The Absurdity of the Anti-Corporation Movement

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    Oct 06, 2011 11:56 PM GMT
    A few of the inconvenient truths of the Occupy Wall Street group.

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/the-incoherent-agenda-of-occupy-wall-street/

    This “corporations run the government” meme has been around since the 1970s, and it’s no more true now than it was then. As Rick Moran points out, if corporations really ran the government would we have an EPA, OSHA, SEC, the EEOC, the FHA, the Department of Labor, or any of the other number of state and federal agencies regulate corporate behavior? If corporations truly “ran” the government, then why would any of these organizations exist?

    Corporations do influence the government, of course. But then so do labor unions, the legal profession, the medical profession, special interest groups based on one form of racial or ethnic grievance or another, and lobbying interests ranging from Iowa corn to Texas oil. The problem isn’t corporations, the problem is that we have a government that has its fingers in nearly every aspect of the economy. That means that policy makers have the ability to pick economic winners and losers every day, and it’s only natural that those policies would be of concern to the people that they’re going to impact most directly, the businesses affected by them. That’s lobbying and petitioning the government for redress of grievances, not “running the government.” This kind of reflexive anti-business mentality seems to be quite common in some sectors of society, but it has little basis in reality and seems firmly entrenched in resentment and envy rather than an honest examination of the country’s political system.
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    Oct 07, 2011 11:05 AM GMT
    Pathetic attempt to defend the indefensible.
  • GQjock

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    Oct 07, 2011 11:18 AM GMT
    Ummm ... you're kidding me with this right? .... Right?

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    Oct 07, 2011 12:40 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidPathetic attempt to defend the indefensible.


    The problem is that not only is it easily defensible - it's also easy to see how the corporation as a legal entity has unleashed immeasurable wealth and progress.
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    Oct 07, 2011 1:03 PM GMT
    While it is true that the government does things that corporate America doesn't like, they spend literally BILLIONS to try to stop them. And a large chunk of that is to brainwash the American people to belevie that being "pro-business" will help them in some way. If you think about it, we let companies decide many things in our lvies and we dont stand up for them. (The reality is that corporations hate lawyers because they routinely stand up to them.)

    There are many responsible corporations out there, but there are plenty that are NOT looking out for America or the best interests of its people.

    That said, the Occupy Wall Street movement does seem innocuous; what is the action plan? What is the end game of this protest? There seems to be NO message. If I were corporate America I would rely on the 48 hour rule... "The American Public won't pay attention to bad press for more than 48 hours."

    Disagree? Do you really beleive that anyone stopped buying gas at BP? They are doing fine, I guarantee.
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    Oct 07, 2011 1:55 PM GMT
    Alpha_Muscle saidWhile it is true that the government does things that corporate America doesn't like, they spend literally BILLIONS to try to stop them. And a large chunk of that is to brainwash the American people to belevie that being "pro-business" will help them in some way. If you think about it, we let companies decide many things in our lvies and we dont stand up for them. (The reality is that corporations hate lawyers because they routinely stand up to them.)

    There are many responsible corporations out there, but there are plenty that are NOT looking out for America or the best interests of its people.

    That said, the Occupy Wall Street movement does seem innocuous; what is the action plan? What is the end game of this protest? There seems to be NO message. If I were corporate America I would rely on the 48 hour rule... "The American Public won't pay attention to bad press for more than 48 hours."

    Disagree? Do you really beleive that anyone stopped buying gas at BP? They are doing fine, I guarantee.


    No, they really don't spend as much as government trying to maintain relevance. BP if you have been following their finances has had to significantly scale back and sell off assets - if that's what you consider "fine". Corporations look out for the interests of their shareholders and that means looking out for customers. Many businesses hate lawyers because of the costs imposed on them and jackpot justice - costs that ultimately get pushed down on the consumer anyway.

    Corporations are only a legal device that enables groups and individuals to more easily raise capital. To be anti-corporation makes as much sense as to be anti-cement.
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    Oct 07, 2011 2:00 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Alpha_Muscle saidWhile it is true that the government does things that corporate America doesn't like, they spend literally BILLIONS to try to stop them. And a large chunk of that is to brainwash the American people to belevie that being "pro-business" will help them in some way. If you think about it, we let companies decide many things in our lvies and we dont stand up for them. (The reality is that corporations hate lawyers because they routinely stand up to them.)

    There are many responsible corporations out there, but there are plenty that are NOT looking out for America or the best interests of its people.

