In loving memory of General Yitzak Rabin MK (1922 - 1995)

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 04, 2011 2:34 PM GMT
    xnzI1994926.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 04, 2011 7:48 PM GMT
    If only the leaders who came after him had followed his leadership and carried on with his initiatives. Had they done so we may very well have an Israel living in peace along side Palestine and a much more peacefull Middle East. Rabin stands out for his efforts toward peace, that is for sure.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2011 11:24 AM GMT
    yet sadly assassinated by a radical, right wing Israeli extremist for signing the Oslo Accords. he was, perhaps, the last, best hope for lasting and actual peace in the Holy Land.

    it reminds me that in a republic, my armor is the Constitution and my weapon my vote. no one has the right to take my vote away by unilaterally deciding to make it null and void.

    (shalom/peace, Mr. Rabin)
  • shutoman

    Posts: 505

    Nov 05, 2011 12:53 PM GMT
    Well remembered by people from a whole variety of backgrounds. Rest in Peace.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2011 3:13 PM GMT
    I think Rabin's greatest legacy was teaching Israel that "you make peace with your enemies".

    Pre-state Israel had been open to peace in 1937 and 1947, and after successfully defending itself during the 1948 war, also in 1949. but with the lone exception of Sadat's Egypt (30 years later) there were no takers (all other Arab parties boycotted President Carter's peace summit). Despite Rabin and his Labor party being in power for virtualy that entire period (and perhaps half the time since).

    Indeed, Sadat had been assassinated and the peace between Israel and Egypt was at best a cold one. Israel was making peace with Lebanon in the early 1980s only to see its President assassinated. And the only reason that Arafat was appearing to give peace a chance in the 1990s was that he had painted himself into a corner by siding with Saddam (who had just invaded Kuwait), thus alienating his financiers in the Gulf. So while Israel and Israelis yearned for peace, at best they lacked a partner and at worst it wasn't clear that peace would arrive before Godot.

    It was Rabin who turned that around and reinstilled hope.

    Unfortunately, nearly 20 years into the peace process, we have yet to find a Palestinian Arab leader with the courage to lead his or her people toward peace. Who can unambiguously and unequivocally accept Israel as a Jewish state, foresake violence, and accept the paradigm of compromise (to give just a little to get a lot rather than make one list of unilateral demands after another, never committing to any concrete concessions along the way).

    See also:

    UNSCR 242, Oslo Accords, Camp David 2000 and Taba 2001
    (I support the Clinton COMPROMISE parameters. Do you?!)

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/354843

    Yalla, Peace!
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1285693

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2011 4:04 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]Caesarea4 said[/cite]I think Rabin's greatest legacy was teaching Israel that "you make peace with your enemies".



    Unfortunately, nearly 20 years into the peace process, we have yet to find a Palestinian Arab leader with the courage to lead his or her people toward peace. Who can unambiguously and unequivocally accept Israel as a Jewish state, foresake violence, and accept the paradigm of compromise (to give just a little to get a lot rather than make one list of unilateral demands after another, never committing to any concrete concessions along the way).

    See also:




    Sometimes LIL'AIPAC (C4) its just plain wrong to ignore your Zionistic Propaganda that is so fanatical that its obviously way off base.




    First off, I've read from Isreali sites that Mrs Rabin to a large degree holds Netanyahu's far right flame fanning of raticals for her husbands assasination. Unless you base your beliefs only on propaganda, the Palestinians were a peace Partner with Rabin, but that was brought to an end by the same Zionist Radicals who keep repeating the propaganda that Palestinians don't want peace.

    These Radicals in part represented by the LIKUD's and like LIL'AIPAC while complaining that Palestinians keep walking away from peace, at the same time declare that Palestine never existed, that they have no claim to the land, therefore land grabbing and Settlement Building is not theft nor against the law. This while claiming that the Palestinians walk away from peace when in fact its their fanatic group who put the stop to the peace offerings that the Palestinians were in fact in the process of accepting. This happened with Rabin and with Olmert, Netanyahu made sure the Offerings of Olmerts came to an end by his taking them off the table, (Even Olmert veryfied this) but then Netanyahu and his ilk try to claim that the Palestinians walked away from peace which is a direct lie. LIL'AIPAC knows this, but like above keeps spewing out this propaganda lie. These fanatic Ideologs totally ignore international law, the treaties they've signed and the UN declarations over bible stories they purport verifies Israels sole claim to the land.

