Qantas grounds ENTIRE fleet effective immediately.

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    Oct 30, 2011 2:24 AM GMT
    Courtesy of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC):
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-29/qantas-locking-out-staff/3608250


    Qantas has grounded its entire fleet and is locking out its staff in response to unions' industrial action.

    The airline is fighting with its pilots, ground staff and engineers over pay, conditions and the outsourcing of jobs overseas.

    In a shock move, Qantas boss Alan Joyce announced today all domestic employees involved with the dispute will be locked out as of 8pm (AEDT) Monday, but the fleet would be grounded immediately.

    Both the international and domestic fleet have been grounded indefinitely.

    Have you been affected by the grounding? Tell ABC News Online

    "We are locking out until the unions withdraw their extreme claim and reach an agreement with us," Mr Joyce said.

    "It's an unbelievable decision, it's a very hard decision ... we have no alternative. This is the fastest way to ensure the airline gets back in the air."

    "They are trashing our strategy and our brand," he said.

    "They are deliberately destabilising the company and there is no end in sight."

    The move comes as a result of a long-running industrial impasse between Qantas and three unions: the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA), the Transport Workers Union (TWU) and the Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA).

    Mr Joyce said if the industrial action continued, Qantas would have no choice but to shut down its business "part by part".

    QantasLink and Jetstar will not be grounded.

    The Qantas dispute is expected to go before the industrial relations commission tonight.


    Government concerned

    The Federal Government was told about Qantas' plan for the first time this afternoon.

    Transport Minister Anthony Albanese has expressed frustration, saying the Government is extremely concerned about the future of Qantas, its workforce, and also the travelling public.

    Mr Albanese says he is disappointed by Qantas' decision "made on a Saturday morning with notice to the Government mid-afternoon, one day after an annual general meeting."

    "I would hope the parties to this dispute act like adults," he told a press conference this afternoon.

    "[The Government] remains of the view, that with a little bit of commonsense and acknowledgment that there is a common interest between management and employees a solution can be found."

    Mr Albanese says the Government played a role in facilitating discussions between Qantas and the employees, but at no stage has there been a request for government intervention.

    He says the Government will be making an application to Fair Work Australia over the dispute.

    They are trashing our strategy and our brand. They are deliberately destabilising the company and there is no end in sight.

    The TWU has slammed Qantas' decision to ground its entire fleet and lockout its staff as "reckless, unwarranted and disgraceful".

    The aircraft engineers union says it is not surprised Qantas would take such extreme action as grounding its fleet and locking out workers.

    "I think this is an extreme measure for the CEO and airline to take given we've cancelled our industrial action for the next three weeks," ALAEA federal secretary Steve Purvinas said.


    Refunds, ticket transfers

    Mr Joyce said he was sorry the course of action had become necessary but the ball was now in the unions' court.

    "They must decide just how badly they want to hurt Qantas, their members ... and the travelling public," he said.

    The airline said at 5pm (AEDT) on Saturday there were 64 aircraft in the air, 36 domestic and 28 international carrying more than 7,000 passengers.

    In total 108 aircraft will be grounded in 22 airports around the world.

    The airline will offer hotel accommodation and alternative flights to those who are mid-journey and cannot get home when the grounding takes effect.

    And there will be refunds and ticket transfers available to passengers whose flights are cancelled.

    Qantas will keep passengers updated on the situation via its website, Facebook page and Twitter.

    The airline says 13,305 passengers are booked to travel on Qantas planes from overseas ports to Australia in the next 24 hours.

    About 1,310 international passengers may be at international airports now waiting for their flight to depart.


    Passengers stranded

    Qantas passengers at airports around the world are scrambling to find accommodation or flights with other airlines.

    "I just can't believe that they're doing it to be honest. I'm at a loss," one traveller said.

    I just can't believe that they're doing it to be honest. I'm at a loss.

    Stranded Qantas passenger
    "I'm a bit annoyed, especially when Mr Alan Joyce got his big pay rise yesterday," another passenger said.

    International leaders and delegates in Perth for the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) are among those whose travel plans have been thrown into disarray by the Qantas grounding.

