why white men don't love you.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 2:18 AM GMT
    I was insipred to write this after seeing this thread.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1854321

    and the many that have come before it.


    IF YOU ARE JUST THE AVERAGE GAY ASIAN GUY, MOST OF THE POINTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOT DIRECTED AT YOU. It is specifically for the asian guys who are consumed by the idea of finding romantic or sexual satisfaction specifically from a white man. After reading threads posted by these men, I realized that they get made fun of a lot but no one really offers them any answers to their question. I guess that's what I'm trying to do here. I know I will be flamed, I know I will be misunderstood. I'm not claiming that these are the only factors that contribute to the problem nor am I claiming that they are all 100% correct so if you have anything to add or if there is something I missed please don't keep it to yourself.

    SO TO ALL THE ASIAN GUYS LOOKING TO EXCLUSIVELY DATE WHITE MEN, HOPEFULLY THIS OFFERS SOMETHING. so here goes



    Why white men don’t love you


    1.)
    You don’t elevate stock in Asian guys. If we think of each race as a publicly traded company it makes it a bit easier to understand why it is so hard for you to land that white guy you’ve been pining for. If-as many have claimed-there is a large segment of the white gay population that is not attracted to Asian men as well as a large segment of the Asian population who do not date Asian men, the demand for Asian men decreases considerably.

    2.)
    Since there is a deficit pool of men that Asian men are attracted to but that also want to date them, the white men who do want to date Asian men have a very large pool of Asian men to choose from. If you are not in the top ten percent of that pool there is a very strong likelihood that no one will pick you. White men have this privilege because white gay men have the highest stock and can therefore be more selective. So unless you’re the bomb, you’re out of luck.

    3.)
    You’ve narrowed your dating pool so much that you wind up missing out on other men who would be happy to be with you. I can say that as a guy who tends to go for Asian guys that they are the race, which is least receptive to me by far (a sentiment echoed by other minorities looking date Asian men.)
    It would help your bargaining power as an Asian man significantly if there were more Asian men paired with minorities because it would raise demand as well as give them a bit of a PR boost as more guys would talk about how great they are from personal experience.

    4.) You lead with your racial identity.
    The worst thing you can possibly do in your pursuit of a desirable white man is say something like “Asian boy looking for white man.” <- note the language. Referring to yourself as boy and your potential mate as man implies that you are seeking to play a submissive role in your interaction with this white guy. It also feeds into a lot of the existing stereotypes that hurt Asian guys.
    Some guys mistakenly believe that the only way that they can land the guy they want is to create some fetish-based persona. The truth is you will have to work extra hard to combat some of the stereotypes against you as an Asian male if you want to develop mass appeal. Don’t make a thread about how white men don’t want you (especially on Realjock) if you haven’t met the physical qualifications to be considered physically desirable regardless of race (body, grooming etc.)

    5.) You don’t create manufactured demand for other Asian men.
    You guys can argue with me all you want, but there is nothing natural about the fact that most of the hotlists on RJ consist of over 90% white males (regardless of the race of the hotlist creator himself.) Western society creates a manufactured demand for white guys mainly through media and this demand is especially strong in the gay community. If you wanted to do something in the next 30 seconds that would dramatically increase your chances of getting that white guy you want, you would stop reading this and hotlist 5 Asian guys right now.
    While the struggle to find ones own race and other minority races attractive is not something unique to Asian men, other races tend to be willing to manufacture demand for themselves.
    Black and Latino men for example will hotlist their own race at higher rates than Asian men tend to do. Many minority families psychologically train their children from young ages to find other members of the same race attractive.

    This RJ thread is a great example of manufactured demand.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1649968

    Be sure to note


    a.)The percentage of pictures posted of minority men
    b.) The ethnicity of the posters of these pictures
    c.) What the thread would look like if those posters had not posted at all.


    So basically, you inflate the demand for white men by idolizing them, and reduce your own demand by refusing to validate the attractiveness and appeal of other Asian men. You also nourish stereotypes about Asian guys by the way you carry yourself in pursuit of your white man. You are also not committed to manufacturing the demand that gay culture manufactures for white men and other minority groups manufacture for themselves As corny as it sounds, no white man is going to love you until you love yourself.

    I wrote this on my phone btw....thank god for swype icon_neutral.gif





  • masculumpedes

    Posts: 5549

    Oct 06, 2011 2:41 AM GMT
    Well Professor, while I'm still trying to digest all of that, I think you are correct.
    Thanks for taking the time to explain. icon_wink.gif
  • offshore

    Posts: 1294

    Oct 06, 2011 2:42 AM GMT
    Kudos to your phone typing skills.

