Religious people make me uncomfortable... I'm starting to think I should boycott them?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 12:55 AM GMT
    Seen as they hate on us...

    They decided they could monetize the definition of marriage...

    They decided they have the right to lecture two consenting adults on what they can and can't do in the bedroom or with their bodies....

    Perpetrate this culture that makes vulnerable kids feel ashamed of who they are....

    I was a science major and they have a record of holding back the progression of humanity from condemning Galileo to preventing stem cell research etc

    I suspect a significant subset would actively burn gays at a stake out of xenophobia if it were socially acceptable.

    Then all those Pedo scandals, that was just pure hypocrisy

    I suspect a significant subset that they would actively burn gays at a stake out of zenophobia if it were socially acceptable.

    It's not that I actively dislike them as people or would ever tell that what to I think of their beliefs ... I just want nothing to do with that whole organized religion, no association. If they stopped doing all of those things I'd hold zero resentment icon_rolleyes.gif

    So anyway the point is I just got done watching the CEO of Frontier getting down and dirty with the employees of his airline and all the while praising Jesus, thanking Christ...testifying and something called witnessing and Jesus, Jesus, Jesus...the standard fanatical cult behavior

    http://upupandagay.com/2010/09/20/frontier-airlines-ceo-to-go-undercover/

    and I feel dirty and resentful having given them $$$ and will avoid doing it in future...probably at all costs.

    this is new for me...even when BP spilled all that oil into the gulf of Mexico I couldn't muster much resentment...shit happens, people want cheap oil, we were asking for that to happen, it's as much our fault as it is there's.

    I usually find myself publicly adding my name to these corporate petitions and demonstrations of outrage half heartily and thinking... yeah I'd prefer if they didn't do this...but price/quality/convenience etc will win out as a defining factor above any form of moral standing.

    Now I'm questioning if I should actually pay more attention to this sort of thing?

    What do you guys think?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 12:57 AM GMT
    I boycotted religion long ago.
    I don't hang out with anyone who regularly attends any church.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 1:10 AM GMT
    Supporting people who hate you is self-degradation.

    I find if you degrade yourself in one area, it spills over to other areas. A while back, I had a client who was a devout Republican Christian and hated gays and had contempt for minorities. He was paying me money, but I was helping his business for more. Concurrently, I found myself making stupid business decisions in others areas. Then among other self destructive incidents, I injured myself. It was like my subconscious and the universe learned that I accepted degradation, so it sent more bad vibes my way. So I dropped the client, and I eventually got my MOJO back.

    My self-esteem is hard earned, and anybody who would disapprove of me, should never see a minute of my attention or a nickel of my money. In the long run, I will pay too high a price.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 1:16 AM GMT
    All of my closest friends are very faithful, very religious people who practice their faith on a regular basis. Several of them are Catholic and several are Mormon. They study their faith, the learn its history in context, and they lives their lives as examples of what Christians and Jews are supposed to be. They all know about me, and all of them are very supportive. I babysit their children, attend mass or services with them, and cant imagine my life without them. In fact, everybody I've met from their churches and circle of friends are the same way.

    I couldnt imagine boycotting people like that. True, faithful people. I'd politely recommend against using such a broad stroke against religious people, when we insist they do not use such a broad stroke in their approach to gay men.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 1:17 AM GMT
    It's unfortunate, Drew, that many people who call themselves Christians are not practicing Christianity. If I am doing the right thing -- helping and supporting others, not judging or hurting my fellow citizens, then I can sleep at night, look myself in the mirror, and know that life is good. You are right, I would not pay any attention to those who are trying to make themselves look good by demeaning and belittling others.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 1:20 AM GMT
    No religion, is wonderful. Convert. icon_cool.gif

    havetouched.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 1:50 AM GMT
    grovetown1 saidAll of my closest friends are very faithful, very religious people who practice their faith on a regular basis. Several of them are Catholic and several are Mormon. They study their faith, the learn its history in context, and they lives their lives as examples of what Christians and Jews are supposed to be. They all know about me, and all of them are very supportive. I babysit their children, attend mass or services with them, and cant imagine my life without them. In fact, everybody I've met from their churches and circle of friends are the same way.

    I couldnt imagine boycotting people like that. True, faithful people. I'd politely recommend against using such a broad stroke against religious people, when we insist they do not use such a broad stroke in their approach to gay men.


    I'm confused? Georgia voted by a 3 to 1 margin to ban same-sex marriage and even civil unions. The people most likely to support these bans are church attendees. Its a statistical impossibility to know several Catholics, Mormon, Christians, etc...and all of them are gay friendly, when 80-90% voted against civil unions.