    A Greens staff member, Tim Hollo, was on board a Qantas aircraft when the grounding happened.

    He says the captain told passengers he did not know what was happening.

    "Eventually he said 'still don't know what's happening but you can turn your mobile phones on while we wait'," he said.

    "A few of us on the plane switched on Twitter and found out that Mr Joyce had grounded the entire fleet, shortly afterwards the captain told us to get off and wait.

    "And about 20 minutes after that they told us all to leave the airport because there weren't going to be any flights."

    Qantas is urging passengers affected by the grounding of its flights over the next 24 hours to call 13 13 13 for assistance.

    Qantas grounding at a glance
    -All domestic and international flights grounded
    -Lockout of staff will commence Monday 8.00pm
    -At least 80,000 passengers affected worldwide
    -108 aircraft grounded in 22 airports around the globe
    -Qantas is organising alternative flights and accommodation for stranded passengers, and refunds for people yet to travel.
    -The Federal Government was only informed of Qantas' plan hours before it was announced.
    -Fair Work Australia adjourns hearing into dispute until 2pm Sunday
    -Business, tourism sectors fear major impact
    -Hotline for affected Qantas passengers: 13 13 13
    -Qantas updating passengers via its website, Facebook and Twitter
    -QantasLink and Jetstar will continue to operate flights
    -Mr Joyce said his hand had been tipped by the impossible demands of three unions.

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    Oct 30, 2011 10:54 PM GMT
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-31/qantas-action-terminated-fair-work-rules/3609158

    Qantas to fly again after Fair Work terminates dispute

    Qantas management has been told to get its aircraft back in the sky and drop its plans to lock out its workforce tonight.

    Early this morning the workplace umpire put a stop to all industrial action by the airline and unions, saying it was acting to prevent significant damage to the tourism and airline industries.

    The decision by the full bench of Fair Work Australia (FWA) was handed down just after 2:00am AEDT after a marathon 15-hour hearing in Melbourne.

    The airline says it should have its planes back in the sky by this afternoon if it gets the go-ahead from the safety regulator.

    "The likelihood is we'll have our first positioning flight at 12:25pm today and our first commercial flights by 2:00pm this afternoon," Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said this morning.

    "The schedule will ramp up and hopefully we'll be back to a full schedule tomorrow."

    All Qantas planes were grounded on Saturday, leaving nearly 70,000 passengers stranded in 22 countries, and the airline had been threatening to lock out all employees from tonight.

    The ruling means all parties have 21 days to negotiate a settlement to the dispute.

    Read more about what caused the Qantas dispute.

    While Qantas can no longer lock out its workers, the unions have been restricted in what they can do.

    They wanted only a temporary suspension of industrial action, but that was rejected by Fair Work Australia.

    In handing down the decision after two hours of deliberation, the tribunal said the temporary suspension sought by the three unions would not have provided enough certainty for the industry.

    Qantas had argued against a suspension, saying that it would not guarantee the airline would run again as long as industrial bargaining continued. ....
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    Oct 31, 2011 2:04 AM GMT
    In spite of worldwide economic woes, Qantas has been doing well enough to give the CEO a 71% raise. The rest of the employees, speaking through their labor unions, feel that they contributed to the increased productivity and should also get raises. Isn't that absurd?
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    Oct 31, 2011 3:39 AM GMT
    "Qantas to resume flights after government intervenes in dispute"
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/31/us-qantas-grounding-idUSTRE79S0RU20111031
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    Oct 31, 2011 3:59 AM GMT
    Having a number of friends who work for Qantas, with all their perks and stuff, they get it really good. Their unions just want to justify their exorbitant union fees, and rap and bastardise Qantas. The CEO did the right thing to ground all flights. Yes poor passengers, but the unions had no trouble screwing them over just to justify their existence. yes I will fly with Qantas agin, but not sure I will forgive their ratbag union for some time.
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    Oct 31, 2011 4:08 AM GMT
    pattison saidHaving a number of friends who work for Qantas, with all their perks and stuff, they get it really good. Their unions just want to justify their exorbitant union fees, and rap and bastardise Qantas. The CEO did the right thing to ground all flights. Yes poor passengers, but the unions had no trouble screwing them over just to justify their existence. yes I will fly with Qantas agin, but not sure I will forgive their ratbag union for some time.


