How much protein do you take in? - is it possible to build muscle without LOTS of protein.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 01, 2008 11:05 AM GMT
    I've been reading that you need 1.5g of protein for each lb of body weight.

    That's one hell of a lot of protein.

    Do you take that much in each day? Is it necessary to do so?

    Thanks!
  • Hunkymonkey

    Posts: 215

    Jun 01, 2008 2:40 PM GMT
    No, it is not a lot of protein. Think about it. Let's say you weigh 150 lb. So, 150 x 1.5 = 225 grams of protein. That's your consumption throughout the day, maybe eating 4 to 6 times a day. So, say you eat 5 times a day, then you need 45 grams of protein per meal. Not much at all, easy to consume. That's like 5 extra large egg whites. Or 2 chicken breasts, or a protein drink with an extra scoop of protein, or a 6 oz can of tuna plus an protein drink. And yes, you need AT LEAST that much if you want to add muscle. Plus carbohydrates for energy. You will need to take in more calories than you burn. Otherwise you will just plateau and wonder why in the hell you aren't growing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 01, 2008 4:03 PM GMT
    It's good to hear that from you Massimouno because you are in good shape, so I figure you must be doing something right ;)

    If you are on a low calorie diet (to lose fat, but trying to keep the protein high to gain muscle), it's more difficult to get that protein though.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 01, 2008 4:21 PM GMT
    Please discuss this with your doctor first.
    Prostate cancer runs in my family and I was advised that a diet high in protein would increase my already staggering risk of developing it.
    A lot of body builders will advise one thing while the medical community will advise the opposite. Think about what your goals are and if the risks outweigh the goal.
    In my case, it doesn't.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/07/AR2006120700845.html

    http://www.cancerproject.org/protective_foods/facts/protein.php
    http://mednews.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/8388.html
    "One of the biggest problems with eating too much protein is that it can create kidney problems. Excessive intakes of protein causes a buildup of ketones which your kidneys then have to work hard to get rid of, often causing dehydration, in the least.

    Researchers at Washington University’s School of Medicine say that high protein diets may be linked with increased cancer risk:

    Overweight people are at higher risk of developing post-menopausal breast cancer, endometrial cancer, colon cancer, kidney cancer and a certain type of esophageal cancer. Now preliminary findings from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis suggest that eating less protein may help protect against certain cancers that are not directly associated with obesity.

    The research, published in the December issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, shows that lean people on a long-term, low-protein, low-calorie diet or participating in regular endurance exercise training have lower levels of plasma growth factors and certain hormones linked to cancer risk."

    "Initial findings from a US study suggest that eating less protein could be a way to protect some people from cancers that are not directly associated with obesity.

    The research is published in the December issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2006, 84, 1456), shows that lean people on a long-term, low-protein, low-calorie diet or participating in regular endurance exercise training have lower levels of plasma growth factors and certain hormones linked to cancer risk. “However, people on a low-protein, low-calorie diet had considerably lower levels of a particular plasma growth factor called IGF-1 than equally lean endurance runners,” says Luigi Fontana of Washington University, “That suggests to us that a diet lower in protein may have a greater protective effect against cancer than endurance exercise, independently of body fat mass.”

    “Our findings show that in normal weight people IGF-1 levels are related to protein intake, independent of body weight and fat mass,” Fontana says. “I believe our findings suggest that protein intake may be very important in regulating cancer risk.”
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 01, 2008 5:46 PM GMT
    Yeah I have the same problem with protein. I have protstatitis a chronic inflammation of the prostate and its is impossible for me to drink protein shakes, or too much protein at all. I have kind of given up on getting a whole bunch of gains like I used to. Because if I dont take care of my diet prostatitis can be so debilitating it can cause ED.......ahhhh! I am only 19 for crying out load! So I rather be lean and horny than really huge and not be able to have sex lol
  • Hunkymonkey

    Posts: 215

    Jun 05, 2008 6:01 AM GMT
    What you other guys say makes sense. If there is a some medical complication, the protein issue needs to be addressed, doctor(s) consulted, and conditions treated. But for the majority of guys into bodybuilding, the extra protein really isn't a problem.

    NS, if you are on a low cal diet, why is getting more protein a problem? The calories you are cutting should be carb calories (especially high-glycemic ones), not protein calories. Moreover, you can also use cardio to lose fat.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 05, 2008 10:44 AM GMT
    yup, I think cardio's the way forward really!

    Interesting thread.
  • bigguysf

    Posts: 329

    Jun 05, 2008 3:52 PM GMT
    It depends on your body type man. I'm one of those types that's always trying to lean out because my body builds muscle and mass TOO easily... no matter how little protein I have in my diet. But I know that is not the case for most on here.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2008 3:44 PM GMT
    Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's any guidelines unfortunately....

    I've been aiming for 1g per 1 lb.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2008 4:13 PM GMT
    hey everyone!


    ok, knowing about the amounts of protein that my body needs, how do i know how much carbs do i have to eat when i have a extremely fast metabolism. My stomach can't take huge portions. is there anyway i can help myself.
  • NYCguy74

    Posts: 311

    Jun 06, 2008 4:43 PM GMT
    I've heard 1.5 per LB of lean body mass.
    so if you're 150 and 15% body fat

    150 * .15 = 22.5 Lbs of fat

    150 - 22.5 = 127.5 Lbs of lean

    127.5 * 1.5 = 192g of protein.

    and you should eat for the weight you want to be, not what you are.


