Republicans plan to privatize teaching

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    Oct 22, 2011 5:13 PM GMT
    http://michiganmessenger.com/52187/republicans-plan-to-privatize-teaching

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    Senate Republicans are reportedly preparing legislation that would allow schools to privatize instructional services.

    The Michigan Association of Secondary School Principals reports that Senate Education Committee chair Phil Pavlov (R-St. Clair) is preparing an education reform package that would allow school districts to hire teachers through a private company and avoid expenses associated with union jobs.

    “I look at it as offering options,” Pavlov said. “If there is something out there that can offer school officials the same options at a lower cost, schools need to take a look at that. It needs to part of the conversation on reform.”

    Pavlov said he’s still ironing out the details on the language of a bill, but it is slated to be part of a package that also includes lifting the cap on state university-chartered public academies and creating a mandatory school of choice program for the state.

    The privatization piece would require teachers from a private firm to have all of the same qualifications as current instructors. The difference would be that school districts could take bids for instructional services once an existing contract expires.

    The Michigan Education Association says the planned legislation will allow for-profit businesses to take over the state’s public schools.
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    Oct 22, 2011 5:45 PM GMT
    Four score and seven years ago the republicans brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in financial dominance, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created unequal.

    Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

    But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of corporate freedom -- and that government of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations, shall not perish from the earth.
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    Oct 22, 2011 8:31 PM GMT
    Thanks for moving the topic icon_smile.gif
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    Oct 22, 2011 8:35 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Hypnotico saidThanks for moving the topic icon_smile.gif


    Sure. It's a good topic and worthy of discussion! icon_razz.gif


    You're a mod, @southbeach1500?
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    Oct 22, 2011 8:42 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Hypnotico said
    southbeach1500 said
    Hypnotico saidThanks for moving the topic icon_smile.gif


    Sure. It's a good topic and worthy of discussion! icon_razz.gif


    You're a mod, @southbeach1500?



    Nope. How did you get that impression, as all I did was offer my opinion that this is an excellent topic and worthy of discussion here?


    Oh ok, I was just thanking the @OP for moving the thread since he had posted it under All Things Gay and I told him to move it and then he did and I thanked him and you said sure so I thought you were a mod (and therefore, moved the thread) now I can breathe again icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 22, 2011 8:50 PM GMT
    Hypnotico said
    southbeach1500 said
    Hypnotico said
    southbeach1500 said
    Hypnotico saidThanks for moving the topic icon_smile.gif


    Sure. It's a good topic and worthy of discussion! icon_razz.gif


    You're a mod, @southbeach1500?



    Nope. How did you get that impression, as all I did was offer my opinion that this is an excellent topic and worthy of discussion here?


    Oh ok, I was just thanking the @OP for moving the thread since he had posted it under All Things Gay and I told him to move it and then he did and I thanked him and you said sure so I thought you were a mod (and therefore, moved the thread) now I can breathe again icon_wink.gif
    If he was a 'mod', this would be called RealGOP.
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Oct 22, 2011 10:18 PM GMT
    So, it's hard enough to keep teachers as it is, but we are now honestly thinking about ways to pay them less? Let's be honest...some of them do suck and aren't worth the pay they do get, but there are really great ones out there and we are trying to find ways to lower their salaries?

    This is another reality of where the GOP and conservatives see that "cuts" can be made. Education isn't as important as making sure tax cuts for our "job creators" stay.
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    Oct 22, 2011 10:22 PM GMT
    We can add this to the Repub's wishlist of stuff they'd like to privatize - AGAINST THE WISHES OF "WE THE PEOPLE".

    Stuff like: Social Security and Medicare.

    We need to be sure to get our asses to the polls next year to prevent the Repubs from implementing their pro-corporate & anti-middle-class agenda.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 22, 2011 10:28 PM GMT
    RickRick91 saidWe can add this to the Repub's wishlist of stuff they'd like to privatize - AGAINST THE WISHES OF "WE THE PEOPLE".

    Stuff like: Social Security and Medicare.

    We need to be sure to get our asses to the polls next year to prevent the Repubs from implementing their pro-corporate & anti-middle-class agenda.

    +1

    If we can even get to the polls. Since Republicans are doing everything they can to bar those they think are not friendly to them from voting. Not since the days of the segregationist South, blocking Blacks from voting, has the US seen anything like the organized Republican effort to block voters they think may be Democrats.