    I hope next time you fly Qantas they ship you to the Arctic while sending your bags to Antarctica
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    Oct 31, 2011 4:22 AM GMT
    pattison saidHaving a number of friends who work for Qantas, with all their perks and stuff, they get it really good. Their unions just want to justify their exorbitant union fees, and rap and bastardise Qantas. The CEO did the right thing to ground all flights. Yes poor passengers, but the unions had no trouble screwing them over just to justify their existence. yes I will fly with Qantas agin, but not sure I will forgive their ratbag union for some time.


    I agree with the unions demands being unjustified and excessive. Yet Alan Joyce isn't the best person to lead QANTAS, or any other organisation in my opinon and it was a very poor decision to ground the entire fleet.

    This article gives some background on the situation and the Alan Joyce's performance as CEO.

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/spirit-of-australia-is-faltering-20111030-1mqgv.html#ixzz1cKK3tmi5
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    Oct 31, 2011 5:22 AM GMT
    MadeNUSA said
    pattison saidHaving a number of friends who work for Qantas, with all their perks and stuff, they get it really good. Their unions just want to justify their exorbitant union fees, and rap and bastardise Qantas. The CEO did the right thing to ground all flights. Yes poor passengers, but the unions had no trouble screwing them over just to justify their existence. yes I will fly with Qantas agin, but not sure I will forgive their ratbag union for some time.


    I hope next time you fly Qantas they ship you to the Arctic while sending your bags to Antarctica

    So what's the basis for your little snide remark? Do you have any evidence that his remarks were incorrect and that the union was not greedy?
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    Oct 31, 2011 8:39 AM GMT
    Jesus! I know of better ways to spend £13m a day!
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    Oct 31, 2011 4:25 PM GMT
    I worked for Air-France between 1978 to 1980 then for Quantas from 1980 to 1990 , Both Airlines had strikes these last few days ......
    Air -France ran by the governments at the time i was with them , was so desorganised ....and are quite still are ( still in contact with some of the people i had worked with )
    Quantas Airlines was and are still very good to their employees , Alan Joyce got a 71% raise , employees weren't very enthousiastic about it considering their own raise , but the Unions pushed it too far , and i agree it was time for Quantas to act this way .
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    Oct 31, 2011 4:36 PM GMT
    It's nice to hear insight behind this whole mess. I didn't want to make a rash judgment about the unions being too demanding OR the higher-ups being too greedy. Thanks for the insight all.
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    Oct 31, 2011 5:16 PM GMT
    I'm going to be on 4 international flights over the next 2 weeks and neither on these 2 airlines!

    It's a good time to travel!
  • gbc59

    Posts: 90

    Nov 01, 2011 9:02 AM GMT
    The greed of unions. see the long list of demands that the 3 unions are demanding, a long haul pilot earns up to $500k a year, they now want their families to able to use business lounges at no charge plus more business class (free for family members) just one example see the unions web sites for their claims , the TWU want part of the $500 million profit, do unions realise that a airbus 380 costs nearly $400million and that buying small a32o,s are $80 million, taht shareholders have not had a divendend for several years. the unions will kill qantas eventually as even the Singaporean prime minister quoted qantas has a operating figure of more than 20 % than any other airline ( straitstimes ) i say good on ya Alan fight the unions for once.
  • cbrett

    Posts: 609

    Nov 01, 2011 9:33 AM GMT
    the last 3 days have been fun
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    Nov 01, 2011 9:54 AM GMT
    intentsman saidIn spite of worldwide economic woes, Qantas has been doing well enough to give the CEO a 71% raise. The rest of the employees, speaking through their labor unions, feel that they contributed to the increased productivity and should also get raises. Isn't that absurd?


    It's actually not a pay rise if you compare it to his salary 3 years ago... he's taken pay cuts 2 years running... and when you analyse the contents of this payrise, it's performance based... and the payrise was supported by almost 100% of shareholders. His pay (even with the payrise to $5M) is dismal when compared to CEO's of major companies around the world. He runs a company worth $16.2B in turnover a year, $500M profit and has 33,000 employees.

