Recently come across this article about gay history in China,very interesting

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    Jun 02, 2008 12:39 AM GMT
    http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/china.html

    Chinese Version here:[some of content slightly different than the English Version]

    http://www.aibai.cn/info/open.php?id=18225


    Highly recommend everybody interested in it to check it out.
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    Jun 02, 2008 12:41 AM GMT
    btw,the chinese version inclues some pictures while the english version is without.
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    Jun 02, 2008 2:21 AM GMT
    Thank you for providing this wonderful posting.

    It is very interesting to read about a civilization without its basis in Christianity and its attitude toward homosexuality.

    The pictures in the chinese version were interesting. ...tee hee hee ...up the butt chinese style. I cant imagine how people functioned with all those robes on.

    Cute phrases for a gay man and gay love: "shared peach," and "the passion of the cut sleeve."

    I am just sorry that there wasnt more about the common man's perception of gayness. But History records the life of the elite, more that that of the common man.
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    Jun 02, 2008 12:42 PM GMT
    There is no printable view... icon_cry.gif
  • Bunjamon

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    Jun 02, 2008 12:48 PM GMT
    I'm surprised how little Westerners know about China's homosexual tradition. It seems that everyone focuses on the queer tradition of ancient Greece, but those Chinese were having crazy gay sex for centuries before the cultural revolution. Look up the short stories by Li Yu, especially A Male Mencius' Mother and The House of Gathered Refinements.
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    Jun 02, 2008 1:28 PM GMT
    That's very enlightening. Another source is "The HomoErotic Art Museum", google it. It has art from almost every culture that ever created art. I think they even have cave paintings from gay cromagnons in there.

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    Jun 02, 2008 1:55 PM GMT
    Sedative saidThere is no printable view... icon_cry.gif



    If you can understand Chinese,there is also a pdf version of it for you to downloadicon_wink.gif

    http://download.aibai.cn/nanfeng.pdf
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    Jun 02, 2008 1:57 PM GMT
    terryf said
    If you can understand Chinese,there is also a pdf version of it for you to downloadicon_wink.gif

    http://download.aibai.cn/nanfeng.pdf


    Ach! LOL

    Can't read chinese as well.

    Don't worry though. I saved all 8 pages in html. It'll bedtime reading tonight on my lappy. Thanks icon_smile.gif
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    Jun 02, 2008 3:30 PM GMT
    The documented few were of elites because law can not touch them. though i agree with writer that law did not forbid homosexual act till later period of china, but in general, chinese tend to think all sex (include straight sex) taboo anyway. hence few straight sex were documented either.
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    Jun 02, 2008 3:56 PM GMT
    Bunjamon saidI'm surprised how little Westerners know about China's homosexual tradition. It seems that everyone focuses on the queer tradition of ancient Greece, but those Chinese were having crazy gay sex for centuries before the cultural revolution. Look up the short stories by Li Yu, especially A Male Mencius' Mother and The House of Gathered Refinements.


    Please stop equating anal sex as gay sex.icon_neutral.gif I don't know what the ancient chinese had to do for protection but if it was anal sex disease would have been introduced to the general population explosively. (Edit: Someone mentioned this CHinese history only applies to the elitist sect. But I was on a rant:lolicon_smile.gif

    Back then there were no douches, rare showers, and MOST LIKELY no soap. It couldn't have been anal sex they were having, because if contact with feces wasn't dangerous the black plague wouldn't have been as deadly...

    Also, I apologize to all that my comment may offend.
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    Jun 03, 2008 12:55 AM GMT
    ebl333 saidThe documented few were of elites because law can not touch them. though i agree with writer that law did not forbid homosexual act till later period of china, but in general, chinese tend to think all sex (include straight sex) taboo anyway. hence few straight sex were documented either.

    well that`s not necessarily true.I wish the writer of this article had put in more specific details.From what I have learned,in early stage of Chinese history,sex was consider as a good thing,cause it can help to balance ying and yang,as long as you don`t do it TOO MUCH.The introduction of Buddhism in China changed the whole thing quite a bit,but still,sex wasn`t really consider as a sin or anything like that.In fact,there were quite a few erotic books with drawings,teaching the art of making love[positions,etc.]mostly owned by the rich folks.
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    Jun 03, 2008 1:19 AM GMT
    RyanReBoRn said
    Please stop equating anal sex as gay sex.icon_neutral.gif I don't know what the ancient chinese had to do for protection but if it was anal sex disease would have been introduced to the general population explosively. (Edit: Someone mentioned this CHinese history only applies to the elitist sect. But I was on a rant:lolicon_smile.gif

    Back then there were no douches, rare showers, and MOST LIKELY no soap. It couldn't have been anal sex they were having, because if contact with feces wasn't dangerous the black plague wouldn't have been as deadly...

    Also, I apologize to all that my comment may offend.

    Well in fact,it`s not just ancient Chinese,sex between two males or females was actually quite common in a lot of cultures,like in ancient Greece and several islands.Like in ancient Greece,the relation between two males were consider the greatest love of all,cause the women were second-class citizen and only meant to have babies with.Also on some island cultures before they were affected by the modern world,there were even some routines for the guys to have sex with each other,some of them were oral,some anal,some only masturbation.