    Better be prepared to bring your voting card, your driver's license, your birth certificate, and God knows what else to the voting booth. Republicans are trying to prevent you from voting.
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    Oct 22, 2011 10:45 PM GMT
    Yeah, this doesn't sound good. There are quite a few unscrupulous principals that would use this to their advantage to get rid of teachers that they personally do not like.

    Plus, I can see these private companies finding ways to quickly get their teachers "certified" over two weekends or two all-day seminars.

    I keep going back to it not just being shitty teachers. Why pass these bills instead of really talking about the elephant in the room: parental involvement? Parents being involved in their children's education makes a world of difference.
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    Oct 22, 2011 10:54 PM GMT
    The Republicans have merely identified another area to mine for profit to the 1%.
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    Oct 22, 2011 11:33 PM GMT
    if This comes about it will end up with the same results as privatizing prisons, a few corps will get rich overseeing private sceems. Then when there becomes a need for revising policies, laws and systems that these private sceems profit from these new corps will have the money to lobby and stop improvements.

    In the last couple weeks for instance, Senator Webb of Virginia had introduced legislation to bring about reforms in the US Prison system and a few senators from states like Arizona that have a lot of private prisons blocked the reforms because reforms would reduce the numbers of prisoners, for example for petty Marijuana charges. This is what we get for privatizing, a system where profits become the only primary goal.

    Discussing this now before privatizing teachers take place, it is hard to predict just how profiteering would raise its ugly head of negative affects, but you can count on it, It will happen.

    What needs to happen is the US Government put more priority on education for everyone rather than the current almost fanatic support for the Military Complex that keeps us in war.

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    Oct 22, 2011 11:44 PM GMT
    ^ Yep. That is what would happen. Hell, the current education system is being run by the testing companies. How long before these private companies would be bought by the testing companies? Take a look at this:

    When Congress increased this year's budget for the Department of Education by $11 billion, it set aside $400 million to help states develop and administer the tests that the No Child Left Behind Act mandated for children in grades 3 through 8. Among the likely benefactors of the extra funds were the four companies that dominate the testing market -- three test publishers and one scoring firm.

    Those four companies are Harcourt Educational Measurement, CTB McGraw-Hill, Riverside Publishing (a Houghton Mifflin company), and NCS Pearson. According to an October 2001 report in the industry newsletter Educational Marketer, Harcourt, CTB McGraw-Hill, and Riverside Publishing write 96 percent of the exams administered at the state level. NCS Pearson, meanwhile, is the leading scorer of standardized tests.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/schools/testing/companies.html
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Oct 23, 2011 1:03 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    nanidesukedo saidSo, it's hard enough to keep teachers as it is, but we are now honestly thinking about ways to pay them less?


    With the abysmal performance of the USA education system, especially compared with other "first world" countries, it's high time to scrap the NEA and union controlled cesspool that is what sucks up most of the "education" dollars spent in this country.


    Our performance, frankly, is not due (in the most part) to the teachers...it's due to the fact that we don't go year round like most of the world. If we wish to be competitive, kids and parents are gonna have to suck it up and have year round school.
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    Oct 23, 2011 1:15 AM GMT
    Upper_Cdn saidThe Republicans have merely identified another area to mine for profit to the 1%.
    +1
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    Oct 23, 2011 1:16 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    southbeach1500 said
    nanidesukedo saidSo, it's hard enough to keep teachers as it is, but we are now honestly thinking about ways to pay them less?


    With the abysmal performance of the USA education system, especially compared with other "first world" countries, it's high time to scrap the NEA and union controlled cesspool that is what sucks up most of the "education" dollars spent in this country.


    Our performance, frankly, is not due (in the most part) to the teachers...it's due to the fact that we don't go year round like most of the world. If we wish to be competitive, kids and parents are gonna have to suck it up and have year round school.


    Not gonna happen. Every year, Six Flags over Georgia and other parks complain because school starts too early and they lose their teenage workers. Businesses depend on this cheap labor. So unless you want to outsource/keep those jobs, we have to give the companies what they want.
  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Oct 23, 2011 1:20 AM GMT
    We as a country will first have to give respect to education (i.e.,to wanting and getting an education) - instead of putting down the "elitists" and "educated" as the enemy as is increasingly the norm (at least as reported widely)..

