What reasons have you heard for being gay/bi etc to be wrong

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 15, 2011 11:40 PM GMT
    Today i heard a comment from someone at university saying (this was at a fair for sports and other things) "if i had my way gays would not be aloud to do anything because its un-natural, i said he was a C**T and walked off,

    what reasons have you heard in your past and what did you do or think of this, can be religious, political etc,

    would be interesting to know what "reasons" people think its ok to express this
    sorry if this topic is a bit off, im just wondering why people say these sort of things grrrrr
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 16, 2011 12:21 AM GMT
    It's a siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin! icon_twisted.gif
  • masculumpedes

    Posts: 5549

    Oct 16, 2011 12:49 AM GMT
    Let me get my typed list.....icon_confused.gif
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    Oct 16, 2011 12:56 AM GMT
    There are three classic arguments against homosexuality. Each argument is fundamentally flawed, and each one has a simple and effective counterargument. Let’s deconstruct all three. Ready?

    ARGUMENT #1: CHOICE
    Many people say that being gay is a choice. This is complete nonsense. No one chooses their desires, whether it be sexual attraction or favorite foods or what color shirt to wear. You see something and it looks good to you, and you want it. Simple as that. You can no more choose to desire women over men than you can choose which woman or man appeals to you.

    In fact, when a guy says that being gay is a choice, it sounds to me like what he’s really saying is he finds men sexually attractive too. Otherwise, there’s no choice to be made. The only person who can say that being gay is a choice is one who truly believes that all men are bisexual by nature.

    On the other hand, while desire is clearly not by choice, engaging in sexual activity with men clearly is. But would anyone really prefer that you have sex with someone you’re not attracted to, and can’t fall in love with, than someone who will make you happy?

    My mother was a big believer that you can “learn to like” things that don’t appeal to you. Asparagus, for instance. The idea was, you put a little bit of asparagus in a casserole or a stew or whatever, and increase the amount a little each time you make it, and eventually you’ll like it (or maybe just learn to live with it). I suppose something like that could work for liking women as well. But even my mother didn’t have a formula for learning to dislike things that do appeal to you. Moreover, I just never found a reason to give up things that appeal to me in favor of something that doesn’t. If I can have an ice cream sundae, why would I waste my time learning to like asparagus?

    Case closed on Argument #1.

    ARGUMENT #2: NATURE
    People say that being gay is unnatural. This is complete nonsense too. As I said above, no one chooses what to desire, so your desires must be in your nature. Whether it’s something you were born with or whether it’s a conditioned response, it is a natural response for you. It’s in your nature, and it’s not something anyone can change.

    Of course, the male-male sex act is unnatural, from a purely biological standpoint. A guy’s dick did not evolve for the purpose of sticking it up another guy’s ass. But guys have anal sex with women, and some women even prefer it, and it’s every bit as unnatural. Blow jobs are unnatural too. Are straight guys willing to do away with those?

    In fact, we spend a lot of time performing unnatural acts of one sort or another. Wearing clothes, living in houses, driving cars, eating processed food, typing on computers – none of these have any place in natural human evolution. With all this unnatural behavior going on, it seems a little arbitrary to draw the line at who you sleep with.

    And, interestingly enough, if you’re going to use Argument #2, Argument #1 goes right out the window. Because if you can truly choose who to be attracted to, you’re essentially admitting that having those desires is in your nature. And if feeling an attraction for women requires my mother’s approach of conditioned behavior, then desiring women certainly isn’t natural for you.

    Case closed on Argument #2.

    ARGUMENT #3: RELIGION
    Leviticus 18:22 says, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.” No getting around that, if Judeo-Christian religion is your thing. But then again, I’ve never once lain with a man as if he was a woman. What would be the fun in that?

    I guess I can make the interpretation (dangerous as it may be) that what the Bible really means is, “Thou shalt not have sex with guys.” Seems clear enough. But then again, the Bible says “Thou shalt not” a lot of things, and a lot of them are things God-fearing people do every day without a second thought, and having gay sex didn’t even make the Top Ten. So I thought I’d do some digging and figure out just how bad having sex with guys really is.