    These Radical Fanatics, the LIKUDS, and others agree with LIL'AIPAC's own father who wrote "WHO NEEDS A SECOND PALESTINIAN HOMELAND", where he explains that the Palestinians homeland is in Jordan, not the West Bank. Its quite apparent by LIL'AIPAC's writings that this is his belief also.

    Point is, these radicals accusing Palestine of not wanting peace, cannot have it both ways, their hypocrisy is obvious, on the one hand they steal the land, building Settlements on the land to frustate any hopes of a two state solution, by placing preconditions on the ground. Then they have brought about the end of peace offers by fair minded predecessors, like Rabin and Olmert, that the Palestinians were indeed accepting and working out details on, then try to claim that its the Palestinians fault for not accepting peace offers.

    The above at the hands of the Zionist Radicals is the express definition of Chutzpah, in blaming others for what you, yourself bring about, next they'll want an apology from the Palestinians. LOL


    LIL'AIPAC, you could have left out your radical propaganda and just settled with giving honor to Rabin, but no, you cannot miss an opportunity to falsely cast blame by spewing our your fanatic propaganda. Look in the mirror and you'll see a radical like the LIKUD's who are to blame for the end to what Rabin and Olmert started and the Palestinians were agreeing to. The problem was that your ilk didn't then, nor do they intend to now, give up the fanatic Ideological dream of 'Greater Israel' which means all of the West Bank for Israel and pushing the Palestinians over to Jordan. Read the statements of Danon the Head Of the LIKUD's, read of liebermans opinions about a state for Palestine in the West Bank, Read the LIKUD Party platforms regarding the west bank and settlements. Then tell me who is blocking the 2 state solution with a Palestinian run West Bank.

    The radicals are what brought the end to Rabin, and to Olmerts Fair negotiations, not the Palestinians.


    Don't take my word for this, read the many writers who expose these truths on Israeli sites, Look up Haaretz News where many a Jewish writer exposes the above facts as to who the real block to peace is.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2011 4:16 PM GMT
    tailgater_3 saidwe are here to honor a gr8 man. please do not turn this into a political debate--there are other threads for that.



    Thank you for agreeing with me that LIL'AIPAC should stop taking every oportunity to spread his false propaganda, sometimes it just has to be exposed, this was no place for it.

    It does dishonor to Babin to distort his proud record
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2011 7:19 PM GMT
    tailgater_3 saidyet sadly assassinated by a radical, right wing Israeli extremist for signing the Oslo Accords. he was, perhaps, the last, best hope for lasting and actual peace in the Holy Land.


    This. Still shocking after all these years. And bitterly disappointing that Israeli radicals sabotaged Rabin's peace process.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2011 7:22 PM GMT
    Pouncer saidOkay. Will you do the same for Arafat in six days' time? You know, the guy Rabin made peace with in 1995?
    Or is this just about one side?

    Why don't you take that on, and those of us who choose to ignore it will do so.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2011 8:54 PM GMT
    Pouncer said
    socalfitnessWhy don't you take that on, and those of us who choose to ignore it will do so.

    I would, if me and like-minded people were the only ones involved. But what I wouldn't do (unlike the thinking behind this thread) is create division simply for division's sake.

    Also unlike the OP, I value the few Palestinians we have on this site - Arafat-supporters or not.

    Arafat had a opportunities to support the peace process during the Clinton administration and he walked away. As far as the Palestinians on the site, I obviously can't speak for the OP, but one of my friends on this site has a Palestinian background, and he is pretty active. I don't agree with all his positions, but I like him and respect him. Unlike others, he is position oriented and not focused on demonizing a demographic.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2011 9:55 PM GMT
    tailgater_3 saidb/c ppl will just make it into another hate thread. there's enough of those already. peace be with you/shalom/shalam/ouda'ko.




    Why is it always considered hate when facts are brought out about the far right and often very radical Zionist Fanatics whose main mission is to acquire all of the West Bank for 'greater Israel'. Think about how this accusation of hate for any and all criticism of Israel, fits in with the indoctrination by Israeli Lobby (AIPAC and affilliates) propaganda, that we particularly in the US are the victims of. There is no match for it in the US, NONE !!!

    If not for the allpervading media onslaught by the Israeli Lobby group AIPAC :


    Would Americans accept accept 41 of 54 out of the Bush/Cheney Administration having dual Citizenship with another country ? Say it had been Russia rather than Israel?

