Steve Jobs, World's Greatest Philanthropist

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    Oct 16, 2011 6:19 AM GMT
    See link for a lot more.

    http://blogs.hbr.org/pallotta/2011/09/steve-jobs-worlds-greatest-phi.html

    Editor's note: This post was written in early September, after Steve Jobs retired. Upon the news of his death, we think it's worth another read.

    A student at one of my talks on the nonprofit sector asked if I could name a for-profit company that was making a difference on the scale that nonprofits do. I said I'd be hard-pressed to name one that wasn't.

    Our youth are growing up with the strange notion that the only way to make a big difference in this world, or to be of service, is to work for a nonprofit organization, or become the next Bill Gates and establish a private foundation, or to start some kind of "social enterprise," often without any understanding of what that means.

    [...] What a loss to humanity it would have been if Jobs had dedicated the last 25 years of his life to figuring out how to give his billions away, instead of doing what he does best.
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    Oct 16, 2011 12:11 PM GMT
    A person - particularly one with the wealth and capacity of someone like Jobs - can do both. And he did. He just didn't do it very publicly.
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    Oct 16, 2011 2:14 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidA person - particularly one with the wealth and capacity of someone like Jobs - can do both. And he did. He just didn't do it very publicly.


    Except he did far more for humanity as a businessman than he ever could have in donating to or working for charities - and that's the life choice he made.
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    Oct 16, 2011 2:29 PM GMT
    Plus over half of the non-profits i have worked with run there operations on apple computers ;)
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    Oct 16, 2011 2:41 PM GMT
    Shame that they are built (like most everything these days) on the backs of poor Chinese (and other) workers... so morally I don't really place Apple above anything else.

    And don't lecture me on how capitalism works. I just can't see Apple in some sort of "superstar" light given this and other things I've heard about how Steve Jobs could treat employees.
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:00 PM GMT
    _freestyle saidShame that they are built (like most everything these days) on the backs of poor Chinese (and other) workers... so morally I don't really place Apple above anything else.

    And don't lecture me on how capitalism works. I just can't see Apple in some sort of "superstar" light given this and other things I've heard about how Steve Jobs could treat employees.


    Why is it a shame? Do poor Chinese people not deserve jobs? Wages have been increasing rapidly in China - and it's market reforms that have resulted in the greatest reduction in numbers of those in absolute poverty in the history of humanity. Capitalism doesn't work? Try socialism.

    Steve Jobs was not perfect. He was human - this shouldn't be news to you.
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:02 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidShame that they are built (like most everything these days) on the backs of poor Chinese (and other) workers... so morally I don't really place Apple above anything else.

    And don't lecture me on how capitalism works. I just can't see Apple in some sort of "superstar" light given this and other things I've heard about how Steve Jobs could treat employees.


    Why is it a shame? Do poor Chinese people not deserve jobs? Wages have been increasing rapidly in China - and it's market reforms that have resulted in the greatest reduction in numbers of those in absolute poverty in the history of humanity. Capitalism doesn't work? Try socialism.


    Yes...jobs in which for some reason these people seem to enjoy killing themselves rather than work...
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:02 PM GMT
    I knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:04 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidShame that they are built (like most everything these days) on the backs of poor Chinese (and other) workers... so morally I don't really place Apple above anything else.

    And don't lecture me on how capitalism works. I just can't see Apple in some sort of "superstar" light given this and other things I've heard about how Steve Jobs could treat employees.


    Why is it a shame? Do poor Chinese people not deserve jobs? Wages have been increasing rapidly in China - and it's market reforms that have resulted in the greatest reduction in numbers of those in absolute poverty in the history of humanity. Capitalism doesn't work? Try socialism.


    Yes...jobs in which for some reason these people seem to enjoy killing themselves rather than work...


    Yeah - how many people did that? How many people worked there? How does this compare to the suicide rates for say any country in the Western world?
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:05 PM GMT
    _freestyle saidI knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.


    Riddler is a firm supporter of "greed is good". To him your worth net worth and worth as a human being are pretty much the same thing.
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:07 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidShame that they are built (like most everything these days) on the backs of poor Chinese (and other) workers... so morally I don't really place Apple above anything else.

    And don't lecture me on how capitalism works. I just can't see Apple in some sort of "superstar" light given this and other things I've heard about how Steve Jobs could treat employees.


