FORUMS > Football (American) Forum Rules

Jesus God, our local QB, Michael Vick, has been indicted for his part in a dogfighting operation. Says our local daily:

"A federal grand jury on Tuesday indicted Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick for his alleged role in a well-established dogfighting operation in Virginia where breeders fought pit bulls for purses as high as $26,000 and some losing dogs were electrocuted, drowned, hanged or shot to death.

"The National Football League, where Vick is one of the highest-paid players, called the activities alleged in the indictment 'cruel, degrading and illegal.'"

The full story is grotesque:
http://tinyurl.com/33qls9

Why in hell would anyone get involved in such an enterprise?

Maybe it's just a quirky fascination he has.

Oh, probably has something to do with that 'brutality can be hot'.
But seriously for some sick humans have an appetite for the violent and brutal whether real or simulated.

Whoops, looks like I linked to the wrong story. Here is the story on the indictment:

http://tinyurl.com/3bgjub

Thanks for sharing, Dugan.

Man, that's just bad and wrong.

That's badong.

May I suggest not reading the thread, Dugan, if it disturbs you so much.

Okay, guys, settle down.

it makes me sick to my stomach. but since he's an nfl superstar he'll be excused. especially from little sissies like dugan. what a bunch of crock you are girlie boy. i know your type. you got a big mouth but you can't back it up. wish is too classy to say this to you punk, but i ain't.

Um, 40 is the number of posts he written, not his age.

Well, if you have something intelligent and worthwhile to say, then feel free to say it.

If not, keep it to yourself.

i'm 4 years older than you, moron. i call you 'girlie boy' cuz that is what you are. you not only have a big mouth but you're stupid. you got nothing going for you. too bad. i actually feel sorry for you now.

I'm sure you know better than I, Obscenewish, that the need such violent activity speaks to is a deep seated feeling of powerlessness. The violent control/harm of another life makes them feel powerful in turn. Perhaps a version of the same issue is what is affecting Dugan880.

I was going to suggest that Dugan be removed, but at the time I'm posting, it looks like he already has been. Kudos to whoever reported him.

"...and some losing dogs were electrocuted, drowned, hanged or shot to death. The National Football League, where Vick is one of the highest-paid players, called the activities alleged in the indictment 'cruel, degrading and illegal.'"

This is sociopathic behavior. I just got into this thread this morning, and heard about the indictment also only this morning. This is nauseating.

Thank goodness I never had to read the posts of whoever that Dugan guy was...they were all gone by this morning.

The Atlanta Falcons need to take a strong stand, including suspending him* pending his trial, and then releasing him if he's found guilty or pleads no contest on any of he counts. The NFL should suspend him pending the results, and if he pleads or is found guilty or no contest, he should be banned for life from the NFL.

*His pay should go into an escrow account pending the results of the trial. If he's found innocent, he gets the pay. if he is found guilty on any count or pleads no contest, he loses the money.

John

that fucking pisses me off. I'm vegan for one, so that goes unsaid. but i work at petsmart when im home from college and i was working the registers when he bought hundreds of dollars worth of dog stuff for his puppy pitbull. it disgusts me to think he is going to raise it as a fighter.

He should go to jail, but will prob. only get a slap on the wrist. He has helped his little brother out of trouble so many times who should be in jail too. Shows what lots of money can do for you.

The NFL isn't even suspending him so far.

Disturbing beyond words.

well maybe before throwing him in jail we should let the trial proceed?

i'm not defending him but people get accused of all kinds of shit, so maybe we should wait to see when the evidence comes out.

my question is why would someone do that? it's not for money, so he must actually enjoy it. don't people who torture and kill animals usually end up doing crazy shit to other people?

JF is right about waiting for the trial to proceed....guilty til proven, etc. But, hmm, let's all remember that it's too often who has the slickest lawyers that determines just what the law decrees. Right OJ?

So Michael Vick will plead guilty to felony dog fighting conspiracy charges. That's an unexpected twist.