    There are quite a few other examples.I`m pretty sure there are a lot of books talking bout this stuff.
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    Jun 03, 2008 1:42 AM GMT
    The problem with homosexuality in the west is christianty.
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    Jun 03, 2008 1:55 AM GMT
    terryf said[quote][cite]ebl333 said[/cite]The documented few were of elites because law can not touch them. though i agree with writer that law did not forbid homosexual act till later period of china, but in general, chinese tend to think all sex (include straight sex) taboo anyway. hence few straight sex were documented either.

    well that`s not necessarily true.I wish the writer of this article had put in more specific details.From what I have learned,in early stage of Chinese history,sex was consider as a good thing,cause it can help to balance ying and yang,as long as you don`t do it TOO MUCH.The introduction of Buddhism in China changed the whole thing quite a bit,but still,sex wasn`t really consider as a sin or anything like that.In fact,there were quite a few erotic books with drawings,teaching the art of making love[positions,etc.]mostly owned by the rich folks.[/quote]


    around the Neolithic period, the main dominating sex of a household is female. men were hopping from house to house, and eventually would settle down and subject to a woman. later marriage was formed, but sexual perversity were rampant. Tang Dynasty was the first to set strict role to male dominance of household, and put a stop to the men hopping around.

    taoism is the first to consider sex as healthy, which you can learn about it in the book Inner Canon of Huangdi. but it's main believe is to be exercised between married couple, and that sect of teaching came about 2000 yrs later then the first founding of taoism. and unlike karma sutra in india, sexual taoism was and is not taught in school, but a more secretive study. the picture porno books was the same, high price aistocrate's reading.
  • Bunjamon

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    Jun 03, 2008 2:10 AM GMT
    RyanReBoRn said
    Please stop equating anal sex as gay sex.icon_neutral.gif I don't know what the ancient chinese had to do for protection but if it was anal sex disease would have been introduced to the general population explosively. (Edit: Someone mentioned this CHinese history only applies to the elitist sect. But I was on a rant:lolicon_smile.gif

    Back then there were no douches, rare showers, and MOST LIKELY no soap. It couldn't have been anal sex they were having, because if contact with feces wasn't dangerous the black plague wouldn't have been as deadly...

    Also, I apologize to all that my comment may offend.


    I'm not sure you read my post correctly; nowhere did I equate gay sex and anal sex. Oral sex was rather common. But I was more specifically talking about the intense emotional (and yes, sexual) connection between two men, which was part of a "sexual life cycle" that many Chinese men were expected to go through before finding a woman, marrying, and continuing the family lineage. Many men who were gay could continue their same-sex relationships as long as they fulfilled their filial duties of having sons.

    Also, I cannot imagine that the Ancient Chinese were not washing their bums on a regular basis, so I doubt anal sex then was more risky in terms of contact with feces than unprotected anal sex is today.
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    Jun 03, 2008 2:51 AM GMT
    Very cool article - I really enjoyed reading it. Thanks for the post!
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    Jun 03, 2008 3:45 AM GMT
    icon_rolleyes.gifyou are welcome.
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    Jun 04, 2008 9:09 AM GMT
    RyanReBoRnPlease stop equating anal sex as gay sex. I don't know what the ancient chinese had to do for protection but if it was anal sex disease would have been introduced to the general population explosively


    Ancient China was not like Ancient Europe. Most Asian cultures have daily baths as part of the hygienic tradition, especially Chinese nobility - a pretty significant thing considering that equivalent European nobility, especially men, were NOT given to daily baths at all. (interestingly though Romans bathed a lot... and we all know about Romans... icon_rolleyes.gif ) In fact, I think as late as the 1800's, western men who used soap were considered effeminate. And though they did not have douches and 'modern' soap they most probably had bath oils or some other stuff (like those used in Byzantine Rome), soapbark and other plants were also widely used (even here in the prehispanic Philippines) which was the source of natural saponin. Ever notice that flowing water is more often than not an important feature in Far Eastern households? Anywho, lastly, the statement that anal sex would cause disease to spread *ahem* "explosively" is plainly paranoiac LOL And probably stems from some er... personal phobia?

    Remember... no HIV? Sexually transmitted diseases would be transmitted via normal intercourse anyway so anal sex wouldn't be different at all from vaginal sex. The only diseases I can see getting transferred by fecal matter would be Hepatitis or Amoebiasis or something, both rare even then due to the difficulty of it getting pandemic proportions by the sparsity of the overall population back then. And gastrointestinal parasites were probably a given fact in ALL ancient cultures anyway.

    Please... why are you so uptight about anal sex so much as to actually ask what the ancient chinese had for protection?!! OMG... LMAO. You might as well ask if Norsemen used wooden condoms when they raped Irish nuns when they went a-viking.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene
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    Jun 04, 2008 12:29 PM GMT
    And that`s some very interesting information,thanxicon_wink.gif