  • NYCguy74

    Posts: 311

    Jun 06, 2008 4:51 PM GMT
    aanyc81 saidhey everyone!


    ok, knowing about the amounts of protein that my body needs, how do i know how much carbs do i have to eat when i have a extremely fast metabolism. My stomach can't take huge portions. is there anyway i can help myself.


    Most things i've seen use protein as the base. so figure out your protein needs. then figure up from there

    so if you go 40-30-30

    so 200g of protein = 800 calories of Protein

    800 is 30% of about 2700 total calories

    so then to break it down

    40% of 2700 = 1080 calories = 270g of carbs (4 cal per g)
    30% of 2700 = 800 calories = 200g of protein (4 cal per g)
    30% of 2700 = 800 calories = 90g of fat (9 cal per g)

    You just need to figure out what works for you.
    as far as meal size, it's better to break it up into 5 or 6 smaller meals anyway. instead of 3 monster meals.

    you could always do what the competitive eaters do and drink massive ammounts of water, to stretch your stomachicon_biggrin.gif. kidding
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 06, 2008 5:41 PM GMT
    It varies between Friday/Saturday nights and any other day of the week...........icon_surprised.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif


    I couldn't resist that one.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 09, 2008 2:40 AM GMT
    I am in a tough spot with this question. I am in a position where I am trying to lose weight but also gain muscle. It is working . . . slowly. I think the muscle is coming on faster than the fat weight is coming off. It is right around my middle too, which I guess is typical. I know based on the workload I give my abs that I have a nice set under there, but I CANNOT get trimmed down enough to see them - maybe a hint, but not enough to just see them clearly. I am about two months into my current routine of 4 times weekly at the gym, an hour cardio and an hour weights each time. Should I tweak the routine? Also, although I am keeping an eye towards eating more protein, I am not really calculating what time in comparison to the workout the consumption occurs. My workouts run around 5 - 7 PM. Any suggestions?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 09, 2008 11:59 PM GMT
    I'm not an expert on this (hence starting the thread) but from what the lads with the good bods say... high protein is essential.

    I would say I do appreciate the posts from those with health concerns as well though, it's something I'm thinking over.

    The trouble is although everyone agrees you need high protein, there's no agreement on how high.

    I am currently aiming for 1g of protein for 1 lb of LEAN body weight. You have to guess what your bodyweight would be without the fat!!!!

    Some people thinks that's too low... but for me, it's the most I can do and still have a relatively normal diet.

    Good luck!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 10, 2008 12:19 AM GMT
    [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/health/nutrition/05Best.html?em&ex=1213156800&en=190b1ed8971cf7e7&ei=5087%0A[/url]

    Here's an interesting article on this subject. I guess I would depend on you personal goals.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 10, 2008 2:12 AM GMT
    I read some pretty wise words somewhere. The formula they suggested was:

    1-Weigh yourself in the morning on an empty stomach
    2-get your bodyfat measured by caliper tests (by a trainer)
    3-Now calculate your lean body weight. If you're 15% fat, then lean body weight is 85% of your total weight.
    4-Multiply this number with 1.14 to get the grams of protein you need to consume to maintain your current lean muscle mass.
    5-To gain lean muscle mass you may have to crank this number up to 1.5 but there's no exact number that works for everyone you need to test the waters and figure it out.

    Check this url out for the full article:http://www.criticalbench.com/protein-calculator.htm

    I think it makes perfect sense.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 10, 2008 12:40 PM GMT
    Thanks guys... makes sense about deducting your body fat percentage from your weight. In fact I'm slightly embarrassed it took me so long to click on to that one ;)

    About the New York Times Article... that's very interesting, thanks. I know a lot of the fitness industry 'science' is speculative.

    That said is does seem that guys who look good take in a lot of protein.

    In the words of Woody Allen, 'who do you believe? Me? Or the evidence of your own eyes?'

    The supplements industry does seem to be a fantastic con though...


    I've read some stuff about drinking milk (protein and carbs) after working out to help lose fat and gain muscle...

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/79235.php
  • iGator

    Posts: 150

    Jun 10, 2008 1:31 PM GMT
    I too have issues with protein...I was taken to the hospital because of a bad gallbladder (not stones). My doc told me that I need to lay off the extra protein.

    That was four months ago and he just let me get back into the gym. I'm not taking the protein shakes anymore, so I'm going to be interested in how much I lean out this time around as opposed to before when I was just a bit larger.

    Mike
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 01, 2008 12:23 PM GMT
    When I was in grad school for exercise physiology in the late 90's I distinctly remember a journal review article that had a look at all the protien studies. The conclusion was a 'safe' range for protien intake for muscle building:

    1.4-2.4 grams of protien per kilogram body weight

    However, it's not only about how much you take in, but when you eat it. If you're serious about answers, look for recent review articles in the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) journal. There you'll find the latest information that has been tested and peer reviewed.