    And Bravo for what you said.

    I want to add that the general culture has a hand in this. This IS a white dominated world cultrually. White IS beautiful as being portraited by countless movies, TV shows, posters etc.

    Once upon a time, each culture have it's own definition of beauty. Some tribes goes gaga for big ear lobes, other have a thing for elongated necks. etc etc. At one time it is quite often to hear Asians comments about how 'average or even ugly' an white guy's Asian girlfriend is - White guys look for slightly different features in girls than Asians.

    But since the colonisation era, and especially after the spread of the internet, the distinctive culture identity of beauty is being eroded by western, white predominated media and definition.

    Everywhere you turn, white IS beautiful.

    This helps to produces a countless number of "douchebags of gridr" white guys, and, maybe just a large number of "I am an ugly Asian, why white men will not date me".

    White culture is extrovert, outward expansion, white Asian culture, for the most part is introvert, avoid confrontation type. Put the 2 together, no fucking wonder one comes up on top.

    No wonder you end up with a bunch of Masochist Asians eager for the love of their white supreme overlords, who's self confidence is boosted by the afore mentioned culture ideas and say "NO ASIANS".

    To all the 'ugly' Asians out there, I say, grow a FUCKING PAIR, and stop living in your self-deafting little world. If you can't love yourself, who the fuck is going to want to love you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 3:34 AM GMT
    Why do you care? You're not even Asian, deki.

    facepalm23.jpg?w=500&h=400
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    Oct 06, 2011 4:05 AM GMT
    waimea saidWhy do you care? You're not even Asian, deki.

    facepalm23.jpg?w=500&h=400



    Because sometimes......when it's cloudy outside... and I have nothing to do..... try to empathize with people who don't necessarily look like me. sorry if that's a foreign concept for you.
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    Oct 06, 2011 4:08 AM GMT
    thank you. but can't believe you wrote this long. on the phone. who inspired you doing this?
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    Oct 06, 2011 4:10 AM GMT
    iLikeDC saidthank you. but can't believe you wrote this long. on the phone. who inspired you doing this?


    this asian guy who posted on the site, I looked up his handle on google and he has like.... poems on other sites about wanting to commit suicide because he was "ugly" and white men didn't want him.

    Besides, it was the choice between this or ......you know......like doing my job or studying. icon_wink.gif
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    Oct 06, 2011 4:19 AM GMT
    on an unrelated note.....why when I make a controversial thread do people not really wanna comment but I get a spike in hotlists? icon_eek.gif
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    Oct 06, 2011 4:23 AM GMT
    Thanks for this deki. Since moving to Seattle two years ago (ranked among the top cities in the nation with the highest population of self-identified non-Hispanic white people), I fell into the white-worship BS that so many of the gay minority men up here suffer from. This may sound melodramatic, but the truth is I've never had such an inferiority complex about my own ethnicity until I moved up here and got hit head-on by the Reality Bus going 100mph.

    I finally decided enough is enough and decided to stop wallowing in my inferiority and take pride in my own ethnicity. I realized that no one would find me sexy and desirable if I didn't even think I was sexy and desirable.

    Stuff I'll add to deki's OP:

    I know men of other ethnic minorities struggle with similar issues of self esteem, but Asian men (be they Asian immigrants or American-born men of Asian descent) come with their own unique set of challenges, namely emasculation and desexualization by Western culture/media. I'll say right here and now, don't you EVER let some ignorant fucktard of ANY race (even your fellow Asian-Americans) strip you of your manhood and masculinity. This is the first step to gaining the kind of confidence that guys find sexy.

    Below are links to a blog by a Chinese-Canadian dating coach based in Singapore. Though his blog and services are targeted toward our heterosexual/bisexual Asian brothers (who also have their fair share of dating trouble here in the West), he wrote two columns entitled "Empowering Asian Men" (Part I and II):

    Part I
    http://www.doctorasianrake.com/2009/04/empower-asian-men/
    Part II
    http://www.doctorasianrake.com/2009/04/empowering-the-asian-man-part-ii/

    (I liked the Manny Pacquiao shot he puts in)
    boxer-5.jpg

    He makes two very important points:

    1) Asian men aren't any less masculine than their male counterparts of other races. Don't let anyone who is ignorant of the diversity, history, and philosophy of Asia's various ethnicities tell your otherwise.

