it all.

    For your information, I know an illegal family from Venezuela personally where the kids are illegal, and one of the kids happens to be one of my best friends. They are all illegal and they always had government housing and food stamps growing up. It wasn't their fault, because they were very small when the parents came, but just because they are my friends doesn't mean I'm going to agree that we should have complete chaos in this country through amnesty for those who have broken the law, or have not gone through the proper channels.

    Giving exceptions and allowing any kind of amnesty is an insult to the people who have gone through all of the work to do it right and it makes a complete mockery out of our immigration system. If you make one exception then why not another and other until pretty soon what's the point in even going through the correct means of citizenship?

    Being "harder workers" is irrelevant.
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    Sep 28, 2011 9:13 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie says

    "That is single-handedly the most outright... brazenly dishonest statement I've ever seen in my life. And here I thought I had seen it all.

    For your information, I know an illegal family from Venezuela personally where the kids are illegal...."

    Mock, you need to do a little better than cite one example, even if this from your personal experience.

    CommonColl, Likewise, I doubt anyone can say that there are none of these kids on any type of gov't assistance.

    BUT WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE to Texas' program ?

    I agree that we need to restrict immigration but what is the alternative plan for coping with these kids once they are here??? LET THEM STARVE? DENY THEM AN EDUCATION even if they strive for it and prove themselves???

    For me, the only question is whether documented citizens are getting denied education incentives because of this program.

    Anyone got facts on that question?
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    Sep 28, 2011 9:30 PM GMT
    PresentMind saidmocktwinkie says

    "That is single-handedly the most outright... brazenly dishonest statement I've ever seen in my life. And here I thought I had seen it all.

    For your information, I know an illegal family from Venezuela personally where the kids are illegal...."

    Mock, you need to do a little better than cite one example, even if this from your personal experience.

    CommonColl, Likewise, I doubt anyone can say that there are none of these kids on any type of gov't assistance.

    BUT WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE to Texas' program ?

    I agree that we need to restrict immigration but what is the alternative plan for coping with these kids once they are here??? LET THEM STARVE? DENY THEM AN EDUCATION even if they strive for it and prove themselves???

    For me, the only question is whether documented citizens are getting denied education incentives because of this program.

    Anyone got facts on that question?


    Who said anything about letting people starve? If illegals are permanently barred from having the same citizenship rights then it will deter others from thinking they can sneak over and end up with the same rights while everyone else is herded like cattle waiting to get in the legal way.

    Obviously the border can't be controlled, so it'll just have to be second class citizenship unless they go through the right avenue.
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    Sep 28, 2011 9:33 PM GMT
    i think in-state tution for non-documented students needs b based on several factors. 1) the length of residence in said state; 2) record of paying taxes in said state; and, 3) criminal record if any. IF they resided in the state for longer than say 10 years, payed local, state, and federal taxes, and have no criminal record, then i have no problem with them paying in-state tuition.
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    Sep 28, 2011 9:37 PM GMT
    I believe so; Perry got this one right. A child dragged over the border by his parents, who attends American school and does well, should not be denied opportunity due to the illegal actions of his parents. Obviously, we are not going to deport these kids. So given that they have spent most of their childhood being education on the taxpayer dime, the best and the brightest of them ought to have a chance to give back by attending college so we can get some kind of return on our investment.

    I do think, however, it's time to reconsider birthright citizenship.
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    Sep 28, 2011 9:41 PM GMT


    My worthless Canadian two-cents:

    I feel they shouldn't.
    Their children, born in the US, should.


    Fourteenth amendment?

    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
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    Sep 28, 2011 9:44 PM GMT
    tailgater_3 saidi think in-state tution for non-documented students needs b based on several factors. 1) the length of residence in said state; 2) record of paying taxes in said state; and, 3) criminal record if any. IF they resided in the state for longer than say 10 years, payed local, state, and federal taxes, and have no criminal record, then i have no problem with them paying in-state tuition.


    VERY REASONABLE REQUIREMENTS you suggest, tailgater.

    What are the actual current requirements in Texas? If anyone would care to google and post, it would be helpful.
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    Sep 28, 2011 9:46 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    My worthless Canadian two-cents:

    I feel they shouldn't.
    Their children, born in the US, should.


    Fourteenth amendment?

    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."


    Their parents are not legal and therefore they do not qualify for the second requirement "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". It doesn't say "or", it says "and", meaning an additional requirement.
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    Sep 28, 2011 10:02 PM GMT
    PresentMind said
    tailgater_3 saidi think in-state tution for non-documented students needs b based on several factors. 1) the length of residence in said state; 2) record of paying taxes in said state; and, 3) criminal record if any. IF they resided in the state for longer than say 10 years, payed local, state, and federal taxes, and have no criminal record, then i have no problem with them paying in-state tuition.