    Why is it a shame? Do poor Chinese people not deserve jobs? Wages have been increasing rapidly in China - and it's market reforms that have resulted in the greatest reduction in numbers of those in absolute poverty in the history of humanity. Capitalism doesn't work? Try socialism.


    Yes...jobs in which for some reason these people seem to enjoy killing themselves rather than work...


    Yeah - how many people did that? How many people worked there? How does this compare to the suicide rates for say any country in the Western world?


    http://labornotes.org/blogs/2010/06/suicides-apple-factory-china-rock-sweatshop-supply-system

    12 people all from the same factory.
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:11 PM GMT
    _freestyle saidI knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.


    Then you should consider reading other sources. Each of these workers isn't forced to work there - to call it slave labor purposely dehumanizes them for your own personal motives. Each of these workers chose to do what they do because it was better than the alternatives - and it's far better than what any Western country went through. Far better.

    Capitalism and markets have done far more to improve living standards of people around the world than the totality of not for profits - far more - and is directly responsible for the mass reductions in absolute poverty and improving rates of nutrition. This is the direct result of millions of entrepreneurs like Jobs pursuing profit/needs of customers.
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:13 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidShame that they are built (like most everything these days) on the backs of poor Chinese (and other) workers... so morally I don't really place Apple above anything else.

    And don't lecture me on how capitalism works. I just can't see Apple in some sort of "superstar" light given this and other things I've heard about how Steve Jobs could treat employees.


    Why is it a shame? Do poor Chinese people not deserve jobs? Wages have been increasing rapidly in China - and it's market reforms that have resulted in the greatest reduction in numbers of those in absolute poverty in the history of humanity. Capitalism doesn't work? Try socialism.


    Yes...jobs in which for some reason these people seem to enjoy killing themselves rather than work...


    Yeah - how many people did that? How many people worked there? How does this compare to the suicide rates for say any country in the Western world?


    http://labornotes.org/blogs/2010/06/suicides-apple-factory-china-rock-sweatshop-supply-system

    12 people all from the same factory.


    Um no - not from the same factory. From the same company that employs nearly a million people.
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:13 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidI knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.


    Then you should consider reading other sources. Each of these workers isn't forced to work there - to call it slave labor purposely dehumanizes them for your own personal motives. Each of these workers chose to do what they do because it was better than the alternatives - and it's far better than what any Western country went through. Far better.

    Capitalism and markets have done far more to improve living standards of people around the world than the totality of not for profits - far more - and is directly responsible for the mass reductions in absolute poverty and improving rates of nutrition. This is the direct result of millions of entrepreneurs like Jobs pursuing profit/needs of customers.



    You have a very narrow view of slave labor...you think if these people COULD find better jobs they would continue to work these jobs?
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:16 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidI knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.


    Then you should consider reading other sources. Each of these workers isn't forced to work there - to call it slave labor purposely dehumanizes them for your own personal motives. Each of these workers chose to do what they do because it was better than the alternatives - and it's far better than what any Western country went through. Far better.

    Capitalism and markets have done far more to improve living standards of people around the world than the totality of not for profits - far more - and is directly responsible for the mass reductions in absolute poverty and improving rates of nutrition. This is the direct result of millions of entrepreneurs like Jobs pursuing profit/needs of customers.



    You have a very narrow view of slave labor...you think if these people COULD find better jobs they would continue to work these jobs?


    I take a very literal definition of slave labor - and I don't dehumanize these workers like you'd like to. It's not surprising considering where you get your information from though.

    Do you think anyone would work their current jobs if they could find better ones?
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:17 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidI knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.


    Then you should consider reading other sources. Each of these workers isn't forced to work there - to call it slave labor purposely dehumanizes them for your own personal motives. Each of these workers chose to do what they do because it was better than the alternatives - and it's far better than what any Western country went through. Far better.

    Capitalism and markets have done far more to improve living standards of people around the world than the totality of not for profits - far more - and is directly responsible for the mass reductions in absolute poverty and improving rates of nutrition. This is the direct result of millions of entrepreneurs like Jobs pursuing profit/needs of customers.



    You have a very narrow view of slave labor...you think if these people COULD find better jobs they would continue to work these jobs?


    I take a very literal definition of slave labor - and I don't dehumanize these workers like you'd like to. It's not surprising considering where you get your information from though.

    Do you think anyone would work their current jobs if they could find better ones?


