*NOTICE: This forum is really screwed up, I posted a response and then it disappeared and I lost it so i had to re-type something similar and I posted that and it still disappeared. Luckily I had copied it and reposted it and it still disappeared. Very strange. I'm going to repost it again and hopefully there aren't numerous ones visible to everyone else*
mocktwinkie saidNo I'm not missing the point. I understand what you are saying in theory but it isn't fully reflective of reality. Obviously such jobs are not the most desired, but when people are desperate for a job they will go for it. What makes you think that all "white" people in this country somehow feel that they are "above" these kinds of jobs? There are millions of poor white trash people who are willing to take factory jobs. Besides, what does this have to do with skin color. We are talking about American citizens regardless of race have been demonstrated to take jobs after they are made available and once previously occupied by illegal workers.
I don't care what the "companies" want. Of course the companies are looking for profit and are okay with exploiting individuals to achieve that.
How come when it comes to everything else you're worried about "corporations abusing people" but when it comes to this you don't seem to care?
Your message is basically this: "since corporations want to keep abusing people so that they can pay them less while denying American workers who could be working at these same places for a decent salary, let's keep letting them do it because having a steady stream of illegals coming into the country is more important than getting the American people back to work."
You keep talking about "what corporations want". What EVERYONE wants is something selfish. People would steal from others if they could, that's why we have LAWS that need to be enforced
You ARE missing the point. Who is lobbying to prevent immigration reform? Who is blocking laws that would punish the company for employing undocumented workers?
It's not illegals. It's not Democrats. It's Republicans who are doing - as they always do - the wishes of big business.
Most of us who support immigration reform and a path to citizenship is to prevent corporations from exploiting people because they fear being reported to INS.
And race is important because of the disproportionate representation of people of color in certain sectors (hospitality, government, etc.) that are constantly under attack or under pressure to accept crumbs. And the fact that many undocumented workers are people of color. I don't see a huge push for undocumented Irish workers to be tossed out. Even if your beliefs extend to Europeans and Canadians, which I think they do, most attacks on undocumented workers are riddled with racist smears.
In terms of your world view, I can't really help you. But, then again, I'm the kind of person who when the cashier accidentally gives me incorrect change in my favor, I return it.
With all due respect, you should really know the answer to your question. It is liberals and fundie religious conservatives who are preventing immigration reform (and by immigration reform I'm not talking about amnesty, which is basically just a way of letting the world know that if you break the law, you WILL be rewarded in the end). For some strange reason, liberals feel that if they support measures opposed to cracking down on illegal immigration that they are demonstrating themselves to be "non-racist" (this is all just conjured up in their minds, of course). The fundies are afraid of the hindrance it will cause to their mission of spreading the gospel to the world and reaching out to everyone who is "red or yellow black or white".
However, if you poll conservatives nation wide they are overwhelmingly against illegal immigration and are in favor of cracking down -- so I would definitely re-think an obviously ill-thought out blame on conservatives when you know very well who is stopping an immigration crackdown. The ones preventing this from happening are those who SUPPORT illegal immigration, like you, without delineating any clear reason for it while at the same time blaming corporations as an excuse for it to continue.
I don't know how you manage to keep making this about race. Americans in general don't care what skin color an illegal is, they believe that it is only fair for everyone to go through the same proper process of citizenship. I can't figure out how everything gets twisted into being some kind of racism if it has to do with someone who is non-white? I know people of all colors who are just as fervent as the other about this issue.
Irish and other Europeans are not the "face" of illegal immigration because we are not bordering those countries and therefore the threat in that regard from those countries is minimal. Illegal immigrants of European descent make up only a fraction of the number. In fact, I've never ever met a single person who is european and also an illegal -- only a lawful immigrant. You make me imagine a scenario of us talking during WWII and you wondering why Germans and Japanese are getting the main brunt of suspicion and other people from other countries aren't because "they could be spies too". Illegal immigration from Mexico and other south american countries are the main source. That's just the way it is right now.
And they aren't just undocumented, they are here working ILLEGALLY. If you really cared about stopping this you would support measures that prevent the incentives fueling this problem.