Is there Something Wrong with Me?

  • kuroshiro

    Posts: 786

    Oct 30, 2011 4:57 PM GMT
    First and foremost, please have some decency. If you're only going to chime in with tl;dr, please move on. Find some other thread to spam in and raise your e-penor post count in.

    Here's my story (it's always something, I swear).

    I recently had to burn the bridge with a close friend of mine and it got me thinking about some things after he admitted something to me.

    I've been in one relationship and I've only dated two people in the four years since my last one ended. I've been close with numerous guys, close enough that true feelings can be expressed, the typical teasing can occur, etc. But here's what bothers me: every single guy that I've met in an 'honest way' (for me: not hooking up, going for coffee, etc) has told me that they initially met with me to 'use me' and be done with it.

    First and foremost: do I honestly appear to be that stupid? I know how most gay men think and I can cockblock in a heartbeat if I know the nanosecond it's going in that direction. But I digress back on topic...

    When I first met my ex, he was initially just going to use me for sex then dispose of me... but he didn't take into account the fact that I still hung around and pretty much 'beat my feelings into him'. I was relentless... trying everything to prove myself to him that someone cared for him and loved him, etc. He eventually realized it one day and we eventually became boyfriends.

    I'll skip the other people because it's not really that important, but rather the crux of my current issue. The following is part of a conversation I had with a friend after telling him that it's best we just stop communicating.

    A ConversationJ: Do you remember when we first met? Do you remember why we first met?

    Me: Yes. You were here for your father's funeral. That and you thought there was going to be a little something something going on.

    J: That's what you thought and that's the impression I gave you, yes. WHen we first met, I was a wreck. I was looking for a hookup to release my fear, anger and frustration, to get some endorphins pumping through my blood and to try to cheer up. I had planned to use you. But then we met. And we connected. Whether you choose to cut that connection or not, you will always have a special spot with me. That special spot will remind me of how meeting you changed my weaknesses to strengths. Got me through that first stage of dealing with my dad's death. Sometimes I wished you were here to help me through the misery that followed. I was such a mess for months after I got back. And I kept remembering how you were there. You didn't even know it. You were just there. I never thanked you for that.

    Thank you, BJ. You are special to me. And I really appreciate everything you've done for me whether you know you did or not. You've done a lot for me. Between my dad, and then Cleo. You were there when others that I thought would be, weren't. And not just during those times, but the others in between.

    You're a good friend and a good guy. You deserve the best and someday you will get it. Things suck now, but things will get better (not to sound cliche).


    Basically that last part is the same bullshit every single guy I've ever had feelings for has spouted at me, it's infuriating. But the problem that I'm finding lies with the fact that everyone sets out to use me but after meeting me this magically disappears and we connect on a very strong level. They're comfortable with me, they're trusting of me, they want to get to know me, heck they've even admitted to falling for me/developing feelings for me, but yet there was never anything for that final step, much like the case was with this.

    Part of the reason why I had to burn the bridge with my friend here is simply because of the last meeting we had with one another. One of our final face to face conversations resulted in him saying "falling in love with" followed by an immediate "I mean developing feelings for..." situations, and I was rather hardpressed to find more information, but got a 'I've said what I've had to say" situation with nothing every progressing from that.

    I tend to read too much into things with him anyways, I think. He was very adamant about me NOT joining the Marines and sort of did the "wink wink nudge nudge" approach with "I wish I'd SEE other options". So, I took that to mean that he was one of my other options, and I sort of sabotaged my route into the Marines (on a subconscious level). Now it's a decision I'm sort of regretting. He's not in any way using me now, as he has no reason to (before people think that). I was just hoping for something more, but I guess the distance of 1800 miles does put a damper on things.

    But, that poses the question: Is there something wrong with me? Is there some flaw I have that all of these guys seem to get that far but never enough to actually commit? Someone tried telling me that it's the law of numbers and that eventually I'll find the one, but honestly it's getting rather tiring, and it's starting to make me incredibly jaded and angry/lonesome inside. This last situation has pretty much forced me to pull away from everything... talking to others in gay guys in general, going out for coffee if need be (I just make excuses and front with work if it happens), etc.

    It's not that I jump in or latch on too quickly either. I definitely have a firm friends first policy in place in general. I prefer to move slow rather than just jump in. That gets messy. The situation with him just struck a harder chord than anything.