    Yea...some of us know there is more to life than making somebody else rich at the cost of your own life. Some people do jobs they love even if the pay isn't that great.
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:19 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidI knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.


    Then you should consider reading other sources. Each of these workers isn't forced to work there - to call it slave labor purposely dehumanizes them for your own personal motives. Each of these workers chose to do what they do because it was better than the alternatives - and it's far better than what any Western country went through. Far better.

    Capitalism and markets have done far more to improve living standards of people around the world than the totality of not for profits - far more - and is directly responsible for the mass reductions in absolute poverty and improving rates of nutrition. This is the direct result of millions of entrepreneurs like Jobs pursuing profit/needs of customers.



    You have a very narrow view of slave labor...you think if these people COULD find better jobs they would continue to work these jobs?


    I take a very literal definition of slave labor - and I don't dehumanize these workers like you'd like to. It's not surprising considering where you get your information from though.

    Do you think anyone would work their current jobs if they could find better ones?


    Yea...some of us know there is more to life than making somebody else rich at the cost of your own life. Some people do jobs they love even if the pay isn't that great.


    That's only if you define "better" as being one of pay only which these workers don't either. Why do you insist on dehumanizing them?
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:23 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidI knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.


    Then you should consider reading other sources. Each of these workers isn't forced to work there - to call it slave labor purposely dehumanizes them for your own personal motives. Each of these workers chose to do what they do because it was better than the alternatives - and it's far better than what any Western country went through. Far better.

    Capitalism and markets have done far more to improve living standards of people around the world than the totality of not for profits - far more - and is directly responsible for the mass reductions in absolute poverty and improving rates of nutrition. This is the direct result of millions of entrepreneurs like Jobs pursuing profit/needs of customers.



    You have a very narrow view of slave labor...you think if these people COULD find better jobs they would continue to work these jobs?


    I take a very literal definition of slave labor - and I don't dehumanize these workers like you'd like to. It's not surprising considering where you get your information from though.

    Do you think anyone would work their current jobs if they could find better ones?


    Yea...some of us know there is more to life than making somebody else rich at the cost of your own life. Some people do jobs they love even if the pay isn't that great.


    That's only if you define "better" as being one of pay only which these workers don't either. Why do you insist on dehumanizing them?


    Dehumanizing them is writing off their deaths as a "cost of business"
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:25 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidI knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.


    Then you should consider reading other sources. Each of these workers isn't forced to work there - to call it slave labor purposely dehumanizes them for your own personal motives. Each of these workers chose to do what they do because it was better than the alternatives - and it's far better than what any Western country went through. Far better.

    Capitalism and markets have done far more to improve living standards of people around the world than the totality of not for profits - far more - and is directly responsible for the mass reductions in absolute poverty and improving rates of nutrition. This is the direct result of millions of entrepreneurs like Jobs pursuing profit/needs of customers.



    You have a very narrow view of slave labor...you think if these people COULD find better jobs they would continue to work these jobs?


    I take a very literal definition of slave labor - and I don't dehumanize these workers like you'd like to. It's not surprising considering where you get your information from though.

    Do you think anyone would work their current jobs if they could find better ones?


    Yea...some of us know there is more to life than making somebody else rich at the cost of your own life. Some people do jobs they love even if the pay isn't that great.


    That's only if you define "better" as being one of pay only which these workers don't either. Why do you insist on dehumanizing them?


    Dehumanizing them is writing off their deaths as a "cost of business"


    I haven't done that - but you have dismissed their life choices aiming to do better for themselves and their families as being slave labor. Again - why do you insist on dehumanizing these workers? Is it because they choose to work?
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:28 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidI knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.


    Then you should consider reading other sources. Each of these workers isn't forced to work there - to call it slave labor purposely dehumanizes them for your own personal motives. Each of these workers chose to do what they do because it was better than the alternatives - and it's far better than what any Western country went through. Far better.

    Capitalism and markets have done far more to improve living standards of people around the world than the totality of not for profits - far more - and is directly responsible for the mass reductions in absolute poverty and improving rates of nutrition. This is the direct result of millions of entrepreneurs like Jobs pursuing profit/needs of customers.



    You have a very narrow view of slave labor...you think if these people COULD find better jobs they would continue to work these jobs?


    I take a very literal definition of slave labor - and I don't dehumanize these workers like you'd like to. It's not surprising considering where you get your information from though.

