Internet makes us remember less

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 06, 2011 7:08 PM GMT
    So that's why all those medical students are so dumb nowadays...icon_lol.gif
    http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/11/how-the-web-affects-memoryWegner’s latest study, “Google Effects on Memory: Cognitive Consequences of Having Information at Our Fingertips,” shows that when people have access to search engines, they remember fewer facts and less information because they know they can rely on “search” as a readily available shortcut.

    Wegner, the senior author of the study, believes the new findings show that the Internet has become part of a transactive memory source, a method by which our brains compartmentalize information. First hypothesized by Wegner in 1985, transactive memory exists in many forms, as when a husband relies on his wife to remember a relative’s birthday. “[It is] this whole network of memory where you don’t have to remember everything in the world yourself,” he says. “You just have to remember who knows it.” Now computers and technology as well are becoming virtual extensions of our memory.
  • Bowyn_Aerrow

    Posts: 357

    Nov 06, 2011 7:25 PM GMT
    We are on our way to becoming borg.

    Human memory took a huge hit once we figured out how to draw symbols to make lists. Until that time we had to remember everything.

    It also freed us up and made it possible for us to share more data.

    While this may be seen as a 'bad' thing, the technology also frees us up and allows us to pass on data at a speed that has never before been seen.

    Its a trade off. Its long term consequences are ultimately unknown. I suspect that it will be "good" in the long run.
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    Nov 07, 2011 1:07 AM GMT
    True. But, RJ is an exercise in creative writing and faux reading comprehension.


    I am convinced our computerized/GPS navigation options are making us dumb.

    Visited Vancouver BC yesterday for work instead of my real destination of Burnaby. Forgot to notice the google directions had us take the eastern border crossing for trucks. Verizon Navigator goes tits-up without data roaming.icon_redface.gif

    The US-5 turns into the CA 99 and it doesn't directly intersect with highway 1.... Shit. And, my coworker didn't want to buy a map.
  • no1timehookup...

    Posts: 208

    Nov 07, 2011 1:45 AM GMT
    Hum, could this be one reason we have computers and technology think for us? Spell correcting, cell phones that store numbers, no need to remember them anymore.. Now we have the new generation who rather text to carry on a conversation rather than to on the phone.. So people are starting to become where people have very bad social and communication skills.. But now we have computers that do jobs for us.. Many new night club DJs use a computer and software that does the beat mixing and all they have to do is click on the mouse to start the next song, that's a form of art that's suppose to be created by a individual, not a machine.. Also there was a time you had to know math to run a cash register.. Slowly technology is becoming more wiser, while the human being is becoming more dumber.. There will be a day where we don't need to know anything, everything will be done for us including wiping your own ass. When we feed our brains it wants more and more, when you sit and become lazy you will slowly forget.. Plus in today's world it's a world of short attention spans, and that's a very bad thing...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 07, 2011 2:13 AM GMT
    i remember everything... i just can't access the files.
    but my brain is running on win 3.1 . :
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    Nov 07, 2011 2:15 AM GMT
    Resistance is futile.
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    Nov 07, 2011 2:26 AM GMT
    xassantex saidi remember everything... i just can't access the files.
    but my brain is running on win 3.1 . :

    Don't be so hard on yourself. Surely you have network support, can see better than VGA color resolution in 640x480, and fewer viruses than an Outlook server? B-)

    I have photographic memory. Just don't have any film.icon_rolleyes.gif

    B-)
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    Nov 07, 2011 2:56 AM GMT
    I'm sorry what were we talking about?
  • no1timehookup...

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    Nov 07, 2011 3:14 AM GMT
    Really, does any interesting conversation exist on here? Once again a waist of time replying to a thread..
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    Nov 07, 2011 3:36 AM GMT
    no1timehookups saidReally, does any interesting conversation exist on here? Once again a waist of time replying to a thread..


    Lol, it's kinda tough to talk interestingly to your pic.
    But I agree with what you say, with some exceptions.