    As for the union demands - labour costs for airlines are huge. Qantas employees have better working conditions than Virgin - the other major provider. The same unions protect both companies workers so they have unfairly targeted Qantas. If Qantas was to give in, Virgin would have an even greater market advantage. Virgin has already been extremely successful in grabbing market share from Qantas.

    And that's just domestically. Forget the advantage that overseas airlines have who are based in Asia, paying dramatically cheaper Asian wages. Qantas wants to set up a new (and separate, just like it's domestic subsidiary Jetstar) low cost international airline based in Asia. One of the issues that the unions are arguing for is equal pay conditions for Asian workers to be employed in Asia.

    And above all that - the dispute is about more than pay. The unions are demanding job security. Who in the world actually has job security these days? And in all seriousness, what other industry grants it's workers 95% discounts on it's products. A pretty damn good perk when you're being paid $500K a year as a pilot!

    Qantas is doing reasonably well because the Australia economy is doing so well. Productivity at the company is actually declining - so by your logic, shouldn't the workers actually be taking a pay cut?

    It's international business is significantly loss-making. The domestic travel sector is propping it up so the international arm would be the first part of the company to be wound down should things go pear shaped. And a $5M deficit a week for industrial action that has lasted 15 months is no way to keep the business alive. $20M a day for 3 days is cheap - the decision was pretty easy all said and done to shut it down.

    Don't get me wrong, I actually support the role of unions, just not when they make ambit claims, won't negotiate in good faith,and threaten a national icon.
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    Nov 01, 2011 10:49 AM GMT
    Hopefully I don't sound horrible but I really loved when Jetstar removed all excess baggage fees. BEST ever.
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    Nov 01, 2011 3:50 PM GMT
    76coopers said
    intentsman saidIn spite of worldwide economic woes, Qantas has been doing well enough to give the CEO a 71% raise. The rest of the employees, speaking through their labor unions, feel that they contributed to the increased productivity and should also get raises. Isn't that absurd?


    It's actually not a pay rise if you compare it to his salary 3 years ago... he's taken pay cuts 2 years running... and when you analyse the contents of this payrise, it's performance based... and the payrise was supported by almost 100% of shareholders. His pay (even with the payrise to $5M) is dismal when compared to CEO's of major companies around the world. He runs a company worth $16.2B in turnover a year, $500M profit and has 33,000 employees.

    As for the union demands - labour costs for airlines are huge. Qantas employees have better working conditions than Virgin - the other major provider. The same unions protect both companies workers so they have unfairly targeted Qantas. If Qantas was to give in, Virgin would have an even greater market advantage. Virgin has already been extremely successful in grabbing market share from Qantas.

    And that's just domestically. Forget the advantage that overseas airlines have who are based in Asia, paying dramatically cheaper Asian wages. Qantas wants to set up a new (and separate, just like it's domestic subsidiary Jetstar) low cost international airline based in Asia. One of the issues that the unions are arguing for is equal pay conditions for Asian workers to be employed in Asia.

    And above all that - the dispute is about more than pay. The unions are demanding job security. Who in the world actually has job security these days? And in all seriousness, what other industry grants it's workers 95% discounts on it's products. A pretty damn good perk when you're being paid $500K a year as a pilot!

    Qantas is doing reasonably well because the Australia economy is doing so well. Productivity at the company is actually declining - so by your logic, shouldn't the workers actually be taking a pay cut?

    It's international business is significantly loss-making. The domestic travel sector is propping it up so the international arm would be the first part of the company to be wound down should things go pear shaped. And a $5M deficit a week for industrial action that has lasted 15 months is no way to keep the business alive. $20M a day for 3 days is cheap - the decision was pretty easy all said and done to shut it down.

    Don't get me wrong, I actually support the role of unions, just not when they make ambit claims, won't negotiate in good faith,and threaten a national icon.


    How do both bolded phrases describe the same company at the same moment?
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    Nov 01, 2011 5:04 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    intentsman saidIn spite of worldwide economic woes, Qantas has been doing well enough to give the CEO a 71% raise. The rest of the employees, speaking through their labor unions, feel that they contributed to the increased productivity and should also get raises. Isn't that absurd?



