No Country for Young Men (or Young Women)

  • dancedancekj

    Posts: 1761

    Nov 12, 2011 6:31 AM GMT
    Smaller younger working population + older retiring population = Social security, Medicare, socioeconomic and political problems ahead. This is a massive crash that is just waiting to come falling down around our ears.


    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/no-country-for-young-men-or-young-women/248124/

    Screw the young now, pay for it in the future in terms of having a sullen, alienated bloc of people who give a vote of "No Confidence" to the society that has wasted their talents and marginalized them for not marrying, not having children, not buying homes, not consuming. A generation such as the Millennials, which has played by the rules, sought the educations they were indoctrinated were essential to "make it" and found themselves receiving nothing in return save massive debt is righteously ticked off. They made college administrators and professors, textbook manufacturers, loan orignators and banks rich throughout the course of their journeys, and they can't find steady employment in their chosen fields and are doomed to be forever behind the eight ball while witnessing "Benedict Arnold" corporations shift operations and jobs overseas - and people expect them to be supporters of the very same system of neoliberal economics and the regime of "free trade" and the "free market"?
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    Nov 12, 2011 7:57 AM GMT
    dancedancekj saidSmaller younger working population + older retiring population = Social security, Medicare, socioeconomic and political problems ahead. This is a massive crash that is just waiting to come falling down around our ears.


    [url]http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/no-country-for-young-men-or-young-women/248124/
    [/url]

    Screw the young now, pay for it in the future in terms of having a sullen, alienated bloc of people who give a vote of "No Confidence" to the society that has wasted their talents and marginalized them for not marrying, not having children, not buying homes, not consuming. A generation such as the Millennials, which has played by the rules, sought the educations they were indoctrinated were essential to "make it" and found themselves receiving nothing in return save massive debt is righteously ticked off. They made college administrators and professors, textbook manufacturers, loan orignators and banks rich throughout the course of their journeys, and they can't find steady employment in their chosen fields and are doomed to be forever behind the eight ball while witnessing "Benedict Arnold" corporations shift operations and jobs overseas - and people expect them to be supporters of the very same system of neoliberal economics and the regime of "free trade" and the "free market"?


    That last comment wasn't from the article but some comment deep below. The comment however completely gets it wrong.

    Where's this system of neoliberal economics? It's more than just a buzzword and the demagoguery over this is appalling. Who do you suppose is responsible for the massive increased costs of college education? It's mostly Government. Subsidies have allowed education administrations to behave without financial accountability passing on ever increasing costs to students who gladly pay with increasing resources available - and then it still is largely the rich and middle class who even bother going. And let's face it there are a ton of students who have debts for degrees that are largely useless when it comes to making a living - but these were choices they made and are now paying for them - so to suggest there was indoctrination? Bullshit.

    Free trade and free markets? Free trade and free markets have been responsible for greater wealth and higher standards of living than ever before. This isn't the problem. You think the solution is to close off the borders to trade and immigration? To regulate and to employ people through government? Good luck with that.

    Oh I know, let's hike the minimum wage again because that will make for better jobs... icon_rolleyes.gif
  • dancedancekj

    Posts: 1761

    Nov 12, 2011 8:15 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    dancedancekj saidSmaller younger working population + older retiring population = Social security, Medicare, socioeconomic and political problems ahead. This is a massive crash that is just waiting to come falling down around our ears.


    [url]http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/no-country-for-young-men-or-young-women/248124/
    [/url]

    Screw the young now, pay for it in the future in terms of having a sullen, alienated bloc of people who give a vote of "No Confidence" to the society that has wasted their talents and marginalized them for not marrying, not having children, not buying homes, not consuming. A generation such as the Millennials, which has played by the rules, sought the educations they were indoctrinated were essential to "make it" and found themselves receiving nothing in return save massive debt is righteously ticked off. They made college administrators and professors, textbook manufacturers, loan orignators and banks rich throughout the course of their journeys, and they can't find steady employment in their chosen fields and are doomed to be forever behind the eight ball while witnessing "Benedict Arnold" corporations shift operations and jobs overseas - and people expect them to be supporters of the very same system of neoliberal economics and the regime of "free trade" and the "free market"?


    That last comment wasn't from the article but some comment deep below. The comment however completely gets it wrong.