    There must be more to your story. Do you know them through a local PFLAG group, and they are part of a religious subgroup? Or you go to Seminary, where 90% of people are gay anyway...lol.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 1:55 AM GMT
    I DO BOYCOTT anyone who uses their religious value system to attack me....

    .....ONLY based on how I pursue my own freedom and happiness and LOVE.


    However I know many religious folk who do not use their religion to hurt anyone.

    They follow a religious path because IT'S THE BEST WAY THEY CAN IMAGINE to live a good and beautiful life.

    My grandmother was one of those beautiful souls who worshiped GOD and never spent a moment condemning anyone. I'm convinced she didn't even allow herself to think of condemning any SIN.

    For her, 'sin' was simply a sign of suffering and she wanted to give her help.

    She helped mostly by feeding people.......LOTS of hungry people in rural Appalachia during the 1930s to 50s.

    So because I've known absolutely beautiful Christians.....and then Jews and Muslims(Buddhists and Bahai Faith too) , I can't see ever boycotting an entire faith.

    But staying clear of the hateful ones, Oh Hell Yes !
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 2:30 AM GMT
    Religion has no part in my life, but it doesn't bother me that it does in the lives of others. I have quite a few friends of various religious backgrounds who seem happy with their beliefs and don't belittle me for being a non-believer. I feel fortunate that we've never had any problems regarding those matters knowing spiritual beliefs (or lack of them) are personal. I see no reason to dump them just because they believe in something I don't. That's their choice. They don't bother me with that stuff. They are good friends worth keeping.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 5:01 AM GMT
    "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." I've seen friends who are "churched" do a full 180 on their attitudes toward BLGT's, marriage, etc after getting to know me and other same-sexers well. In each case the friendships were worth keeping in spite of initial comments and opinions put forth by them. Change happens the most and lasts the longest when it's done from within. When enough of the "faithful" get off their high horses and step from behind their bully pulpits to walk with those they condemn we'll see a downturn to the hate.

    But I'm not willing to wait out the centuries that will take. icon_rolleyes.gif None of my money will support Frontier Airlines now, not that they serve the East Coast anyway. I already deny dollars to Chick-Fil-A, Target, and Domino's among others.

    The people I refuse to associate with are those of "us" who think they're somehow above "Gay dogma." They not only patronize businesses with homophobic management and practices, they make a point of announcing how they're shooting themselves in the foot in order to be "anti-PC" or whatever.

    Once while I was in college, one of my housemates had an airhead twink date over who happened to be toting a six-pack of Coors Light. When confronted, he whined, "I don't see anything wrong with it." (This was when the company was flagrantly Gay-bashing and a national boycott was going on. They've probably gone overboard in making nice since then.) I replied that there would be no effing Coors allowed in my house, grabbed one of the bottles and threw it out the front door. icon_twisted.gif No longer do I get anywhere near that extreme, but the point remains the same.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 5:15 AM GMT
    Im not sure about giving up religion though.. it seems quite un-human... what I would gladly give up is dogma...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 5:50 AM GMT
    I refuse to drink any Coors product on the general principle that it is warm mule piss.

    As for religious people, yeah... I won't pick fights, but I'm not going out of my way to hang out with them either.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 8:56 AM GMT
    grovetown1 saidAll of my closest friends are very faithful, very religious people who practice their faith on a regular basis. Several of them are Catholic and several are Mormon. They study their faith, the learn its history in context, and they lives their lives as examples of what Christians and Jews are supposed to be. They all know about me, and all of them are very supportive. I babysit their children, attend mass or services with them, and cant imagine my life without them. In fact, everybody I've met from their churches and circle of friends are the same way.

    I couldnt imagine boycotting people like that. True, faithful people. I'd politely recommend against using such a broad stroke against religious people, when we insist they do not use such a broad stroke in their approach to gay men.


    Gotta be the best post of the day!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2011 10:30 AM GMT
    I avoid irrational people who believe in invisible friends, miracles and such insanity.

    Anyone who places ancient mythology over science is not rational.


  • Oct 23, 2011 2:41 PM GMT
    GreenHopper saidIm not sure about giving up religion though.. it seems quite un-human... what I would gladly give up is dogma...


    I think GreenHopper is on to something here. The folks we all have problems with (including those of us who happen to be religious in some way) are the folks who have are signed on to "religion" as opposed to those who are spiritual and have some deep connection and search for divine reality.

    We all long for something more and something beyond.... Some of us conscientiously try to make that part of our lives -- and how we live our lives.

    Fundamentally I think it comes down to learning how to love and be loved -- and realizing that there is an Other - a very benevolent Other - who loves us (ALL of us). Those who are open to a relationship with that Other are the spiritual folks who are very accepting of folks like us. The others aren't interested in a relationship with this Mystery. They are only interested in adhering to a set of rules that they think will give them a safety net for eternity.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Oct 23, 2011 4:13 PM GMT
    There are exceptions. Our church, Trinity Seattle, is Open and Affirming, and we have an annual Matthew Shepard sermon, some gay clergy, several gay people on the vestry, and we feed 3,000+ people per week. 'Nuff said there.

