Gay men who don't like gay culture

  • jackthejock

    Posts: 395

    Nov 14, 2011 8:02 AM GMT


    Am I the only one who gets upset or just annoyed at how many guys online make a point of saying that don't like gay culture? Or that they don't like guys that are "too gay"? Or that they hate gay clubs?

    I've been trying to make some new friends since I moved about 6 months ago form across the country and that's an issue that seems to keep coming up. It's weird because I have straight male friends that are more comfortable with gay culture than a lot of the gay guys I talk to. And I'm not talking about some crunchy granola, liberal artist type guys either. My old neighbor was a rugby player and he used to go to the Pride festival with me every year, or my college roommate who joined the army used to like to go to the gay bars when he was on leave because the drinks were cheap and strong.

    Now I've lived in LA for 6 months and every guy I talk to online makes a point of saying how much he hates Weho...I don't really get it. I've been to a few bars there some are my scene some aren't but I don't really understand why another gay guy would be so against it as a whole.

    thoughts?
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    Nov 14, 2011 8:17 AM GMT
    The issue with gay men who don't like gay culture:
    They've probably heard their whole life how gay culture is bad/wrong, so they're just repeating what they've heard a million times. They don't know any better. You might not be able to change their minds. Just smile politely and pity the poor things.

    About the guys you're meeting online. I'm not surprised. The guys who like WeHo don't need to find other guys online as much as the guys who won't go out to WeHo.
    Also, WeHo isn't all that much fun anymore. There are plenty of gay, gay-inclusive, or gay-friendly places to go in the LA area, where one doesn't NEED to go to WeHo.
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    Nov 14, 2011 8:24 AM GMT
    jackthejock said

    Am I the only one who gets upset or just annoyed at how many guys online make a point of saying that don't like gay culture? Or that they don't like guys that are "too gay"? Or that they hate gay clubs?


    Many gays under 35 don't like gay culture. Many gays under 25 don't even know what gay culture is because they don't need it.
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    Nov 14, 2011 8:25 AM GMT
    Ermine saidThey've probably heard their whole life how gay culture is bad/wrong, so they're just repeating what they've heard a million times.


    I can describe to you COUNTLESS times in COUNTLESS cities that I've walked into COUNTLESS bars playing the same crappy music Gen X thinks gays listen to whilst prying myself not to barf all over COUNTLESS bars full of women trapped inside men's bodies. I don't need society to tell me that "gay culture" is pure crap. Not only pure crap, but a dying sub-genre of paranoid overly-PC rejects. The only good part of "gay culture" are the "ugly" people who probably work in LGBT youth organizations or health clinics.
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    Nov 14, 2011 8:29 AM GMT
    JakeBenson said
    Ermine saidThey've probably heard their whole life how gay culture is bad/wrong, so they're just repeating what they've heard a million times.


    I can describe to you COUNTLESS times in COUNTLESS cities that I've walked into COUNTLESS bars playing the same crappy music Gen X thinks gays listen to whilst prying myself not to barf all over COUNTLESS bars full of women trapped inside men's bodies. I don't need society to tell me that "gay culture" is pure crap. Not only pure crap, but a dying sub-genre of paranoid overly-PC rejects. The only good part of "gay culture" are the "ugly" people who probably work in LGBT youth organizations or health clinics.



    Jesus. Bitter, much?
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    Nov 14, 2011 8:32 AM GMT
    jackthejock saidNow I've lived in LA for 6 months and every guy I talk to online makes a point of saying how much he hates Weho...I don't really get it. I've been to a few bars there some are my scene some aren't but I don't really understand why another gay guy would be so against it as a whole.

    thoughts?


    Everyone hates Weho because that is the gay epicenter and they find themselves getting sucked into it because it is the only place that makes them feel normal. In other words, they can be who they are without thinking for one second "oh shit will I get a negative reaction if I hit on a guy?" The problem is it's a small gay epicenter. So everyone sleeps around, and combined with diseases being transferred, cognitive dissonance arises as guys want to sleep around but don't want to catch diseases. This is true in general, but it's very concentrated in West Hollywood and Weho adjacent.
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    Nov 14, 2011 8:33 AM GMT
    purelife01 said
    JakeBenson said
    Ermine saidThey've probably heard their whole life how gay culture is bad/wrong, so they're just repeating what they've heard a million times.