    2) Quit using your ethnicity as a cop-out for self-defeatist approaches to dating.
    "... Asian-American men in particular need to stand up for themselves and be more like the Tyler Durden character in Fight Club. In fact, that is a running theme in the PUA (pickup artist) movement.
    ...

    Dudes, quit your whining. Stand up straight. Keep your chin up. Speak loudly. Learn to be dominant. Step out from under your dad’s shadow, and stop being a momma’s boy. Be your own man.
    "
  • mizu5

    Posts: 2599

    Oct 06, 2011 4:25 AM GMT
    I'm wondering, how many asians are ther epercentage wise on here?

    And... I WOULD argue your commentthat it is not natural.

    For example, bear with me here as my logic May be flawed, but I'm tired.

    If there are 90% white men on this site, it would make sense, no? (There isn't)

    If someone is into specifically very muscular or beefy men, that might actually make sense, as I don't see a large number of beefy muscular asians/blackguys/whatever. Not that there aren't any, but maybe 90% of the guys that are, are white (I wouldn't know realistically?)

    Or maybe it's because we don't have a huge population of asian men who actively participate on the forums, at least not as compared to white/latin men.

    I hotlist anyone wh catches me eye. It's why I have over 1000 guys on my list, I see something gorgeous about all of them, and some days I look at my list and wonder why I chose a guy, then another day I'll realize it again.

    I'm all for wquality with dating, as long as someone fits what I'm looking for. Twinks do nothing for me, and sadly many asian men I find online are very... tiny like myself. WHERE MY BEEFYASIANBOYS.

    / iwananhotlistpeople sometimes buttheyintimidate me.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 4:41 AM GMT
    mizu5 saidWHERE MY BEEFYASIANBOYS.


    http://www.realjock.com/_2theTEE

    http://www.realjock.com/AvadaKedavra

    (Sorry to single these guys out, but they are on my buddylist I have the easiest access...)

    edit: how about these guys:

    20090721122058-1526518859.jpg

    6de0b84egw1djbcgyb1lbj.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 4:47 AM GMT
    mizu5 saidWHERE MY BEEFYASIANBOYS.


    I'd venture a guess that they're mostly in Asia...

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR39BYVeGm8D9fihpf-aHd

    ...or in seedy old scrap metal yards
    image019.jpg
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    Oct 06, 2011 5:13 AM GMT
    Cityaznguy said
    mizu5 saidWHERE MY BEEFYASIANBOYS.


    http://www.realjock.com/_2theTEE


    6de0b84egw1djbcgyb1lbj.jpg


    <3
  • offshore

    Posts: 1294

    Oct 06, 2011 5:23 AM GMT
    dekiruman said
    Cityaznguy said
    mizu5 saidWHERE MY BEEFYASIANBOYS.


    http://www.realjock.com/_2theTEE


    6de0b84egw1djbcgyb1lbj.jpg


    <3


    The bastard! He stole my cap!
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    Oct 06, 2011 5:28 AM GMT
    offshore said
    dekiruman said
    Cityaznguy said
    mizu5 saidWHERE MY BEEFYASIANBOYS.


    http://www.realjock.com/_2theTEE


    6de0b84egw1djbcgyb1lbj.jpg


    <3


    The bastard! He stole my cap!

    You're looking at his cap?! I was busy staring at his bod and smile icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 5:32 AM GMT
    First time I've been impressed with one of your posts, dekiruman! I applaud you for this one.

    No, he shouldn't be put down because it doesn't affect him, he should be congratulated for taking the time to help others when it won't benefit him at all.

    I would have just said

    You won't sell any if you say
    "PLEASE buy our asian cupcakes!!! Please?"
    If you say
    "You'll love one of our asian cupcakes... unless they sell out first!"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 5:40 AM GMT
    I entered this thread with rolling eyes but BAM 180! what a great post. totally agree with all your points. it's so easy to fall into a defeatist and self-hating attitude when you're asian in the gay community, but it's a surmountable mindset as long as you just empower yourself, like you said. easier said than done especially if you're alone in a predominantly white community/culture, but totally necessary.

    it's not about erasing/hiding/forgetting your culture or ethnicity (as a ton of idiots on this site try to advocate with "dude just shut up about it already" "i don't want to hear about this"), but about OWNING it.
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    Oct 06, 2011 5:44 AM GMT
    wildtype87 said
    mizu5 saidWHERE MY BEEFYASIANBOYS.