As much as I detest what he was involved in, I do have a glimmer of respect for his owning up to it.

Now we'll see what happens to his career...

"The NFL isn't even suspending him so far."

Because NFL sees him as an income... The almighty power of $$$$$$$...

It is all just lip service... "We do not support his behavior, Bad Boy!" But it stops there...

What is this image we have for professional atheltes as "heros"...? What is so different from otehr entertainment industries like music and movie pop stars..? Only one in a very few makes it, it honors team work, it is competitive, it takes skills... Well, the same can be said about the music and movie industries...

Vick didn't own up to shit. He agreed to plead guilty and accept responsibility only after very much time in consultation with lawyers and image people. The man should have to spend his incarceration (if there is any) in a kennel with a few hungry pitbulls. That this man is being treated with such kid gloves is despicable. Who does he think he is, Paris Hilton?

The NFL can only to continually see him as an income if the public shows support for this guy, meaning buy tickets for the games and watch them on TV...

This is not unlike movie/TV actors and music pop stars behave badly... If their actions actually sell more tabloids and continue to sell more records or get viewers for their shows... Guess what, the networks and the record lable would just do the same: lip service and nothing else...

If the image hurts the income level, then these organizations will drop these "celebrities."

At the end, it has nothing to with ethics. It has everything to do with $$$$$$$$.....

Well, at least he's straight. If he said, "I train dogs to kill each other and if they don't I shoot or hang them. Oh, by the way, I'm gay" the reporters would go, "Ick--you have sex with men?" :(

No doubt part of his deal is to go into rehab/therapy.

Oh, just like Lindsy Lohan, Britney Spears, and Issiac Washington!

The local newspaper here in southeastern Virginia is reporting that he will likely see jail time. (www.pilotonline.com)

Also, from last year's gator bowl performance by his brother, it seems they have a violent streak in the family, that is likely from their upbringing.

(January 2006) www.pilotonline.com - ATLANTA -- Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick believes Virginia Tech overreacted when the school dismissed his brother, Marcus, from the football team after he stomped on an opposing player during the Gator Bowl.

Marcus Vick later claimed the incident was accidental and that he apologized to Louisville's Elvis Dumervil, but the All-American defensive end denied receiving an apology.

Michael Vick, who led Virginia Tech to the 1999 national title game as a redshirt freshman, was at the Gator Bowl and saw his brother step on Dumervil.


Violence begets violence, whether directed at humans or dogs...

It is also the mentality some of these young pro athletes were cultivated..

They are kids, and all the sudden are labeled as "heros" and making absurd amount of $... While other kids pursuing other goals to better the soceity like studying to be a doctor or nurse are left behind in the dust when it comes to materail and recognition rewards...

Their perception of reality is completely distorded, and their view of their worth in society corrupted. They end up with this out of touch sense of entitlement, while the lack of motivation to learn about other aspects of life, human behavior, and history prevents them from being enlightened. Whatever they feel like doing, they do. No consideration of the action itself or the consequences of their actions. They feel no reason to change or evaluate thier ways.

In many ways, they are indeed not that much different from thoose child stars, which many of them became adult criminals...

Again, I really do not understand our cultures obssession with sports celebrities... Why are they in any way "heros"? Why do we have moveis and TV shows like that retarded "Friday Nights" gloryfying football....? What is the difference between them and these young rap stars or young actors of Hollywood...? Is it because this is bascially the juvenile fantasy of straight men...? Instant $, fame, glorification, power, and women..? Why else do they take such personal interest and affiliation with sports teams...?

Very well-said NYC!

While I find the man's behavior disgusting, I fail to see the shock in it: the real obscenity is these kids (most of them are that, psychologically, as are many in the industry) making so much money and receiving so much adulation while the people who really provide a service for society go by disregarded. Yes, Vick getting off on the torture of animals is gross but let's open up the dialogue to the NFL itself and what's really being celebrated in that spectacle. Bread & Circuses anyone?

I agree with Jakal69..