    That said, the Occupy Wall Street movement does seem innocuous; what is the action plan? What is the end game of this protest? There seems to be NO message. If I were corporate America I would rely on the 48 hour rule... "The American Public won't pay attention to bad press for more than 48 hours."

    Disagree? Do you really beleive that anyone stopped buying gas at BP? They are doing fine, I guarantee.


    No, they really don't spend as much as government trying to maintain relevance. BP if you have been following their finances has had to significantly scale back and sell off assets - if that's what you consider "fine". Corporations look out for the interests of their shareholders and that means looking out for customers. Many businesses hate lawyers because of the costs imposed on them and jackpot justice - costs that ultimately get pushed down on the consumer anyway.

    Corporations are only a legal device that enables groups and individuals to more easily raise capital. To be anti-corporation makes as much sense as to be anti-cement.


    That is a myth... there is no reliable data to back that up. It is false data made up by the US Chamber.

    I did not know about the BP financial situation. I am not anti-corporation... as I said there are many very responsible corporations out there. But some of them take actions that are anti-American.

    Also, I still dont know the end game of the Occupy Wall Street protest.... what is the goal?
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    Oct 07, 2011 2:13 PM GMT
    Alpha_Muscle said
    riddler78 said
    Alpha_Muscle saidWhile it is true that the government does things that corporate America doesn't like, they spend literally BILLIONS to try to stop them. And a large chunk of that is to brainwash the American people to belevie that being "pro-business" will help them in some way. If you think about it, we let companies decide many things in our lvies and we dont stand up for them. (The reality is that corporations hate lawyers because they routinely stand up to them.)

    There are many responsible corporations out there, but there are plenty that are NOT looking out for America or the best interests of its people.

    That said, the Occupy Wall Street movement does seem innocuous; what is the action plan? What is the end game of this protest? There seems to be NO message. If I were corporate America I would rely on the 48 hour rule... "The American Public won't pay attention to bad press for more than 48 hours."

    Disagree? Do you really beleive that anyone stopped buying gas at BP? They are doing fine, I guarantee.


    No, they really don't spend as much as government trying to maintain relevance. BP if you have been following their finances has had to significantly scale back and sell off assets - if that's what you consider "fine". Corporations look out for the interests of their shareholders and that means looking out for customers. Many businesses hate lawyers because of the costs imposed on them and jackpot justice - costs that ultimately get pushed down on the consumer anyway.

    Corporations are only a legal device that enables groups and individuals to more easily raise capital. To be anti-corporation makes as much sense as to be anti-cement.


    That is a myth... there is no reliable data to back that up. It is false data made up by the US Chamber.

    I did not know about the BP financial situation. I am not anti-corporation... as I said there are many very responsible corporations out there. But some of them take actions that are anti-American.

    Also, I still dont know the end game of the Occupy Wall Street protest.... what is the goal?


    As someone who does have a business, works with a number of companies in the US to make some of their products, product liability and the associated insurance (if they can even get it) is a significant concern. And that's not because they seek to maliciously harm their consumers which they don't. Legal costs are significantly higher in the US than elsewhere - even Canada where liability is limited and where in the US - this applies in both civil and criminal courts, that you can cause damage without intent and be punished severely for it and in some cases with trebling of damages.

    I don't know the end game of Occupy Wall Street but it would seem that some left wing groups want to position it as a movement to counter the tea party movement.
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    Oct 07, 2011 2:18 PM GMT
    Tell ya what Riddler...don't like what we are doing in our country? Stop doing business with American companies.

    The WS-Protesters don't need your validation or support to continue doing what they are doing. All across the nation people have stepped up to support them in numerous ways. So instead of constantly being worried about how much money you can rip off of the American people...worry about how to turn your own country into a fascist "free-market".

    We are going to be going a different route here.

    kthxbye.
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    Oct 07, 2011 2:25 PM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidTell ya what Riddler...don't like what we are doing in our country? Stop doing business with American companies.

    The WS-Protesters don't need your validation or support to continue doing what they are doing. All across the nation people have stepped up to support them in numerous ways. So instead of constantly being worried about how much money you can rip off of the American people...worry about how to turn your own country into a fascist "free-market".

    We are going to be going a different route here.

    kthxbye.


    No they don't need my validation. The irony is that it started with Canadians. Different route? If that route of the small minority they represent is paved with ignorance, than I'd agree - especially as unions seem to have to pay to even have people there and bus them in.
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    Oct 07, 2011 2:30 PM GMT
    Hey, fantastic! If you don't like it, don't do business with American businesses.