    Right now, we're implementing an EMR (electronic medical record) system. It sure helps with saving time (e.g. looking up which drugs are on formulary). Whatever "thinking" it's doing, I'm doing it, because I set up the templates. My memory isn't perfect, so even if I know the stuff, it helps to have the template help me.

    What bugs me, however, is that med students are using the templates (however they get them) without thinking or learning them first. One of them said when I asked him why he did what he did, "Because it's in the protocol." That's not thinking.
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    Nov 07, 2011 3:38 AM GMT
    @not1timehook-up.. you're right.. essentially, technology is making us a whole lot dumber.... it is very obvious when comparing the knowledge of an Amazonian tribesman, with a European farmer, with a a standard modern-day city dweller.. the latter knows very little, because he relies on technology to do AND know everything for him.. whereas the ones with less technology have to do everything themselves...

    A standard tribesman would likely know exactly what to eat and how to cook it from whatever he has available.. most of us are lost in the woods and likely to starve, because without the expertise of others in the marketplace, we have no idea what to do...

    This process of "dumbing down" was recognised even in ancient times by the Greek philosophers, where people like Socrates decried and criticised the education of children in reading, because, as he said, they would "no longer be able to exercise their memory if they know they can look everything up in the books"

    The same can be said of math... my grandparents (from before even typewriters) can calculate most everything in their heads, my younger siblings cant even do a multiplication of tens or hundreds without a machine
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    Nov 07, 2011 3:39 AM GMT
    what did i just read? i forgot (:
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    Nov 07, 2011 3:42 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    no1timehookups saidReally, does any interesting conversation exist on here? Once again a waist of time replying to a thread..


    Lol, it's kinda tough to talk interestingly to your pic.
    But I agree with what you say, with some exceptions.

    Right now, we're implementing an EMR (electronic medical record) system. It sure helps with saving time (e.g. looking up which drugs are on formulary). Whatever "thinking" it's doing, I'm doing it, because I set up the templates. My memory isn't perfect, so even if I know the stuff, it helps to have the template help me.

    What bugs me, however, is that med students are using the templates (however they get them) without thinking or learning them first. One of them said when I asked him why he did what he did, "Because it's in the protocol." That's not thinking.


    I heard these days learning doctors are walking all over the place with iphones and the like, looking everything up on the spot... it does seem like the world is going this direction.. machines doing everything for us.. it IS something to be worried about...

    Just compare an exquisitely handmade and hand-crafted French chocolate bonbon to an industrially produced one in a conveyor belt to know that a machine simply cannot do what a human touch can.... It's comparable to nurses mechanical machines with robotic arms tucking us in, ala the Jetsons.... lack of contact with living beings ruins the quality of some things
  • no1timehookup...

    Posts: 208

    Nov 07, 2011 3:44 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    no1timehookups saidReally, does any interesting conversation exist on here? Once again a waist of time replying to a thread..


    Lol, it's kinda tough to talk interestingly to your pic.
    But I agree with what you say, with some exceptions.


    This is exactly why interesting conversations are a rarity on here.. Seems to be about what he looks like and does he like me or like me not.. It doesn't matter if a person has a pic on here or not, it doesn't take to see what the person looks like to have a decent conversation on here, I'm not here to hookup or date, just to join into some conversations on the forums.. But yes my pic is a bit silly.. interesting reply though..
  • no1timehookup...

    Posts: 208

    Nov 07, 2011 3:49 AM GMT
    GreenHopper said
    q1w2e3 said
    no1timehookups saidReally, does any interesting conversation exist on here? Once again a waist of time replying to a thread..


    Lol, it's kinda tough to talk interestingly to your pic.
    But I agree with what you say, with some exceptions.

    Right now, we're implementing an EMR (electronic medical record) system. It sure helps with saving time (e.g. looking up which drugs are on formulary). Whatever "thinking" it's doing, I'm doing it, because I set up the templates. My memory isn't perfect, so even if I know the stuff, it helps to have the template help me.

    What bugs me, however, is that med students are using the templates (however they get them) without thinking or learning them first. One of them said when I asked him why he did what he did, "Because it's in the protocol." That's not thinking.


