Marriage or Civil Union

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 03, 2008 8:56 AM GMT
    Should Governments be involved with deciding what defines "marriage" at all? Does this interfere with Church and State Separation? Instead to help resolve the so called marriage crisis over high divorce rates should governments just issue Civil Unions?

    Personally I support the government issuing civil unions, while myself and My future prince decide if what we have is a marriage, or the church/synagogue/Religious org we belong to decide wether it is or is not a marriage. This would apply to everybody including the breeders.
  • Koaa2

    Posts: 1556

    Jun 03, 2008 9:46 AM GMT
    In a domestic partnership here. No desire to get married in a church or by a minister, just want all the legal benefits.

    Government should stay out of the marriage business and peoples lives!
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jun 03, 2008 10:56 AM GMT
    I don't care if they want to call it RALPH
    but it needs to have exactly the same legal and economic items as conventional marriage
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    Jun 03, 2008 11:49 AM GMT
    GQjock saidI don't care if they want to call it RALPH
    but it needs to have exactly the same legal and economic items as conventional marriage


    I would protest if they called it Foofoo though.
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    Jun 03, 2008 2:50 PM GMT
    I think it is important to move past terms like marriage and wedding, as I feel they are obstacles in gays getting the right to join in such a way. No matter how you dice it, there will be a backlash in using words that have "moral" connotations. Its just reality. I think we should settle on civil unions or partnerships or whatever you choose, make it universal for all couples straight or gay and then allow everyone to celebrate that expression of love in the way they personally feel fit, without government or religious groups interfering where they have no place. This is a rights issue first.

    I have always had a picture of a wedding in my mind that is a man and a woman. All the pomp and circumstance, the religious meaning and the tradition don't really sit in what is meaningful for me, personally. I think weddings are for men and women, because I grew up never thinking I would be able to get married and so I never dreamed of that day. Therefore, its just not part of my life plan. That may change, but for now...Sorry.

    I would like to have some sort of ceremony, should I ever fall in love again. However, I won't try to recreate a ceremony I feel is designed for straight couples, just in order to assimilate to our current culture and appease people who might not feel comfortable with a gay ceremony. But this is just my personal style and preference. I know religious gay couples who want to have that as part of their special day. I want equal rights and the freedom to join my life with a partner legally and financially. The way I do it is my personal preference.

  • Koaa2

    Posts: 1556

    Jun 03, 2008 3:54 PM GMT
    Weddings are just a big business so that's why the fairy tail crap keeps on going!
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    Jun 03, 2008 4:42 PM GMT
    I'm right there with you DJB...

    A big wedding ceremony to me is more of a straight thing for young couples just starting off. For older adults, the big wedding seems a little silly, ok really silly. It makes me wonder why people are getting married, to celebrate their union, or an excuse to have an over-th-top party where everyone gets drunk and brings gifts. The gift part is a great idea for "close friends" to help the new couple get a great start. But at this point, we all pretty much buy everything we need and have the means to do so.

    Celebrating your union with close friends on the other hand, is a great idea to me. But trying to catagorize it the same as a traditional "straight" marriage seems rediculous to me. Besides, half the family (or more) will show up because they feel obligated (the same reason you invited them) and will roll their eyes the entire time, basically mocking the event. Which would piss me off even more!

    Just my bitter opinion
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    Jun 03, 2008 10:11 PM GMT
    I agree with those that say, "it doesnt matter what they call it just as long as the same LEGAL rights are made available to anyone "joining together."" If they want to use the word "Marriage" or "Civil Union" it doesnt matter to me, just so long as everyone gets the same rights. Then I think it should be up to the couple whether or not they want a big lavish ceremony, or a small little ceremony, or no ceremony at all and just go down to city hall and sign the papers. We live in a "Free" country, so they say, so people should be able to make their own decisions.

