Center-right wins Spain election - voters vented their rage on the ruling Socialists for the worst economic crisis in generations

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    Nov 20, 2011 10:18 PM GMT
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/20/us-spain-election-idUSTRE7AI10E20111120

    (Reuters) - The opposition People's Party (PP) won a crushing victory in Spain's election on Sunday as voters vented their rage on the ruling Socialists for the worst economic crisis in generations.

    The Socialists conceded a humiliating defeat as official results showed the PP projected to take an absolute majority of 187 seats in the 350-seat lower house, with 78 percent of votes counted.

    Spaniards voted in a grim mood against a background of soaring unemployment, cuts in public spending and a debt crisis that has put them in the front line of the euro zone's fight for survival.

    Further hardship lies ahead, with PP leader Mariano Rajoy committed to bringing in even harsher austerity measures to appease financial markets.

    "We can choose the sauce they will cook us in, but we're still going to be cooked," said civil servant Jose Vasquez, 45, who was among the early voters in the capital Madrid.

    The Socialists under Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero led Spain from boom to bust in seven years in charge of the euro zone's fourth-largest economy.

    Spain is now the fifth euro zone country where the government has fallen victim to the debt crisis, following Ireland, Portugal, Greece and Italy.

    Voters fiercely punished the Socialists for failing to act swiftly to prevent the slide in Spain's fortunes and then belatedly bringing in austerity measures that have slashed wages, benefits and jobs.

    Spaniards are now resigned to further cuts, including in health and education, in the midst of the wider European crisis that has pushed Spain's borrowing costs to critical levels.

    MARKETS TO WELCOME RESULT

    Analysts said the result would be welcomed by markets.

    "From a market standpoint, an absolute majority for the PP is just what the doctor ordered. Mr. Rajoy will have a freer hand than his predecessor in that he will no longer be dependent on the support of the Catalans and the Basques to govern," said Nicholas Spiro, managing director of Spiro Sovereign Strategy in London.

    "The risk however, is that more retrenchment pushes the economy back into recession. Mr. Rajoy will have to tread very carefully given the dire state of Spain's economy."

    The bleak economic outlook hung over the election campaign. One in five Spanish workers are without a job, the worst unemployment rate in the euro zone.

    "Something's got to change here in Spain...People like us just want to work." Juan Antonio Fernandez, 60, an unemployed construction worker, said as he voted in Madrid.

    The 56-year-old Rajoy will not be sworn in until December but he is likely to swiftly lay out his plans during the government handover to reassure fraught markets.

    "I'm prepared to do what Spaniards want," Rajoy said after he voted in the wealthy Madrid neighborhood of Aravaca.

    Underlining the fragile situation, Spain's borrowing costs hit euro-era highs during the election campaign, almost reaching the 7 percent level at which other nations like Ireland and Greece sought international bail-outs. Growth has stalled.

    Hundreds of PP supporters savoured their victory, waving blue party banners and Spain's red and yellow flag and dancing to 1970s disco music outside their headquarters in Madrid.

    CHEAP CREDIT THEN CRASH

    Zapatero decided against running for a third term as his approval ratings sank. The Socialists chose veteran politician Alfredo Perez Rubalcaba as their leader for the campaign but he suffered because of his association with Zapatero and failed to inspire voters.

    Sunday's election took place on the 36th anniversary of the death of dictator General Francisco Franco, who ruled Spain from the 1936-39 Spanish Civil War until 1975.

    Following the restoration of democracy, Spain joined the European Union in 1986 and the euro in 1999, enjoying years of prosperity and a real estate boom driven by cheap credit.

    When the property market crashed in 2007 the government, companies and consumers found themselves over their heads in debt.

    Many disillusioned Socialist voters stayed home on Sunday or turned to smaller parties such as the United Left, the former communist party, which was heading for its strongest showing since the mid-1990s.