    Leviticus says don’t do it because “it is an abomination.” That’s a word that doesn’t come up too regularly, even in the Bible. In fact, it’s only ever used two other times.

    Leviticus 11:12 “Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.”

    Leviticus 20:25 “…ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.”

    So, basically, having sex with guys is just as bad as eating pork or shrimp or oysters.

    Of course, Christians claim they get a hall pass on keeping a kosher kitchen, due to this line spoken by Jesus to the critics of his disciples:

    Matthew 15:11 “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.”

    It seems to me it was meant as more of a snappy retort than a policy statement, but if it works for them, it should work for us too. Sounds to me like giving head is fine with Jesus, as long as you swallow and don’t spit.

    But then again, “Thou shalt not” seems like pretty strong words. The kind that are usually attached to bad behavior like committing adultery. What does Jesus have to say about that?

    Matthew 5:28 “…whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

    Matthew 5:32 “…whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.”

    So, anyone who marries a woman on her second time around, or anyone who gets a hard dick when he sees a hot chick, has broken a “Thou shalt not.” And anyone who eats pork or shrimp or oysters has committed an abomination. We may be on the outs with God, but I think we’ve got plenty of company.

    And, by the way, if you’re using Argument #3 you can forget about Argument #2. If nothing else, God is not “natural”. And the very premise of religion is that people should aspire to unnatural behavior.

    Case closed on Argument #3.

    So, there you have it. There really isn’t any good argument against being gay. There are only things that people say to take the burden of acceptance off themselves and place the burden of guilt on you. But please, remember above all that this is not your problem. You have done nothing wrong. You are only being true to what is natural for you, and people will have to either grow up and deal with it, or stay closed-minded and stew in their own hate.
  • Trauts

    Posts: 1012

    Oct 16, 2011 2:18 AM GMT
    Athaleet saidThere are three classic arguments against homosexuality. Each argument is fundamentally flawed, and each one has a simple and effective counterargument. Let’s deconstruct all three. Ready?

    ARGUMENT #1: CHOICE
    Many people say that being gay is a choice. This is complete nonsense. No one chooses their desires, whether it be sexual attraction or favorite foods or what color shirt to wear. You see something and it looks good to you, and you want it. Simple as that. You can no more choose to desire women over men than you can choose which woman or man appeals to you.

    In fact, when a guy says that being gay is a choice, it sounds to me like what he’s really saying is he finds men sexually attractive too. Otherwise, there’s no choice to be made. The only person who can say that being gay is a choice is one who truly believes that all men are bisexual by nature.

    On the other hand, while desire is clearly not by choice, engaging in sexual activity with men clearly is. But would anyone really prefer that you have sex with someone you’re not attracted to, and can’t fall in love with, than someone who will make you happy?

    My mother was a big believer that you can “learn to like” things that don’t appeal to you. Asparagus, for instance. The idea was, you put a little bit of asparagus in a casserole or a stew or whatever, and increase the amount a little each time you make it, and eventually you’ll like it (or maybe just learn to live with it). I suppose something like that could work for liking women as well. But even my mother didn’t have a formula for learning to dislike things that do appeal to you. Moreover, I just never found a reason to give up things that appeal to me in favor of something that doesn’t. If I can have an ice cream sundae, why would I waste my time learning to like asparagus?

    Case closed on Argument #1.

    ARGUMENT #2: NATURE
    People say that being gay is unnatural. This is complete nonsense too. As I said above, no one chooses what to desire, so your desires must be in your nature. Whether it’s something you were born with or whether it’s a conditioned response, it is a natural response for you. It’s in your nature, and it’s not something anyone can change.

    Of course, the male-male sex act is unnatural, from a purely biological standpoint. A guy’s dick did not evolve for the purpose of sticking it up another guy’s ass. But guys have anal sex with women, and some women even prefer it, and it’s every bit as unnatural. Blow jobs are unnatural too. Are straight guys willing to do away with those?

    In fact, we spend a lot of time performing unnatural acts of one sort or another. Wearing clothes, living in houses, driving cars, eating processed food, typing on computers – none of these have any place in natural human evolution. With all this unnatural behavior going on, it seems a little arbitrary to draw the line at who you sleep with.