    Would Americans so readily accept going to war in Iraq as pushed for from the organization Project For The New American Century (PNAC) whose membership was made up of some 80% AIPAC affiliated or Dual Citizenship with Israel?

    Part of that groups goal was Iran, which Bush actually stopped from happening, the Group disbanded in disgrace, but former members and war hawks are now pushing again for war with IRAN. Would this be accepted coming away from the Iraq and Afganistan Failure without the constrant drum of AIPAC and afficliates propaganda to support Israel ?

    Would Americans accept so readily the Attrocities committed by Israel in its origination and ongoing even now without the constant propaganda that they are the victims when in fact they often start and promote attrocities which frustrate peace for the end goal of "Greater Israel" ?

    Ask yourselves these questions and search out the truth, its there, most of the informed world knows these facts, that is why in the recent UNESCO membership vote only 14 voted with the US our of 193, and most of even them are small country's in some way dependent upon the US.

    Read and don't take my word for anything, the information is out there and easily obtainable. Once viewed, its easy to see just how propagandized we are in the US to support Israel regardless of how terribly unfair its been in relation to all of its neighbors, but particularly toward Palistine.


    AND NO IT IS NOT HATE TO POINT OUT THESE TRUTHS


    Take note of one more thing, I tell you to study these matters our for yourselves, you will not read such statements from LIL'AIPAC (Ceaserea 4) in reference to his beliefs that Palestine never existed, that they have no rights to the land except at Israel's disgression, that Rabin never committed the above attrocities, but you will however be called anti Israel, a Jew Hater, one of the Hatists, Anti Semitic if you question him or disagree with his propaganda. Search it out and see for yourself.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2011 10:04 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Pouncer said
    socalfitnessWhy don't you take that on, and those of us who choose to ignore it will do so.

    I would, if me and like-minded people were the only ones involved. But what I wouldn't do (unlike the thinking behind this thread) is create division simply for division's sake.

    Also unlike the OP, I value the few Palestinians we have on this site - Arafat-supporters or not.

    Arafat had a opportunities to support the peace process during the Clinton administration and he walked away. As far as the Palestinians on the site, I obviously can't speak for the OP, but one of my friends on this site has a Palestinian background, and he is pretty active. I don't agree with all his positions, but I like him and respect him. Unlike others, he is position oriented and not focused on demonizing a demographic.




    Your just quoting LIL'AIPAC propaganda about Arafat walking away from the peace offered through olmert

    Olmert left office before those negotiations were complete, Arafat was indeed accepting of those peace offerings but Olmerts next in line took those offers off the table, then turned the blame around on Arafat, That act is what 'Chustzpah' consists of, being at fault but blaming your opponent. Netanyahu is very good at it.


    Look up the Olmert interviews in New York where he verified what I write above about his negotiations with Arafat, then be man enough to come back and admit that you were wrong. Arafat did not turn down peace !!! the Peace that was offered was taken off the table by the LIKUD's next in power.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2011 10:40 PM GMT
    realifedad said
    socalfitness said
    Pouncer said
    socalfitnessWhy don't you take that on, and those of us who choose to ignore it will do so.

    I would, if me and like-minded people were the only ones involved. But what I wouldn't do (unlike the thinking behind this thread) is create division simply for division's sake.

    Also unlike the OP, I value the few Palestinians we have on this site - Arafat-supporters or not.

    Arafat had a opportunities to support the peace process during the Clinton administration and he walked away. As far as the Palestinians on the site, I obviously can't speak for the OP, but one of my friends on this site has a Palestinian background, and he is pretty active. I don't agree with all his positions, but I like him and respect him. Unlike others, he is position oriented and not focused on demonizing a demographic.




    Your just quoting LIL'AIPAC propaganda about Arafat walking away from the peace offered through olmert

    Olmert left office before those negotiations were complete, Arafat was indeed accepting of those peace offerings but Olmerts next in line took those offers off the table, then turned the blame around on Arafat, That act is what 'Chustzpah' consists of, being at fault but blaming your opponent. Netanyahu is very good at it.


    Look up the Olmert interviews in New York where he verified what I write above about his negotiations with Arafat, then be man enough to come back and admit that you were wrong. Arafat did not turn down peace !!! the Peace that was offered was taken off the table by the LIKUD's next in power.