    Also this "small minority" you speak of, really isn't that "small". Just because there aren't 2 million people marching on Wall St. doesn't mean the movement isn't heavily supported. Again though, you wouldn't know that 'cus you've already displayed how you've no desire for what really goes on behind the scenes..just whatever you can find to support the Republicans/Tea Party, or trash those who oppose them.


    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidTell ya what Riddler...don't like what we are doing in our country? Stop doing business with American companies.

    The WS-Protesters don't need your validation or support to continue doing what they are doing. All across the nation people have stepped up to support them in numerous ways. So instead of constantly being worried about how much money you can rip off of the American people...worry about how to turn your own country into a fascist "free-market".

    We are going to be going a different route here.

    kthxbye.


    No they don't need my validation. The irony is that it started with Canadians. Different route? If that route of the small minority they represent is paved with ignorance, than I'd agree - especially as unions seem to have to pay to even have people there and bus them in.
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    Oct 07, 2011 2:35 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidTell ya what Riddler...don't like what we are doing in our country? Stop doing business with American companies.

    The WS-Protesters don't need your validation or support to continue doing what they are doing. All across the nation people have stepped up to support them in numerous ways. So instead of constantly being worried about how much money you can rip off of the American people...worry about how to turn your own country into a fascist "free-market".

    We are going to be going a different route here.

    kthxbye.


    No they don't need my validation. The irony is that it started with Canadians. Different route? If that route of the small minority they represent is paved with ignorance, than I'd agree - especially as unions seem to have to pay to even have people there and bus them in.

    Absolutely true. A small minority ignorant and starting to be used by unions.
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    Oct 07, 2011 2:35 PM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidHey, fantastic! If you don't like it, don't do business with American businesses.


    You act as if you represent the views of American consumers or American business. Newsflash: you don't.

    Besides, why would I punish them for the willful ignorance of those like you? "kthxbye" icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Oct 07, 2011 2:57 PM GMT
    And you act like you understand what it's like living in this country under a two-party aristocracy fueled by a capitalist system that you've pushed as the second-coming of Jesus. Newsflash: You don't and it isn't.

    kthxbye.

    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidHey, fantastic! If you don't like it, don't do business with American businesses.


    You act as if you represent the views of American consumers or American business. Newsflash: you don't.

    Besides, why would I punish them for the willful ignorance of those like you? "kthxbye" icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Oct 07, 2011 4:35 PM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidAnd you act like you understand what it's like living in this country under a two-party aristocracy fueled by a capitalist system that you've pushed as the second-coming of Jesus. Newsflash: You don't and it isn't.

    kthxbye.


    Your assumptions about me do you a terrible disservice. Do you have an argument to make or are you like the flakes who are protesting for apparently the sake of protesting without actually understanding any of the underlying issues? Or scapegoating "capitalism" for society's woes despite the widespread underlying government interventions throughout?

    At some point you're going to need to grow up - but your need to subscribe to conspiracy theories and silence the opinions of others is perhaps more telling of the intellectual bankruptcy of your ideas than that of others.

    "kthxbye" icon_rolleyes.gif
  • GQjock

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    Oct 07, 2011 4:53 PM GMT
    absurd?

    Is it as absurd as two trillion dollars going up in smoke ? ....... It being there one day and then poof .... Gone the next
    Because that's what happened when the banks and the financial markets played poker chips with our money

    AND THEN ....... We had to bail them out because they were too big to fail

    THATS what is absurd my friend

    And its a wonder why people weren't yelling in the streets way before this
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    Oct 07, 2011 5:10 PM GMT
    GQjock saidIs it as absurd as two trillion dollars going up in smoke ? ....... It being there one day and then poof .... Gone the next
    Because that's what happened when the banks and the financial markets played poker chips with our money

    AND THEN ....... We had to bail them out because they were too big to fail


    Such a simplistic analysis of the financial crisis. Makes it easy to demonize, but not very thoughtful.

    Yes, I work for "the banks and the financial markets."
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    Oct 08, 2011 12:02 AM GMT
    Riddler, to help you understand how 'corporations run the government' do an experiment on your own, take a hard look at any legislation and policies that have been enacted in the last 5 years under Repubs and Dems, find what the legislation or proposed policy looked like at the begining of its discussion, then enter the verious Lobby money through to the the final bill or policy, then you will see that corporations have considerably more influence than the public. Why is this ? Because those Corp. Lobbies, pay for the Politicians re-election campaigns and there you have the curx of the matter and why Corps run our government.