I actually think the bigger culprit is the organization behind the NFL, the record labels,etc...

Kids do not know any better. You throw such absurd amount of $ in their faces, and roll out the red carpet where ever they go, giving them the power to do whatever... They are going to be f^cked up!!

Who makes the majority of $$.... NFL, record lables, agents, you name it...

As much as I don't like Falcons owner Arthur Blank's politics, he's been a pretty straight shooter and has been fairly open about his disappointment with Vick and how Vick directly lied to him in April about his involvement with dog fighting. The paper this morning (ajc.com) was not defensive of him in any way, with one even railing against those that STILL want to excuse him for just making a mistake.
Unfortunately, just 10 minutes ago on my train ride home, I overheard a couple of ladies talking about the conspiracy to get him "cause they couldn't get him on anything else, they got him for hurtin' dogs..."

Sure, in all of society, there are individuals idolized all out of proportion to their importance and contributions to humankind. But it's not just sports celebrities...thrown in actors as well, for example.

That really is a legitimate (but different) thread.

The fact is...whether such celebrity should exist, this particular one has engaged in heinous and reprehensible behavior. Its coldly cynical torture and execution of these poor animals is sociopathic.

I think he should be banned from the NFL for life, and he should get the book thrown at him.

That's separate from whether he SHOULD be a role model, or that sports celebrities are over celebrated in this society (and in Europe, Africa and every place in which people sublimate their own hopes and dreams by idolizing someone with "stature.")

John

I agreed totally. I already pointed out the similarities between thes sports stars and Hollywood celebrities...

And of course this is not just American, far from it. Soccer is just as bad overseas.. People kill eachother when arguing about teams..

I was just pointing out that we often call sports celebrities "HEROS", which we do not do to singers and actors.. I was trying to point out the inappropriateness of the use of such term when applied to sports celebrities... Hero is someone like those 911 rescue workers, Martin LutherKing Jr, etc.. But calling a football player a hero? Give me a break!

Hey, Football players are heroes to many kids. Don't you think you're being a bit judgmental? Kids have looked up to professional athletes forever. Prowess on the playing field is supposed to be a reliable proxy for bravery in life. While it's true that Michael Vick and many pros are hardly heroes, to write off all pro athletes says more about you than about them.

There's nothing wrong with kids making heroes of athletes.

Kids'd be wiser to lionize those that work for the sanitation department. Removing trash far better serves society than molesting pigskin over 100 yards of lawn.

kids need to "look up" to a decent person, not an "athlete". this foul ideal of heroes is wasted on the latter.
sociopathic, no remorse - that's somebody worth knowing?

NNJfitandbi:

"Hey, Football players are heroes to many kids."

For WHAT reasons...? GOOD reasons?

Just because they are heros to kids does not mean they should be or there is a good reason for them to be. If they are heros, then so should anyone from American Idols and Britney Spears...

"Prowess on the playing field is supposed to be a reliable proxy for bravery in life."

How does this translate into "bravery in life"? Please provide discrete, objective, and direct evidence...

What really translates into bravery in TODAY'S life is developing the character of determination, motivation, empathy, and passion to fight and dedicate your work for an universal good cause, not the motivation of mega $ contracts, fast cars, and cheap women at age 22...

"There's nothing wrong with kids making heroes of athletes."

What is so great for kids to idolize other kids who did not dedicate thier lives to a bigger cause and years of hard work in school, kids who have no other passion excpet their own ego, kids who are rewarded for all this by becoming rich and famous for skills SOLEY aimed at generating $ in an entertainment industry??

What is so great for kids to idolize the qaulities of instant gratification and huge egos based on something that will not better our society??

Tell me that is a great role model for kids...

"Prowess on the playing field is supposed to be a reliable proxy for bravery in life."

How many football stars were volunteer WTC rescue workers...? How many everyday civilians, not good in sports, not buff and physically strong, did all they can at all these temporary stands to help others? Ok, you can say they dont have the time.. BUT How many famous football stars even took out their pocket book and donate $ to the recovery efforts?