    Religion has and is doing a great deal of bad. But to boycott all religion on that basis is like boycotting all politics because some/many politics are bad.

    Religion can also be a rigorous ethical system that challenges one to do some good, and to do it better.

    Drawing all-or-nothing, black-and-white distinctions is tempting and even satisfying. But it's not how real life works, and it limits you.

  • Cutlass

    Posts: 426

    Jan 03, 2012 5:26 AM GMT
    Some religions have a very bad reputation as to gays, specifically the r.c. church, mormons, and evangelicals/fundamentalists, the three axis of evil as to human and civil rights, justice, fairness and equality. On the other hand, Unitarians, Quakers, and the Metropolitan Community Church have outreached to gay people; and Episcopalians, Presbyterians and a branch of the Lutheran church have ordained gays, indicating their full acceptance.
    Nevertheless, a splinter group of Episcopalians is opposed to women and gay clergy, and so there is talk of a separate Anglican church that would serve their needs. In the meantime, the ever-opportunistic r.c. church and its pope has sent an invitation to Episcopal/Anglican priests opposed to women and gays to become priests in the r.c. church. If married, they would be allowed to stay married; so much for the binding r.c. rule that priests must be celibate. Also benedict has extended an invitation to Episcopalians/Anglicans disaffected by their church for allowing gay and women clergy whereas the r.c. church won't allow it for these groups and parishes to join the r.c. church. This is in keeping with the r.c. church's plans to catholicize the whole world.
    I don't mind people who belong to a church (my siblings do) as long as they don't try to convert me, don't wear their religion on their sleeve, aren't anti-gay, and don't work against gay rights.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2012 6:10 AM GMT
    My family is really religious, for the most part I don't mind being around them.

    I'm not out, so when they mock and belittle gays in their conversations it hurts me, I know they love me, or at least who they think I am, but those are their true feelings on gays, despite not knowing one was among them.

    Even though they would probably never say anything so hurtful to me, family only speak their true feelings when no one is around to get hurt. I think it would kill my Mom and Grandmothers to hear I was gay and I don't want to hurt them, but at the same time I have to live my life for me, and not someone else, that's whats keeping me in the closet.

    In my honest opinion I do believe religion does good, it guides some people with low moral drive on a path to being a good person, allows people without to find worth in their lives, but I think people can be good without it.

    However, I think, the bad in religion outweighs the good. People use it as a tool to justify their hate and aggression, you never see anyone using Harry Potter to advocate the elimination of muggels, but the story are just as fantastical if not more.

    What irks me the most is those religious people who will say, I don't believe in your lifestyle, but god says love all, it's so condescending to think you're too good to care.

    I'd rather be judged then accepted under a false guise to facilitate your delusion of eternal life.

    And to those who are gay openly but say their are religious, and not something like Scientology, but devout Christians and Catholics and such, I don't understand how you could logically support a group of people who claim to believe that our attraction is an abomination. It seems incredibly detrimental to support a tool that is being used to oppress people like you across the world. And even though religious people you know personally may not use religion in that way, turning a blind eye to and supporting a machine that is being use to hurt someone is just as bad and is not helping the cause.

    I'm not saying I couldn't be friends with a religious person, but I could never truly believe they accept me for who I am, because there is a big difference between acceptance and toleration.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2012 7:57 AM GMT
    I am strong enough and self accepting that I don't seek their acceptance, because I am strong enough to accept myself. It's a non issue for me.
  • Trepeat

    Posts: 546

    Jan 03, 2012 8:30 AM GMT
    I don't think there's much to gain from boycotting all religious people. A lot of my closest friends have been religious, some with prejudices, others not. The ones who were prejudiced against gays softened up as they were exposed to more liberal view points that they might not have otherwise have considered. There are definitely religious people out there -even those with prejudices- who need to be treated with compassion and patience. Leading by example is the best way to change hearts.

    That said, there are other assholes out there who should just be removed from the gene pool, lest their hatred infects future generations.

    When I was living in the States, I didn't have a work visa, so I did a lot of landscaping jobs to earn my spending cash. Worked for this one guy, real rich old bastard who paid me well to help him with his giant property. I worked at his place a few times without really getting a chance to know before this one time he spent an afternoon along with me outside. I knew he was Mormon and conservative, but I'd worked for a lot of those types before, never had any real issues. As we were talking though, just casual polite chat, the topic of where he was from came up. I asked him why he'd moved from California to SLC. His response?

    "Too many fags and Mexicans. Damned illegals and faggots ruined the whole damned State."