    And, interestingly enough, if you’re going to use Argument #2, Argument #1 goes right out the window. Because if you can truly choose who to be attracted to, you’re essentially admitting that having those desires is in your nature. And if feeling an attraction for women requires my mother’s approach of conditioned behavior, then desiring women certainly isn’t natural for you.

    Case closed on Argument #2.

    ARGUMENT #3: RELIGION
    Leviticus 18:22 says, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.” No getting around that, if Judeo-Christian religion is your thing. But then again, I’ve never once lain with a man as if he was a woman. What would be the fun in that?

    I guess I can make the interpretation (dangerous as it may be) that what the Bible really means is, “Thou shalt not have sex with guys.” Seems clear enough. But then again, the Bible says “Thou shalt not” a lot of things, and a lot of them are things God-fearing people do every day without a second thought, and having gay sex didn’t even make the Top Ten. So I thought I’d do some digging and figure out just how bad having sex with guys really is.

    Leviticus says don’t do it because “it is an abomination.” That’s a word that doesn’t come up too regularly, even in the Bible. In fact, it’s only ever used two other times.

    Leviticus 11:12 “Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.”

    Leviticus 20:25 “…ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.”

    So, basically, having sex with guys is just as bad as eating pork or shrimp or oysters.

    Of course, Christians claim they get a hall pass on keeping a kosher kitchen, due to this line spoken by Jesus to the critics of his disciples:

    Matthew 15:11 “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.”

    It seems to me it was meant as more of a snappy retort than a policy statement, but if it works for them, it should work for us too. Sounds to me like giving head is fine with Jesus, as long as you swallow and don’t spit.

    But then again, “Thou shalt not” seems like pretty strong words. The kind that are usually attached to bad behavior like committing adultery. What does Jesus have to say about that?

    Matthew 5:28 “…whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

    Matthew 5:32 “…whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.”

    So, anyone who marries a woman on her second time around, or anyone who gets a hard dick when he sees a hot chick, has broken a “Thou shalt not.” And anyone who eats pork or shrimp or oysters has committed an abomination. We may be on the outs with God, but I think we’ve got plenty of company.

    And, by the way, if you’re using Argument #3 you can forget about Argument #2. If nothing else, God is not “natural”. And the very premise of religion is that people should aspire to unnatural behavior.

    Case closed on Argument #3.

    So, there you have it. There really isn’t any good argument against being gay. There are only things that people say to take the burden of acceptance off themselves and place the burden of guilt on you. But please, remember above all that this is not your problem. You have done nothing wrong. You are only being true to what is natural for you, and people will have to either grow up and deal with it, or stay closed-minded and stew in their own hate.


    Yea, I think the replies to this thread are pretty much summed up here. Haha.

    Thanks Athaleet, enjoyed reading it icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 16, 2011 2:28 AM GMT
    Reasons being gay is OH SO RIGHT:

    (See Athaleet's pictures)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 16, 2011 7:57 AM GMT
    Here's my list...

    1. It is a sin
    2. It is unnatural
    ------ It is a choice
    ------ It is psychological
    ----------- Lack of a father figure
    ----------- Need for male acceptance
    ----------- Curiosity/temptation makes you interested in it
    3. It is gross
    ------ Penis + Anus = Disgust
    4. Health issues
    ------ Your penis will puncture your colon wall
    ------ You will get HIV and other diseases
    5. Marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman
    ------ Largely due to reproduction
    ------ Sex feeling good is just a bonus
    6. You will be unhappy
    ------ People bullying and discriminating against you
    ------ You won't have children, and those are necessary for a fulfilled life
  • Tyinstl

    Posts: 353

    Oct 16, 2011 8:27 AM GMT
    I'm not a Christian, but I used to be. I can tell you why Christians are against homosexuality.

    Le BibleRomans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."


    as well as 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, but that one is less clear. The New Testament is firm in its denouncement of homosexuality. Jesus, despite no doubt being aware of homosexuality, referred to marriage as between a man and woman explicitly.

    To answer OP's question, this is why Christians believe having gay sex (not being gay) is wrong. They love God and want to avoid doing what he tells them not to do (and want others to do this and avoid hell as well).