HELP!!! wana gain mucsle without supplements

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    Oct 30, 2011 10:28 PM GMT
    hey guys...okay so heres my situation....

    im a 20 year old guy...im not fat...but im not skinny either..(excluding my ankles and wrists)...haha..im an average build...

    anyway, i wanted to know if any1 out there could give me some advice on what to eat and when to eat it...i wana gain muscle, but not to such an extent as body builders....i jus wana have a nice body with muscles...and a less fat %....

    i just started working out 3 weeks ago...i work out 5 days a week...my gym instructor gave me a good work out plan in which i workout 2 muscle groups for the 1st 3 days, and the last 2 days, i repeat the 1st 2 days work out....so basically its like 1..2..3..1..2...thats my exercise routine...and do core and cardio exercises everyday....

    all i need to know,is what do i eat before i exercise everyday and what do i eat after i exercise....i really would appreciate your input guys...thanx...

    ps...i have a thing against supplements, so please if all the advice could be from natural foods...

    hope to hear from you experts as well as guys in my situation...if any...
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    Oct 31, 2011 2:06 AM GMT
    And the topic was so important that you had to create a second, identical one 17 minutes after your first?
  • calibro

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    Oct 31, 2011 4:33 AM GMT
    so this is different from your other thread because here you"wana" but there you "need"
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    Oct 31, 2011 4:48 AM GMT
    Please explain WHY you are not comfortable drinking protein shakes. Because despite the five hundred replies that are going to argue this after I post it: it's going to be virtually impossible for you to get a muscular and lean body without supplementing with some protein shakes.
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    Oct 31, 2011 5:05 AM GMT
    thenes saidPlease explain WHY you are not comfortable drinking protein shakes. Because despite the five hundred replies that are going to argue this after I post it: it's going to be virtually impossible for you to get a muscular and lean body without supplementing with some protein shakes.


    I too would like to understand the reasoning behind his aversions. I have a thing about Rx meds but that's only because i was force-fed them as a child to "control" me. Supplements OTOH, i'm confused. I mean, a freakin Centrum counts as a "supplement"
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    Oct 31, 2011 6:01 AM GMT
    thenes saidPlease explain WHY you are not comfortable drinking protein shakes. Because despite the five hundred replies that are going to argue this after I post it: it's going to be virtually impossible for you to get a muscular and lean body without supplementing with some protein shakes.


    ive heard rumors about them....which no1 seemed to disagree with....1 of them was, that if i do take muscle building supplements, itll work fine, but then 1ce i reach my target, if i stop using them, my muscles will begin to atrophy because i wont be training as hard....is this true?
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    Oct 31, 2011 6:06 AM GMT
    I think you're thinking of steroids. There's a HUGE difference between supplements and steroids. Supplements are just natural things from food and such.

    However, yes, if you stop lifting as heavy and stop getting as much protein, your muscles will atrophy, no matter whether you gained that muscle mass via meat or whey protein powder.
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    Oct 31, 2011 6:11 AM GMT
    thenes saidI think you're thinking of steroids. There's a HUGE difference between supplements and steroids. Supplements are just natural things from food and such.

    However, yes, if you stop lifting as heavy and stop getting as much protein, your muscles will atrophy, no matter whether you gained that muscle mass via meat or whey protein powder.


    oooh...are you serious...? haha....looks like i jus made a fool of myself...
    well anyway, out of the many, MANY supplements available....which do you use, and if u have an input, which 1 do yu think i should use?
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    Oct 31, 2011 6:15 AM GMT
    Definitely a protein powder. You should drink 1-2 scoops of whey protein powder IMMEDIATELY after your workout. And it would be wise to drink at least one or two more protein drinks throughout the day as well to help you reach that 1.5g protein per lb of body weight a day goal. Some L-Glutamine to help you recover and protect your body and some BCAAs would be a good idea too.
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    Oct 31, 2011 6:37 AM GMT
    courage-go-for-it-cubby-motivational-129
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    Nov 01, 2011 5:50 PM GMT
    Thenes is totally correct regarding his various posts.... First of all, buying whey protein and L-Glutamine supplements are perfectly healthy ways to help you reach your fitness goals, including putting on weight and more specifically muscle. These two products, while readily available at many health supplement stores, gyms, etc are also sold directly in pharmacies. If you are worried about the content of some of these supplements, I would advise you to buy directly from a pharmacy where there are nutritionists and pharmacists on hand to answer any of your questions. The difference between these two locations is twofold: first, the incredibly ripped guy at the counter of the health supplement store may be able to tell you which products help you gain weight fast, but he probably hasnt been trained in chemistry, biology or other sciences. His knowledge about side effects, complications with other medicines, etc would be very limited as compared to a trained pharmacist. Second, pharmacies are held to a higher standard. The products they sell are usually more limited, but its the ones that are proven to be safe. Most are approved by Health Canada (the equivalent of the FDA) and probably have similar certifications in the States. You wont accidentally be buying anything that is "harmful" to you if you take the pharmacy route.