    In the Basque Country, people voted for the first time in years without the threat of violence, after the separatist guerrilla group ETA announced last month that it was giving up its armed struggle.

    A new Basque pro-independence party, Amaiur, performed strongly and looked like winning several seats in the northeastern region.
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:23 PM GMT
    This is good news, I hope it helps the Dow tomorrow.
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:32 PM GMT
    CHRISTOPHER34 saidThis is good news, I hope it helps the Dow tomorrow.

    Most likely will, but with the potential decline resulting from the super committee stalemate, the net effect could still be negative. Ultimately the impact will be positive, as it shows the outrage against policies of parties labeled Socialist as in Spain, or policies of parties not labeled Socialist, but who advocate socialist policies.
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:33 PM GMT
    CHRISTOPHER34 saidThis is good news, I hope it helps the Dow tomorrow.


    I doubt it - the thing to realize is that Spain is so far gone. Just as Merkel is considered "right wing" they're practically Democrats in the US context. To bring spending under control in Europe will require a Thatcher like figure in each of the countries that are currently under considerable stress.

    I want to believe that they have the fortitude to make the changes necessary but I am doubtful that will happen... but sometimes your purpose in the world is to serve as an example to others.
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:35 PM GMT
    They have to dispense with the euro entirely. Everything else is just putting a bandaid on the actual problem. Oh, and stop giving a shit about what "bond raiders" are saying. In fact, they should arrest the "bond raiders" and put them in jail for crimes against humanity.

    We could use a good Hague trial. I think it would lift people's spirits.
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:40 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    CHRISTOPHER34 saidThis is good news, I hope it helps the Dow tomorrow.


    I doubt it - the thing to realize is that Spain is so far gone. Just as Merkel is considered "right wing" they're practically Democrats in the US context. To bring spending under control in Europe will require a Thatcher like figure in each of the countries that are currently under considerable stress.

    I want to believe that they have the fortitude to make the changes necessary but I am doubtful that will happen... but sometimes your purpose in the world is to serve as an example to others.

    Still a step in the "right" direction.
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:42 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidThey have to dispense with the euro entirely. Everything else is just putting a bandaid on the actual problem. Oh, and stop giving a shit about what "bond raiders" are saying. In fact, they should arrest the "bond raiders" and put them in jail for crimes against humanity.

    We could use a good Hague trial. I think it would lift people's spirits.


    Yeah because it's bond raiders who forced these governments to borrow unsustainably who must now face the consequences. icon_rolleyes.gif

    How pathetic. If anything those like you should be put on trial for such policy failures and advocating spending on unsustainable pensions.
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:46 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidThey have to dispense with the euro entirely. Everything else is just putting a bandaid on the actual problem. Oh, and stop giving a shit about what "bond raiders" are saying. In fact, they should arrest the "bond raiders" and put them in jail for crimes against humanity.

    We could use a good Hague trial. I think it would lift people's spirits.


    Yeah because it's bond raiders who forced these governments to borrow unsustainably who must now face the consequences. icon_rolleyes.gif

    You're absolutely disgusting. If anything those like you should be put on trial for such policy failures and advocating spending on unsustainable pensions.


    The bond raiders manipulate their markets in order to drive countries to the brink up bankruptcy.

    And progressive policies have never failed. It's only when neoconservative douche bags get power that things go awry. icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:50 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidThey have to dispense with the euro entirely. Everything else is just putting a bandaid on the actual problem. Oh, and stop giving a shit about what "bond raiders" are saying. In fact, they should arrest the "bond raiders" and put them in jail for crimes against humanity.

    We could use a good Hague trial. I think it would lift people's spirits.


    Yeah because it's bond raiders who forced these governments to borrow unsustainably who must now face the consequences. icon_rolleyes.gif

    You're absolutely disgusting. If anything those like you should be put on trial for such policy failures and advocating spending on unsustainable pensions.


