My rant about Politicians and the War.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 17, 2007 8:52 PM GMT
    Wow. My first new topic. I mentioned this in another thread but felt I was taking it off topic so...here I am...

    Politicians and The War. I hate politicians. Unfortunately we here in the United States have a very apathetic and lazy electorate when it comes to voting. A right that people in other countries are dying for we take as a matter of routine and only turn out some 33% of those even eligable to vote.

    My father works a polling station on election day. This last election cycle (and we are in the suburbs of a city) they had 28 people show up all day long to vote. Pathetic.

    The result. We end up with a Congress of do nothings (Republican and Democrat) and political deadlock between the two major political parties.

    One of my favorite generals and personal hero's is General of the Army George C. Marshall. While he was in uniform he never voted and never expressed his political view. His concern was the military. By not showing any preference in the politics of the country he was not influenced by either the Republicans or the Democrats. When he would provide testimony before the Congress he was able to tell the truth and not what one group wanted to hear.

    Unfortunately we don't have people like that anymore. Politicans all look for the soundbite and our leaders here go which ever way the wind is blowing at the time.

    I can't stand wishy washy politicians who thought it was good to vote for the war authorization but now 'regret and apologize' for that vote. Don't apologize. Stand by your vote. Don't flip flop all over the place. Shows a real character flaw in my book.

    Just say that the vote at the time was the right thing based upon the evidence and now you would vote to do something different.

    Okay. I'm done.
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    Jul 17, 2007 10:57 PM GMT
    There was a time when all active duty military officers were suggested to refrain from voteing or doing any "political" actiivity.
    Marshall was not unusual for his time. Ike followed the same rule. MacArthur did not because of his problems with Truman? Colin Powell did not because he got most of his rank Regan/Bush 1 White House?.

    If a politician (and all elected or would be elected officials are politicians) doesn't change his position after he gets new information he is dumb.

    If some one believed the crap Bush was putting out at the start of the Iraq fiasco, then voting for the war was logical.

    I think they were dumb to believe it. I didn't, but I never doubted that Bush would try to get a was started in Iraq if only to upstage his father.

    The local representative who voted against the war was called a traitor.

    On the other hand, I doubt that Mit Romney has received any valid new information about Gays. So you can call him a flip-floper.



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    Jul 17, 2007 11:18 PM GMT
    If the political parties get too far apart, then every election becomes a cause for Civil War or a demand for new elections.

    America is relatively stable because the parties are basically close. Other countries nationalize the oil fields with one election and privatizes them to party hacks with the next change.

    I too work the voting stations. As a liberal in a liberal area, I am still frequently disappointed by who gets elected even with a 60% turn out. But that's democracy for you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 17, 2007 11:18 PM GMT
    If the political parties get too far apart, then every election becomes a cause for Civil War or a demand for new elections.

    America is relatively stable because the parties are basically close. Other countries nationalize the oil fields with one election and privatizes them to party hacks with the next change.

    I too work the voting stations. As a liberal in a liberal area, I am still frequently disappointed by who gets elected even with a 60% turn out. But that's democracy for you.
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    Jul 17, 2007 11:33 PM GMT
    We've all heard the people that gripe about who won a political race. When you ask them who they voted for they come back with the reply, "Well, I didn't vote because I didn't think it would make a difference...". Wouldn't make a difference. I bet Al Gore would have a comment about that.

    I like Colin Powell. I think he was the only credible person in the Bush White House. I think he was used by Bush and that Cheney/Rumsfeld were the real ones calling the shots. Rummy's out, all Tricky Dicky's game now.

    Good grief...need to make another margarita and chill....
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Jul 18, 2007 12:17 AM GMT
    Chilling with a margarita sounds great to me,Chuckmeister.I can see how you military guys get driven up the wall by politics and political guys,even in a democracy.Have another....
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    Jul 18, 2007 12:30 AM GMT
    My alcohol buzz indicator is going off (nose is numb).

    :)

    Maybe one more and I'll call it a night on the drinking.

    (Hate drinking alone...real downer...)

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    Jul 18, 2007 12:56 AM GMT
    Being the most credible person in the Bush White House is not setting a high standard even when I agree.

    My problems with Powell started when he led the mutiny against gays in the military that caused the "Don't ask, Don't Tell." compromise.

    If anyone should have saluted and said "Aye, Aye, Sir," it should have been a guy who had profited from Truman's "social experiment" of integrating the races in the military. But I think at that time Powell was considering a run against Clinton's second term.