    If I need to elaborate on more, please let me know, but I'm hoping some peeps have come comments/opinions =)

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2011 6:23 PM GMT
    Honestly I don't really understand the scenario, but it really doesn't sound like what he did was that big of a deal. That's pretty typical of people after a death of a loved one. The fact that he wanted to 'use' you for sex is pretty common, but if he actually made a connection and started falling in love with you, why is it so bad that his initial intent was to screw and leave. That didn't happen. He had genuine feelings for you. Never cut off a friend that cares about you even if they did fuck up, which, no offense, it really doesn't sound like he fucked up to me.
  • kuroshiro

    Posts: 786

    Oct 30, 2011 6:35 PM GMT
    I'm not blaming him for messing up. I met him about a year and a half ago so that funeral part was long gone. I'm just wondering about the general pattern of responses being the same from almost all guys thus far... Wanting to use me then ending up connecting then having possible feelings but just leaving it with that.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2011 6:35 PM GMT
    How many guys have you ever said "I love you" and meant it?

    Just curious.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2011 6:51 PM GMT
    BoraBora saidHow many guys have you ever said "I love you" and meant it?

    Just curious.


    Every guy I've had sex with, when they are cumming.... do those count?

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    Oct 30, 2011 6:55 PM GMT
    I understand a few things from this.

    1. People you meet originally intend to use your for sex (a hook up / one night stand) and then leave.
    2. After the encounter, or after meeting them in general, they start getting close to you, and they develop feelings for you.
    3. This bugs you because they say they have feelings for you, but don't want to let it go further.
    4. You're burning the bridge not because you don't view him (or them) as a friend, but because you don't want your own feelings to be one way. If he isn't going to reciprocate (despite also openly feeling the same way), then there isn't any point in carrying on the friendship due to the tension.

    Right?

    Well, I've never come across such a case before, and I don't know you that well, but you certainly do seem like a nice guy. I don't think there's anything wrong with you at all.

    Perhaps what they think is that you're a good looking and fun guy, who seems to be easily taken advantage of because you're nice.
    This is just a guess, but the only thing about this that I wouldn't agree with is that you're easily taken advantage of. I would never take advantage of anyone's niceness.

    Other than that, the reason they might not want to continue with a relationship is that they're embarrassed that they originally set out to use you. By this, they might think that you wouldn't be able to accept them, given that they only had an initial interest in you because they wanted to take advantage of you. For example, if a dispute occurred during the relationship, you might say "Well you always said that you just wanted to use me! I guess you still have that intention now!" This would make them feel too guilty, and they think you deserve someone better.

    All I can advise you to do is look for a boyfriend via other means. Either way though, don't rush it. The love of your life might show up in the most unexpected way, place, and time!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2011 7:56 PM GMT
    Why do you care what random people on the internet think?

    Perhaps if you put as much energy into typing posts that can be aptly described as TL;DR you would find an answer.
  • kuroshiro

    Posts: 786

    Oct 30, 2011 8:05 PM GMT
    BAMF saidWhy do you care what random people on the internet think?

    Perhaps if you put as much energy into typing posts that can be aptly described as TL;DR you would find an answer.


    And why do you care what I think? Introspection by a neutral third party helps by pointing out things that may be overlooked.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2011 8:11 PM GMT
    kuroshiro said
    Basically that last part is the same bullshit every single guy I've ever had feelings for has spouted at me, it's infuriating. But the problem that I'm finding lies with the fact that everyone sets out to use me but after meeting me this magically disappears and we connect on a very strong level. They're comfortable with me, they're trusting of me, they want to get to know me, heck they've even admitted to falling for me/developing feelings for me, but yet there was never anything for that final step, much like the case was with this.


    This is the most telling part of your post. There's a saying: "People come into your life for a season, a reason, or a lifetime." As trite as it sounds, its true. Just because you are a great guy and an awesome friend doesn't mean you're going to be a long term match for every guy that you fall in love with nor with every guy who falls in friend with you. You and all the other young gay guys on here have to stop beating yourselves up over this.

    I saw your interview news clip and could instantly tell that you were a solid guy and intelligent to boot. Focus your time on meeting cool people and let other guys chase you for a change. Also, realize that being too available or anxious to please pushes people away so be mindful of how much energy you're devoting. And don't cut guys out of your life just because they are not in love with you or because they don't feel the way about you that you do for them. The older you get the harder it is to make true friends.
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    Oct 30, 2011 8:24 PM GMT
    You lost me at 1800 miles. I mean, that can't really be more than a friend for most people, especially someone who displays the level of emotional intensity you seem to be exhibiting. (And my pointing that out is not a judgment, just a statement. Some people are more emotional intense than others in the degree to which they feel things.) Yes, you hear stories all the time of the true loves who've been together for 10 years after Guy B moved from...Vancouver to be with Guy C in...I dunno, Botswana. But the truth is, you hear far more stories about Guy D who drives an hour or two to meet Guy G and it should have only ever been sex.