    Where's this system of neoliberal economics? It's more than just a buzzword and the demagoguery over this is appalling. Who do you suppose is responsible for the massive increased costs of college education? It's mostly Government. Subsidies have allowed education administrations to behave without financial accountability passing on ever increasing costs to students who gladly pay with increasing resources available - and then it still is largely the rich and middle class who even bother going. And let's face it there are a ton of students who have debts for degrees that are largely useless when it comes to making a living - but these were choices they made and are now paying for them - so to suggest there was indoctrination? Bullshit.

    Free trade and free markets? Free trade and free markets have been responsible for greater wealth and higher standards of living than ever before. This isn't the problem. You think the solution is to close off the borders to trade and immigration? To regulate and to employ people through government? Good luck with that.

    Oh I know, let's hike the minimum wage again because that will make for better jobs... icon_rolleyes.gif


    Ignoring the neoliberal economics comment, because I don't necessarily agree with it nor think it relevant. And there may be tons of students who have degrees that are not marketable in this economy, or that were unrealistic in their decisions.

    The indoctrination was the idea that money and success came from working hard and studying hard, earning a good degree, and climbing up the ladder. This is what I was told since I was young by my parents, my guidance counselors, my teachers, the administration, popular media, by every professional I ever met - stay in school, don't do drugs, get into a good college.

    I've done fine. I'm doing better than fine for my generation. But compared to the last generation of my profession, I am getting paid less, have 10x the debt, and am working longer hours than they did. Heck, even compared to the professional who graduated eight years ago in my field, I'm doing pretty abysmally. This is not a good time to be starting in your career in America, and is especially not a good time to be a graduate - saddled with debt, relatively few assets, low amounts of work experience, and a generation ahead of you whose only goal seems to be to fuck over everyone BUT themselves.

    My ire is at the college administrations who line their pockets at the expense of the professors. The professors then line their pockets with the money made through textbook publishers, hiring TA's to actually teach their classes, and generally preoccupied with getting tenure more than doing their job. The banks who made loans to first year students, then in a few years doubled, then tripled the interest rate, until the senior graduating had to take out loans for 6.8% compared to their 1% interest rate freshman year. The corporations and practices and institutions that continue to suck greedily at the teat of society for the baby boomer generation, like some massively bloated leech that drains its victim dry.

    The baby boomer generation will continue to bankrupt and destroy this country not only with its size and age, but also with its unethical business practices, its selfish nature regarding everything from the environment to politics, to the community and city planning, and even popular media and the way we think. I will probably be literally cleaning up the shit of the baby boomer generation as they retire in droves to nursing homes, then die, and leave us to figure out the mess once again, all the while they curse us and call us lazy and ignorant to the very bitter end.
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    Nov 12, 2011 11:38 PM GMT
    dancedancekj said...The baby boomer generation will continue to bankrupt and destroy this country not only with its size and age, but also with its unethical business practices, its selfish nature regarding everything from the environment to politics, to the community and city planning, and even popular media and the way we think. I will probably be literally cleaning up the shit of the baby boomer generation as they retire in droves to nursing homes, then die, and leave us to figure out the mess once again, all the while they curse us and call us lazy and ignorant to the very bitter end.

    And yet you continue to support a party that wants to spend like drunken sailers and hides their role via Fannie and Freddie in the recession and continues to place the blame 100% on others. Maybe you get exactly what you deserve.
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    Nov 12, 2011 11:43 PM GMT
    riddler78 said... And let's face it there are a ton of students who have debts for degrees that are largely useless when it comes to making a living - but these were choices they made and are now paying for them - so to suggest there was indoctrination? Bullshit.
    One of my boyfriends is a college administrator - has been for 17 years. He would disagree with you. icon_wink.gif
  • dancedancekj

    Posts: 1761

    Nov 13, 2011 12:21 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    dancedancekj said...The baby boomer generation will continue to bankrupt and destroy this country not only with its size and age, but also with its unethical business practices, its selfish nature regarding everything from the environment to politics, to the community and city planning, and even popular media and the way we think. I will probably be literally cleaning up the shit of the baby boomer generation as they retire in droves to nursing homes, then die, and leave us to figure out the mess once again, all the while they curse us and call us lazy and ignorant to the very bitter end.

