Mormon bishop calls church’s treatment of LGBTQ people an ‘atrocity’

  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Nov 07, 2011 6:20 PM GMT
    Mormon bishop calls church’s treatment of LGBTQ people an ‘atrocity’


    http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/11/mormon-bishop-calls-churchs-treatment-of-lgbtq-people-an-atrocity/
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    Nov 07, 2011 10:09 PM GMT
    The truth comes out!
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    Nov 07, 2011 10:15 PM GMT
    Meh. I'd rather eat myself fat again than vote for one of them as President.
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    Nov 08, 2011 1:40 AM GMT
    That's nice... but non-Mormons may not be entirely aware that the word "bishop" doesn't mean the same thing in the LDS church as it does in the Catholic, Episcopal or Anglican church.

    A "bishop" typically has authority over a single church... It's equivalent to "random pastor says x at interfaith rally."
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    Nov 08, 2011 2:00 AM GMT
    Larkin_PLR saidThat's nice... but non-Mormons may not be entirely aware that the word "bishop" doesn't mean the same thing in the LDS church as it does in the Catholic, Episcopal or Anglican church.

    A "bishop" typically has authority over a single church... It's equivalent to "random pastor says x at interfaith rally."


    LOL
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    Nov 08, 2011 2:01 AM GMT
    But, if there be one ...

    Give thanks.
  • Cutlass

    Posts: 426

    Nov 08, 2011 11:29 AM GMT
    Yes, Diogenes, there is an honest man in the Mormon Church just as there is one in the Roman Catholic Church--the one who opposed the Minneapolis archbishop's plan to form committees in the Catholic churches to support the referendum which defines marriage as only between a man and a woman. The Catholic priest said that the church was interfering in the lives of people who aren't Catholic and have no connection to the church. Hear! Hear! I just can't understand why the Catholic Church, once it tells the faithful what to believe, sticks its nose into other people's business when we don't belong to their church or have no religion. Another honest Catholic was the priest in Fresno, CA, who told his parishioners to vote No on Proposition 8 in defiance of the church's position. (I heard he was defrocked.)
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    Nov 08, 2011 11:43 AM GMT
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    Nov 08, 2011 12:15 PM GMT
    Larkin_PLR saidThat's nice... but non-Mormons may not be entirely aware that the word "bishop" doesn't mean the same thing in the LDS church as it does in the Catholic, Episcopal or Anglican church.

    A "bishop" typically has authority over a single church... It's equivalent to "random pastor says x at interfaith rally."


    Actually it means the exact same thing, nothing at all.
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    Nov 09, 2011 6:50 PM GMT
    MarriedAdam said


    And, there it is. A segment from the Trey Parker/Matt Stone (guys behind South Park) collaboration "Book of Mormon on Broadway" or whatever...

    that makes me want to visit NYC even more.

    Thanks for sharing that.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Nov 09, 2011 7:06 PM GMT
    RobertF64 saidMeh. I'd rather eat myself fat again than vote for one of them as President.



    Every Mormon I have ever met has been the salt of the earth, full of integrity, extremely giving and committed to their faith. Not a single one have I not had admiration for as a human being. That being said, if I have the chance I will absolutely vote for one for President and be proud to have them lead this country. I would prefer it be Jon Huntsman, but I will gladly vote for Romney
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Nov 09, 2011 7:11 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    RobertF64 saidMeh. I'd rather eat myself fat again than vote for one of them as President.



    Every Mormon I have ever met has been the salt of the earth, full of integrity, extremely giving and committed to their faith. Not a single one have I not had admiration for as a human being.



    I know one, a client, a member of our our men's chorus and a devoted morman (when he was married and lived in Utah). Professional, 62 years old, a dean at a local university.......

    And when he came out in Utah he was absolutely ostracized for being gay.
    He was "sold down the river" by good friends and family. His wife, who later died of cancer, stayed by his side and accepted him as gay and loved him to the end.

    I think Mormans are like anybody... some the "salt of the earth" and some
    absolutely not.... and Steve would be the first to agree.....
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    Nov 12, 2011 2:20 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    RobertF64 saidMeh. I'd rather eat myself fat again than vote for one of them as President.



    Every Mormon I have ever met has been the salt of the earth, full of integrity, extremely giving and committed to their faith. Not a single one have I not had admiration for as a human being. That being said, if I have the chance I will absolutely vote for one for President and be proud to have them lead this country. I would prefer it be Jon Huntsman, but I will gladly vote for Romney


    Apparently, salt of the earth does not include a judge of content of their religious beliefs--historical accuracy for one. The unexamined religious life is not worth living. There could be something unwanted if one doesn't reflect.
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    Nov 12, 2011 2:38 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    RobertF64 saidMeh. I'd rather eat myself fat again than vote for one of them as President.