    For me personally, if/when I ever find the right guy, I would like a very simple ceremony on the beach. I want to be barefoot. Everyone is invited. Bring a date, don't bring a date. After the ceremony food will be served. No presents please. Just come and have a good time. Hmmmm, maybe...one day...lol
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    Jun 03, 2008 10:14 PM GMT
    i don't care what they end up calling it- that's most people's hang up in any case- and i don't care of organized religion blesses it- they can hang themselves. i just want every single right on the list of hundreds that we're not entitled to. its not a state's right issue- its simply unconstitutional for the national government to set any group of people aside and say 'no, you're different, you don't GET those rights. try and make-do.'
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    Jun 04, 2008 11:09 AM GMT
    France has the right idea on this, the government provides civil protection by civil unions to all couples, straight couples. If they want a marriage, they can get it done by their church.

    This separates Church and state effectively. Our states should adopt it.

  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Jun 04, 2008 3:56 PM GMT
    I personally would be content with state and federally recognized civil union/domestic partnership so long as the legal equalities are there (all those benefits you guys are mentioning).

    But I sense that many gay men and lesbians want "marriage" and no alternative term in order to sense they are truly being treated equally with straight people. (There IS definitely a religious/faith-based connotation to "marriage" which gets all sorts of people all riled up, though!)

    My suggestion: get "marriage" out of government because of its religious connotations, and like marriage licenses and certificates are handled now, issue civil union documentation to everyone (straight or gay) and get the legal rights and benefits.

    However, it seems (if the following chart and info is accurate) that the US is way far away from even having but a very few states "allow" or recognize civil unions or domestic partnerships:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Samesex_marriage_in_USA.svg

    Looks like a very long, long way to go yet, men
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    Jun 04, 2008 4:21 PM GMT
    I'm going to my first "gay wedding" this weekend. Friends of mine are getting married. Since they live in Vermont, it will officially be a Civil Union, but they chose to call it their marriage, so that's what it is.
    The current Speaker of the Vermont House (a Democrat) is running for governor this year. They saw her last weekend while they were shopping, so they went over and introduced themselves, and mentioned that they knew someone that she might know (me). Surprisinglyicon_eek.gif, at least to me, she did know who I was. They also told her they were getting married. They reported back that she smiled, her eyes lit-up, and she congratulated them both on the wedding.
    I hope she wins in November. She would make a great governor.
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    Jun 04, 2008 5:09 PM GMT
    AbFab1 said
    But I sense that many gay men and lesbians want "marriage" and no alternative term in order to sense they are truly being treated equally with straight people. (There IS definitely a religious/faith-based connotation to "marriage" which gets all sorts of people all riled up, though!)


    Its not that they want "marriage" they want recognition and equal rights which are not allowed unless you are "married".

    Marriage predates most religions and is part of many cultures.

    Marriage being sacred is a load of crap as well. Chris Rock said it best "Marriage is Sacred? Not in America. In america where we watch who wants to marry a millionaire, the bachelor and the bachlorette. Michael Jackson got married, how sacred is that shit."

    The thing that really gets me are the dumbasses that claim homosexuality is an abomination that doesnt/shouldnt exist in nature. Yet humans arent the only species to have homosexual tendencies. Every creature ever studied has had homosexual tendencies.

    I really love it when you break them down to the point all they have left is "A man cant love another man the same way as a woman."

  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Jun 04, 2008 6:38 PM GMT
    tonyp,

    I think the concept of marriage evolved from natural and cultural habit -- and everything's based on selecting a mate, reproduction, having children, proliferating, making for support in later life from offspring, ensuring a population to produce for the culture/society, etc., etc.

    I already mentioned that the legal rights and equality is what my (and many others') goal would be - regardless of what term is used for a union of two loving people. I think you've underlined that and included a helpful additional word: "recognition" in the formula.

    "Sacred" - well, that depends on one's religious beliefs. But the concept of equality under secular law is what really counts for me.

    And as someone usually jokes, "why shouldn't gays get married and be as miserable as everyone else?"icon_biggrin.gif

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    Jun 04, 2008 6:40 PM GMT
    GQjock saidI don't care if they want to call it RALPH
    but it needs to have exactly the same legal and economic items as conventional marriage



    HEYYYY be careful!! thats my real first name lol