Are gay people just messed up?

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    Oct 04, 2011 3:42 AM GMT
    I'm posing the question in the title because it's something that I've wondered, but I don't believe it. I figure there must be an explanation. I just don't know what it is, which is why I'm making this topic.

    When I had just come out, I chatted with someone who used to be a member here. We'll call him Greg. He's been gay and out for a long time, but he seemed to have negative views of homosexuality in general. He called it a "bullshit lifestyle", and said that in his experience, most gay people have had "messed up" lives.

    These comments have bugged me ever since, especially since I've noticed a few things myself. So three examples...first, myself.

    I've lived much of my life with deep anxiety caused by OCD, which has definitely impacted my life-- especially the social and relational aspects. I had general anxiety, and part of it was social anxiety. It made it hard to have friends or relationships of any kind. I've been very lonely for much of my life.

    I've talked with one guy who was beaten by his father, saw his friend get hit by a car as a little boy, and also had some anxiety disorders.

    Then there's my ex-boyfriend, who lived with adopted parents, had bipolar, and was sadly molested several times as a child.

    These people have been my experience, and they have had somewhat messed up lives. This leaves me with a few questions. Could these things have caused them to be gay? Is being gay itself a form of being screwed up? The main question is Why does it seem like there are more gays with messed up lives than straights with messed up lives?

    I'm sure there's an explanation. These questions I have are stressful, so hopefully there's someone here who can give me some answers.
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    Oct 04, 2011 4:08 AM GMT
    Well I'm fucked up, but I didn't have horrific experiences as a kid. It was a general sucky time all the way through, but no abuse.

    Part of the way I'm fucked up is exposure to the dirty internet from around age 14, and a lack of actual relationships with real people, so my mind endirtened further as I became less and less able to relate with others.

    And then there was the bullying, which a lot of us have experienced and could be responsible for some "messed up"ness of gays in general.

    We go through puberty and beyond as outsiders, sometimes having to live a double-life and that can fuck us up.

    We have a different culture, more difficulty finding partners, we get jealous and competitive with the very group we are trying to attract. That can fuck us up. Superficial things are so important to people nowadays, so good, healthy hearts aren't exactly cultivated.

    But I wouldn't say it's a bullshit lifestyle. You should try talking with more people than this one Greg, who sounds quite extreme, before you decide your perspective on ALL gays.

    I also think humanity is naturally cruel and selfish, so I don't expect straight people to be of better quality than gays.
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    Oct 04, 2011 4:22 AM GMT
    SkinnyBitch saidWell I'm fucked up, but I didn't have horrific experiences as a kid. It was a general sucky time all the way through, but no abuse.

    Part of the way I'm fucked up is exposure to the dirty internet from around age 14, and a lack of actual relationships with real people, so my mind endirtened further as I became less and less able to relate with others.


    Well, I think most people were exposed to porn by that age-- straight guys included. Am I wrong?
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    Oct 04, 2011 4:25 AM GMT
    Dissonance said
    SkinnyBitch saidWell I'm fucked up, but I didn't have horrific experiences as a kid. It was a general sucky time all the way through, but no abuse.

    Part of the way I'm fucked up is exposure to the dirty internet from around age 14, and a lack of actual relationships with real people, so my mind endirtened further as I became less and less able to relate with others.


    Well, I think most people were exposed to porn by that age-- straight guys included. Am I wrong?


    It was before it was normal to! Besides the porn I saw/read was kinda fuuuucked.
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:04 AM GMT
    Note to all RJers:

    HOMOSEXUALS ARE THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE.

    We are no worse or no better.

    Do you think queers invented bitchiness, flakiness, shallowness, snobbery, elitism, compulsion, obsession and every other human failing?

    WE DID NOT.

    Get over yourself in thinking you are unique. We are all just bags of meat making our way through the universe.

    Yes, I am a preachy, overtly loud, opinionated, self-important cuntbag.

    FUCK OFF AND GOD BLESS.
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:17 AM GMT
    Interesting... But I'm not sure about it being correct. I had a messed up family life growing up. My father was abusive towards my mother and mentally abusive towards me. I was molested by another young teenage boy, was somewhat picked on by other kids my age or a bit older.

    I also have anxiety and depression and am medicated on a low dosage of prescription.

    I learned way back after reading and seeing a therapist for a short while that I have the power to enrich my life if I want to. To surround my self with positive people and don't live in the past.

    Yes it was a mest up past, but the present and future aren't written yet. I do agree that gay men do seem to have more issues or that maybe we just don't hear issues from straight men because they are less in touch and not willing to voice their past unlike gay men who are more in touch.

    Bottom line to me, you can either be responsible for your present life or blame the past for not moving forward. I get one life, I want it to be the best it can be.
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:20 AM GMT
    People in general are messed up. Your attention just happens to be on the gay ones.
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:22 AM GMT
    Your friend, "He called it a "bullshit lifestyle", and said that in his experience, most gay people have had "messed up" lives."