    Every Mormon I have ever met has been the salt of the earth, full of integrity, extremely giving and committed to their faith. Not a single one have I not had admiration for as a human being.



    I know one, a client, a member of our our men's chorus and a devoted mormon (when he was married and lived in Utah). Professional, 62 years old, a dean at a local university.......

    And when he came out in Utah he was absolutely ostracized for being gay.
    He was "sold down the river" by good friends and family. His wife, who later died of cancer, stayed by his side and accepted him as gay and loved him to the end.

    I think Mormans are like anybody... some the "salt of the earth" and some
    absolutely not.... and Steve would be the first to agree.....



    Thank you Handsome Kansan.

    I studied the historical Jesus for more than seven years. Not one scholar was a Mormon.

    Second, DID YOU SEE THE DOCUMENTARY 8: The Mormon Proposition?

    See THAT, before you talk about voting for one for President.

    Taking kids' college money, the family's money that for years was saved to send kids to college and do what? Give the money to a campaign to stop gay marriage--your child's education and development in the thousands of dollars redirected against gay marriage?

    As soon as I submit this message I'm blocking whoever said they would vote for a Mormon for President.

    I'm sorry but everyone was not put on earth to partner with the opposite sex. Neither was everyone put on earth to add another branch to the family tree. Some people came here to be single or be single until late in life. As SO many kids cannot get out of college debt in four years and so many adults cannot be financially on top (I'll spare you the list of financial needs for middle class financial standards), if two single men want to get together and create a home for survival because the middle class single man and the middle class single woman is under attack--unable to have the creature comforts of heterosexual partners and family tree growers, let these people survive and thrive.

    How victimized was I by snooty breeders: Oh, let assets appreciate to the level the market will bear. Oh, they can say that because they had two household incomes, but the single male or female suffered while the holy-moral couples and breeders (Diogenes, eat your heart out) appreciated assets (like houses) into the most dangerous bubbles.

    Am I supposed to be doing this on a Friday night. No. I'll come back to this thread later.
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    Nov 12, 2011 3:16 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    RobertF64 saidMeh. I'd rather eat myself fat again than vote for one of them as President.

    Every Mormon I have ever met has been the salt of the earth, full of integrity, extremely giving and committed to their faith. Not a single one have I not had admiration for as a human being. That being said, if I have the chance I will absolutely vote for one for President and be proud to have them lead this country. I would prefer it be Jon Huntsman, but I will gladly vote for Romney


    Its a popular religion in California. The Christian faith that I was raised in does not have Bishops or Seminary or consider SLC to be anything but a city in the middle of nowhere. It resembles the Catholic faith. And, like the Islamic faith and all other faiths, there are extremists in their midst.

    Just this morning I saw a Seattle City Bus pass by with four pictures, four people, and "I'm a Mormon" across every picture. Too bad they sacrificed their legitimacy as a faith of integrity and benevolence with Prop 8.

    As a "Log Cabin Republican" but a social libertarian, I consider myself compatible with a guy raised in the Mormon church. But, on past experience, his faith will compel him to be emotionally distant and our relationship would resemble a torrid affair with a Republican Congressman from Alabama, married with four kids. I.E. He'd rather set himself on fire than facebook friend me. God forbid we'd share a meal in public.

    City council? Sure. State Senator? Why not. President of the US?

    Not comfortable with that.
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    Nov 12, 2011 9:27 PM GMT
    He is only a Bishope, once the president speaks, all debate is over. What has the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints said on this topic, because thats what matters, not the view of a Bishope.
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    Nov 12, 2011 9:31 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    RobertF64 saidMeh. I'd rather eat myself fat again than vote for one of them as President.



    Every Mormon I have ever met has been the salt of the earth, full of integrity, extremely giving and committed to their faith. Not a single one have I not had admiration for as a human being.



    I know one, a client, a member of our our men's chorus and a devoted morman (when he was married and lived in Utah). Professional, 62 years old, a dean at a local university.......

    And when he came out in Utah he was absolutely ostracized for being gay.
    He was "sold down the river" by good friends and family. His wife, who later died of cancer, stayed by his side and accepted him as gay and loved him to the end.

    I think Mormans are like anybody... some the "salt of the earth" and some
    absolutely not.... and Steve would be the first to agree.....