    Watered down curricula, insisting on college educations and degrees for everyone to get a job (and where are those jobs right now anyway?) when not everyone should nor has to go to college really -- and no support from so many in our population, and the lack of parental involvement in the education system and process -- and also governmental (local and federal) defunding schools in the meantime at the behest of "fiscal conservatives" - and finding a way to motivate kids to actually want to learn and progress.....those are huge obstacles to improving the USA's education results, and compared to other countries' ratings,
  • dancedancekj

    Posts: 1761

    Oct 23, 2011 1:46 AM GMT
    When you have people arguing whether evolution is actually a proven theory, and that creationism should be an "option" taught in schools, that vaccines cause autism, that organic food is in any way better for you nutritionally speaking, that you have national politicans running that don't know the basics about American history, that people cannot even understand the basic chemistry, biology, and physiology of their own day to day existence, this is a sign that our whole attitude towards education is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

    1) Get religion out of politics. All candidates who state religious beliefs that directly contradict science, history, and truth need to GTFO, and we as the American people cannot tolerate it.

    2) Get religion out of public schools. No argument over creationism - go to Sunday school for that.

    3) Get rid of the people who aren't teachers, but are in the education system. Mainly the administrators who take up the bulk of the money and are not needed as much as they think they are. Return it to the teachers for use in the classroom.

    4) Parents should, whenever possible, do the bulk of educating their children. Buy less shit so you can spend more time with your kids. Work one less day a week, teaching them and going on field trips instead of buying them a PS3. Learn with your kids, whether taking a dance class together, exploring the great outdoors, researching topics on Wikipedia and discussing them, letting them experiment with financial management and investment, or even just talking about current events. If your kids see you learning, they'll follow suit.

    5) The difference between science and pseudo-science must be learned by everyone, and must not be tolerated. It is more imperative than ever to learn to spot pseudoscience, especially when it comes to nutrition.

    6) We need to invest back into the areas of math and sciences. Liberal arts are awesome and interesting, but science especially needs a bigger boost. We also need to invest into programs for technology innovation and creativity, and a way to ensure product and idea stagnation does not occur (such as with the automobile companies).

    7) Online education, and free basic courses available to anyone who wishes to learn them, should become readily available and accessible. That way, there is no excuse for not knowing basic learning, and we can accelerate education that requires the classroom experience when needed.
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    Oct 23, 2011 1:50 AM GMT
    ^ and that's how the Indians, Chinese, the Koreans, the Singaporeans (?word), and the Japanese have surpassed the US in their high school education.
  • dancedancekj

    Posts: 1761

    Oct 23, 2011 2:39 AM GMT
    Well, they do have their problems with things like bribes to officials and stuff. But the real secret is high expectations Asian father and Tigermom of course.

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    tumblr_lfrfodXjhU1qgrb7go1_r1_500.jpg

    Contrasted with White American Mom icon_razz.gif
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    Oct 23, 2011 5:05 PM GMT
    Education is a profit engine... particularly under the present regime we have where the teachers' unions bloated influence, with publishers and other parties agreeing to do what is most profitable whilst trying to preserve an outward appearance of doing it "because of the children".

    It gets even "worse" with post-secondary education, saddling young workers with house-sized debt, and making entry-level white-collar employment more a matter of grunting out four years of generic courses and (what some may say is the indoctrination by radical left wing academia) some other interesting but useless information.

    Most of it (the college degree treadmill) is arguably unnecessary for the majority of people.

    Privatising education would at the very least take the shady veneer of appearing to be "altruistically" in the interest of the kids.

    Plus it would allow school boards to decrease the tax burden on their constituencies by selecting the most competitive contracts, as well as getting to be more selective in programming the curriculum to address needs locally, instead of a cookie-cutter approach imposed by the state, or by the largely useless US Department of Education.

    And the issue with creationism vs. evolution vs. the Great Green Arkleseizure should be: lay out all the possible creation myths and with a little reasonable guidance .... allow kids to come to their own conclusions.

    I have more to say, but am in transit, will pick up on this later.
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    Oct 23, 2011 5:11 PM GMT
    Republicans have been trying to destroy public education for decades. It is on the forefront of the religious right's agenda. They simply don't like the fact that they can't get thier religion into public schools. They will do everything in their power to make public education fail so parents look for alternatives.

