A privileged protest - the "super rich" joining in protesting? Srsly?

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    Oct 11, 2011 10:30 PM GMT
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047664/Occupy-Wall-Street-Children-1-good-time-protests.html

    This is just beyond farcical. Kanye West shows up with his expensive clothes protesting the rich? Simmons giving a speech? Other celebrities doing the same thing? Privileged kids living off of their parents and going to schools which cost 200k in fees?

    Just scroll down, it's all there!
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    Oct 11, 2011 11:04 PM GMT
    Or, it could be that Kanye and Simmons haven't forgotten where they came from, understand how lucky they were and what great opportunities this country gave them, and want the same for the 99%.
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    Oct 11, 2011 11:27 PM GMT
    Of course it's not possible that another human being might, just maybe, give a fuck about another human being. That's not likely at all. Nah, they must be full of shit for having reflected critically on their own privilege.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Oct 11, 2011 11:31 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047664/Occupy-Wall-Street-Children-1-good-time-protests.html

    This is just beyond farcical. Kanye West shows up with his expensive clothes protesting the rich? Simmons giving a speech? Other celebrities doing the same thing? Privileged kids living off of their parents and going to schools which cost 200k in fees?

    Just scroll down, it's all there!


    Haha icon_biggrin.gif

    But they're not PAYING for it

    The Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party
    By FRANK RICH
    Published: August 28, 2010
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html
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    Oct 12, 2011 12:03 AM GMT
    There's a familliar critique of protest movements that seems to emerge from the right every time a group like OWS pops up which attempts to derail the discussion by focusing on some of the hypocrisies of the members rather than the actual points being put forward. A simillar critique came from the right during the alter/anti-globalization protests in Toronto/Quebec City. They said that because the members used the commodities that the companies they were protesting produced, then their critique was null and void as though they were protesting their iphones as opposed to the sweatshop conditions that produced them.

    The reality is that we are subjects produced by the conditions of capital so there is an inherent hypocrisy in protesting the conditions that privilege us. But this is besides the point. There's something called "solidarity", which originates from "empathy" and "community" (concepts I'm sure are beyond your grasp, but indulge me) that are being invoked here.

    In my mind there is error in any movement which suggests that capitalism has failed because capitalism is only meant to do one thing which is to produce and generate capital. Nowhere are justice and equality in the game plan. In fact injustice and inequality are required in order for capital to function as exploitation is inherent in the generation of capital. The fact that these protestors have generally failed to realize this suggests a lack of critical thinking on their part. Do you protest a dog for licking it's own balls? Of course not, that's what it was designed to do.

    That being said, I think we'd be showing erroneous logic in trying to thing that we can pin down an entire protest movement to a single message. There are hundreds of people out there on a daily basis and so we can only assume that there are hundreds of reasons that people are protesting.
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    Oct 12, 2011 1:05 AM GMT
    Fountains saidOf course it's not possible that another human being might, just maybe, give a fuck about another human being. That's not likely at all. Nah, they must be full of shit for having reflected critically on their own privilege.


    So why are they wearing expensive clothes to the protest? Why not just start handing out money to their impoverished comrades seeing that they are the "super rich" who are apparently all guilty because they became successful at the expense of "everyone else".

    Oh wait, I forgot, if someone makes money on "wall-street" (which is comical anyway because the vast majority of "wallstreet" is uber liberal and and supports leftwing policies, not to mention that much of what is considered "wallstreet" doesn't even operate there anymore) it's illegitimate money robbing from the poor, but if they make it in hollywood or with a top 40 hit song it's all legit!

    The fact that you can't even begin to see how moronic this is, is mindblowing.

    It's like "hey guys, I'm here to protest against myself for being able to sit here and live off of my parents and protest!".
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    Oct 12, 2011 1:11 AM GMT
    I wouldn't consider celebs in the "super-rich" category.
    Very wealthy, yes, but not super-rich.
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    Oct 12, 2011 1:13 AM GMT
    Fountains saidOf course it's not possible that another human being might, just maybe, give a fuck about another human being. That's not likely at all. Nah, they must be full of shit for having reflected critically on their own privilege.


    O RLY.
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    Oct 12, 2011 1:14 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidI wouldn't consider celebs in the "super-rich" category.
    Very wealthy, yes, but not super-rich.