What charaters do you see with these young football satrs..? Known for donating to cherity or rape, gambling, and now torturing animals?

What is crack/cocaine?

What makes one brace is the dedication one has for his cause, not how much weight you can pench press or how many touch downs you can accomplish...

Someone who is really passionate about a good cause would give up their freedom, or even lives, for it.

Prowess on the playing field has nothing to do with bravery.

Prowess on the playing field is only ego, or who ones who are pre-occupied with it, fanatasy of attaining this ego...

I would like to hear someone with a law degree offer some input. If he pleaded guilty to 8 counts of animal cruelty, for a lesser sentence, what does the state declares manditory jail time for each? I was told by a collegue he may only serve a year and pay a fine. Hopefully his cell mate is an animal lover or Betty White with a bat with nails in it!! Inmates don't take kindly to child abusers or animal abusers. Maybe in his short stay someone might shank him. They got Dahmer, but not OJ...not at all. Johnny can't save Vick, but he has enough money to get off pratically scot-free--WTF?? Write your congressman!! Donate to the ASPCA! Do something. Don't just whine on here about it.

Jamie Foxx apparently thinks Vick wasn't such a bad guy for fighting, torturing, and murdering dogs and apparently thinks super rich black men, "brothers", should be forgiven not know the difference between right and wrong:

LOS ANGELES, Calif. - Access Hollywood’s Shaun Robinson recently sat down with Jamie Foxx for a candid talk about Jamie’s new gig, and even a hot button topic from the world of sports: Michael Vick’s dog fighting charges.

Foxx is busy doing his thing on “The Foxxhole,” his weekly show on Sirius Satellite Radio show. And although an incredible LG Beach House in Malibu provides a spectacular summer backdrop, no subject is off-limits with Jamie, as Robinson found out during her stay as a special guest.

“Is he really going to jail?” Foxx asked about Vick. Yes, he’s going to plea bargain,” Robinson said.

Although Vick has been almost universally condemned since agreeing to plead guilty to dog fighting conspiracy, people should not be so quick to judge the NFL star, Foxx said.

“It’s a cultural thing, I think,” Foxx said. “Most brothers didn’t know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn’t know that was Fed time. So, Mike probably just didn’t read his handbook on what not to do as a black star.”

Although he has a way of lightening even the most sensitive of subjects, Foxx sounded sincere in his belief that the quarterback is not being given a fair shake.

“I know that cruelty to animals is bad, but sometimes people shoot people and kill people and don’t get time,” Foxx said. “I think in this situation, he really didn’t know the extent of it, so I always give him the benefit of the doubt.”


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20414907/

That little exchange not only shows Foxx to be an idiot it also, in my opinion, make him sound a like a a bigot.

this is in response to tjwdraws posting....

I have one word to jamie foxx's comments...WOW...

UNBELIEVEABLE.....but then again, Im not surprised;I knew they would make it into a race issue....

What Michael Vick did was so unbelieveably cruel...of course he should do time for petes sake...plus he was the chief organizer of an illegal gambling ring....also illegal...so what Janie Foxx is saying....he shouldnt have to do time for committing well known illegal activities...but because he is black and because he is an athlete...he should be let go....HA...i dont think so...

He will likely have to pay a huge fine for the cruelty to animals and have to serve jail time for organizing an illegal gambling ring....AND RIGHTLY SO....If a white, asian, latin person did all the same things...Id feel exactly the same way....and for the blacks to say he should be cut some slack because he is black...is in and of itself racist...jsut in a reverse manner...they want special treatment because of their skin color.

I dont care what color he is....he could be purple with green polka dots, he should be thrown in jail...its not an issue of skin color for crying out loud...IM SO FUCKING SICK AND TIRED OF THE AFRICAN AMERICANS playing the race card...and you are right...Jamie Foxx is a bigot as a result of his comments...

ABSOLUTELY CRAZY!!!!!