    Bisexual men do take wives and hid behind them and the children for self advancement, then when the truth comer out, they ponder why are people so pissed? Bi is not gay; bi is bi. Bi is not straight either; bi is bi. This happens to many people in and out of church.
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    Nov 12, 2011 9:35 PM GMT
    I know of someone who will never ever get the Gay Gold Card; because it's not for bisexuals.
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    Nov 12, 2011 9:41 PM GMT
    MarriedAdam said


    But look at all those bisexual men who claim to be straight, then one day they want to be gay, and have allegedly turned being straight off; bi is neither straight or gay, it is bi; neither or either. but they can and do create the facade that sexuality is a choice, by turning straight off, once they have no need for it anymore. Oh and they will cry but I too have a right to be loved; overlooking they took that same right away from others.

    So some can just turn it off, so it seems; But not us Gold card gays, we are the bona Fide genuine real pooftas's; no impostures.
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    Nov 12, 2011 9:57 PM GMT
    metta8 saidMormon bishop calls church’s treatment of LGBTQ people an ‘atrocity’


    http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/11/mormon-bishop-calls-churchs-treatment-of-lgbtq-people-an-atrocity/


    The Mormon Church is interesting to me. I've met many Mormons, and am out to several I call friends. They are typically younger than 30, so maybe its an age thing, but they have absolutely no problem with my being gay.

    Overall, I think the Mormon Church has really pulled back from politics following Prop 8. They sunk a lot of cash and had a big PR issue with that election, and now simply are focused more on giving a good background for Romney and Huntsman. (And avoid the Kennedy-style assumptions that they'd be taking orders from Utah icon_rolleyes.gif )

    Partly because of the relative age of their church, they've had to adapt and or incorporate different viewpoints far faster than say the Catholic Church. Additionally, the Church has given its blessings to non-discrimination statements in the State of Utah (Salt Lake City's now includes gender identity and sexual orientation, for housing and employment.) This is compared to the Catholic Church's refusal to offer services for the homeless following DC's legalization of same sex marriage.
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    Nov 12, 2011 10:05 PM GMT
    I can testify that my time in the Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints, as an Aussie poofter, was not all bad. In many ways it has helped one be the kind, caring giving person I am in the community today. I was to learn things about self respect, I don't think I would of ever learned in the gay community, so long as I put out all was well; tolerance acceptance is not really a strong point of the gay left either.

    So one has grown to be a better poofter thanks to the Mormons. But then I was never a bisexual, hiding behind a wife, and her skirts, nor the kids, for self advancement in the Church either; if that had of been the case, my experience would of been diffrent. But bi's do make sexuality look like something you can just turn on and off. Straight today gay tomorrow, but in fact they have always been bi; never straight or gay; they just create a facade of being one or the other, at some stage of their lives.
  • 6packabs

    Posts: 216

    Nov 13, 2011 12:22 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    RobertF64 saidMeh. I'd rather eat myself fat again than vote for one of them as President.



    Every Mormon I have ever met has been the salt of the earth, full of integrity, extremely giving and committed to their faith. Not a single one have I not had admiration for as a human being. That being said, if I have the chance I will absolutely vote for one for President and be proud to have them lead this country. I would prefer it be Jon Huntsman, but I will gladly vote for Romney


    Perish the thought that anyone would vote for Romney or Huntsman or any other stooge sellout who violates the US Constitution. Ron Paul is the only guy in the running who has any good merit Constitutionally and philosophically. Romney will tell any crowd what it wants to hear. Huntsman is a pretty sketchy guy, he was my Governor. Ron Paul, however, is the guy the establishment hates and who the media is combined to omit form reporting as he wins major landslide straw polls and post-debate polls. He has garnered more campaign contributions of active US military than all other candidates combined, both Democrats and Republicans.

    Yeah, Vote Ron Paul folks. He's the genuine guy. Bush tripled the size of government, and the "Nobel Piece" prize winner, Obama, now drops "humanitarian bombs" on innocents in Libya and has ballooned warfare and empire abroad, and has ramped up the police state at home---he is running the 3rd term of George W. Bush.

    http://youtu.be/NO24XmP1c5E
  • 6packabs

    Posts: 216

    Nov 13, 2011 12:59 AM GMT
    north_runner said
    metta8 saidMormon bishop calls church’s treatment of LGBTQ people an ‘atrocity’


    http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/11/mormon-bishop-calls-churchs-treatment-of-lgbtq-people-an-atrocity/


    The Mormon Church is interesting to me. I've met many Mormons, and am out to several I call friends. They are typically younger than 30, so maybe its an age thing, but they have absolutely no problem with my being gay.