    I can describe to you COUNTLESS times in COUNTLESS cities that I've walked into COUNTLESS bars playing the same crappy music Gen X thinks gays listen to whilst prying myself not to barf all over COUNTLESS bars full of women trapped inside men's bodies. I don't need society to tell me that "gay culture" is pure crap. Not only pure crap, but a dying sub-genre of paranoid overly-PC rejects. The only good part of "gay culture" are the "ugly" people who probably work in LGBT youth organizations or health clinics.



    Jesus. Bitter, much?


    I'm sure Jesus is pretty bitter. But I'm just annoyed by your response.
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    Nov 14, 2011 9:16 AM GMT
    JakeBenson said
    Ermine saidThey've probably heard their whole life how gay culture is bad/wrong, so they're just repeating what they've heard a million times.


    I can describe to you COUNTLESS times in COUNTLESS cities that I've walked into COUNTLESS bars playing the same crappy music Gen X thinks gays listen to whilst prying myself not to barf all over COUNTLESS bars full of women trapped inside men's bodies. I don't need society to tell me that "gay culture" is pure crap. Not only pure crap, but a dying sub-genre of paranoid overly-PC rejects. The only good part of "gay culture" are the "ugly" people who probably work in LGBT youth organizations or health clinics.


    Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

    People who whine about gay culture are annoying, like all whiners. Don't like it? Don't participate. But please spare the rest of us your screeching and whining.
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    Nov 14, 2011 10:26 AM GMT
    Well I know at least for me, I don't go to gay bars or clubs not because it's 'too gay' but simply because the whole bars and clubs aren't things that interest me. Not for any particular reason except that I just don't think of them when I feel like going out somewhere.
    I don't have anything against people who do like and enjoy that scene, it's something that depends on the person. I prefer dining out, movies, dvd sessions, chilling out and being random with friends wherever we go, watching gigs, etc. Though mostly because my friends are musicians, I guess their lifestyle rubbed off on me.

    People will always like something and not like something else, and I do understand your frustration at the whole gay people not liking 'gay' culture but it's something similar to stereotypes.
    They exist because some people do fit them, but just as much people also don't fit them so you just have to be cool with people being different. Yes it sucks a little that it might come across a little prejudice based, and with that I'm not sure how one would go about trying to open someone's perspective.

    Anyway I guess I'm trying to say that I think i get what you're saying, but what could one do? Mindsets are difficult to break and most gay people are stubborn (lol I guess I'm also guilty of a little prejudice in some kind of form I think) so what would be the effective thing to do?
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    Nov 14, 2011 12:09 PM GMT
    I don't like the main gay culture either because to me it sounds like sectarianism and it fills up stereotypes I don't recognize myself in.
    But I have to admit it's more practical to have gay bars to meet other guys like you.
    I guess it's not the same in France and in the United States, I wonder where it's best ah ah
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    Nov 14, 2011 12:11 PM GMT
    I love the gay culture .. but not everything in it ..
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    Nov 14, 2011 12:30 PM GMT
    You know I'm kind of with Jake on this. I mean okay yes.. I am 28 and I've been going to gay clubs since I was 16. My take on it is this. It seems to me that the reason why people say hate gay culture is because they see the negative of it or have been vicitm to the negative either by choice or another. Let me explain. And I am sure this happens in the straight world but I could be wrong. Seems to me that one gay guys come of age when they can go clubbing and embrace themselves as gay men become kindof like teenagers all over again. Its like the only think they know what to do is to be amazed by the queens and hot guys. It's no longer that they get wet dreams of the guy in algebra but rather now its like holy shit... Im dancing with a hottie and have a place to go to for a fuck if I want to (lets just say they do). it begins at the club, they begin to observe the culture and ways of gay life (according to what's observed). they see how it goes and fall into it. Its going out all the time and basicly they become good at being gay and forget about all other things of life. Basicly its screwing up of priorities. Ive seen countless friends of mine be sucked into this cycle as they care coming to terms with themselves and while they are in the process of coming out. i think they try to find something they identify with so they won't feel so alone and hence where gay sub-cultures tend to begin to play which for the most part seems to role around sex fetishes and what not.. you guys know what Im talking about. I tend to be one of the guys that gets along with everyone that never really can lay claim to any one "sub-culture" that defines me... I'm just me. lol. Of my friends, what I've observed in them is that they become jaded and bitter feeling like "Oh my life is fucked! I hate gay culture and wish I was straight! Gay's have no respect! Always trying to steal your man, blase blase.." But I find it funny that they resort to going to straight clubs but do the exact trifflin shit they were bitching about. It's kind of funny in my eyes actually. I love how people are always trying to get me to fit in to a genre of sub-culture but I mean I just like being me and getting along with everyone... I thought that was the point of being gay... to taste the rainbow? Meh.. bahd joke its late and I havent slept. either way... just one guy's humble opinion on the matter. icon_wink.gif
  • bad_wolf