    ...has a big credibility problem with me. It's no lifestyle; gay people are pan-demographic across an enormous number of lifestyles. Whenever you hear gay (homosexual) labelled as a lifestyle it should set off an alarm bell.

    -Doug
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:28 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidThere will be no limitations regarding observational trends of human behavior according to sexual orientation.

    I know plenty of women that are fucking cunts.


    INORITE
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:30 AM GMT
    Um....no offense intended, but do you think that just maybe there might be some merit to seeing a bit more of the world and meeting a wider demographic of gay people before you try to develop some unified theory? Your sample size, in the parlance of scientific inquiry, is a bit skewed, no? You are 21 years old and in MN. How much of the robust global gay world have you even come across?
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:32 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidThere will be no limitations regarding observational trends of human behavior according to sexual orientation.

    I know plenty of women that are fucking cunts.


    I didn't know women could fuck cunts. You mean with a strapon?
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:36 AM GMT
    Dissonance saidThese people have been my experience, and they have had somewhat messed up lives. Could these things have caused them to be gay?

    No. This merely caused them to be fucked up. Being gay was incidental.

    I believe it's possible that there are traumas that can alter a human's hormone balance and wiring that may make them gay (or straight) later in life (head injury, drugs, fever). However, most people come to be gay much earlier in life, either just after conception or during gestation.
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:37 AM GMT
    I think gays basically have the same mentality as straights. The only difference is that they are more likely to be bullied in school, disowned by their family, and live a lie for a decent portion of their lives. All of that combined could mess people up.
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:39 AM GMT
    After being in therapy for decades... I married the man of my dreams, a gay psychiatrist! (true story)

    Gay men live in guilt and shame and those that don't overcome that have a lot of anger issues that manifest as sex addiction/aversion, substance abuse, and self loathing.

    Great book on the subject "The Velvet Rage, Overcoming the Pain of Growing up in a Straight Man's World", by Alan Downs

    http://www.amazon.com/Velvet-Rage-Overcoming-Growing-Straight/dp/0738210617/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317706472&sr=1-1
  • ATXnative

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    Oct 04, 2011 5:45 AM GMT
    everybody is fucked up in some way. why does everything a guy gay does have to be classifed as a thing gay guys do, and separated into that single category. we aren't really that different guys....
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    Oct 04, 2011 5:47 AM GMT
    heeb saidNote to all RJers:

    HOMOSEXUALS ARE THE

    SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE.


    We are no worse or no better.

    Do you think queers invented bitchiness, flakiness, shallowness, snobbery, elitism, compulsion, obsession and every other human failing?

    WE DID NOT.

    Get over yourself in thinking you are unique. We are all just bags of meat making our way through the universe.

    Yes, I am a preachy, overtly loud, opinionated, self-important cuntbag.

    FUCK OFF AND GOD BLESS.
    Preach_artie.gif
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    Oct 04, 2011 6:17 AM GMT
    Bigsmiles saidAfter being in therapy for decades... I married the man of my dreams, a gay psychiatrist! (true story)

    Gay men live in guilt and shame and those that don't overcome that have a lot of anger issues that manifest as sex addiction/aversion, substance abuse, and self loathing.

    Great book on the subject "The Velvet Rage, Overcoming the Pain of Growing up in a Straight Man's World", by Alan Downs

    http://www.amazon.com/Velvet-Rage-Overcoming-Growing-Straight/dp/0738210617/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317706472&sr=1-1


    That looks like a very interesting book sir and I agree with you on the factors that contribute to the self destructive/self loathing attitude a lot of gay men have.
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    Oct 04, 2011 6:20 AM GMT
    I dont think gay people are any more or less messed up than anyone else.
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    Oct 04, 2011 6:25 AM GMT
    osakarob saidUm....no offense intended, but do you think that just maybe there might be some merit to seeing a bit more of the world and meeting a wider demographic of gay people before you try to develop some unified theory? Your sample size, in the parlance of scientific inquiry, is a bit skewed, no? You are 21 years old and in MN. How much of the robust global gay world have you even come across?


    I've made no conclusions. I made this thread to hear from others. It goes without saying that I would benefit from being around different types of gay people, and that the "sample" is small. It's simply my personal experience. That's all.
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    Oct 04, 2011 6:44 AM GMT
    I disagree with the people up here saying gays are no more messed up than anyone else.. i do not believe that an entire life spent being told by society that you are the lowest possible form of human being.. worthy of being ridiculed, in some cases even killed, to a greater extent than any other form of human being, can possibly lead to us cultivating a healthy psyche later on.. somehow, that sense of rejection and revilement has to affect your self-image, and thus how you treat others..