    Overall, I think the Mormon Church has really pulled back from politics following Prop 8. They sunk a lot of cash and had a big PR issue with that election, and now simply are focused more on giving a good background for Romney and Huntsman. (And avoid the Kennedy-style assumptions that they'd be taking orders from Utah icon_rolleyes.gif )

    Partly because of the relative age of their church, they've had to adapt and or incorporate different viewpoints far faster than say the Catholic Church. Additionally, the Church has given its blessings to non-discrimination statements in the State of Utah (Salt Lake City's now includes gender identity and sexual orientation, for housing and employment.) This is compared to the Catholic Church's refusal to offer services for the homeless following DC's legalization of same sex marriage.


    I had a Mormon bishop who told me he thinks the church will "soften in time" as relating to homosexuality. I was stunned, to say the least. I didn't believe him, though it was somewhat nice to hear of the possibility.

    Prop 8 in California, Church Attempting to Secure the 1st Amendment


    As for the Prop 8 deal, I think the LDS (Mormon) Church got a bad rap. Did the church move forth to have "domestic partnerships" and "civil unions" disbanded? No. Left that alone, which as one of the California Supreme Court justices cited, give gay people just as much right before the law as "marriage" does.

    From the Church's standpoint, the Prop 8 thing has to do with religious freedom and putting into law language the protects them. Remember the 1st Amendment to the Constitution? It begins---and this is rock bottom first thing in the Bill of Rights:

    QUOTE AUTHOR GOES HERE"Congress Shall Make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."


    Congress was forbidden to make laws regarding religion. But was there such a barring on the courts? Well, no, cause there was no reason to spell out a prohibition of lawmaking on the courts by the US Founders, for the courts weren't authorized to make laws. Yet today, courts do so all the time.

    With a Mormon background, I had ancestors murdered, left orphaned, hunted by dogs and federal marshals, houses burned, they were driven out of the boundaries of the United States, then later US Armies (Johnston's Army) marched into the Utah Territory with the intent to destroy the church or have it "comply" with "marriage" as the government wanted to define it.

    Sound Ironic? Sure. But think about it. It's not hypocritical as many would give a knew jerk reaction to say. I think Elton John had it right when on the Prop 8 issue, he said "give them the word marriage" and conceded it didn't change a damn thing for him in terms of his rights as a legal "domestic partner."

    Prop 8 will be overturned in time. The LDS church knows that. And mark my word, when it is overturned there will be lawsuits and court rulings coming against the church that are going to be in vicious violation of the 1st Amendment. The Mormon church will not be left to practice it's religion or marriage as it defines it (and marriage is a religious contract historically, not one by the state), but will be mercilessly persecuted as it was in the late 19th century. Eastern establishment folks were hostile to Mormons for their plural wives, which was only a minority of men who had such families, whereas the moralists back east in D.C. had their mistresses in many cases. All this helps us see what a joke it is to get up on our high horses in condemnation of each other, for we are all tainted, who is there without sin ready to cast forth the first stone, right?

    The answer?


    The truly righteous answer is to get the damned hand of government out of such affairs, get government back into its constitutional straightjacket. It is then churches could be free to do as they pleased without fear of the 1st Amendment needing additional protections in law, such as Prop 8 sought to do for church people not wanting to or believing in marrying gay couples in their temples and churches---a real fear that lawyers warn will be an issue down the road when Prop 8 is overturned.

    Gay churches can marry gay couples. Straight only churches can do as they please, and people can attend either or none. All are left free from government interferance and coercion. Such would be the ideal way, and the Constitutional way.

    That said, I concede today is complicated. Such things are no longer as black and white as they would seem, as there can be a role for the state in looking at the definition of marriage, as there are divorces, custody battles, etc. Yet, leave marriage as it is to the religionists, and give homosexual couples the full rights of the same through domestic partnerships---which is as it now stands, as the California judges acknowledged upon review of the prop 8 case.
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    Nov 13, 2011 1:09 AM GMT
    Larkin_PLR saidThat's nice... but non-Mormons may not be entirely aware that the word "bishop" doesn't mean the same thing in the LDS church as it does in the Catholic, Episcopal or Anglican church.

    A "bishop" typically has authority over a single church... It's equivalent to "random pastor says x at interfaith rally."


    Truth.

    Just as a pair of 19-year old Mormon boys doing their obligatory two years of missionary service are called "Elders".

    Puh-lease.
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    Nov 13, 2011 1:15 AM GMT
    The Church is very clear up front and transparent about homosexuality/ bisexuality. If you are an active member, and you want to also have him, him, and him you need to either turn it off, and be a good Mormon or you need to leave if you can not abide by church rules. You can not blame the church for your own actions. If you had a wife and kids, moved up the church ladder of the priesthood, and it come out that you had been batting for both sides; you may well be excommunicated, or even disfellowshipped; it's their rules of membership.