    Posts: 1002

    Nov 14, 2011 12:39 PM GMT
    Also depends on your definition of the gay culture and what that encompasses, I have to admit I am no huge fan. If I go to a gay club it will probably be Wonky in Bristol, free of pop and mind numbing trance, the catty skinny gays wearing hot pants and shoes so plastic fake and unreal. Rock and indie music with normal looking people.

    Cardiff and London gay pride was a display of our sodomistic horrors on sight for every homophobe to hate. We might as well have been inviting the Daily Mail to open fire on us.

    For me, the thing about being a gay man is that I want a MAN, not an effeminate freak with its claws out looking down at their nose at you because the way you dress bares no resemblance to GaGa. I personally don't have a blanket hatred, but you can't like everything either.
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    Nov 14, 2011 12:44 PM GMT
    BRoss saidWell I know at least for me, I don't go to gay bars or clubs not because it's 'too gay' but simply because the whole bars and clubs aren't things that interest me. Not for any particular reason except that I just don't think of them when I feel like going out somewhere.
    I don't have anything against people who do like and enjoy that scene, it's something that depends on the person. I prefer dining out, movies, dvd sessions, chilling out and being random with friends wherever we go, watching gigs, etc. Though mostly because my friends are musicians, I guess their lifestyle rubbed off on me.

    People will always like something and not like something else, and I do understand your frustration at the whole gay people not liking 'gay' culture but it's something similar to stereotypes.
    They exist because some people do fit them, but just as much people also don't fit them so you just have to be cool with people being different. Yes it sucks a little that it might come across a little prejudice based, and with that I'm not sure how one would go about trying to open someone's perspective.

    Anyway I guess I'm trying to say that I think i get what you're saying, but what could one do? Mindsets are difficult to break and most gay people are stubborn (lol I guess I'm also guilty of a little prejudice in some kind of form I think) so what would be the effective thing to do?

    Agree. For many, their sexual orientation is only one part of their lives and doesn't define the music they like, if they like going to bars or which bars they want to go to, and which people they want to hang around with.
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    Nov 14, 2011 1:03 PM GMT
    I sort of have a Laissez Faire approach to gay culture. I don't need to go to the sleazy gay bars to have a good time, and I don't need a new hook up every weekend either. There are parts of the culture that are great, but I personally don't indulge in, but then again there are parts that I do. No one has a right to judge someone for being/not being a part of it.
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    Nov 14, 2011 1:20 PM GMT
    I don't completely reject "gay culture" but I will usually distance myself, not only because my personality isn't really the kind to participate, but there is a great deal to object to... at least for someone my age.

    Gay Culture promotes a very narrow and very limiting idea of gayness, because it promotes a totalizing idea of what it means to be Gay. Not just a sexual orientation, but a group identity with all the allies and enemies that implies, a culture full of shibboleths and pariahs, a political paradigm with dogmas and anathemas, a social history full of sainted heroes and memorials, even a language. In the West, to be Gay is to feel compelled by this assemblage of what it means to be "gay" and pulled out of one box and into another... To leave the performance of Straight behind and begin the performance of Gay. All to signal group belonging.

    All the stereotypes about gay guys are true. Let's be real: stereotypes are always true. But they're not true because those are natural behaviors that arise from our genetics. They're learned behaviors to signal group identity. The Gay Community reinforces and reproduces stereotypical behavior: not just silly markers of gayness like fashion or the lisp or "hey gurrl" shit, but also seriously destructive patterns of behavior and expression. Gay guys object that stereotypes exit, but those are learned behaviors and the culture is recreating those stereotypes.