    Save your typical nonsense. I followed the news from multiple sources back then and I know what happened. Arafat's actions were a disappointment to the Clinton administration.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2011 12:05 AM GMT
    tailgater_3 said^^^

    it becomes hateful when the handful of ppl follow each other to each thread, and politicize/pollute it w/ the same arguments/positions they've stated ad naseum.

    shouting at each other adds nothing positive imo. i fear some have simply stopped listening. bitter words...closed minds...closed hearts....




    And the reaction you express, is exactly what happens when fanatic propaganda to cover up the truth enters the picture and is exposed, the person exposing gets pulled into the net by the propaganda tactics which try to make the right stance look at fault for taking on the propaganda.

    But do we just accept the propaganda and just let it be all that is heard ? After all someone, some group is benefitting more from spreading the propaganda than is the truth which most assume doesn't need telling and retelling, so more effort is put into the propaganda. Truth cannot afford to be kept down and quiet when propaganda raises its ugly head, not just because of the propagandists fits and fierce reactions and acccusations of Anti Semitism. We need to get out of this hole that such propaganda has dug for us, and keeping quiet won't do it.

    The propaganda after all has cost the US billions, just look at the costs since the year 2000, yet some say, keep quiet, your disturbing the peace, your making the conversation uncomfortable. But the propaganda gets a pass. LOL !! What a twist on reality brought to us by years of propaganda.


    OH WELL !!! as the advertisement on all topics supporting Palestine says: "SUPPORT PEACE, SUPPORT ISRAEL", or "FIVE WAYS YOU CAN SUPPORT ISRAL", or "ONE IN FOUR ISRAELI'S LIVE IN POVERTY" (what the hell happened to those billions the US sends Israel ? ah !!! its spent by Israel on the OCCUPATION) Or here's another propaganda advertisement, "IS IT OK TO KILL ISRAELI CHILDREN" (the reality is that Israel has kille over 1500 Palestinian Children since 2000, only a tenth of that number of Israeli children were killed (all deaths are terrible), but the intent of this propaganda is to draw attention off those children Israel kills and onto the terrible Palestinians)

    AH BUT DON'T SAY ANYTHING, DON'T MAKE US UNCOMFORTABLE BY TAKING ON THE PROPAGANDA, DON'T EXPOSE THE PROPAGANDISTS, THEY'LL YELL AND WHINE AND MAKE US LOOK BAD. DON'T MAKE WAVES !!!!!


    This reaction is why the propagandists leading the poor jackasses to war and to their death look down on the masses who will believe any lie that is repeatedly told them. Thinking people must take it on everytime it raises its damned head.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2011 12:26 AM GMT
    realifedad said
    tailgater_3 said^^^

    it becomes hateful when the handful of ppl follow each other to each thread, and politicize/pollute it w/ the same arguments/positions they've stated ad naseum.

    shouting at each other adds nothing positive imo. i fear some have simply stopped listening. bitter words...closed minds...closed hearts....




    And the reaction you express, is exactly what happens when fanatic propaganda to cover up the truth enters the picture and is exposed, the person exposing gets pulled into the net by the propaganda tactics which try to make the right stance look at fault for taking on the propaganda.

    But do we just accept the propaganda and just let it be all that is heard ? After all someone, some group is benefitting more from spreading the propaganda than is the truth which most assume doesn't need telling and retelling, so more effort is put into the propaganda. Truth cannot afford to be kept down and quiet when propaganda raises its ugly head, not just because of the propagandists fits and fierce reactions and acccusations of Anti Semitism. We need to get out of this hole that such propaganda has dug for us, and keeping quiet won't do it.

    The propaganda after all has cost the US billions, just look at the costs since the year 2000, yet some say, keep quiet, your disturbing the peace, your making the conversation uncomfortable. But the propaganda gets a pass. LOL !! What a twist on reality brought to us by years of propaganda.


    OH WELL !!! as the advertisement on all topics supporting Palestine says: "SUPPORT PEACE, SUPPORT ISRAEL", or "FIVE WAYS YOU CAN SUPPORT ISRAL", or "ONE IN FOUR ISRAELI'S LIVE IN POVERTY" (what the hell happened to those billions the US sends Israel ? ah !!! its spent by Israel on the OCCUPATION) Or here's another propaganda advertisement, "IS IT OK TO KILL ISRAELI CHILDREN" (the reality is that Israel has kille over 1500 Palestinian Children since 2000, only a tenth of that number of Israeli children were killed (all deaths are terrible), but the intent of this propaganda is to draw attention off those children Israel kills and onto the terrible Palestinians)

    AH BUT DON'T SAY ANYTHING, DON'T MAKE US UNCOMFORTABLE BY TAKING ON THE PROPAGANDA, DON'T EXPOSE THE PROPAGANDISTS, THEY'LL YELL AND WHINE AND MAKE US LOOK BAD. DON'T MAKE WAVES !!!!!