    The bond raiders manipulate their markets in order to drive countries to the brink up bankruptcy.

    And progressive policies have never failed. It's only when neoconservative douche bags get power that things go awry. icon_lol.gif


    No they don't. By selling short or by driving prices down they take considerable risk and rarely even getting to the true market value of a financial product. Where did you learn about finance? From Noam Chomsky?

    Countries drive themselves to the brink of bankruptcy borrowing from public markets and in foreign denominated dollars they always take that risk but also the benefit to shifting the burden to future generations. And when foreign markets chill because of their fears of an inability to pay? You would blame the traders? Bullshit. How plainly and intellectually corrupt you must be to believe that these politicians left or right have no responsibility for repaying their debts or that you can spend your way in government to prosperity.

    Oh how you are to be pitied Christian that you now must watch the failure in graphic detail of the policies you advocate around the world. From Occupy to the government spending in Europe not to mention the bankruptcy both intellectual and financial of municipalities and possibly states in the US.
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:51 PM GMT
    How interesting!

    It's reminiscent of the 2008 election here in the U.S. - when voters vented their rage on the Repubs for the worst economic crisis in generations!
    In fact we still haven't recovered from the Bush recession!
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:53 PM GMT
    Christian73 said...And progressive policies have never failed. It's only when neoconservative douche bags get power that things go awry. icon_lol.gif

    That flies in the face of what has occurred in several European countries that got in trouble fundamentally because of their progressive policies that supported big government, lavish entitlements, excess union strength forcing the entitlements, anti-business tax policies and regulations.

    General observation - I think some of the guys who make these pro-progressive arguments are good, patriotic people, but because of their ideology, are arguing against what is becoming obvious. I think over the next several months, the continued collapse of socialism in the US will not be pretty. Rioters in the street will become even more desperate and arguments will become increasingly ludicrous.
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    Nov 20, 2011 10:56 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidThey have to dispense with the euro entirely. Everything else is just putting a bandaid on the actual problem. Oh, and stop giving a shit about what "bond raiders" are saying. In fact, they should arrest the "bond raiders" and put them in jail for crimes against humanity.

    We could use a good Hague trial. I think it would lift people's spirits.


    Yeah because it's bond raiders who forced these governments to borrow unsustainably who must now face the consequences. icon_rolleyes.gif

    You're absolutely disgusting. If anything those like you should be put on trial for such policy failures and advocating spending on unsustainable pensions.


    The bond raiders manipulate their markets in order to drive countries to the brink up bankruptcy.

    And progressive policies have never failed. It's only when neoconservative douche bags get power that things go awry. icon_lol.gif


    No they don't. By selling short or by driving prices down they take considerable risk and rarely even getting to the true market value of a financial product. Where did you learn about finance? From Noam Chomsky?

    Countries drive themselves to the brink of bankruptcy borrowing from public markets and in foreign denominated dollars they always take that risk but also the benefit to shifting the burden to future generations. And when foreign markets chill because of their fears of an inability to pay? You would blame the traders? Bullshit. How plainly and intellectually corrupt you must be to believe that these politicians left or right have no responsibility for repaying their debts or that you can spend your way in government to prosperity.

    Oh how you are to be pitied Christian that you now must watch the failure in graphic detail of the policies you advocate around the world. From Occupy to the government spending in Europe not to mention the bankruptcy both intellectual and financial of municipalities and possibly states in the US.


    LOL. You're such a liar. You know as well as I do that the "public markets" are rigged to favor those "taking risks". Did you ever hear of John Paulson and Goldman Sachs?

    Your game is over. People are not standing for being ass raped by a bunch of Princeton grads coming up with a better algorithm for fleecing the money from the vast majority of Americans.
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    Nov 20, 2011 11:01 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidThey have to dispense with the euro entirely. Everything else is just putting a bandaid on the actual problem. Oh, and stop giving a shit about what "bond raiders" are saying. In fact, they should arrest the "bond raiders" and put them in jail for crimes against humanity.