    Most humans require more immediacy for love to function. I don't believe that's a good or bad thing...it just is.

    There's nothing wrong with you. Perhaps you'd be better served by more wisely choosing your circumstances? Date someone who's 15 miles away maybe?
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    Oct 30, 2011 8:25 PM GMT
    You have to decide two things:

    1) whether you disproportionately attract guys who initially mean to use you or are simply experiencing what most gay men (and straight women) deal with: opportunistic men.

    2) what you're going to change (or not) either way.

    IMO, the VAST majority of guys I've agreed to go on platonic coffee dates with were secretly positioning themselves to move in for the kill if I ever changed my mind about not being platonic. I can literally think of 3 guys over 5 years that met me and weren't hoping for sex. How do I know? There was always the innuendo, the insinuation, the overt come-ons. From people that wanted to meet "just for coffee," as I explicitly excluded the remotest possibility of sex before agreeing to meet.

    So, I don't tend to think you "attract" them in any meaningful sense beyond being super cute, attractive, and having a penis. I.e., I don't think you're damaged or naive or needy, etc. Your profile is long and sincere (ugh, I wish I could be the same person I was a year ago and be so sincere). But that's just my impression of your post and your profile. I could be wrong?

    My recommendation? There's not much you need to change. But you have to decide if you want "total initial honesty" to be a relationship hill to die on. No one is perfect, no one is 100% transparent and honest about their wants even to themselves. I wouldn't take it so personally if someone you're dating admits things like this to you. Part of a relationship is both people helping each other grow, somewhat (though I'm sure you have a "must be this emotionally tall to ride" sign as much as I do).

    Eventually, you'll find a guy that sticks around. It does get better.


    Edit: Moar better spelling
  • BCSwimmer

    Posts: 209

    Oct 30, 2011 8:55 PM GMT
    Sorry to hear about your situation.

    It sounds like you're in a Repetitive Relationship Pattern that you need to break, often easier said than done but certainly not impossible. It's strange because it often seems like situations like this are solely because of external forces, yet each of us plays a larger role, than we realize, in creating the situations in our life.

    At the threat of being accussed of "blaming the victim" this is reminiscent of the way that some women get in one abusive relationship after another (until they are able to firmly internally declare "I don't deserve to be treated like this").

    It sounds like you are, subconsciously, attracting a repetitive pattern. The good news is you're already aware that you want it to change which I believe is the first step of breaking the cycle.

    I believe that people only break out of their cycles once they've learned the lesson and make the conviction that "I am not willing to tolerate this anymore". You've got to fully believe "I deserve better than this". For those that don't move to that step they can become cynical and bitter, blaming others for being "assholes", "flakes", etc. without realizing they have the power to change that perception of reality.

    We each have our own filters in the way we see the world and typically we tend to attract those around us who hold similiar values to ours (including how much we value ourself). You may be attracting this type of situation because you don't fully, 100% believe that you deserve better.

    Have you noticed how some people in life (or on these forums for example) say thinks like "all gay guys are such assholes" or "why are all gay guys so flaky"? That is their filters seeing that. While some gay guys are either assholes or flakes, there are many of us on here, myself included, who know many gay guys that are neither assholes nor flaky.

    An example that comes to mind for me, is that when my late partner (of almost 17 years) and I went to a going away party for a young friend we met a young gay guy there who couldn't believe we had been together for so many years and he said "I don't know anyone who has lasted as many months, most guys I know last like 17 days". Later my late partner and I discussed it and realized that, while some of our friends were single or in newer relationships, most of our friends had been together for 10, 15, 20 and in one case 30 years. Yet that young fellow didn't know anyone who had been together for more than a few months. The reality is that every possibility in life exists out there and it is what we are willing to surround ourself with, expose ourself to etc. that will assist us to get what we desire. Who are we surrounding ourself with. This young guy told us he wanted to get into a relationship yet, for the most part, was hanging around people who weren't (yet) capable of sustaining a relationship over a few months.

