GINGRICH CALLS FOR AMNESTY FOR LONG TERM ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

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    Nov 23, 2011 10:31 PM GMT
    I wonder how conservatives will react to this?


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2011/11/23/mitt-romney-meet-the-press-immigration-amnesty-_n_1110298.html
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    Nov 24, 2011 3:09 AM GMT
    I'm Conservative and disagree with most of the Right on immigration. I think this is a great idea.
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    Nov 24, 2011 8:50 AM GMT
    Is it a power play for more moderate GOP voters?
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    Nov 24, 2011 3:05 PM GMT
    Both he and Romney are in a fight for the moderate GOP voters, but I don't think Gingrich is doing this for that reason. I could be wrong, it is politics and politicians we're talking about after all, but I think he's being genuine.

    And I don't think amnesty is a one-sided issue anyway. A lot of my Democrat friends and co-workers are against it as well.
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    Nov 24, 2011 4:25 PM GMT
    I think the best approach is to just permanently keep all illegal immigrants as second class citizens. Since deportation on a mass scale is pretty unrealistic it would just be easier to allow all illegals to subsist in the country but without access to anything that a citizen could or the ability to vote or be a relevant presence. That would be the fair price they pay for breaking the law.

    What makes people think that the only two alternatives are deportation or amnesty?

    RIGuy60 saidBoth he and Romney are in a fight for the moderate GOP voters, but I don't think Gingrich is doing this for that reason. I could be wrong, it is politics and politicians we're talking about after all, but I think he's being genuine.

    And I don't think amnesty is a one-sided issue anyway. A lot of my Democrat friends and co-workers are against it as well.


    Correct, it has nothing to do with being "moderate" necessarily. I also happen to know many christians as well who are extremely pro amnesty.

  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Nov 24, 2011 5:15 PM GMT
    Gingrich seems to be talking sense here - and it's a relief to hear a "leader" talking about the issue in terms of realistic practicality - laced with a degree of compassion - rather than in terms of strict ideology. Without taking any sides, this sort of "let's figure out a solution" attitude is what we need to hear a great deal more of from both sides. Reality rarely bends to orthodoxy.
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    Nov 24, 2011 5:54 PM GMT
    tazzari saidGingrich seems to be talking sense here - and it's a relief to hear a "leader" talking about the issue in terms of realistic practicality - laced with a degree of compassion - rather than in terms of strict ideology. Without taking any sides, this sort of "let's figure out a solution" attitude is what we need to hear a great deal more of from both sides. Reality rarely bends to orthodoxy.


    Ah yes, let's also have compassion on a pedophile who committed crimes 20 years ago because it was so long ago and therefore shouldn't matter anymore.

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    Nov 24, 2011 6:11 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    Ah yes, let's also have compassion on a pedophile who committed crimes 20 years ago because it was so long ago and therefore shouldn't matter anymore.


    Hearing someone compare "working without the government's permission" and "sexually abusing a child" is so radical and nonsensical that its hard to tell if it's parody... or just your average modern-day Republican. Watching the GOP go through its death throes is a beautiful thing.
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    Nov 24, 2011 6:15 PM GMT
    torrentprime said
    mocktwinkie said
    Ah yes, let's also have compassion on a pedophile who committed crimes 20 years ago because it was so long ago and therefore shouldn't matter anymore.


    Hearing someone compare "working without the government's permission" and "sexually abusing a child" is so radical and nonsensical that its hard to tell if it's parody... or just your average modern-day Republican. Watching the GOP go through its death throes is a beautiful thing.


    The point is that breaking the law is breaking the law. Time doesn't make it less illegal so trying to pretend that this somehow has to do with compassion or cruelty now because "it happened a long time ago" is what is truly nonsensical.
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    Nov 24, 2011 6:26 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    torrentprime said
    Hearing someone compare "working without the government's permission" and "sexually abusing a child" is so radical and nonsensical that its hard to tell if it's parody... or just your average modern-day Republican. Watching the GOP go through its death throes is a beautiful thing.