    We could use a good Hague trial. I think it would lift people's spirits.


    Yeah because it's bond raiders who forced these governments to borrow unsustainably who must now face the consequences. icon_rolleyes.gif

    You're absolutely disgusting. If anything those like you should be put on trial for such policy failures and advocating spending on unsustainable pensions.


    The bond raiders manipulate their markets in order to drive countries to the brink up bankruptcy.

    And progressive policies have never failed. It's only when neoconservative douche bags get power that things go awry. icon_lol.gif


    No they don't. By selling short or by driving prices down they take considerable risk and rarely even getting to the true market value of a financial product. Where did you learn about finance? From Noam Chomsky?

    Countries drive themselves to the brink of bankruptcy borrowing from public markets and in foreign denominated dollars they always take that risk but also the benefit to shifting the burden to future generations. And when foreign markets chill because of their fears of an inability to pay? You would blame the traders? Bullshit. How plainly and intellectually corrupt you must be to believe that these politicians left or right have no responsibility for repaying their debts or that you can spend your way in government to prosperity.

    Oh how you are to be pitied Christian that you now must watch the failure in graphic detail of the policies you advocate around the world. From Occupy to the government spending in Europe not to mention the bankruptcy both intellectual and financial of municipalities and possibly states in the US.


    LOL. You're such a liar. You know as well as I do that the "public markets" are rigged to favor those "taking risks". Did you ever hear of John Paulson and Goldman Sachs?

    Your game is over. People are not standing for being ass raped by a bunch of Princeton grads coming up with a better algorithm for fleecing the money from the vast majority of Americans.


    Sorry, your words are so laced with desperation, it's amusing. The reality is that none of us believe that the bailouts should have happened and it's your insistence on conflating crony capitalists with capitalism itself that's your biggest weakness - not to mention overlooking this Administrations blatant ease of rewarding its friends through industrial policy.

    As for lies? Look in the mirror Christian because that's what a liar looks like. I don't know if you're lying to yourself or just to others, but reality looks quite different when you actually bother to look at why no one is buying these countries' bonds. It's demagoguery plain and simple to blame traders for the fiscal failures of largely leftwing politicians in these countries and counties in pursuit of the failed vision you advocate.
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    Nov 20, 2011 11:08 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidLOL. You're such a liar. You know as well as I do that the "public markets" are rigged to favor those "taking risks". Did you ever hear of John Paulson and Goldman Sachs?

    Your game is over. People are not standing for being ass raped by a bunch of Princeton grads coming up with a better algorithm for fleecing the money from the vast majority of Americans.

    No your game is over. Unfortunate to see you become so shrill and what you say makes no sense at all. Very unfortunate.
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    Nov 20, 2011 11:11 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. You're such a liar. You know as well as I do that the "public markets" are rigged to favor those "taking risks". Did you ever hear of John Paulson and Goldman Sachs?

    Your game is over. People are not standing for being ass raped by a bunch of Princeton grads coming up with a better algorithm for fleecing the money from the vast majority of Americans.

    No your game is over. Unfortunate to see you become so shrill and what you say makes no sense at all. Very unfortunate.


    I'm not the one worried about riots, John...
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    Nov 20, 2011 11:14 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidThey have to dispense with the euro entirely. Everything else is just putting a bandaid on the actual problem. Oh, and stop giving a shit about what "bond raiders" are saying. In fact, they should arrest the "bond raiders" and put them in jail for crimes against humanity.

    We could use a good Hague trial. I think it would lift people's spirits.


    Yeah because it's bond raiders who forced these governments to borrow unsustainably who must now face the consequences. icon_rolleyes.gif

    You're absolutely disgusting. If anything those like you should be put on trial for such policy failures and advocating spending on unsustainable pensions.


    The bond raiders manipulate their markets in order to drive countries to the brink up bankruptcy.