    On an personal note of how making an internal "declaration" changes things. When I was in my late teens and early 20s I use to always be hit on by slobbering drunks; the annoying, obnoxious types who I found repulsive. I thought why the heck are those types of people always approaching me. A friend of mine pointed out it never happened to him and said "your non-verbal communication is telling them it's alright to approach you". Interestingly I had grown up around someone with a severe drinking problem which bugged me and it was a "pattern" I was use to, and naturally while growing up felt it was something I had to accept.

    Well I made a conscious internal declaration that "I won't tolerate having obnoxious drunks hit on me, I deserve better". I didn't have to say it out loud to anyone yet I noticed immediately that I no longer was attacting the obnoxious drunks. In fact I actually remember several instances in a club or at a party where I would see an obnoxious drunk person stumbling in my direction and, where in the past they almost always seemed to make a beeline straight for me, now they would look at me and then turn in another direction and go up to someone else or whatnot. Presumably our internal convictions are non-verbally communicated outwardly.

    It was empowering for me to realize that just by making an internal declaration that I can actually make a real change to my experience in life.

    I also googled this to find some more indepth info on the topic. Here are a couple of links on how to break the pattern:

    In this first article it is item 4 that most closely seems to match what I am suggesting above (making an internal declation). The article states this, in part, as "Make a commitment to yourself to get off the cycle.":

    http://www.ehow.com/how_8393156_stop-repeating-relationship-patterns.html

    While the second one was written with language targeted towards a straight woman I think it's possible to ignore the pronouns to glean the message.

    http://www.contentconnection.com/Another-Break-up-Break-the-pattern/a9492_1

    Good luck to you!
  • dancedancekj

    Posts: 1761

    Oct 30, 2011 9:17 PM GMT
    Hmmm. I see the issue as two possibly separate issues.

    1. The beginning process. For whatever reason, you are attracting people that aren't necessarily looking to secure you as a dating potential for the long term. As you said, they were looking for something very transient, and were just looking to kind of hook up and move on.

    2. The end process. For whatever reason, you are also attracting people that aren't necessarily looking to close the deal. These people respect you and obviously liked you enough to stay with you for a reasonable amount of time, but not for the long haul.

    It appears to me that these people are either not looking for, or are not ready for a long term relationship. Given that this is what you are looking for, perhaps you need to be searching for people who are interested in that from the beginning.

    I mean, if these guys were just looking to use you and be done with you... why not just hookup and be done with it? I mean, what was their intention with getting coffee? It seems that they might be the same person as the ones that are just using you for a hookup, but they are more deceptive in that they want to use you and then be done.

    It almost seems like it is paralleling the cycles of infatuation before it hits the stability of the relationship, and that is the wall you are hitting. Obviously you are doing something right when they are sticking around and have developed romantic feelings of a sort, but I am guessing it is wearing off by the time it gets to the end stage.

    I'm not sure of the solution. Might just be that you're in the process of kissing a lot of frogs right now in terms of dating. I don't think there's anything wrong with YOU, per se, but the guys you are attracting just don't seem to be boyfriend material. I'd just be cautious in the future, and ensure that the intentions of your suitors are both straightforward and honest. Most of all, don't blame yourself necessarily for their actions - but just meditate on your actions, your feelings, and be honest with yourself.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Oct 30, 2011 9:25 PM GMT
    Brownale said
    kuroshiro said



    Focus your time on meeting cool people and let other guys chase you for a change. Also, realize that being too available or anxious to please pushes people away so be mindful of how much energy you're devoting.


    I think this is really good advice.
    Pretty much every guy goes through this stuff at your age.
    As Dan Savage says, every relationship you have will fail... until one doesn't.

    One thing I would question about your original post:
    If you meet a guy with no preconditions about a relationship or whatever, and you two have consensual intimacy, I wouldn't say anyone is being "used."
    Aren't you both doing something you want to do that you're enjoying?
  • kuroshiro

    Posts: 786

    Oct 31, 2011 2:59 AM GMT
    Ack... I just lost my lengthy reply.

    Thank you to everyone who has replied so far. The varying responses are quite interesting. I'll chime in with some points here.

    The people I've gotten close to, I haven't had sex with. I just have a policy of no sex unless we're dating or in a relationship. Call me old fashioned I guess. With the guys I've gotten to know, the desire to try for something more seems to be the switch flipper for me. So basically all emotions then shut down and everything rolls off of their backs, but yet right in front of me then can incessantly flirt and start something with someone else (and eventually end up with someone). So, that pretty much just leaves me with a "wtf" type of situation and the need to burn a bridge. Mind you they're often confused as to why, saying I'd be throwing away a great friendship and all, but it's better for me just to separate everything.