    Me: icon_neutral.gif

    I still had hours of work left to do with him that day and a bunch work that he still owed me for, so I kept cool and just smiled and nodded. Hours later I got my cheque and left for the day, supposed to keep coming back to keep working for the rest of the week. Got back to my parents' place and said, "I can't work for that evil motherfucker." My dad told me that we all have bosses now and then that we can't stand, but money's money, and I didn't have many good opportunities for work. I stood by what I said, never bothered going back to work for that asswipe.

    So, there definitely are some hateful fucks out there who should be boycotted, but we gotta assume that the majority of em just need to be treated with patience, compassion, and kids' gloves until they eventually wisen up. Be the bigger person, and whatnot.
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Jan 03, 2012 8:38 AM GMT
    MsclDrew saidSeen as they hate on us...

    They decided they could monetize the definition of marriage...

    They decided they have the right to lecture two consenting adults on what they can and can't do in the bedroom or with their bodies....

    Perpetrate this culture that makes vulnerable kids feel ashamed of who they are....

    I was a science major and they have a record of holding back the progression of humanity from condemning Galileo to preventing stem cell research etc

    I suspect a significant subset would actively burn gays at a stake out of xenophobia if it were socially acceptable.

    Then all those Pedo scandals, that was just pure hypocrisy

    I suspect a significant subset that they would actively burn gays at a stake out of zenophobia if it were socially acceptable.

    It's not that I actively dislike them as people or would ever tell that what to I think of their beliefs ... I just want nothing to do with that whole organized religion, no association. If they stopped doing all of those things I'd hold zero resentment icon_rolleyes.gif

    So anyway the point is I just got done watching the CEO of Frontier getting down and dirty with the employees of his airline and all the while praising Jesus, thanking Christ...testifying and something called witnessing and Jesus, Jesus, Jesus...the standard fanatical cult behavior

    http://upupandagay.com/2010/09/20/frontier-airlines-ceo-to-go-undercover/

    and I feel dirty and resentful having given them $$$ and will avoid doing it in future...probably at all costs.

    this is new for me...even when BP spilled all that oil into the gulf of Mexico I couldn't muster much resentment...shit happens, people want cheap oil, we were asking for that to happen, it's as much our fault as it is there's.

    I usually find myself publicly adding my name to these corporate petitions and demonstrations of outrage half heartily and thinking... yeah I'd prefer if they didn't do this...but price/quality/convenience etc will win out as a defining factor above any form of moral standing.

    Now I'm questioning if I should actually pay more attention to this sort of thing?

    What do you guys think?



    I don't think it wise to boycott a group as a whole.icon_idea.gif Many religious groups support thier communities, imporve them, and do so many altruistic deeds you would be amazed. If you are publically gay and go to a Catholic Hospital they will treat you without having insurance in an emergency. Plus you will never have to pay they bill if you are unable. I have witnessed this first hand. I took a co-worker to a Catholic hospital who cut their hand really bad. He had no insurance and he was gay. I took him to a regular hospital nearby and we were turned away. It was the 80's and people were afraid to treat a gay man. We were told they were so busy he would have a really long wait?? His hand was bleeding really bad and ended up needing many internal and external stitches.
    I have friends who are democrats and I love a good debate with them. I do not avoid them all as a group as well. icon_cool.gif

    Drew we live in a free country so do what you feel is right. If you want to see cult behavior go to a Wal~mart convention. I worked for a company years back and we were invited to one. I was waiting for the poisoned grape juice to come out. It was shocking and disturbing. Hearing thousands of poeple doing the "walmart cheer". icon_eek.gif I shopped in a wal~mart once and I have never been back because of thier philosophy and crap "Faded Glory" clothing made in Pakistan. I feel very comfortable boycotting thier stores and I'm happy with my decision!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2012 3:21 PM GMT
    lol, I think they're not very Christ-like in their application of Christianity, are they MsclDrew? icon_wink.gif

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2012 8:27 PM GMT
    MikemikeMike said

    I don't think it wise to boycott a group as a whole.... (deleted the bullshit in between)
    I feel very comfortable boycotting thier stores and I'm happy with my decision!
    THIS crap pisses me off. PURE hypocrisy.
    Sorry.. it was just SO blatant.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2012 6:59 PM GMT
    There are religious people, including Christians, who are fighting for your rights. Please don't paint us all with the same brush.

    We don't have the money or influence that they do. The media thinks our commercials are "too controversial" for TV, but we're here, too.
    This is a group I'm part of. We're up to 45,000 Facebook fans.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2012 7:04 PM GMT
    I can see where the temptation in doing this comes from, and trust me, I have threatened to do the same on many occasions. But....not all religious people hate gays, so to boycott all religious people who be a terrible injustice.