    And progressive policies have never failed. It's only when neoconservative douche bags get power that things go awry. icon_lol.gif


    No they don't. By selling short or by driving prices down they take considerable risk and rarely even getting to the true market value of a financial product. Where did you learn about finance? From Noam Chomsky?

    Countries drive themselves to the brink of bankruptcy borrowing from public markets and in foreign denominated dollars they always take that risk but also the benefit to shifting the burden to future generations. And when foreign markets chill because of their fears of an inability to pay? You would blame the traders? Bullshit. How plainly and intellectually corrupt you must be to believe that these politicians left or right have no responsibility for repaying their debts or that you can spend your way in government to prosperity.

    Oh how you are to be pitied Christian that you now must watch the failure in graphic detail of the policies you advocate around the world. From Occupy to the government spending in Europe not to mention the bankruptcy both intellectual and financial of municipalities and possibly states in the US.


    LOL. You're such a liar. You know as well as I do that the "public markets" are rigged to favor those "taking risks". Did you ever hear of John Paulson and Goldman Sachs?

    Your game is over. People are not standing for being ass raped by a bunch of Princeton grads coming up with a better algorithm for fleecing the money from the vast majority of Americans.


    Sorry, your words are so laced with desperation, it's amusing. The reality is that none of us believe that the bailouts should have happened and it's your insistence on conflating crony capitalists with capitalism itself that's your biggest weakness - not to mention overlooking this Administrations blatant ease of rewarding its friends through industrial policy.

    As for lies? Look in the mirror Christian because that's what a liar looks like. I don't know if you're lying to yourself or just to others, but reality looks quite different when you actually bother to look at why no one is buying these countries' bonds. It's demagoguery plain and simple to blame traders for the fiscal failures of largely leftwing politicians in these countries and counties in pursuit of the failed vision you advocate.


    icon_lol.gif The bailouts were pushed for by your ideological brethren and resisted by the Left and a few actual libertarians.

    And I do not conflate "crony capitalists" with "capitalism", they have done that themselves and you just continue supporting their policies and trying to rationalize the economic violence that has been inflicted on millions of Americans in pursuit of greed.
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    Nov 20, 2011 11:14 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. You're such a liar. You know as well as I do that the "public markets" are rigged to favor those "taking risks". Did you ever hear of John Paulson and Goldman Sachs?

    Your game is over. People are not standing for being ass raped by a bunch of Princeton grads coming up with a better algorithm for fleecing the money from the vast majority of Americans.

    No your game is over. Unfortunate to see you become so shrill and what you say makes no sense at all. Very unfortunate.

    I'm not the one worried about riots, John...

    I'm not either because they will only harden opinion against them further. (BTW - I can't see from my perspective letting you get away with these arguments, but not gloating either. Situation in Spain, thread topic, is pretty obvious.)
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    Nov 20, 2011 11:17 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. You're such a liar. You know as well as I do that the "public markets" are rigged to favor those "taking risks". Did you ever hear of John Paulson and Goldman Sachs?

    Your game is over. People are not standing for being ass raped by a bunch of Princeton grads coming up with a better algorithm for fleecing the money from the vast majority of Americans.

    No your game is over. Unfortunate to see you become so shrill and what you say makes no sense at all. Very unfortunate.

    I'm not the one worried about riots, John...

    I'm not either because they will only harden opinion against them further. (BTW - I can't see from my perspective letting you get away with these arguments, but not gloating either. Situation in Spain, thread topic, is pretty obvious.)


    Reactionary elections following economic crises are not unusual in history. In fact, they are the rule. Then once the right-wing overreaches again, a far more left-wing group will take hold. We're midway through the process in the US now and beginning to see the right lose its hold on the national dialogue despite its near control of corporate media.
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    Nov 20, 2011 11:28 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. You're such a liar. You know as well as I do that the "public markets" are rigged to favor those "taking risks". Did you ever hear of John Paulson and Goldman Sachs?

