Run Your Car On Water...........

  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 03, 2008 6:20 PM GMT
    Diesel has hit an all time high in Ireland. It is now more expensive than petrol. Over €1-41 per litre.

    I was looking for some info on bio-diesel on the net, when I found this, http://www.drivewithwaterfuel.com/?hop=kevinkanny

    What do you think? Is this for real? Have any of you tried it? Are any of you using it?

    Disclaimer: I have no connection with this site, and I am not promoting it in any way, so please RJ, do not kick me off RJ for posting this link. I'm just looking for opinions icon_smile.gif If it is not aloud you can always pull the thread, but I'd like to stay icon_wink.gif Thanks icon_smile.gif

    Mike
  • TallGWMvballe...

    Posts: 1925

    Jun 03, 2008 7:58 PM GMT
    Thank you for posting this.
    I watched all the videos and it makes sense but I have to ask if it is so effective, why isn't there more noise about it in the media.

    Has anyone here on RJ or anyone you know tried this yet?

    I am comptemplating sending for the plans.
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    Jun 03, 2008 8:33 PM GMT
    Yes, this works for a lot of cars but the claims are exagerated. A 10%-20% mileage increase is possible because of the way your engine is designed. It is designed to produce excess electricity (from the gas you are already burning). The electricity is then used to separate hydrogen and water molecules, which are then injected into your engine in order to be re-burned, which produces the water you started with. If your car did not have an over-engineered electrical system, you would simply drain the battery or quickly wear out your alternator. Most people could realize the same gains by doing what race cars have been doing for years - use a smaller alternator to reduce the load on the engine.

    What they are selling are plans for an electrolytic hydrogen generator that you can get for free off the internet.

    There are similar commercial systems available for large diesel freight trucks but they are similarly improving efficiency by exploiting an existing over-design already present in the system. Tractor trailers must already produce enough energy at idle to maintain an abundance of accessories.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 03, 2008 8:36 PM GMT
    I've been contemplating that also. I would like to talk to someone that has done it first though. There are a few sits on this. Google it. Different prices also.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 03, 2008 9:02 PM GMT
    JustJohn saidYes, this works for a lot of cars but the claims are exagerated. A 10%-20% mileage increase is possible because of the way your engine is designed. It is designed to produce excess electricity (from the gas you are already burning). The electricity is then used to separate hydrogen and water molecules, which are then injected into your engine in order to be re-burned, which produces the water you started with. If your car did not have an over-engineered electrical system, you would simply drain the battery or quickly wear out your alternator. Most people could realize the same gains by doing what race cars have been doing for years - use a smaller alternator to reduce the load on the engine.

    What they are selling are plans for an electrolytic hydrogen generator that you can get for free off the internet.

    There are similar commercial systems available for large diesel freight trucks but they are similarly improving efficiency by exploiting an existing over-design already present in the system. Tractor trailers must already produce enough energy at idle to maintain an abundance of accessories.




    Only 10% to 20% icon_question.gif

    Can you do damage to your car with this system?

    And where are those free plans?
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    Jun 03, 2008 9:34 PM GMT
    MikePhil said

    Only 10% to 20% icon_question.gif

    Can you do damage to your car with this system?

    And where are those free plans?


    Here you go...No affiliation etc.
    http://www.hasslberger.com/img/plan1.gif
    http://www.hasslberger.com/img/plan2.gif
    http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2005/08/free_hydrogen_g.html
    http://www3.telus.net/chemelec/Projects/Hydrogen/Hydrogen.htm

    You can find more if you search on "water powered car" or similar. Sort of like the recent story on the guy who is trying to cure cancer using radio waves and ended up also building a machine that also allows water to burn, a lot of this is simply taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge of the basic conservation of energy principles.

    Even so, I thought about trying this with a lawnmower sometime but simply haven't gotten around to it.

    - yes, it is possible to damage the engine
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    Jun 04, 2008 5:20 AM GMT
    I don't like how when I left that site, it threw one of those "wait!!! are you sure you want to leave?" pop-ups at me.

    That right there should tell you they're trying to scam something.
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    Jun 04, 2008 5:35 AM GMT
    Yeah, looks like a network marketing type of deal. I was intrigued by the TechWeb video, although I wasn't quite sure how it related to the product being advertised on this Web site. I'd definitely like to do some more research on this.
  • TallGWMvballe...

    Posts: 1925

    Jun 04, 2008 5:46 AM GMT
    ruck_us saidYeah, looks like a network marketing type of deal. I was intrigued by the TechWeb video, although I wasn't quite sure how it related to the product being advertised on this Web site. I'd definitely like to do some more research on this.


