Leaving Behind Sex and Infatuation

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    May 27, 2008 12:33 AM GMT
    I know this post will win me no friends or get me on anybody's hotlist. In fact, I suspect it will drop to the bottom of the third page like a hot potato (or maybe be moved to the Spirituality thread?).

    Anyway, I have given some thought to making a change from my current every-four-months-or-so search for another relatively short-term infatuation and sexual exchange.

    I am especially motivated in this by the idea of loosening the hold that the earth has on me, in the context of levels beyond, or simply different from, reincarnation. Christians, agnostics, and atheists can go back to the other threads now.

    Anyway, the idea came to me yesterday that the reason putting sex and infatuation behind me may speed up my liberation is that, under the influence of sex or infatuation, a "piece" of this reality is excessively overvalued while the rest of reality becomes undervalued.

    I have two cats, and the same principle applies, only it's more relaxed. I definitely value them more than a lot of other things, but I don't turn psychologically red (i.e., mentally shouting "Oh, G*d!") like I do with men in a sexual/"love" context.

    Yes, I really would rather turn into a silver fish that can swim through all the dimensions without getting stuck.

    Any thoughts?

    Charlie
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    May 27, 2008 1:04 AM GMT
    What are you going to do about your hormones?


    I can tell you when I was without testosterone life was so calm and peaceful (not considering the depression). No aggression. No angst. But also no motivation.

    I had no sexual desire or impulse. I didnt miss sex one bit...because I had no sex drive. So it wasnt a problem. Mr Happy did not rule my life; that was nice.
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    May 27, 2008 1:17 AM GMT
    Hmmm unless you have a low sex drive, this could be very difficult. I have gone without sex for months on end (I did not have sex with a guy until I was 25). The only good thing about it was I learned to be myself and not base my sense of self solely on my boyfriend or sexual partner's opinions of me.
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    May 27, 2008 2:39 AM GMT
    Sex isn't everything and if you can live without then that's cool but I wouldn't suggest doing it unless you feel it is something you don't need anymore.

    Having said that it also sounds like you just might not have found someone who stimulates you in a way that can get your gears going without the use of sex. Once you find one of those I think you'll be much better off then just being with those two cats.

    (P.S. I love cats).
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    May 27, 2008 3:38 AM GMT
    CarlosGringo said Anyway, the idea came to me yesterday that the reason putting sex and infatuation behind me may speed up my liberation is that, under the influence of sex or infatuation, a "piece" of this reality is excessively overvalued while the rest of reality becomes undervalued.


    Um, why does it have to be all or nothing? What spiritual path suggests that? The Eastern philosophies that you seem more drawn to don't say anything like that, they repeatedly stress the values of moderation.

    Disappointment can lead to asceticism, but it's a terrible idea, really. Needlessly extreme.
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    May 27, 2008 10:20 AM GMT
    Were eunuchs happy then?

    Again, I question why you guys always have to swing between extremes? When experiencing disappointment in something, it does not necessarily mean that the extreme opposite will yield results. In fact it most likely won't.

    You are repeatedly putting too much weight on one side of the scale or the other and you still expect it to balance?
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    May 27, 2008 10:31 AM GMT
    There is a big difference between Lust and Love...

    Buddhism encourages renouncing sensual pleasures. Sensuous lust is considered one of Buddhism's five hindrances. The Buddha taught that lust is a result of desire, which must be abandoned to reach enlightenment. The Buddha formulated 5 precepts of Right Conduct One of these is: "I undertake to observe the precept to abstain from sexual misconduct." Buddhists interpret this precept in different ways, but most believe that consensual sexual relations between a couple are okay, and that sexual misconduct would include adultery, rape, incest, and other sexual abuse.

    Many Buddhist texts explain these teachings on lust. The "Discourses of the Buddha" states, "The pleasure and joy that arise in dependence on the eye: this is the gratification in the eye. That the eye is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change: this is the danger in the eye. The removal and abandonment of desire and lust from the eye: this is the escape from the eye."

    The Dhammapada teaches, "Those who are infatuated with lust fall back into the stream, as does a spider into the web spun by itself. This too the wise cut off, and wander, with no longing, released from all sorrow (Dhammapada 13)."

    Other Buddhist texts go further, to say that lust is evil. The Itivuttaka states, "Monks, there are these three roots of evil. What three?

    "Lust is a root of evil, hate is a root of evil, delusion is a root of evil. These are the three roots of evil."

    And as Buddhaghosa wrote in the Visuddhimagga, "Of the divine state of love the near enemy is lust, because, like love, it sees good qualities. It is like a foe lurking near a man. Quickly it finds access. Hence love should be well protected from lust."



    I wish you much love in your journey and the strength to refrain from Lust.

    Namaste,
    Den
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    May 27, 2008 8:07 PM GMT
    Thanks, guys, for your feedback.

    I still feel drawn to the idea that lust/sex/infatuation defeats equanimity and a more-or-less even emotional response to the different forms of this reality.

    I'm not advocating repressed or resisted desire.
    A good place to start (I think) is with created desire and seeking opportunities to experience lust/sex/infatuation, as opposed to responding to situations that happen.

    Also, moderation means different things to different people. I'm talking about changing emotional colors at the level of light blue and pink rather than shades of blood red (intense attraction) and ultrablue (intense aversion). Isn't that one interpretation of moderation?

    Also, I'm not advocating this for anyone else.

    Finally, I read something on the 'net to the effect that sexual desire begins with a 'story,' in other words, a mental drama of sorts. I think this is true for me. If that's the case, it isn't a question of hormones, but modifying the story. Another way to express this is that I don't have sex or get infatuated with PEOPLE, it's with paradigms and archetypes, making a person something he isn't.

    Charlie




  • GQjock

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    May 27, 2008 10:34 PM GMT
    I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to pave for yourself in this but if you're trying to untie sex from infatuation and desire is basically fruitless

    allowing desire to become something more than just a mental exercise might sound noble but it takes away everything that is human
    Don't you think it's wonderful to bring your fantasies and you infatuations to light?
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    May 29, 2008 4:09 AM GMT
    What I'm trying to do is reduce both the number of things that I overvalue and undervalue, and the intensity of over- and undervaluation.

    Sexual desire, greed, infatuation, and overwhelming desire are all examples of (for me) excessive over- and undervaluation.

    In other words, moving from

    "I need . . " to "I want . ."
    "I want . . " to "I'd like . ."
    "I'd like . ." to "that's nice"
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    May 29, 2008 4:13 AM GMT
    and "that's nice" is still miles away from "whatever."
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    May 29, 2008 4:17 AM GMT
    Sorry for the repeated messages.

    How about an occasional, episodic rising out of a default whateverism, but never more emotionally committed than "uhm, O.K.," or "uh, no thanks."?
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    May 31, 2008 6:21 PM GMT
    there's a book call "I kiss dating goodbye". it says that dating dramas are very much a facade that clouds judgment of true love and romance. hence the guy who wrote the book decide to do away with dating and all the fakes it comes with.

    although he didn't talk about being aloof or hermetic. He make friends and live life with passion. instead of seeking love, he lets love come to find him.