    VERY REASONABLE REQUIREMENTS you suggest, tailgater.

    What are the actual current requirements in Texas? If anyone would care to google and post, it would be helpful.


    Texas has the 10% rule. If you graduate in the top 10% of your HS, you gain automatic admission to any Texas college or university. Also keep in mind that Texas has no state income tax. So immigrants pay taxes every time they purchase something.
  • conservativej...

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    Sep 28, 2011 10:10 PM GMT

    I have no problem being called heartless for not allowing illegal aliens receive in-state tuition. In fact, at the University of Georgia and Georgia Tech, illegal aliens cannot even be admitted to the university. All University System of Georgia schools must check immigration status.

    Fortunately Georgia is an extremely safe place to ignore liberals. It's not like the vast overwhelming majority of Georgians give a damn what liberals think.
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    Sep 28, 2011 10:40 PM GMT
    RETRACTION: Perry no longer believes that people are heartless who oppose his instate tuition for illegal immigrants plan. The plan is a good fit for Texas but not meant to be extrapolated to the rest of the US.
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    Sep 29, 2011 6:44 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidIT WOULD BE MUCH BETTER IF WE HAD A SUPERMAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS BECAUSE THEN NOBODY WOULD HAVE TO BE BOTHERED AT ALL ABOUT THE GOP AND THEIR CRAZY IDEAS THAT WILL DESTROY AMERICA.
    It would be much better if we had a mix of socialism, labor, Democrats, Republicans and Tea Partiers. Where coalitions had to be formed to enact legislation, involving give-and-take negotiations.

    About immigration: illegal immigration is just a coded way to say "Mexican Immigration". And it was accelerated by NAFTA. Quick check of the liberals: who of you supports NAFTA? Right. None of them.

    Why aren't U.S. corporations who hire illegal immigrants fined or closed down?

    Piss around your campfire all you want, conserva-hypocrites, but when someone's here (particularly kids, who broke no laws) because of bullshit our country created, a little perspective wouldn't hurt. Each of these kids are hard workers, intelligent, will pay taxes, and will increase the GDP of our country. They will be Americans. They will contribute to this country more than you.

    It must be great to be a white continent stealer. Now that you're here everyone's got to get offa your fucking lawn. Except the gardener.
  • commoncoll

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    Sep 29, 2011 6:57 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidWow, did you actually just say that? "They also do no grow up on food stamps and other such programs"? Whoa. Double-take. You just did.

    I thought you needed a social security number to get food stamps and other state welfare benefits?
    That's what this website says:http://ssa.gov/pubs/10101.html
    Can illegal residents get social security numbers while maintaining an illegal status?

    Currently, to pay in-state tuition, you have to be a legal resident and maintain active residence/homestead in the state for at least 11 consecutive months prior to wanting admission and not be a resident of another state/ be a registered voter/ registered vehicle etc. Or if a TX resident parent can claim you as a dependent on their taxes. To gain state residency as in voter registration and all that you have to live here for 12 consecutive months. At least that's how I have understood it, and that is what the financial papers from universities say.

    Also the 10% rule only applies to public universities.

    An illegal immigrant would pay $15000-U Houston Downtown, $20000-Texas A&M, 32000-UT Austin, $31000-Texas Tech. They are not eligible for financial aid or scholarships.

    A legal resident would pay $9100-UH Downtown, $5200-T A&M, $9800-UT Austin, and $21000- Texas Tech. They would also have access to financial aid and scholarships. 40-65% of students in Texas public universities are determined to be eligible for financial aid.
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    Sep 30, 2011 12:59 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete saidI believe so; Perry got this one right. A child dragged over the border by his parents, who attends American school and does well, should not be denied opportunity due to the illegal actions of his parents.

    Texas already has a similar law along with about 11 or 12 other states. If a child attends high school for 3 years in TX or is a graduate of a TX high school they get in-state tuition for universities as long as they apply for legal status as soon as possible . And why not?

    This law Perry want to initiate would be for adults who did not go to high school in TX and did not attain their GED here. But they would pay state taxes just like every other Texan who does not pay income tax.

    How is the US so esoteric and elitist that you need to do "everything right" just to go to college here? Explain to me how allowing in-state tuition is a slippery slope. No one is advocating they be allowed welfare or allow them legal residence. They still can not get financial aid. They would have to pay everything out of pocket. And you know what? If somebody want to go to college despite these challenges, they are much harder workers than the avg American college student and they should not be limited.

    You know what IS abuse of the systems? People going to community colleges for years and years just to get free money with nothing to show for it. They need to limit the aid paid out to community colleges or at least put a limit on how much aid a person can have in their lifetime for a certain degree.

    And no, undocumented residents do not receive food stamps or welfare unless under emergency conditions.