    Always follow the money to the reason why our government does what it does. follow the money behind foreign policy, Oil interests and US interference in Middle East affairs comes to mind as the most glaring example and look to AIPAC and its affiliate organizations money and influence behind Current Stands Re: Palestine and Israeli Settlements compared to Obamas Idealistic Rhetoric before and during his first year in office. Fanancial Backing has Obama doing an about face. In our corrupt system It is always the money behind the scenes making the rules to a large degree.

    If Americans were to be able to cut the connection between donors money and politicians re-elections you would see much more influence from the citizens as apposed to the Corps.

    We need corporations, but we don't need them buying legislation favorable mainly to them, basicly saying, the hell with what the public and Americas workers need.



    I wish I could have you look in on how much difference there is now compared to the first 30 years of my life, I was born in 53' for reference sake. There's night and day difference for the middle class.
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    Oct 08, 2011 1:32 AM GMT
    realifedad said Riddler, to help you understand how 'corporations run the government' do an experiment on your own, take a hard look at any legislation and policies that have been enacted in the last 5 years under Repubs and Dems, find what the legislation or proposed policy looked like at the begining of its discussion, then enter the verious Lobby money through to the the final bill or policy, then you will see that corporations have considerably more influence than the public. Why is this ? Because those Corp. Lobbies, pay for the Politicians re-election campaigns and there you have the curx of the matter and why Corps run our government.

    Always follow the money to the reason why our government does what it does. follow the money behind foreign policy, Oil interests and US interference in Middle East affairs comes to mind as the most glaring example and look to AIPAC and its affiliate organizations money and influence behind Current Stands Re: Palestine and Israeli Settlements compared to Obamas Idealistic Rhetoric before and during his first year in office. Fanancial Backing has Obama doing an about face. In our corrupt system It is always the money behind the scenes making the rules to a large degree.

    If Americans were to be able to cut the connection between donors money and politicians re-elections you would see much more influence from the citizens as apposed to the Corps.

    We need corporations, but we don't need them buying legislation favorable mainly to them, basicly saying, the hell with what the public and Americas workers need.



    I wish I could have you look in on how much difference there is now compared to the first 30 years of my life, I was born in 53' for reference sake. There's night and day difference for the middle class.
    Riddler was born with a silver spoon.. He'll NEVER 'get it'..
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    Oct 08, 2011 1:38 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    showme said
    GQjock saidIs it as absurd as two trillion dollars going up in smoke ? ....... It being there one day and then poof .... Gone the next
    Because that's what happened when the banks and the financial markets played poker chips with our money

    AND THEN ....... We had to bail them out because they were too big to fail


    Such a simplistic analysis of the financial crisis. Makes it easy to demonize, but not very thoughtful.

    Yes, I work for "the banks and the financial markets."



    You're not supposed to "break ranks" on here and attack another liberal. Very bad. icon_evil.gif
    Isnt that amazing.. too bad you cant do that!
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    Oct 08, 2011 4:59 AM GMT
    The only terrible disservice I've done for myself is engaging in conversation with you. To which I seem to be still doing.

    You live in Canada. I live in Alabama You haven't the slightest idea what it's like to live under the Republican vision of a "union-less uninhibited free-market."

    So you can keep talking your cheap game because it all amounts to an ounce of jack-shittery to me when you blow smoke on a gay forum about issues you obviously have never had a first hand experience of.

    You come live here for five years...then tell me your almighty opinion of capitalism doesn't change. Until then, you'll always just come across as the lackey with an agenda.

    Agenda away Riddler, agenda away.


    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidAnd you act like you understand what it's like living in this country under a two-party aristocracy fueled by a capitalist system that you've pushed as the second-coming of Jesus. Newsflash: You don't and it isn't.

    kthxbye.


    Your assumptions about me do you a terrible disservice. Do you have an argument to make or are you like the flakes who are protesting for apparently the sake of protesting without actually understanding any of the underlying issues? Or scapegoating "capitalism" for society's woes despite the widespread underlying government interventions throughout?

    At some point you're going to need to grow up - but your need to subscribe to conspiracy theories and silence the opinions of others is perhaps more telling of the intellectual bankruptcy of your ideas than that of others.

    "kthxbye" icon_rolleyes.gif