    Do you think anyone would work their current jobs if they could find better ones?


    Yea...some of us know there is more to life than making somebody else rich at the cost of your own life. Some people do jobs they love even if the pay isn't that great.


    That's only if you define "better" as being one of pay only which these workers don't either. Why do you insist on dehumanizing them?


    riddler - you're the one dehumanizing them by suggesting an agency on their part that doesn't exist. Under a quasi-totalitarian state that controls the number of children one can have, and the government actually controls the businesses, the idea that there is a free labor market is absurd. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:30 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    _freestyle saidI knew this would happen. People jumping to conclusions, I mean.

    I never said that socialism is the right model. I have no idea what is.

    And of course Chinese workers should have employment... but not the type of slave labour I've read about that Apple provides. Nobody wants that.


    Then you should consider reading other sources. Each of these workers isn't forced to work there - to call it slave labor purposely dehumanizes them for your own personal motives. Each of these workers chose to do what they do because it was better than the alternatives - and it's far better than what any Western country went through. Far better.

    Capitalism and markets have done far more to improve living standards of people around the world than the totality of not for profits - far more - and is directly responsible for the mass reductions in absolute poverty and improving rates of nutrition. This is the direct result of millions of entrepreneurs like Jobs pursuing profit/needs of customers.



    You have a very narrow view of slave labor...you think if these people COULD find better jobs they would continue to work these jobs?


    I take a very literal definition of slave labor - and I don't dehumanize these workers like you'd like to. It's not surprising considering where you get your information from though.

    Do you think anyone would work their current jobs if they could find better ones?


    Yea...some of us know there is more to life than making somebody else rich at the cost of your own life. Some people do jobs they love even if the pay isn't that great.


    That's only if you define "better" as being one of pay only which these workers don't either. Why do you insist on dehumanizing them?


    riddler - you're the one dehumanizing them by suggesting an agency on their part that doesn't exist. Under a quasi-totalitarian state that controls the number of children one can have, and the government actually controls the businesses, the idea that there is a free labor market is absurd. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Except they do - have you been to China in the last 5-10 years? The Chinese government does not however control Foxconn.
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:41 PM GMT
    riddler78 said

    Except they do - have you been to China in the last 5-10 years? The Chinese government does not however control Foxconn.


    I don't have to go to China because there are these things called books and newspapers that you can read and it tells you what's happening in other parts of the world. The fact that you bemoan the government intervention in the American economy on the one hand but argue that China has a free labor market on the other hand, is the height of intellectual dishonesty.
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    Oct 16, 2011 3:46 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said

    Except they do - have you been to China in the last 5-10 years? The Chinese government does not however control Foxconn.


    I don't have to go to China because there are these things called books and newspapers that you can read and it tells you what's happening in other parts of the world. The fact that you bemoan the government intervention in the American economy on the one hand but argue that China has a free labor market on the other hand, is the height of intellectual dishonesty.


    Lol - thanks for setting the precedent - "I don't have to go to China because there are these things called books and newspapers that you can read and it tells you what's happening in other parts of the world"

    The problem is that whatever it is you're reading isn't giving you a complete picture of the labor markets on the ground. Not that I'm surprised. The Chinese labor market is largely free. I haven't said it's perfect because it's not - but the height of intellectual consistency is to argue against interventions in either - particularly given the rapid improvements for the Chinese laborforce after governments cut control.

    But let's be honest here - this is just a middling attempt on your part to deflect your obvious ignorance of the issues.
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    Oct 16, 2011 4:00 PM GMT
    Nobody CHOOSES to work. It's a necessity to survive.
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    Oct 16, 2011 4:03 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said

    Except they do - have you been to China in the last 5-10 years? The Chinese government does not however control Foxconn.


    I don't have to go to China because there are these things called books and newspapers that you can read and it tells you what's happening in other parts of the world. The fact that you bemoan the government intervention in the American economy on the one hand but argue that China has a free labor market on the other hand, is the height of intellectual dishonesty.


    You're wasting your time...riddler, like many contemporary conservatives, will argue a point not because they HAVE a point...but because they merely want to spread their propaganda.

    Y'know...like "Iraq has WMD's," or "the subprime mess was caused not by greedy bankers and investment brokers...but because the Democrats MADE mortgage companies give mortgages to people who couldn't afford them!"