    And yet you continue to support a party that wants to spend like drunken sailers and hides their role via Fannie and Freddie in the recession and continues to place the blame 100% on others. Maybe you get exactly what you deserve.


    And you continue to make my point Grandpa.
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    Nov 13, 2011 12:25 AM GMT
    dancedancekj said
    socalfitness said
    dancedancekj said...The baby boomer generation will continue to bankrupt and destroy this country not only with its size and age, but also with its unethical business practices, its selfish nature regarding everything from the environment to politics, to the community and city planning, and even popular media and the way we think. I will probably be literally cleaning up the shit of the baby boomer generation as they retire in droves to nursing homes, then die, and leave us to figure out the mess once again, all the while they curse us and call us lazy and ignorant to the very bitter end.

    And yet you continue to support a party that wants to spend like drunken sailers and hides their role via Fannie and Freddie in the recession and continues to place the blame 100% on others. Maybe you get exactly what you deserve.

    And you continue to make my point Grandpa.

    When you have to call names, you lose whatever credibility you have, which wasn't much to start with. But fortunately for you, there are more astute guys your age like riddler on both sides of the border who will help your generation despite people like you.
  • dancedancekj

    Posts: 1761

    Nov 13, 2011 12:57 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    dancedancekj said
    socalfitness said
    dancedancekj said...The baby boomer generation will continue to bankrupt and destroy this country not only with its size and age, but also with its unethical business practices, its selfish nature regarding everything from the environment to politics, to the community and city planning, and even popular media and the way we think. I will probably be literally cleaning up the shit of the baby boomer generation as they retire in droves to nursing homes, then die, and leave us to figure out the mess once again, all the while they curse us and call us lazy and ignorant to the very bitter end.

    And yet you continue to support a party that wants to spend like drunken sailers and hides their role via Fannie and Freddie in the recession and continues to place the blame 100% on others. Maybe you get exactly what you deserve.

    And you continue to make my point Grandpa.

    When you have to call names, you lose whatever credibility you have, which wasn't much to start with. But fortunately for you, there are more astute guys your age like riddler on both sides of the border who will help your generation despite people like you.


    You're missing the point, as always. It's definitely not liberal vs. conservative, but that's the only way you view issues and people apparently. I'm helping the problem, as is riddler78 in his own way. You are not.
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    Nov 13, 2011 1:05 AM GMT
    dancedancekj saidYou're missing the point, as always. It's definitely not liberal vs. conservative, but that's the only way you view issues and people apparently. I'm helping the problem, as is riddler78 in his own way. You are not.

    It is clear from this and your other posts that you fundamentally don't understand what "the problem" is, and why your generation is worse off. It boils down to both economics and attitudes. If you think you are actually helping "the problem", it isn't apparent from posts. Here, anyway, you come across as a complainer and a whiner.
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    Nov 13, 2011 1:56 AM GMT
    A sobering possibility (and this one isn't dredged from the comments of anonymity):

    http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/12/what-if-this-is-the-future/

    Ford essentially argues that we have hit an inflection point at which technology destroys jobs faster than it creates them. Kling writes (at length, but it’s worth reading): “The new jobs that emerge may not produce a middle class … gains in well-being that come from productivity improvements [may] accrue to an economic elite … we could be headed into an era of highly unequal economic classes. People at the bottom will have access to food, healthcare, and electronic entertainment, but the rich will live in an exclusive world of exotic homes and extravagant personal services.”

    Which sounds eerily like what we would get if we extrapolated from today, no? While millions of long-term unemployed fight desperately to tread water, technology’s handmaidens — software engineers — are minting money like bailed-out bankers. That Stanford survey mentioned above seems to undercut Peter Thiel’s take that “We’re in a bubble and it’s not the Internet. It’s higher education”

    It’s beginning to look like we might have entered a two-track economy, in which a small minority reaps most of the benefits of technology that destroys more jobs than it creates. As my friend Simon Law says, “First we automated menial jobs, now we’re automating middle-class jobs. Unfortunately, we still demand that people have a job soon after becoming adults. This trend is going to be a big problem…”

    It’s even been suggested that inequality may cause unrest and violence in the Western world. Don’t bet on it. True, inequality has provoked the Occupy movement, and to a lesser extent the Tea Party; but I’ve been around the block a few times, and take it from me, the world is full of nations with a tiny minority of the very rich, a slightly larger well-off elite, a small middle class, and a great majority who are various degrees of poor and struggling. Brazil, China, India and Russia, for instance, to name a famous foursome. There’s nothing unusual or inherently unstable about that kind of inequality. In fact, in most of the world, it’s the norm.