    The point is that breaking the law is breaking the law. Time doesn't make it less illegal so trying to pretend that this somehow has to do with compassion or cruelty now because "it happened a long time ago" is what is truly nonsensical.


    Totally! Just like gay sex was illegal for a long time, and those of us that broke the law when it was the the law should definitely go to jail for our crimes. After all, it doesn't matter whether the law was right or wrong. What matters is what the piece of paper says.

    icon_rolleyes.gif

    I love when conservatives prove that their "FREEDOM!!1!" talk is just that - talk.
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    Nov 24, 2011 6:43 PM GMT
    torrentprime said
    mocktwinkie said
    torrentprime said
    Hearing someone compare "working without the government's permission" and "sexually abusing a child" is so radical and nonsensical that its hard to tell if it's parody... or just your average modern-day Republican. Watching the GOP go through its death throes is a beautiful thing.


    The point is that breaking the law is breaking the law. Time doesn't make it less illegal so trying to pretend that this somehow has to do with compassion or cruelty now because "it happened a long time ago" is what is truly nonsensical.


    Totally! Just like gay sex was illegal for a long time, and those of us that broke the law when it was the the law should definitely go to jail for our crimes. After all, it doesn't matter whether the law was right or wrong. What matters is what the piece of paper says.

    icon_rolleyes.gif

    I love when conservatives prove that their "FREEDOM!!1!" talk is just that - talk.


    Ah yes, and in 50 years if there happens to be a society that doesn't consider pedophilia wrong you can look back and say "what a shame all those pedophiles went to prison", now look, it's legal! After all, pedophilia used to be okay back in ancient times!!! icon_rolleyes.gifLaws change according to the views of society. If you want the law changed and for illegal immigration to not be a criminality try convincing everyone that open borders is the way we need to go. In the United States a 20yr old having sex with a 16yr old is considered illegal, in Europe it is not. Why? The society dictates that.

    Are you even for real or are you that inconceivably imbecilic?

    According to your logic, people who talk about liking freedom are just "talking", because if they really were in favor of everyone being "free" they'd let people rob each other, vandalize property and be able to get away with murder. You don't understand the first thing about freedom apparently.

    God what you just said is probably the single most stupidass thing I've seen all year.


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    Nov 24, 2011 7:12 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said

    Ah yes, and in 50 years if there happens to be a society where they don't consider pedophilia wrong can look back and say "what a shame all those pedophiles went to prison", now look, it's legal! After all, pedophilia used to be okay back in ancient times!!!


    Comparing gay sex to pedophilia? Self-hating gay alert!
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    Nov 24, 2011 7:37 PM GMT
    ^ Quite the enlightening response.
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    Nov 24, 2011 8:02 PM GMT
    illegal immigration to pedophilia in a single leap.

    That has got to be a record.


    It is the most laughable fallacy.
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    Nov 24, 2011 9:04 PM GMT
    torrentprime said
    mocktwinkie said

    Ah yes, and in 50 years if there happens to be a society where they don't consider pedophilia wrong can look back and say "what a shame all those pedophiles went to prison", now look, it's legal! After all, pedophilia used to be okay back in ancient times!!!


    Comparing gay sex to pedophilia? Self-hating gay alert!



    LOL
    Our RJ right-wingers are a sad and pathetic lot.
    I feel sorry for them!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 25, 2011 8:43 AM GMT
    RickRick91 said
    LOL
    Our RJ right-wingers are a sad and pathetic lot.
    I feel sorry for them!



    And things had gotten so friendly around here in your absence icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Nov 25, 2011 9:54 AM GMT
    who cares what this porky loser said....he is not going to win the R primary.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 25, 2011 11:42 AM GMT
    Watch his poll numbers sink like a stone
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    Nov 25, 2011 3:17 PM GMT
    torrentprime said
    mocktwinkie said

    Ah yes, and in 50 years if there happens to be a society where they don't consider pedophilia wrong can look back and say "what a shame all those pedophiles went to prison", now look, it's legal! After all, pedophilia used to be okay back in ancient times!!!