    I heard these days learning doctors are walking all over the place with iphones and the like, looking everything up on the spot... it does seem like the world is going this direction.. machines doing everything for us.. it IS something to be worried about...

    Just compare an exquisitely handmade and hand-crafted French chocolate bonbon to an industrially produced one in a conveyor belt to know that a machine simply cannot do what a human touch can.... It's comparable to nurses mechanical machines with robotic arms tucking us in, ala the Jetsons.... lack of contact with living beings ruins the quality of some things



    Interesting, hell we won't even need to get out of our rockers when we are 90 years old, the robot will do it.. We won't even need to learn how to drive, just punch in or tell the car the location and the car will take you there, but if the microchip screws up, oops it's a disaster waiting to happen.. People can take classes online without having to leave their house, and what does that do? absolutely nothing, a question comes up, and they google it to find the answer and, the second minute they've forgot the damn question more less the answer.. We'll be mindless human flesh walking the earth not to far into the future..

    Thats true, if the world were to shut down, no power, no internet, no phones. Many would end up dieing due to the fact they would not be able to survive. I don't think many of us are going to kill to eat.. But we've slowly come to this between now and the stone age, Computers and technology has helped us in a way, but has also caused alot of damage..
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    Nov 07, 2011 6:32 AM GMT
    The problem is healthcare costs need to come down along with possibility of error if Obamacare is going to survive. Americans also need to start redirecting their anger from Bank Of America(just as an example. I hate them too.) to the fast food industry and stop eating themselves to death and expecting us to pay for it.

    Resident doctors are famous for working 36 hour shifts and getting sleep whenever and wherever it can be found. I appreciate having continuity of care. But, people who can do that tend to make terrible dating prospects.

    In the medical field, I'd prefer a doctor have the latest wisdom at his fingertips instead of spending all their free time trying to memorize the latest drug protocols.

    Grr.. Don't get me started on the pharmaceutical industry.

    But, that's just my opinion as an electronics nerd who almost flunked biology in junior high because dissecting a frog seemed wildly pointless and made me demonstrate vomiting.
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    Nov 07, 2011 6:37 AM GMT
    RobertF64 said

    In the medical field, I'd prefer a doctor have the latest wisdom at his fingertips instead of spending all their free time trying to memorize the latest drug protocols.


    I dont see the point here... you mean people should look things up and not memorise anything?
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    Nov 07, 2011 10:29 PM GMT
    GreenHopper said
    RobertF64 said

    In the medical field, I'd prefer a doctor have the latest wisdom at his fingertips instead of spending all their free time trying to memorize the latest drug protocols.


    I dont see the point here... you mean people should look things up and not memorise anything?


    I regret writing that.

    In my work, only my sanity and product delivery schedule is on the line. But, mistakes are expensive. So, I pursue a situation where I recognize and prevent a flaw, design rules and constraints are captured, and it is automatically verified if the toaster comes back for a design change and I'm no longer with the company. If no one remembers why I put that there, I need something that raises a flag and compels a closer look.


    Memorizing something is ideal if it never changes. But, I have to backtrack as I failed to consider a medical professional must be able to look at a drug prescription and recognize something out of normal.

    Drugs come in different strengths. I'm not able to forget the report of a nurse who mistakenly hung a too-strong electrolyte IV for an infant in surgery and the baby died.

    A simple mistake like that shouldn't cause a death and end a career.

    Double checking, experience and memorization enhanced by an electronic safety net, I hope, would have prevented that tragedy. If my life is on the line, I hope enough sleep was had by all involved.

    FWIW. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FSS/is_4_10/ai_n18612217/


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    Nov 07, 2011 10:31 PM GMT
    I knew my memory was going somewhere! D:
  • no1timehookup...

    Posts: 208

    Nov 07, 2011 10:49 PM GMT
    RobertF64 said
    GreenHopper said
    RobertF64 said

    In the medical field, I'd prefer a doctor have the latest wisdom at his fingertips instead of spending all their free time trying to memorize the latest drug protocols.


    I dont see the point here... you mean people should look things up and not memorise anything?


    I regret writing that.