    This reaction is why the propagandists leading the poor jackasses to war and to their death look down on the masses who will believe any lie that is repeatedly told them. Thinking people must take it on everytime it raises its damned head.



    Do you mean something like this?

    Israel's propaganda:
    4t13yp.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2011 3:44 AM GMT
    tailgater_3 saidit becomes hateful when the handful of ppl follow each other to each thread, and politicize/pollute it w/ the same arguments/positions they've stated ad naseum.

    shouting at each other adds nothing positive imo. i fear some have simply stopped listening. bitter words...closed minds...closed hearts....

    Good observation.

    Look closely and you'll also notice that some people address issues, while others avoid them, post diversions, engage in name-calling and seek to cloud the issues with streams of anecdotes used for constant demonization.

    Consider, for example, M3rman's claim that an Israeli soup kitchen used the picture of a crying Palestinian girl. Even if true, so what? As if there are no suffering Israeli children? As if this was done on purpose or changes anything? That they need to reach to such absurdities proves my point.

    Contrast this with real propaganda:

    Pallywood: fake news revealed
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/897708


    Look also how some people reverse the scientific method and invent "facts"/"data" to suit their notions/"model":

    RLD [as quoted by socalfitness]> Your just quoting LIL'AIPAC propaganda about Arafat walking away from the peace offered through olmert Olmert left office before those negotiations were complete, Arafat was indeed accepting of those peace offerings

    How odd that someone already dead for 4 years, was "accepting" of Olmert's peace offering.
    (Why are we constantly discussing Israeli peace plans and their rejection by Arab parties?)

    Let's also not forget that following Arafat's death, support for the Clinton compromise parameters peaked among Palestinian Arabs (if memory serves, it was something like 49% - a plurality). So let's not pretend, despite the needs of some revisionist narratives, that the offer Arafat walked away from was not reasonable (Clinton's guiding principle was: what is Jewish to Israel and what is Arab to Palestine), including a contiguous 94% of the "West Bank" (not "bantustans", another soundbite/slogan used by the Israel/Jew haters to mislead those who don't know better. South African bantustans amounted to a mere 14% of the territory and were not contiguous - nor were they sovereign, independent and internationally recognized as the Palestinian Arab state would have been had Arafat said yes instead of walking out without making a counter-offer [thus the added false narrative of "take it or leave it" - despite Clinton's begging for a counter-offer to present to the Israelis).


    RLD [as quoted by M3rman]> Israel has kille over 1500 Palestinian Children since 2000, only a tenth of that number of Israeli children were killed (all deaths are terrible)

    The caps-challenged propagandist is back at it, despite this having been refuted repeatedly (before I put him on ignore about a year ago). The fact of the matter is that the majority of the 1327 Palestinian Arab minors killed since the start of the intifada (Sep 28th, 2000) were aged 15-17 - considered of fighting age under Islamic law - and engaged in violence at the time of their death. Only some 67 were girls.

    Were Israel randomly killing people/children or "indiscriminately" bombing civilians, we'd expect that 75% - not 10% - of casualties would be women and children aged 14 and under.

    Note also that RLD is as challenged by math as he is by spelling (let alone thinking and logic). How is 1327 churned into "over 1500"? Indeed, why does he continue to spam his propaganda nonsense more than a year after he was called out on it?

    While pretending that all deaths are (equally?) terrible, RLD intentionally overlooks that every Israeli child that was killed was MURDERED in cold blood, often at point-blank range.


    Were someone truly interested in preventing suffering and death, they would advocate for peace.
    The Israel defenders accept the two state solution (one Arab, one Jewish).
    And UNSCR 242, the Oslo Accords and the clinton Compromise parameters.
    Yet the Israel attackers push for a bogus one state "solution".
    They reject or twist 242, consider the Oslo Accords a "dead letter" and oppose the Clinton compromise parameters.

    I think most people on RJ have long ago concluded that they are nothing but war-mongers.
    They oppose the existence of the Jewish state and villify it to rationalize, justify and perpetuate the war to destroy it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2011 7:28 AM GMT
    Ever wonder why people starting to think Israelis are so annoying?