    That said... like with most people who have suffered abuse, like abused children (cuz being reviled is an emotional form of abuse, not to mention gays can easily be physically abused).. it can lead to two different possibilities: either the subject becomes extremely negative towards his surroundings (leading to increased bitchiness and hostility), lashing out on what is quite correctly perceived as a negative world that must be fought against... or it can result in the subject becoming extremely positive, (becoming unusually accepting and caring) showing compassion for the most heavily rejected beings to a greater degree than a normal human being would have, and thus becoming a shining example and far more successful than most humans would bother to be, working to change and improve that which he perceived as being wrong in the world

    Both are a form of overcompensation really, just in a different direction... its basic psychology

    Edit: I should add, that the above would happen as a reaction to deal with the perceived discomfort of being rejected... either in a negative coping, or positive coping style... if the perceived discomfort is dealt with normally and the person is able to let go of the issue, he would then be able to live life in a normal fashion, without the exaggerated effects of the rejection weighing on him...

    This is pretty straightforward psychoanalytical theory.. I will most certainly be open to other theories though
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    Oct 04, 2011 6:47 AM GMT
    Dissonance said
    osakarob saidUm....no offense intended, but do you think that just maybe there might be some merit to seeing a bit more of the world and meeting a wider demographic of gay people before you try to develop some unified theory? Your sample size, in the parlance of scientific inquiry, is a bit skewed, no? You are 21 years old and in MN. How much of the robust global gay world have you even come across?


    I've made no conclusions. I made this thread to hear from others. It goes without saying that I would benefit from being around different types of gay people, and that the "sample" is small. It's simply my personal experience. That's all.


    I know what the OP is saying. TBH most of my gay friends are fucked up and self destructive in one way or another.

    Whenever I'm out with them we are either generally absolutely shit faced, take drugs or are just generally quite nasty about people.

    You have to ask where that behavior comes from and while it's not at all representative of the entire gay community I've met so many damaged individuals when i've been out at gay bars it is definitely prevalent in the gay community.
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    Oct 04, 2011 6:51 AM GMT
    Maybe we should start discussing what things make people straight? That would be nice, for a change.
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    Oct 04, 2011 6:55 AM GMT
    I'd like to think of myself as not messed up.
    I had an awesome childhood in a great family. The only stress and anxiety that I ever got was over me being gay and accepting myself.

    So to answer your question, No I don't think it causes people to become gay. I just think it adds stress to anyone's life who allows it to.
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    Oct 04, 2011 7:30 AM GMT
    whateveryo said
    Dissonance said
    osakarob saidUm....no offense intended, but do you think that just maybe there might be some merit to seeing a bit more of the world and meeting a wider demographic of gay people before you try to develop some unified theory? Your sample size, in the parlance of scientific inquiry, is a bit skewed, no? You are 21 years old and in MN. How much of the robust global gay world have you even come across?


    I've made no conclusions. I made this thread to hear from others. It goes without saying that I would benefit from being around different types of gay people, and that the "sample" is small. It's simply my personal experience. That's all.


    I know what the OP is saying. TBH most of my gay friends are fucked up and self destructive in one way or another.

    Whenever I'm out with them we are either generally absolutely shit faced, take drugs or are just generally quite nasty about people.

    You have to ask where that behavior comes from and while it's not at all representative of the entire gay community I've met so many damaged individuals when i've been out at gay bars it is definitely prevalent in the gay community.


    I have to 'blame' high school wrestling icon_lol.gif

    "I've met so many damaged individuals when i've been out at gay bars it is definitely prevalent in the gay community"

    I first came out in June 1970 or maybe I should say that is first time I was in a bar so I've been around I bit. It's frankly real hard to disagree with what you say. I was disappointed needless to say, but always had hobbies and interests that kept me around a good mix of straights guys so I was ok with it all. However, as you say, there is a difference.
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    Oct 04, 2011 7:55 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    whateveryo said
    Dissonance said
    osakarob saidUm....no offense intended, but do you think that just maybe there might be some merit to seeing a bit more of the world and meeting a wider demographic of gay people before you try to develop some unified theory? Your sample size, in the parlance of scientific inquiry, is a bit skewed, no? You are 21 years old and in MN. How much of the robust global gay world have you even come across?


    I've made no conclusions. I made this thread to hear from others. It goes without saying that I would benefit from being around different types of gay people, and that the "sample" is small. It's simply my personal experience. That's all.


    I know what the OP is saying. TBH most of my gay friends are fucked up and self destructive in one way or another.

    Whenever I'm out with them we are either generally absolutely shit faced, take drugs or are just generally quite nasty about people.

    You have to ask where that behavior comes from and while it's not at all representative of the entire gay community I've met so many damaged individuals when i've been out at gay bars it is definitely prevalent in the gay community.


    I have to 'blame' high school wrestling icon_lol.gif

    "I've met so many damaged individuals when i've been out at gay bars it is definitely prevalent in the gay community"

    I first came out in June 1970 or maybe I should say that is first time I was in a bar so I've been around I bit. It's frankly real hard to disagree with what you say. I was disappointed needless to say, but always had hobbies and interests that kept me around a good mix of straights guys so I was ok with it all. However, as you say, there is a difference.


    So why is that? Have you come to any conclusions?

    I dunno, I think there's gotta be an explanation. Otherwise, if gay people are simply more messed up, that would mean that maybe there is something fundamentally wrong with being gay.