    Ohh yess, the super rich would be Warren Buffett and Bill Gates -- who are liberal. lol
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    Oct 12, 2011 1:49 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    paulflexes saidI wouldn't consider celebs in the "super-rich" category.
    Very wealthy, yes, but not super-rich.


    Ohh yess, the super rich would be Warren Buffett and Bill Gates -- who are liberal. lol


    Yes. And the Koch Brothers and the Waltons, etc. You're also confusing progressive stances on social issues, healthcare, etc. and finance. Gates' positions on education reform are actually quite anti-union and not very progressive at all.

    The world is far more nuanced than you care to admit. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Oct 12, 2011 2:15 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    mocktwinkie said
    paulflexes saidI wouldn't consider celebs in the "super-rich" category.
    Very wealthy, yes, but not super-rich.


    Ohh yess, the super rich would be Warren Buffett and Bill Gates -- who are liberal. lol


    Yes. And the Koch Brothers and the Waltons, etc. You're also confusing progressive stances on social issues, healthcare, etc. and finance. Gates' positions on education reform are actually quite anti-union and not very progressive at all.

    The world is far more nuanced than you care to admit. icon_rolleyes.gif


    The line I emboldened can be used pretty much to counter anything mocktwinkie has to offer in a debate.

    Kanye West shows up in expensive clothes because he can afford to and he chooses to. That still does not take away from the message he supports. If he decided to wear cheaper clothes to "fit in," it would be a sham. We know he doesn't dress like that, so why should he?

    As for your suggestion that the rich supporters should just dole out money — that's still not going to fix the problem.

    I'm sure you heard the proverb of give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime. Rich liberals can attempt to directly give money to those facing hardships, but the system in place would still remain. The problem would not be solved.

    People at the protests may vent against the rich and capitalism. Some may actually mean it, and some are not accurately pinpointing their frustration. But the heart of the matter is that they are fed up with the corruption in our economy.

    Even you, mocktwinkie, said that we should give the benefit of the doubt that those who support a free trade market, don't really mean they want it completely free as they don't mind some regulation. I would hope you could give the protesters the same benefit to Occupy Wall Street protesters that many do support capitalism, but not in its vile form that we are witnessing span across the globe.

    It's hard to understand you sometimes mocktwinkie. I don't know whether you really mean some of the things you say, or you're just trying to push buttons. Because if you cannot understand the simple concept of empathy and how even those with money can support a cause that wishes to undo the crapitalism, as IHG84 calls it, then there is no hope for you.
  • creature

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    Oct 12, 2011 2:27 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    creature said
    Kanye West shows up in expensive clothes because he can afford to and he chooses to. That still does not take away from the message he supports.


    Kind of like Al Gore and his multiple mansions each with dozens of bedrooms and a carbon footprint larger than a small village.


    I'm aware of Al Gore's carbon footprint. A co-worker (not at this current job) is a good friend of someone whose family apparently knows the Gores. When he was in their house there were lights left on in several rooms, even when nobody was currently occupying the rooms.

    But even if Gore doesn't practice what he preaches, it doesn't mean there is no truth about his message. But that's for another discussion.

  • Oct 12, 2011 2:30 AM GMT
    SO these children ( ugly as sin btw) who attend schools of 200,000 some thousand dollars, its fine for them to protest coporate greed,capitalism , individual success ??? when thier parents are probably rolling in 500 k - 1mill a year ? These people are marching in WEALTHY NIEGHBORHOODS ! Just like the communist did in Russia ! they hate success because they are unable to achieve due to a number of reasons ( ugliness internal and external, laziness, stupidity, moral corruption etc) its disgusting. Kanye got rich by this "system"
  • creature

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    Oct 12, 2011 2:39 AM GMT
    BoatnSunshine77 saidSO these children ( ugly as sin btw) who attend schools of 200,000 some thousand dollars, its fine for them to protest coporate greed,capitalism , individual success ??? when thier parents are probably rolling in 500 k - 1mill a year ? These people are marching in WEALTHY NIEGHBORHOODS ! Just like the communist did in Russia ! they hate success because they are unable to achieve due to a number of reasons ( ugliness internal and external, laziness, stupidity, moral corruption etc) its disgusting. Kanye got rich by this "system"


    Do you actually believe that everything is fine as is? That no more regulations need to be put in place?