    Caesarea4 is a good example. Propagandist
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2011 9:48 AM GMT
    I'm dissapointed in those that chose to politicize this thread.

    Please remove the arguments forthwith!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2011 5:27 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 said
    tailgater_3 saidit becomes hateful when the handful of ppl follow each other to each thread, and politicize/pollute it w/ the same arguments/positions they've stated ad naseum.

    shouting at each other adds nothing positive imo. i fear some have simply stopped listening. bitter words...closed minds...closed hearts....

    Good observation.

    Look closely and you'll also notice that some people address issues, while others avoid them, post diversions, engage in name-calling and seek to cloud the issues with streams of anecdotes used for constant demonization.

    Consider, for example, M3rman's claim that an Israeli soup kitchen used the picture of a crying Palestinian girl. Even if true, so what? As if there are no suffering Israeli children? As if this was done on purpose or changes anything? That they need to reach to such absurdities proves my point.

    Contrast this with real propaganda:

    Pallywood: fake news revealed
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/897708


    Look also how some people reverse the scientific method and invent "facts"/"data" to suit their notions/"model":

    RLD [as quoted by socalfitness]> Your just quoting LIL'AIPAC propaganda about Arafat walking away from the peace offered through olmert Olmert left office before those negotiations were complete, Arafat was indeed accepting of those peace offerings

    How odd that someone already dead for 4 years, was "accepting" of Olmert's peace offering.
    (Why are we constantly discussing Israeli peace plans and their rejection by Arab parties?)

    Let's also not forget that following Arafat's death, support for the Clinton compromise parameters peaked among Palestinian Arabs (if memory serves, it was something like 49% - a plurality). So let's not pretend, despite the needs of some revisionist narratives, that the offer Arafat walked away from was not reasonable (Clinton's guiding principle was: what is Jewish to Israel and what is Arab to Palestine), including a contiguous 94% of the "West Bank" (not "bantustans", another soundbite/slogan used by the Israel/Jew haters to mislead those who don't know better. South African bantustans amounted to a mere 14% of the territory and were not contiguous - nor were they sovereign, independent and internationally recognized as the Palestinian Arab state would have been had Arafat said yes instead of walking out without making a counter-offer [thus the added false narrative of "take it or leave it" - despite Clinton's begging for a counter-offer to present to the Israelis).


    RLD [as quoted by M3rman]> Israel has kille over 1500 Palestinian Children since 2000, only a tenth of that number of Israeli children were killed (all deaths are terrible)

    The caps-challenged propagandist is back at it, despite this having been refuted repeatedly (before I put him on ignore about a year ago). The fact of the matter is that the majority of the 1327 Palestinian Arab minors killed since the start of the intifada (Sep 28th, 2000) were aged 15-17 - considered of fighting age under Islamic law - and engaged in violence at the time of their death. Only some 67 were girls.

    Were Israel randomly killing people/children or "indiscriminately" bombing civilians, we'd expect that 75% - not 10% - of casualties would be women and children aged 14 and under.

    Note also that RLD is as challenged by math as he is by spelling (let alone thinking and logic). How is 1327 churned into "over 1500"? Indeed, why does he continue to spam his propaganda nonsense more than a year after he was called out on it?

    While pretending that all deaths are (equally?) terrible, RLD intentionally overlooks that every Israeli child that was killed was MURDERED in cold blood, often at point-blank range.


    Were someone truly interested in preventing suffering and death, they would advocate for peace.
    The Israel defenders accept the two state solution (one Arab, one Jewish).
    And UNSCR 242, the Oslo Accords and the clinton Compromise parameters.
    Yet the Israel attackers push for a bogus one state "solution".
    They reject or twist 242, consider the Oslo Accords a "dead letter" and oppose the Clinton compromise parameters.

    I think most people on RJ have long ago concluded that they are nothing but war-mongers.
    They oppose the existence of the Jewish state and villify it to rationalize, justify and perpetuate the war to destroy it.






    LIL'AIPAC your eloquent at lieing with your Propaganda, Those 1500 children were not mostly aged 15 to 17, just because you and your propagand say it does no make it so. Infact it is closer to reality that those children were between 8 and 10, You didn't refute anything but merely stated your propaganda with absolutely no proof whatever.