    However, since Powell's son turned out to be a real prude at the FCC, Colin may really be against all things gay and not just a political opportunist.

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    Jul 18, 2007 1:35 AM GMT
    I met Powell twice when he was first a two star in Germany and then a three star general headed to the Reagan White House to be National Security Advisor (obviously I am now dating myself)

    The first time was a brief five minute conversation outside his quarters. I had to drive an Air Force general to a cook out he was hosting. I had no idea who he was or what he looked like. He came down to the car and started chatting about some sporting event. since he was in civilian clothes I didn't give him a second thought. Later he had his aide bring me a couple of hamburgers from the dinner.

    The second time I met him he was in uniform and headed to Washington D.C. from Germany. For some reason I was at the ramp to drop off an a general that was headed back to the states with him. Powell approached me and asked how the burgers were.

    Just a personal recollection.
  • SkyMiles

    Posts: 963

    Jul 22, 2007 2:22 AM GMT
    I understand, to a degree, about voter apathy given the choices we're given. Needless to say, having only TWO parties in a country THIS big and diverse is completely ridiculous!!

    Every other civilized nation has (in addition to universal heath care, but that's another forum) a COALITION government. More points of view are given representation, or the governing coalition loses power.
    In Bush world, his 51% of the vote (obtained by hook AND by crook) means he has the right to crush the remaining 49%. This is NOT democracy.

    Having said all that, participation in our largely ceremonial democratic rituals is still important. Hell, I even write my stupid senators, Linsey (Huckleberry) Graham and Jim (DeMented) DeMint! America's ass is in deep shit if these creeps are in charge of any of it!!!

    As for the military, it's clear they are not in charge of this war despite how often Bush and Co. says they're "listening" to the generals. Remember Shinseki who actually told the truth -- that it would take 300,000 soldiers to secure Iraq? Um, yeah, Paul Wolfowitz ate him up and crapped him out, ended his career. Every general since has played along. It sucks. But as long as people vote for ideology over competance and qualifications, then this is what we get.
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    Jul 22, 2007 8:02 PM GMT
    While coalition government may have some virtues in parlamentry government systems, it does not arise simply by having several parties.

    You could have a dozen parties, but without changes large parts of the US constitution there would be very little effect. The Speaker of the House is not a Prime Minister.

    (I, too, have many complaints about how little opposition the Democrats have given Bush.)

    It might also be remembered that Hitler came to power without having a majority of the seats in his parliment; and that post WWII goverenments in Italy and France changed almost daily because some member of their weak coalitions sneezed.
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    Jul 22, 2007 8:47 PM GMT
    I agree - including the statement about Colin Powell. I've heard numberous anecdotes that suggest he is also a really nice guy, aside from being an accomplished diplomat and the only articulate, dignified member of Bush's administration.

    Of course, there are good reasons he couldn't handle being part of that administration any longer. It was a sad (but actually understandable) day for moderates when he left. I think it was his humanity and sense of conscience and integrity that had a significant role in that decision.

    I've been watching the drama unfold in advance of 08 and it really is going to be an interesting - and probably frustrating - battle. I will say I find Obama a compelling candidate, and am eagerly watching to see him in the months ahead.

    I think the first and highest priority of the next president should be to repair our relations with the rest of the Western world (Europe in particular). I'd really like to see someone rise above the finger pointing and simply shine a progressive light forward... Unfortunately I am still skeptical that either party contains a candidate with any real leadership. It would require someone who has a truly altruistic side, as in this day and age, a person with those qualifications could live a far more comfortable life (probably even at a higher salary) in the private sector.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jul 29, 2007 12:18 PM GMT
    Slowly...very slowly
    we are starting to see the lies and criminalities that led us to this sorry point in American history
    Gonzo Gonzalez and Andy Card going into a hospital room of a sedated Attorney General to get permission to the NSA project...permission that was NOT granted by the acting and Non-sedated AG

    Scooter Libby getting convicted of obstruction of justice and then being summarily granted clemency by Bush

    Pat Tillman being murdered and then lied about to bandy a war that has killed hundreds of thousands
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    Dec 01, 2007 1:25 AM GMT
    I think our politicians are the perfect mirror to the American people. Are they corrupt? Maybe but do we have corrupt citizens, of course we do.
    Americans, especially those who vote for Democrats love to sell their votes. In example; "you give me welfare, I'll vote for you". Or; "you allow my union to keep extorting from my company, I'll vote for you". I agree, it's disgusting. And my personal favorite; "you allow me to marry my same sex partner and I'll vote for you, I could care less what you do to the rest of the country".