    I still believe technology will be the great equalizer that brings comparable economic opportunities to all regions of the world. But I’m beginning to wonder if that same technology will also ultimately make the rich world as fragmented and unequal as the poor, and turn the majority middle class into a thing of the past.
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    Nov 13, 2011 5:12 AM GMT
    Well down in Oz Generation Y have it bloody good. But they may want it all now, like yesterday. But they don't rule the world, and should start to solve some of the worlds problems while they still bloody young enough too know everything; yet they do little. Children need to learn and know their place; how youth is wasted on the young.
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    Nov 13, 2011 5:42 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    dancedancekj said
    socalfitness said
    dancedancekj said...blah blah blah

    And yet you continue to support a party that wants to spend like drunken sailers and hides their role via Fannie and Freddie in the recession and continues to place the blame 100% on others. Maybe you get exactly what you deserve.


    And you continue to make my point Grandpa.



    What's with the name calling "dance?"

    One could come up with a nickname for you as well - perhaps, "Mr Oily Face."

    33be8ea5deae61d5be5dd1712f9811d7.jpg


    See how counterproductive name calling is?


    SB - You're on the verge of bringing a knife to a gun fight, particularly if you're going to start bashing other people's attractiveness. icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 14, 2011 1:03 AM GMT
    dancedancekj saidSmaller younger working population + older retiring population = Social security, Medicare, socioeconomic and political problems ahead. This is a massive crash that is just waiting to come falling down around our ears.


    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/no-country-for-young-men-or-young-women/248124/

    Screw the young now, pay for it in the future in terms of having a sullen, alienated bloc of people who give a vote of "No Confidence" to the society that has wasted their talents and marginalized them for not marrying, not having children, not buying homes, not consuming. A generation such as the Millennials, which has played by the rules, sought the educations they were indoctrinated were essential to "make it" and found themselves receiving nothing in return save massive debt is righteously ticked off. They made college administrators and professors, textbook manufacturers, loan orignators and banks rich throughout the course of their journeys, and they can't find steady employment in their chosen fields and are doomed to be forever behind the eight ball while witnessing "Benedict Arnold" corporations shift operations and jobs overseas - and people expect them to be supporters of the very same system of neoliberal economics and the regime of "free trade" and the "free market"?


    If people are upset with the living conditions in the United States, the solution would be to move. Go to Cuba. The government provides everything there. Free Housing, free food, free education, free transportation, free medical care and a government job. The Occupy people should move there now and they can have everything instantly.


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    Nov 14, 2011 1:09 AM GMT
    CHRISTOPHER34 said
    dancedancekj saidSmaller younger working population + older retiring population = Social security, Medicare, socioeconomic and political problems ahead. This is a massive crash that is just waiting to come falling down around our ears.


    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/no-country-for-young-men-or-young-women/248124/

    Screw the young now, pay for it in the future in terms of having a sullen, alienated bloc of people who give a vote of "No Confidence" to the society that has wasted their talents and marginalized them for not marrying, not having children, not buying homes, not consuming. A generation such as the Millennials, which has played by the rules, sought the educations they were indoctrinated were essential to "make it" and found themselves receiving nothing in return save massive debt is righteously ticked off. They made college administrators and professors, textbook manufacturers, loan orignators and banks rich throughout the course of their journeys, and they can't find steady employment in their chosen fields and are doomed to be forever behind the eight ball while witnessing "Benedict Arnold" corporations shift operations and jobs overseas - and people expect them to be supporters of the very same system of neoliberal economics and the regime of "free trade" and the "free market"?


    If people are upset with the living conditions in the United States, the solution would be to move. Go to Cuba. The government provides everything there. Free Housing, free food, free education, free transportation, free medical care and a government job. The Occupy people should move there now and they can have everything instantly.




    Or, since we live in a democracy, we can change how our country is run. icon_rolleyes.gif