    And mocking people's physical appearance (e.g., "ugly as sin") is not a way to win a debate on the merits of the protest.

    Would you like to try again?
  • creature

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    Oct 12, 2011 3:00 AM GMT
    Southbeach,

    Even though the problems are varied, let's say that we do have regulations in place to solve all the problems that are at the core of the protests (though I doubt it). I wonder if people like BoatnSunshine have an issue with the enforcement of those laws, or are they satisfied with the way Wall Street operates as is.

    I believe that if you support even an iota of what the protesters are demanding then you should explicitly say so and we can move forward to come to a consensus as to how to solve the problem that we all agree needs to be taken care of. Instead of dismissing all the demands Occupy Wall Street, why not focus on the shared goals.

    Just like the Tea Party movement. Something that even liberals can agree mostly on is the huge budget of the Department of Defense and the unrestrained contracts. Unfortunately that's going to be hard since a lot of Republicans still want to keep it as is, and even grow it.
  • creature

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    Oct 12, 2011 3:15 AM GMT
    As I already mentioned above in a previous post, the core of the message is to eradicate the corruption and to ensure there are safeguards in place to protect people from negligence and greedy banking practices. And if those safeguards already exist, to make sure they are enforced.

    Despite the claims by some conservative members on this site, not everyone who supports Occupy Wall Street is in favor of eliminating capitalism and putting up a purely socialist nation in its place. There are a few radicals there, but I think most are fine with capitalism, so long as it has heart.

    theory-moral-sentiments-adam-smith-paper

    Edite to add:

    Southbeach, do you believe you have a common gripe with the protesters regarding the behavior of Wall Street? Do you see the need for any reforms? Are there any regulations you believe are not being strongly enforced?
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    Oct 12, 2011 5:40 AM GMT
    The daily mail is just the UK's version of the NYpost
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Oct 12, 2011 6:04 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidOr, it could be that Kanye and Simmons haven't forgotten where they came from, understand how lucky they were and what great opportunities this country gave them, and want the same for the 99%.



    Ask them what they pay the guys who work in the mailroom of their record labels....ask the secretaries and assistants who work 12 and 14 hour days or more running these pompous hypocrites lives what they get paid. These guys are full of shit, looking for a photo op to make them look good. Don't believe the hype. They spend more money on Cristal champagne and diamond crested wrist watches than 90% of their employees make in a whole year.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Oct 12, 2011 10:57 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 saidOr, it could be that Kanye and Simmons haven't forgotten where they came from, understand how lucky they were and what great opportunities this country gave them, and want the same for the 99%.



    Ask them what they pay the guys who work in the mailroom of their record labels....ask the secretaries and assistants who work 12 and 14 hour days or more running these pompous hypocrites lives what they get paid. These guys are full of shit, looking for a photo op to make them look good. Don't believe the hype. They spend more money on Cristal champagne and diamond crested wrist watches than 90% of their employees make in a whole year.


    Whoa-whoa-whoa ...... why all the consternation about some Hip-hop artists
    Whether or not some CD packers make enough money or not is a WHOLE different story

    We didn't Bail out record labels
    We didn't send TARP money to Kanye's caterers

    We sent it to Wall Street ... and we sent to the Banks

    Who are given us the Big Bronx cheer ... sayin Thanx and Now go F**k yourselves

    THATS why they are Protesting in the Streets
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    Oct 12, 2011 1:18 PM GMT
    creature said
    Christian73 said
    mocktwinkie said
    paulflexes saidI wouldn't consider celebs in the "super-rich" category.
    Very wealthy, yes, but not super-rich.


    Ohh yess, the super rich would be Warren Buffett and Bill Gates -- who are liberal. lol


    Yes. And the Koch Brothers and the Waltons, etc. You're also confusing progressive stances on social issues, healthcare, etc. and finance. Gates' positions on education reform are actually quite anti-union and not very progressive at all.

    The world is far more nuanced than you care to admit. icon_rolleyes.gif


    The line I emboldened can be used pretty much to counter anything mocktwinkie has to offer in a debate.