    More than just that, though, for me I think Gay Culture promotes an incoherent morality that I can't really subscribe to.
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    Nov 14, 2011 1:27 PM GMT
    Gay culture?

    Shakespeare comes to mind, Musicals and Operas, poems and books, fashion and design, music and dance

    Is there such a thing as straight culture????
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    Nov 14, 2011 1:38 PM GMT
    GreenHopper saidGay culture?

    Shakespeare comes to mind, Musicals and Operas, poems and books, fashion and design, music and dance

    Is there such a thing as straight culture????


    I thinkt he above is just culture in general... I know straight guys that can sing Evita better than I can and one does it while banging his girlfriend.... gave me a whole new view of "High Flying Adored"... icon_neutral.gif
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    Nov 14, 2011 1:44 PM GMT
    Ryan_Andrew said
    GreenHopper saidGay culture?

    Shakespeare comes to mind, Musicals and Operas, poems and books, fashion and design, music and dance

    Is there such a thing as straight culture????


    I thinkt he above is just culture in general... I know straight guys that can sing Evita better than I can and one does it while banging his girlfriend.... gave me a whole new view of "High Flying Adored"... icon_neutral.gif


    really? who do you think writes all the above stuff??
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    Nov 14, 2011 1:46 PM GMT
    GreenHopper saidGay culture?

    Shakespeare comes to mind, Musicals and Operas, poems and books, fashion and design, music and dance

    Is there such a thing as straight culture????


    Straight isn't a political identity: Gay is.

    Because straights are the vast majority, they divide themselves along different lines than that.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Nov 14, 2011 1:48 PM GMT
    I don't think it's fair to call it gay culture any more. Perhaps it should be called the Peter Pan culture. The reason I say this is because in my unit and the location where I'm stationed, there are shit tons of grown men, and grown women for the matter, who are of whatever sexual orientation that act like they're still in junior high school or high school. These people are catty, gossipy, melodramatic, foolish, stereotypes of all stereotypes and cannot act like a functioning adult in society. Just yesterday I saw a 30-something year old woman with two teenage kids. Guess who was the one and only goth? YUP! GROW THE F**** UP AMERICANS!
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    Nov 14, 2011 1:49 PM GMT
    Larkin_PLR said
    GreenHopper saidGay culture?

    Shakespeare comes to mind, Musicals and Operas, poems and books, fashion and design, music and dance

    Is there such a thing as straight culture????


    Straight isn't a political identity: Gay is.

    Because straights are the vast majority, they divide themselves along different lines than that.


    Culture is not a political identity.. the above is culture
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    Nov 14, 2011 1:50 PM GMT
    JakeBenson said
    Ermine saidThey've probably heard their whole life how gay culture is bad/wrong, so they're just repeating what they've heard a million times.


    I can describe to you COUNTLESS times in COUNTLESS cities that I've walked into COUNTLESS bars playing the same crappy music Gen X thinks gays listen to whilst prying myself not to barf all over COUNTLESS bars full of women trapped inside men's bodies. I don't need society to tell me that "gay culture" is pure crap. Not only pure crap, but a dying sub-genre of paranoid overly-PC rejects. The only good part of "gay culture" are the "ugly" people who probably work in LGBT youth organizations or health clinics.


    Great, now you're calling me ugly to boot lol
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    Nov 14, 2011 1:54 PM GMT
    GreenHopper said
    Larkin_PLR said

    Straight isn't a political identity: Gay is.

    Because straights are the vast majority, they divide themselves along different lines than that.


    Culture is not a political identity.. the above is culture


    Culture most definitely is a political identity. Gay is a political group. Black is a political group. Evangelical is a political group. Jewish and Southern and Latino and Progressive are all political groups. And there are cultural markers for group belonging in each of those.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Nov 14, 2011 1:57 PM GMT
    Larkin_PLR said
    GreenHopper said
    Larkin_PLR said

    Straight isn't a political identity: Gay is.

    Because straights are the vast majority, they divide themselves along different lines than that.


    Culture is not a political identity.. the above is culture


    Culture most definitely is a political identity. Gay is a political group. Black is a political group. Evangelical is a political group. Jewish and Southern and Latino and Progressive are all political groups. And there are cultural markers for group belonging in each of those.


    Culture is most definitely not exclusively political. I'm Cajun, and it's our food, music and history that defines our culture, not politics.