    In my work, only my sanity and product delivery schedule is on the line. So, I pursue a situation where I make a decision, design rules and constraints are captured, and it is automatically verified if the toaster comes back for a design change and I'm no longer with the company. If no one remembers why I put that there, I need something that raises a flag and compels a closer look.


    Memorizing something is ideal if it never changes. But, I have to backtrack as I failed to consider a medical professional must be able to look at a drug prescription and recognize something out of normal.

    Drugs come in different strengths. I'm not able to forget the report of a nurse who mistakenly hung a too-strong electrolyte IV for an infant in surgery and the baby died.

    A simple mistake like that shouldn't cause a death and end a career.

    Double checking, experience and memorization enhanced by an electronic safety net, I hope, would have prevented that tragedy. If my life is on the line, I hope enough sleep was had by all involved.

    FWIW. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FSS/is_4_10/ai_n18612217/




    This is sorta a situation that happened to me back in early 2007.. I was over prescribed Tetracycline for pimples that I was getting due to the fact I was taking a black market substance to build muscle. I was suppose to take 2 pills, and the pharmacy had doubled the dosage somehow, so I was taking 4. On top of that I was taking the herbal substance that said there were no steroids and was all natural. Well lets just say I ended up in the hospital looking like a Hepatitis patient after 2 months. My skin and eyes were as yellow as can be, and my liver was on the verge of shut down. After a few months of meds and scratching my skin bloody, It cleared out of my system, and come to find out, the over prescribed Tetracycline was not the cause nor was the problem.. But that tells you Steroids KILL and will damage your liver..
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    Nov 07, 2011 11:44 PM GMT
    I was gonna post something, but forgot what I was gonna say.
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    Nov 07, 2011 11:52 PM GMT
    Mostly agree, but I think it is hurting our attention span more than it is hurting memory or cognitive skills. In some cases, I believe that we are developing new cognitive skills.

    On one hand, we've become used to assimilating vast bits of mostly unconnected pieces of information. This doesn't necessarily impact memory retention. I think this situation would drive someone from 1960 completely nuts.

    On the other hand most people no longer have the ability or patience to sit down and read a book or coherent text. What I think we are losing, is the ability to synthesize information, abstract logic inductions, and create new ideas.
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    Nov 07, 2011 11:54 PM GMT
    Check out Moonwalking with Einstein by Joshua Foer:
    http://www.amazon.com/Moonwalking-Einstein-Science-Remembering-Everything/dp/159420229X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320709674&sr=8-1

    Excellent book that talks a lot about this same topic, and memory in general.

    I've been really interested in similar articles about the impact of information overload on the brain... i.e. our brains aren't really wired for multitasking, and today's deluge of e-mails, texts, websites, social sites, tweets, etc is actually forcing our brains to shut down because they just can't process it all. Really interesting subject.
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    Nov 08, 2011 12:39 AM GMT
    no1timehookups said
    Thats true, if the world were to shut down, no power, no internet, no phones. Many would end up dieing due to the fact they would not be able to survive. I don't think many of us are going to kill to eat.. But we've slowly come to this between now and the stone age, Computers and technology has helped us in a way, but has also caused alot of damage..


    We get a hint of the chaos every time the hospital has to shut down its electronic records for just an hour or so. Paper flying everywhere, people stop thinking and orders don't get done.
    I marvel how I functioned back 10 years ago with a much more ancient DOS based computer system.
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    Nov 08, 2011 12:51 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    no1timehookups said
    Thats true, if the world were to shut down, no power, no internet, no phones. Many would end up dieing due to the fact they would not be able to survive. I don't think many of us are going to kill to eat.. But we've slowly come to this between now and the stone age, Computers and technology has helped us in a way, but has also caused alot of damage..


    We get a hint of the chaos every time the hospital has to shut down its electronic records for just an hour or so. Paper flying everywhere, people stop thinking and orders don't get done.
    I marvel how I functioned backed 10 years ago with a much more ancient DOS based computer system.


    One reason why I want to do as many rotations as I can in rural and indigenous areas... having to rely on technology as little as possible, and perhaps sometimes even resort to drugs pulled out of the local botanical arsenal....