    Your game is over. People are not standing for being ass raped by a bunch of Princeton grads coming up with a better algorithm for fleecing the money from the vast majority of Americans.

    No your game is over. Unfortunate to see you become so shrill and what you say makes no sense at all. Very unfortunate.

    I'm not the one worried about riots, John...

    I'm not either because they will only harden opinion against them further. (BTW - I can't see from my perspective letting you get away with these arguments, but not gloating either. Situation in Spain, thread topic, is pretty obvious.)

    Reactionary elections following economic crises are not unusual in history. In fact, they are the rule. Then once the right-wing overreaches again, a far more left-wing group will take hold. We're midway through the process in the US now and beginning to see the right lose its hold on the national dialogue despite its near control of corporate media.

    "Reactionary elections following economic crises are not unusual in history." True statement, but can be political crises as well. Carter won as an outsider, not tainted by Nixon or Ford's pardon of him. His liberalism was a disaster, and liberals were out for years. Clinton was always identified more with the moderate wing than the liberal wing, so it wasn't until the economic disaster of 2008 that helped bring Obama into office. His liberalism is also a disaster, just like Carter, so if the pattern repeats, he will be gone, as will liberalism for many years.
  • creature

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    Nov 21, 2011 1:05 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidLOL. You're such a liar. You know as well as I do that the "public markets" are rigged to favor those "taking risks". Did you ever hear of John Paulson and Goldman Sachs?

    Your game is over. People are not standing for being ass raped by a bunch of Princeton grads coming up with a better algorithm for fleecing the money from the vast majority of Americans.

    No your game is over. Unfortunate to see you become so shrill and what you say makes no sense at all. Very unfortunate.

    I'm not the one worried about riots, John...

    I'm not either because they will only harden opinion against them further. (BTW - I can't see from my perspective letting you get away with these arguments, but not gloating either. Situation in Spain, thread topic, is pretty obvious.)

    Reactionary elections following economic crises are not unusual in history. In fact, they are the rule. Then once the right-wing overreaches again, a far more left-wing group will take hold. We're midway through the process in the US now and beginning to see the right lose its hold on the national dialogue despite its near control of corporate media.

    "Reactionary elections following economic crises are not unusual in history." True statement, but can be political crises as well. Carter won as an outsider, not tainted by Nixon or Ford's pardon of him. His liberalism was a disaster, and liberals were out for years. Clinton was always identified more with the moderate wing than the liberal wing, so it wasn't until the economic disaster of 2008 that helped bring Obama into office. His liberalism is also a disaster, just like Carter, so if the pattern repeats, he will be gone, as will liberalism for many years.


    I'm dying to know how you will portray the narrative should President Obama win a re-election. You seem so assured that he's doomed for failure. I wonder how you'll spin it.
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    Nov 21, 2011 2:18 AM GMT
    creature saidI'm dying to know how you will portray the narrative should President Obama win a re-election. You seem so assured that he's doomed for failure. I wonder how you'll spin it.

    Actually, I'm not taking it for granted that he will lose. He is planning on raising an enormous amount of money and running the most negative, smear campaign in history. Obviously, he can't run on his record. I also expect the taxpayers to pay for much of his campaign travel, which he will deny is campaigning.

    Nevertheless, I am confident but not over-confident that he will be defeated. Whatever mud he throws will be thrown back, ten-fold - Maybe not by the candidate, who must stay above it. The mistakes of McCain will not be repeated. Even the media that wants to cover for him will be compelled to report stories, though they will soft-pedal them. Fox, talk radio, and the internet will be effective in keeping a balance. He is thin-skinned, can dish it out, but can't take it. I am expecting he will act anything but presidential, as he is subject to humiliating critique of his performance and his character. I expect him to be further humiliated in debates, either by Romney or Gingrich. Either will take him apart, piece by piece.