    Yeah, how about the shorts clips of the lawnmover and the Phipinos.
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    Jun 04, 2008 10:08 PM GMT
    Here's the commercial truck version plus some of the slicker car kits. Again, no affiliation, endorsement, etc.

    http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/trucks.html
    http://savefuel.ca/hydrogen/testimonials.php?id=reviews
    http://savefuel.ca/hydrogen/testimonials.php?id=reviews

    My original point was that this is not really new technology and simply exploits existing built-in losses in complex vehicles with combustion engines. You could just as easily separate hydrogen at home, compress it, and run your car on hydrogen more efficiently than using a combustion engine to generate electricity, which in turn would be used to generate hydrogen, which in turn could be used to burn in the engine. Some people have taken this to mean that they might be able to remove the gasoline from this equation, which would be incorrect. Others have tried to optimize this or similar systems. You would call this a hybrid and it was first patented by Ferdinand Porsche way back in the day, although he never actually tried any commercial vehicle production. A more efficient method of recovering energy from the engine would be to simply charge a large battery from the alternator and use it to drive a supplemental electric motor - this should sound like a familiar system.
    In a modern engine, burning too much H2 is dangerous for two reasons: The resulting exhaust, water vapor, will quickly rust out everything not made of stainless steel or non-reactive metal. There are also no sensors in a modern car to regulate the intake of H2 or the exhaust, so you could end up with a nasty combustion surprise (think Hindenberg). Currently cars can only monitor for the presence of oxygen and there are a few that now have NOx gas sensors.
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    Jun 04, 2008 10:24 PM GMT
    Car and Driver and other automotive press have historically done an ocassional write up of stuff like this.

    This is really just marketeering. If it was practical or even remotely cost effective, manufacturers would be implementing en masse by now. There's a lot of tendency to badmouth the auto companies, but if it were possible to beat out the competition with a huge increase in fuel efficiency, manufacturers would already be doing it. Toyota wisely invested in hybrid development a few years ago, and the results are now clear. Honda has invested tremendously in fuel cell technology, and while there are engineering hurdles that still need to be overcome, they already have a small test audience of Hydrogen powered cars on the road in California.

    Many people in the US are practically freaking out over the cost of gasoline, and admittedly it has risen dramatically in the recent past, even as petrol company profits have soared... CNN is making it sound like the biggest catastrophe since the Great Depression. But aside from the ethical issues with the petrol companies, OPEC political decisions, etc., we've known for a long time that fossil fuels were growing increasingly scarce. With the cheap fuel of the 80's and 90's, many forgot the lessons of the 70's and went back to 12mpg vehicles. So when CNN runs some story about how a person suddenly can't afford their 50 mile commute with their Ford Expedition, I don't see why that's some huge economic crisis. If their budget was that tight, why not buy a more efficient vehicle in the first place?

    That said, while this concept is interesting from a science fair perspective, I think any real fuel economy gains from IC engines will be done through new materials, continually improved combustion technology, gearboxes, etc.
  • TallGWMvballe...

    Posts: 1925

    Jun 04, 2008 11:09 PM GMT
    Good points, ITALMUSCLEBKN,

    Now I worry about pumping Hydrogen into the gas mixture and what it will do to the balance all through the engine with all the various sensors and computer controlled valves,

    I have to agree that if this was a really viable, easy to do solution, larger manufactures would allready have them available for sale with lots of research and testing to back up the claims.
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    Jun 04, 2008 11:14 PM GMT

    Run your car on water? We need water. Now trash, we don't need trash...or old french fry grease.


  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 04, 2008 11:22 PM GMT
    Large manufactures could not make money out of something you can make yourself, so they are not interested. Just like drug companies, they are not interested in herbs. No money in them. You can grow them yourself.

    Oil companies control lots of things. It is not governments that run countries, it is big companies, and they have only one interest and that is profit.
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    Jun 04, 2008 11:28 PM GMT

    GREAT! so when we all turn green, I wonder if we'll still feel like spendng the big bucks in America!
    ...........................Photobucket
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    Jun 04, 2008 11:31 PM GMT
    seen the news a long time ago. but surprisingly the way they sale the product like a scam with bad website.

    it'd think it'll need more power to convert. hence the running car is just a hybrid.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 04, 2008 11:41 PM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    GREAT! so when we all turn green, I wonder if we'll still feel like spendng the big bucks in America!
    ...........................Photobucket




    OMG, GuiltyGear is the Incredible Hulk icon_eek.gif

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 04, 2008 11:44 PM GMT

    I'm no Hulk, but I am, incredible!
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    Jun 05, 2008 4:13 AM GMT
    Nothing like having the Hindenburg under the hood.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 05, 2008 4:58 AM GMT
    icon_lol.gif