    Look up the facts on "IF AMERICANS KNEW"


    You keep claiming that your for peace and the two state solution, yet you have went to great lengths to explain how Palestine never existed, therefore they have no homeland and no 'rights' to the West Bank, Therefore Israel's taking Occupied Palestinian Territory is legal and Settlement building is not a problem.

    Your basicly forwarding your Professor Father's Zionist Fanaticism as he wrote that "WHO NEEDS A SECOND PALESTINIAN HOMELAND" where he explains as you do that Palestinians homeland is in Jordon, that the West Bank is part of "Greater Isreal", not the homeland of Palestinians.

    You ignore these facts when you try to make the claim that your for peace and that those of us who expose your propagand lies are the ones who aren't for peace.

    The above puts you in the place of having to have it both ways, for you to keep your propaganda of "greater Israel" includeds the West Bank, and purport that your for the two state solution.


    So respond, are you for the two state solution which will end the settlement taking of Palestine land or are you still saying like your father that the West Bank belongs to "Greater Israel" and that Palestinians homeland is in Jordan?

    Your catch 22 propaganda avoidance of facts gives the lie to your being the one pushing peace. You cannot be for theft of land according to international law yet be for peace. Which is it with you ?




    To the OP, I only wish LIL'AIPAC would cease to interject his propaganda lies into every topic he can, which in turn begs be corrected. Not disputing such lies as his, is why the false propaganda have nearly become believed as the truth. When Propaganda raises its ugly head, those who know the truth of the matter are duty bound to expose the lies for what they are.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2011 6:54 PM GMT
    Don't know which "Hidden Member" posted above, but if anyone thinks he said something that requires my response, please quote it (narrowly).


    M3rman> Ever wonder why people starting to think Israelis are so annoying?
    Caesarea4 is a good example.

    I'm sure no one is surprised that rather than address issues of substance, the personal attacks continue.
    (Note further the confusion of an anecdote - true or not - as data!)

    Let's see. There are some 40 posts in this topic, 2 of which (to that point) were posted by me.
    What may "annoy" RJ's racists is that they were called out and have no other comeback.
    But let's further analyze M3rman's "logic":

    Because what 1 Israeli (allegedly) said, "people" should "think Israelis" - all of them? - "are so annoying"?
    It is precisely such racist/hatist stereotyping that deprives them of the ability to think.

    No wonder many of these same closet cases fault gays who "flaunt" it for homophobia!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2011 8:00 PM GMT
    From "IF AMERICANS KNEW" "Statistics"
    1463 killed since 2000, I earlier rounded to 1500
    "The majority of these Palestinians Children were killed and injured while going about normal daily activities, such as going to school, playing, shopping, or simply being in their homes. Sixty four percent of children killed during the first six months of 2003 died as a result of Israeli Air and ground attacks, or from indescriminate fire from Israeli soldiers."


    Read the article: "ISRAELI OFFICER: I WAS RIGHT TO SHOOT 13 YEAR OLD CHILD


    Also read the article: DON'T SHOOT TILL YOU CAN SEE THEY'RE OVER THE AGE OF 12
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2011 8:47 PM GMT
    mouillepoint saidxnzI1994926.gif


    יצחק בן נחמיה ורוזה.
    זיכרו לברכה. אמן. סלה.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 07, 2011 9:08 AM GMT
    i've deleted all but my original post.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 07, 2011 4:29 PM GMT
    Here's further proof of LiL'AIPAC's Propaganda lies


    Go to ....uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com.... there you'll find a list of Palestinain children killed by Israeli terrorism. see Counterpunch.org

    for a partial list of children killed under the age of 13, they are listed by name and how they died, many were killed by Israeli Defense Forces snipers.


    Quote: "This is a partial list of Children mostly 13 and under of the approximately 1,500 Palestinains minors killed by Israeli forces in the past 11 years, during the same period Palestinians killed about 130 Israeli minors"

    One child is too many.


    This is startling information so be prepared to be saddened by the truth of what the Israeli IDF has done and continues to do.

    The truth is why LIL'AIPAC (C4) and the Israeli Lobby AIPAC are so desparate to cover up the attrocities of murdering children very close to 1500 of them out of 6000 Palestinians killed since 2000.

    READ IT FOR YOURSELF THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO EXPOSE PROPAGANDA LIES FROM ZIONIST FANATICS WHEREVER THEY SHOW UP !!! Doing so helps bring about justice for palestinians.