    Kanye West shows up in expensive clothes because he can afford to and he chooses to. That still does not take away from the message he supports. If he decided to wear cheaper clothes to "fit in," it would be a sham. We know he doesn't dress like that, so why should he?

    As for your suggestion that the rich supporters should just dole out money — that's still not going to fix the problem.

    I'm sure you heard the proverb of give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime. Rich liberals can attempt to directly give money to those facing hardships, but the system in place would still remain. The problem would not be solved.

    People at the protests may vent against the rich and capitalism. Some may actually mean it, and some are not accurately pinpointing their frustration. But the heart of the matter is that they are fed up with the corruption in our economy.

    Even you, mocktwinkie, said that we should give the benefit of the doubt that those who support a free trade market, don't really mean they want it completely free as they don't mind some regulation. I would hope you could give the protesters the same benefit to Occupy Wall Street protesters that many do support capitalism, but not in its vile form that we are witnessing span across the globe.

    It's hard to understand you sometimes mocktwinkie. I don't know whether you really mean some of the things you say, or you're just trying to push buttons. Because if you cannot understand the simple concept of empathy and how even those with money can support a cause that wishes to undo the crapitalism, as IHG84 calls it, then there is no hope for you.


    There has been some corporate welfare (only in terms of not equally applying the rules for everyone) but it accounts for like what, 4% of the national debt? The main problem is that we spend too much.

    That is why I love Paul Ryan's plan because he wants to reduce the overall tax rates for everyone and small businesses while at the same time getting a lot of revenue back from closing all of the large corporate welfare loopholes that haven't been equally enjoyed by everyone else.
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    Oct 12, 2011 1:21 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 saidOr, it could be that Kanye and Simmons haven't forgotten where they came from, understand how lucky they were and what great opportunities this country gave them, and want the same for the 99%.



    Ask them what they pay the guys who work in the mailroom of their record labels....ask the secretaries and assistants who work 12 and 14 hour days or more running these pompous hypocrites lives what they get paid. These guys are full of shit, looking for a photo op to make them look good. Don't believe the hype. They spend more money on Cristal champagne and diamond crested wrist watches than 90% of their employees make in a whole year.


    Well that's just it, why not step up to the plate and pay everyone contributing to their success more than what the corporations are paying their workers if it's really something they care about?
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    Oct 12, 2011 4:18 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    creature said

    Southbeach, do you believe you have a common gripe with the protesters regarding the behavior of Wall Street?


    No.



    creature said

    Do you see the need for any reforms?


    No.



    creature said Are there any regulations you believe are not being strongly enforced?


    Yes, as there are millions of pages of regulations, I'm sure only a very small % are being enforced at all, as most people (including the regulators) have no idea what's in the Federal Register.


    Look at the expansion of the USCA and CFR and of course the proposed regs and rules in the FR over the last 30 or 40 years or so. It’s almost impossible for a small business to fully comply with all this and the expense and time to make the attempt make you wonder how and when they find time to get around to doing business. The entire system in collapsing upon itself.

  • Oct 12, 2011 4:41 PM GMT
    I like to mention the physical appearance only because it seems that MOST of the liberals are extremely sickly looking very pale etc -- very good indicators they never leave the indoors and most likely do not have hard , manual labor jobs. Just my personal opinion.

    as for regulations. THEY ARE KILLING US !!!!

    FREE MARKETS - WITH ETHICS !

    of course i support ethical business
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Oct 12, 2011 4:47 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    GQjock said
    We didn't Bail out record labels
    We didn't send TARP money to Kanye's caterers

    We sent it to Wall Street ... and we sent to the Banks

    Who are given us the Big Bronx cheer ... sayin Thanx and Now go F**k yourselves

    THATS why they are Protesting in the Streets



    The banks paid back all the money (with interest). Are the protesters aware of that? Are you aware of that? Are the protesters upset that the banks were bailed out in the first place? If so, why aren't they protesting the politicians in Washington DC who voted for the bailout?

    Lots of questions. Lots of ambiguity. Not a clear message.


    LOL ..... Ambiguity huh?

    How's that B of A surcharge for using YOUR OWN MONEY when you use a debit card

    THAT AMBIGUOUS ENOUGH FO YA? icon_rolleyes.gif