    Really? It was "just decided" that the CEO would get a 71% raise? Or was that raise tied to some kind of performance metrics? Did the labor unions have an existing contract that stipulated their pay levels?

    Perhaps Qantas should be nationalized - that way the government could make sure things are "fair" and "equitable."



    it was either "decided" that all off the company's gains are due to only one employee, or unicorns did it. I'm going with decided. You go with unicorns.
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    Nov 02, 2011 12:19 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    intentsman said
    southbeach1500 said
    intentsman saidIn spite of worldwide economic woes, Qantas has been doing well enough to give the CEO a 71% raise. The rest of the employees, speaking through their labor unions, feel that they contributed to the increased productivity and should also get raises. Isn't that absurd?



    Really? It was "just decided" that the CEO would get a 71% raise? Or was that raise tied to some kind of performance metrics? Did the labor unions have an existing contract that stipulated their pay levels?

    Perhaps Qantas should be nationalized - that way the government could make sure things are "fair" and "equitable."



    it was either "decided" that all off the company's gains are due to only one employee, or unicorns did it. I'm going with decided. You go with unicorns.


    Clearly you know nothing about how compensation is structured in the airline industry.



    Tell us, o Wise One:
    How is compensation in the airline industry structured if not by being decided as a decision by one or more deciders?
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    Nov 03, 2011 10:43 AM GMT
    76coopers said
    intentsman said

    Don't get me wrong, I actually support the role of unions, just not when they make ambit claims, won't negotiate in good faith,and threaten a national icon.


    Don't get me wrong, I actually support the role of management, just not when they make rash decisions, don't inform the government until 3 hours prior to grounding the fleet, won't negotiate in good faith,and threaten a national icon.
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    Jan 09, 2012 8:09 AM GMT
    intentsman said
    76coopers said
    intentsman saidIn spite of worldwide economic woes, Qantas has been doing well enough to give the CEO a 71% raise. The rest of the employees, speaking through their labor unions, feel that they contributed to the increased productivity and should also get raises. Isn't that absurd?


    It's actually not a pay rise if you compare it to his salary 3 years ago... he's taken pay cuts 2 years running... and when you analyse the contents of this payrise, it's performance based... and the payrise was supported by almost 100% of shareholders. His pay (even with the payrise to $5M) is dismal when compared to CEO's of major companies around the world. He runs a company worth $16.2B in turnover a year, $500M profit and has 33,000 employees.

    As for the union demands - labour costs for airlines are huge. Qantas employees have better working conditions than Virgin - the other major provider. The same unions protect both companies workers so they have unfairly targeted Qantas. If Qantas was to give in, Virgin would have an even greater market advantage. Virgin has already been extremely successful in grabbing market share from Qantas.

    And that's just domestically. Forget the advantage that overseas airlines have who are based in Asia, paying dramatically cheaper Asian wages. Qantas wants to set up a new (and separate, just like it's domestic subsidiary Jetstar) low cost international airline based in Asia. One of the issues that the unions are arguing for is equal pay conditions for Asian workers to be employed in Asia.

    And above all that - the dispute is about more than pay. The unions are demanding job security. Who in the world actually has job security these days? And in all seriousness, what other industry grants it's workers 95% discounts on it's products. A pretty damn good perk when you're being paid $500K a year as a pilot!

    Qantas is doing reasonably well because the Australia economy is doing so well. Productivity at the company is actually declining - so by your logic, shouldn't the workers actually be taking a pay cut?

    It's international business is significantly loss-making. The domestic travel sector is propping it up so the international arm would be the first part of the company to be wound down should things go pear shaped. And a $5M deficit a week for industrial action that has lasted 15 months is no way to keep the business alive. $20M a day for 3 days is cheap - the decision was pretty easy all said and done to shut it down.

    Don't get me wrong, I actually support the role of unions, just not when they make ambit claims, won't negotiate in good faith,and threaten a national icon.


    How do both bolded phrases describe the same company at the same moment?


    Contractual performance is measured on total company profit as a single $ figure regardless on employee numbers. Productivity is based on output per employee.