    My friend and I have a rather interesting history together. During his last visit in July, we became the closest we've ever been. It was mainly stemming, like I said, from my desire to go into the Marines. We had numerous discussions about it and he had made passing comments about just running away and stating over if need be because of my debt situation, much like he had done. I would have popped up in Albuquerque had I of had the peace of mind to, but the thought of living out of my car and dumpster diving doesn't sit well with me. Unlike the route he took to rebuild his life, I have to be more practical.

    At the same time, he also mentioned that "if he wasn't 1800 miles away, things would be different". But there were also other subtle hints that... I just couldn't act upon. I had mentioned that if I had a year to build up a savings (which is what I'm doing) to secure myself to move, I'd do it. Foolish to do it for one individual, yes I know, but it would at least propel me away from the area in the long run, which is starting to starve me (but my location is an issue for another topic).

    But overall, the pattern with these guys I suppose stemmed from the fact that I was showing them that someone genuinely cared about them, unlike their previous relationshits (did you see what I did there?). I'm a very supportive individual (as many have noted) but I'm wondering if it has to do with my myopic negativity stigma that I seem to carry around icon_cry.gif
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    Oct 31, 2011 3:25 AM GMT
    Hmmm. . . have read your posts here. Tell me if I have this basically right, because I'm not totally sure I'm following you:

    You meet a guy, things are great, you get close to each other, you make it clear that you're a good guy and really care about him, etc. . .

    And though maybe at first he just wants sex or whatever he eventually starts caring greatly for you too. . . you have those wonderful all-night talks. . . he trusts you, confides in you, maybe even loves you. . . but eventually he reveals he doesn't LOVE you, he doesn't want to be your BF. . . and the commitment you thought he had really isn't there. . .

    . . . and it turns out part of the reason for the earlier intensity was based on a need he had at the time. . . like he was lonely or depressed or whatever and just needed someone there for him, and you were the one. He still cares for you now, but his feelings have dropped a few notches and now he wants less of you, not more. But you want more.

    Is that fairly accurate or am I reading stuff into this? (Sorry if I missed the mark.)

    But if so. . . no, I don't think anything's wrong with you.


  • kuroshiro

    Posts: 786

    Oct 31, 2011 3:47 AM GMT
    Not entirely. He admitted that while his initial intent was to do such, upon meeting me changed all that, which was for the better. Aka: he got something really good out of that situation (a friend like me).

    He wasn't backtracking to that time when I first met him (well over a year ago). That and I don't think (at least I haven't gleaned) that he cares any less for me than he has before. I'm not sure what to make of it lol
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    Nov 01, 2011 11:05 AM GMT
    kuroshiro saidNot entirely. He admitted that while his initial intent was to do such, upon meeting me changed all that, which was for the better. Aka: he got something really good out of that situation (a friend like me).

    He wasn't backtracking to that time when I first met him (well over a year ago). That and I don't think (at least I haven't gleaned) that he cares any less for me than he has before. I'm not sure what to make of it lol


    In some ways, I think you're ACTUALLY quite lucky that they were so honest with you. Some of these people could have lied about having true feelings for you just to use you for emotional support and sex.

    I've seen it happen.

    Perhaps your integrity actually changed them for the better.
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    Nov 01, 2011 10:02 PM GMT
    I dont know man sorry to hear you had to go through this confusion. Someone once said to me that the "gay life" is pretty lonely because most guys are in it for just the hook up and never really can connect with that special someone cause most men are wired for that instant gratification physical stuff and then to move on to the next one. (I'm kinda paraphrasing what I was told but you get it)

    And I thought to myself...why am I looking so hard to find someone to date and be devoted to them!?!? Am I weird ? lol

    I feel ya though and what he said was and still is confusing to me cuz I'm not wired that way. I cant just hookup with someone. Im way too emotional.

    So in conclusion, sorry i spouted off about our similarities for a sec but I just think your a lot like me and I wish I had an answer to why dudes are so shady sometimes about their feelings, but I dont.

    We gots to keep truckin along buddy icon_smile.gif
  • whatatrouble

    Posts: 12

    Nov 05, 2011 2:42 PM GMT
    Actually it‘s really simply--you're just a nice guy and those guys you met are just not into long term relationships.
    I don't think there's anything wrong with you. You just need to move on and find someone better, which you deserve.