    I'd venture a guess that they're mostly in Asia...

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR39BYVeGm8D9fihpf-aHd

    ...or in seedy old scrap metal yards
    image019.jpg

    this guy
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 6:31 AM GMT
    OK now my serious reply: I thought about this for a while. I edited and re-edited, but I am just going to be brave and not going to hold back.

    For starters, I don't buy the Asian guys are more fem crap, not even in the media. If you look at the Asian male celebrities in even Western media, you do see the masculine type: Look at Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Daniel Dae Kim, and many others that eluded my mind right now. I mean, these guys (and the producers) are obviously trying to project and portray asian guys in a masculine, righteous, and sexy image, and I think it's great. Perhaps more and more people will start to associate asian male with sexy image icon_wink.gif

    The fact of the matter is that many white guys do not date outside of their race just because that's 1) their preference (or so they say), and 2) that's what they feel comfortable dating / fucking. My personal opinion is that every single race has good looking people and not-so-good-looking people. I would definitely prefer a hot fellow asian guy over an average looking white guy. I have said this before but I will keep saying it, hot is hot is hot, regardless of race and age. But there are definitely days that I go through a predominantly asian-attraction phase, in which I will not look at any guys of other race. I also have my Latino, Middle-Eastern, Black, and White guys days. It varies. Saddest thing is that while I have had no problem getting attention / dates / hookups from White, Latino, Black, Middle-Eastern guys, I have problem connecting with a fellow Asian dude. The funniest thing is that when an asian sees another asian at bar / club / bathhouse?icon_eek.gif / or any gay social function, immediately they see each other as competition and not as love/sex connection. I was talking to my friend David about this (he's also asian) and he says that Asian guys are usually the cattiest to another fellow asian guy, and can just turn around be like all puppyish and smitten and docile to a white guy. He's right. It makes me upset.

    I do want to offer other additions to dekiruman's awesome observations though. Even though this is just anecdotal evidence coming from a few of my (White) friends / ex-BFs, past dates that later became friends, I think there are some validity to it, because my rule of thumb is that: If one person tells you, just can neglect it. If two people tell you the same thing, it might be a coincidence. However, if five or more people are telling you exactly the same thing, it is probably something that has some veracity within it, so I would like to share with you what some of them said to me: (mind you, these are guys who have, and/or would date asian guys)

    1) Their main complain is that many (not all) asian guys have a defeatist attitude when it comes to dating. Like wildtype87 pointed out in his posts, many of these asian guys lack confidence and would use the racial thing as a copout and that kind of attitude is a complete turn-off. These (white) guys often tell me that, they are out on a date, they are someone's personal self-esteem pump. That, is so unattractive and draining.

    2) These guys would also constantly complain / make inquiries about this subject: "Where can I find jock-ish, beefy, muscular, handsome Asian guys? Are any of your friends these type of asian guys, and if yes, please introduce us." (Ironically, Mizu just brought out this point as well). I get this often, even from some fellow RJers (but I won't name them for privacy reasons icon_smile.gif ). I think when it comes to the standard male beauty, a majority (again, not all) of guys prefer jock-ish, muscular, etc, and this is independent of race. I *do* want to make an observation on a separate note though, I don't see a fellow asian guys at the gym very often. But the ones that works out and pays attention to the way that they look...like my friend Phil *faints*, and yes, dekiruman has seen his picture. *swoons*.

    These are the two main points. There are some other side complains but I won't get into it since this post is already too long.
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    Oct 06, 2011 6:37 AM GMT
    Stan904 said
    this guy


    I would be a total whore for him (which, I'm usually not)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 7:03 AM GMT
    Cityaznguy said
    Stan904 said
    this guy


    I would be a total whore for him (which, I'm usually not)


    yo, back up off my boyfriend. kthnx
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 7:19 AM GMT
    well here is more of his body.icon_smile.gif





  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 7:23 AM GMT
    Deki, I like Daniel better anywayz...



    I would like to be sandwiched between the two of them...icon_redface.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 10:41 AM GMT
    Cityaznguy saidDeki, I like Daniel better anywayz...


    I would like to be sandwiched between the two of them...icon_redface.gif


    What happened to Daniel? Suddenly he's not in the videos and I am imagining some kind of break-up. . .

    But geez, Mike Chang is uber-hot.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 06, 2011 10:51 AM GMT
    Stan904 saidthis guy


    tumblr_lrtu8leDEn1qa67k3.gif

    Yes please!