    I have kids. My son has an IQ of 125, yet struggled to get 'c' in elementry school. He got placed on an IEP and wound up spending 25% of every school day in 1 on 1 (or nearly 1 on 1) teaching interactions. He is now in high school and is an A/B student and is even in some honors classes. Speaks English, Spanish and Japanese (goes to school for that on Sat by his choice). Ther is no way he would have made it in a private school or in 'for profit' education. It simply is not profitable to put that kind of money into a single student. Glad I live in a blue state. My heart goes out to the kids and parents in Michigan.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 23, 2011 5:28 PM GMT
    alphatrigger saidEducation is a profit engine... particularly under the present regime we have where the teachers' unions bloated influence, with publishers and other parties agreeing to do what is most profitable whilst trying to preserve an outward appearance of doing it "because of the children".

    It gets even "worse" with post-secondary education, saddling young workers with house-sized debt, and making entry-level white-collar employment more a matter of grunting out four years of generic courses and (what some may say is the indoctrination by radical left wing academia) some other interesting but useless information.

    Most of it (the college degree treadmill) is arguably unnecessary for the majority of people.

    Privatising education would at the very least take the shady veneer of appearing to be "altruistically" in the interest of the kids.

    Plus it would allow school boards to decrease the tax burden on their constituencies by selecting the most competitive contracts, as well as getting to be more selective in programming the curriculum to address needs locally, instead of a cookie-cutter approach imposed by the state, or by the largely useless US Department of Education.

    And the issue with creationism vs. evolution vs. the Great Green Arkleseizure should be: lay out all the possible creation myths and with a little reasonable guidance .... allow kids to come to their own conclusions.

    I have more to say, but am in transit, will pick up on this later.


    No no no, education has been and continues to be under attack by people with less than a decent education. "Real" Americans feel stupid so they feel the need to dumb down the rest of us, they call educated people "elitist" and claim "indoctrination" when in reality higher educated people just tend to have more liberal views (just like people who leave the country more often tend to be much more liberal). Creationism has not business being taught ins school anyway.
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    Oct 23, 2011 5:34 PM GMT
    dancedancekj saidWhen you have people arguing whether evolution is actually a proven theory, and that creationism should be an "option" taught in schools, that vaccines cause autism, that organic food is in any way better for you nutritionally speaking, that you have national politicans running that don't know the basics about American history, that people cannot even understand the basic chemistry, biology, and physiology of their own day to day existence, this is a sign that our whole attitude towards education is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

    1) Get religion out of politics. All candidates who state religious beliefs that directly contradict science, history, and truth need to GTFO, and we as the American people cannot tolerate it.

    2) Get religion out of public schools. No argument over creationism - go to Sunday school for that.

    3) Get rid of the people who aren't teachers, but are in the education system. Mainly the administrators who take up the bulk of the money and are not needed as much as they think they are. Return it to the teachers for use in the classroom.

    4) Parents should, whenever possible, do the bulk of educating their children. Buy less shit so you can spend more time with your kids. Work one less day a week, teaching them and going on field trips instead of buying them a PS3. Learn with your kids, whether taking a dance class together, exploring the great outdoors, researching topics on Wikipedia and discussing them, letting them experiment with financial management and investment, or even just talking about current events. If your kids see you learning, they'll follow suit.

    5) The difference between science and pseudo-science must be learned by everyone, and must not be tolerated. It is more imperative than ever to learn to spot pseudoscience, especially when it comes to nutrition.

    6) We need to invest back into the areas of math and sciences. Liberal arts are awesome and interesting, but science especially needs a bigger boost. We also need to invest into programs for technology innovation and creativity, and a way to ensure product and idea stagnation does not occur (such as with the automobile companies).

    7) Online education, and free basic courses available to anyone who wishes to learn them, should become readily available and accessible. That way, there is no excuse for not knowing basic learning, and we can accelerate education that requires the classroom experience when needed.


    Win

    Can we also cut the useless amount of college courses? I was forced to take so many classes I tested out of >.> ( I can build my own computer I really don't need an "intro to computers" course)

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  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Oct 23, 2011 5:36 PM GMT
    I'm for anything that improves the education and opportunities for all Americans to learn. If getting the government out of it and privatizing education would do this, have at it.