    Also, Thenes was bang on about muscle atrophy. Like anything else, if you stop practicing, you'll get rusty. With your muscles, this is no different. If you train hard for 6 months or a year or even 5 years and then you take a substantial amount of time off, you will lose muscle mass. You need to talk to a nutritionist or personal trainer about what your goals are, how to achieve them, and then what to do once you achieve them. Not every guy out there is looking for the bodybuilder image where you are always looking to get bigger, and thus you need an exit strategy after getting the body you want. If your goal is to put on a few pounds of muscle and lower your body fat percentage, then once you reach this plateau, you need to reduce the amount of calories you take in (from fat, protein and carbs) to about the same amount of calories you exert in a day. (While gaining weight you obviously want to have a higher intake than output). For example, once you get to your goal of gaining 10lbs of muscle and reducing your body fat percentage by 5 points, you need to continue doing physical activity, including weight lifting (although maybe not as intense as before) and have a solid diet that will adequately meet the daily requirements of your new body.

    Lastly, the whole point of supplements is that they SUPPLEMENT your diet and work out needs. Depending on your diet, goals, timelines, etc, trainers will suggest you get between 1g and 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight. Ie. if you are 150lbs, you need between 150g and 225g of protein per day while working out. Considering most single servings of meat (beef, chicken, turkey, etc) contain less than 30g of protein, its very hard to consume this much protein on a daily basis (and costly as well). I know of people who take the "natural" approach and have up to 6 breasts of chicken per day, tons of nuts, beans, lentils, tuna, etc. and the results are ALWAYS two fold: they put on a lot of muscle, but they put on a lot of body fat as well. One great thing about whey protein supplements is that they are usually about 90% protein. These other high protein foods are generally under 30% protein, the rest being either fat or carbs. In order to get 225g of protein the natural way, a person ends up consume 6000-7000 calories per day. This is what Michael Phleps requires for his swimming training in which he spends 8 hours in a pool! The average male burns about 3000 calories a day and with a good work out plan and cardio, most guys dont burn over 4500 calories a day. Whey protein is a great way to keep the protein-calorie ratio where you want it without getting a lot of extra fats and carbs.

    I was a varsity track and field sprinter for my university here in Canada for 5 years and I competed all over North America and Europe. I've had numerous coaches, trainers, nutritionists, sports doctors, kinesiologists, etc over the years and they have all said pretty much the same thing: plan out your diet, consume 5-6 smaller meals a day instead of 3 large ones. Figure out how many calories you burn in a day based on height, weight, physical activities, etc. (internet sites are useful for this) then figure out how many calories you need to consume to reach your goals. Then count EVERYTHING and be very strict about your diet. Your diet is about 60% of what it takes to reach your goals, with weight lifting, cardio, good nights sleep, etc making up the other 40%. Good healthy food is important, and make sure you are getting at least 50% of the protein you require from natural foods. This is why its called "supplements".
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    Nov 01, 2011 6:09 PM GMT
    Sorry for the lengthy response, got a bit carried away. I was responding to the supplement aversion thread of this post and didnt really answer chucked's question:

    First, you need to be fully fuelled before you work out. Make sure you are drinking a ton of water throughout the day and eat a lot of good, clean high energy foods (avoid simple sugars like white bread and even wheat where you can since they metabolize the quickest into fat molecules and stored by the body). Think oatmeal for breakfast, low sugar fruits like bananas, nuts, etc. Now here's where there is going to be a huge rift in opinions: some people will tell you to have a protein shake BEFORE you work out and others will say NO! do it immediately afterwards. The conflicting ideas are that you need energy to work out and build muscles while you are working out. The other is that you need to fuel the muscles as they repair themselves. I am in the second boat. I have read that eating a lot before a work out will impede muscle growth. The food in your stomach causes the pancreas to release insulin to help maintain blood sugar levels and aid in digestion. Unfortunately, insulin inadvertently assists your body to perform the work of lifting the weights by providing spikes of energy. This assistance, however, reduces the amount of work that your muscles actually do and reduces the amount of muscle fibre tears during a work out which actually inhibits muscle growth during the recovery period. Think of it as lifting weights while using a crutch. Athletes use energy drinks and chocolate bars before and during games to keep their energy levels up, not to help them gain muscle. The general rule of thumb is to not eat anything heavy for about 2 hours before you work out, continue hydrating with water, and get 40g of protein immediately after working out. This helps rebuild torn muscles. Also, it should be noted that the body cannot process more than 40g of protein at one time. So consuming 100g of protein after a work out means that 60g is just broken down as waste. This is also hard on the kidneys, so when consuming protein be sure to limit the amount to about 40g every 2-3 hours and consume a lot of water in the process.

    My last comment on the subject is regarding your concern for atrophy. By the way you described it, I think you might have heard people talking about creatine. Essentially, creatine is an amino acid that the body gets naturally from the foods we eat. It helps supply energy to muscle fibres. However, by taking creatine supplements which increases the natural level 2-3x, creatine effectively pumps extra water into the muscles. This helps give the impression that your muscles have grown even bigger, enhancing the pumped look. However, the results disappear almost as quickly as they appear if you stop taking creatine or you become dehydrated. Regular use is also hard on the kidneys. Creatine is more a quick-fix solution since your muscles dont actually grow and this supplement doesnt actually make you stronger or able to lift more weights. Whey protein builds muscle fibre, creatine pumps water into the muscles. Personally, I avoid creatine altogether, but if you want a pumped look or hot abs before a pool party, start taking it a week beforehand, and then stop as soon as you put your shirt back on icon_razz.gif
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    Nov 02, 2011 4:09 AM GMT
    Before your workout, you'll want to consume as many complex carbs as you can, within an hour of your workout. Things like oatmeal, bread, or granola.They're the carbs that help produce energy.

    Then immediatly after your workout, you want to consume as many calories, carbs, and protein as possible. If you want to gain serious lean mass, you'll want to consume atleast 1.5 grams of protein or more per lb of your body weight per day. Creatine also makes a big difference.

    Also the quality of the protein you use makes a big difference aswell. The most traditional is (whey protein) for maintnance. For serious mass, there are mass gainers. Where they give you a surplus in calories, complex carbs, and protein, and some have creatine in them.

    There's also (casein protein) which is a slower digesting protein that you find in things like cheese and milk. It's the best to take before bed cause it will digest throuh out the night.
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    Nov 04, 2011 4:08 PM GMT
    I would say transforming your body to get bigger is about 35% nutritional and the rest physical(exercise). To that end the protein needed to gain lots of muscle weight needs to be so much higher Thames what you take now, and the time in which it is consumed needs to be carefully planned.

    Protein shakes help to thus effect because they quickly are digested, and its a quick way to ingest roughly 40g of protein. The strain on your body to constantly break down hard food like chicken and beef is rough.

    If you're concerned about weird additives to your protein, I'd suggest On Whey brand.
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    Nov 04, 2011 4:14 PM GMT
    It's hard to gain muscle while losing muscle/fat through cardio.

    You don't have to use protein shakes, but it is much easier to get protein from a shake than cook a steak everytime you need 50g of protein.

    If you want to gain muscle, you have to accept that some fat is going to come with it. You have to eat, and eat a lot. You want foods high in protein, and carbohydrates (not sugar). Fat will be part of that diet too, so just be conscientious of what you're eating.


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    Nov 04, 2011 4:56 PM GMT
    I'm not a fan of supplements either. I used them for a while (whey protein and creatine), and I think they definitely helped when I first started working out, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to gain and maintain muscle without them. Just be smart about your diet (not just before and after workouts, but throughout the day), and be consistent with your workouts.

    My meals are generally high carb and high protein... very low fat. My workout shake is just soy milk, banana, and berries (strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, whatever's fresh). You could use regular non-fat milk too. I avoid rice milk 'cause it hardly has any protein and is usually sweetened with a lot of sugar.

    Hope that helps a little. I think there are definitely enough natural sources of protein out there that you don't need a supplement.