    Comparing gay sex to pedophilia? Self-hating gay alert!


    Gay sex was never compared to pedophilia you idiot. I was showing you how intensely pathetic your attempt to defend illegal immigration was. And of course, I succeeded because you had to resort to some fictitious non-response comparison.
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    Nov 25, 2011 4:21 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidTime doesn't make it less illegal so trying to pretend that this somehow has to do with compassion or cruelty now because "it happened a long time ago" is what is truly nonsensical.


    Oh yes, the compassion and cruelty point is soooo invalid. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Let's treat them as sub-humans. Let's break up families. Let's send people back to their poor, third world, crime-ridden villages so they can raise their kids there instead of here. And let's tell all the single, hard-working individuals who want to work and go to school but can't because they need at least a green card but current immigration laws make it impossible for them to do that. Let's just tell them to get lost.

    I don't know what side of the political fence you're on, mocktwinkie, but if you're a Right-winger like I am, it's people like you who give us a bad name.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 25, 2011 6:47 PM GMT
    There really is no practical way to deal with the immigration issue other than to seal the border using every state of the art and military aids we have, while at the same time creating a pathway to citizenship for those who are already here. The idea that we are going to ship them all out of the country back to where they came from makes absolutely no sense and is simply not practical. Newt Gingrich seemed to offer a practical, compassionate, and realistic approach to a problem that simply must be solved. I do think there should be certain criteria in which the illegals here are deemed eligible (or ineligible) to gain citizenship and remain in the country:

    1) How long have they been in the USA, and why did they come here?

    2) Have they been working in the USA, are they currently employed, and what is their income tax records?

    3) Are they a business owner in the USA?

    4) Do they own real estate in the USA?

    5) Have they been arrested and/or convicted for any crimes in the USA?

    6) Do they have family here, and what is the citizenship status of that family?

    7) What is their age and educational background, and have they been educated in the USA?

    8 - Can they pass an English language exam?
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    Nov 25, 2011 10:38 PM GMT
    RIGuy60 said
    mocktwinkie saidTime doesn't make it less illegal so trying to pretend that this somehow has to do with compassion or cruelty now because "it happened a long time ago" is what is truly nonsensical.


    Oh yes, the compassion and cruelty point is soooo invalid. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Let's treat them as sub-humans. Let's break up families. Let's send people back to their poor, third world, crime-ridden villages so they can raise their kids there instead of here. And let's tell all the single, hard-working individuals who want to work and go to school but can't because they need at least a green card but current immigration laws make it impossible for them to do that. Let's just tell them to get lost.

    I don't know what side of the political fence you're on, mocktwinkie, but if you're a Right-winger like I am, it's people like you who give us a bad name.


    You act as if innocent people are being punished for something if they are not allowed citizenship. They knew very well what they were doing when they broke the law to begin with. Do you honestly think illegal immigrants in Mexico are treated with the same absurd amount of compassion? Your reasoning seriously appeals to emotions, but the implications of it creates utter chaos. Similar to your line of thinking I could easily paint a scenario where anyone who objects to the entire third world from immigrating to the first world as "cruel" because opponents of such an idea OBVIOUSLY don't want poor disadvantaged and struggling individuals who come from a bad economic situation to get a chance at enjoying and making a better life. What about all the people who are still in third world countries where the illegals left to begin with? Are we going to let them "get lost" too? What kind of cruel heartless person would suggest that we don't let them all in!! Are we going to let all of the rest of them raise their children in crime-ridden villages?

    Seriously, can't you see how truly ridiculous you sound? What makes the immigrants who came here and broke the law any more deserving than the ones still trapped in their countries?

    You don't think on a humanistic level I feel bad for these people? Of course I do. If I was one of them I'd probably do the same thing. There are no easy solutions. What are we going to do, fool ourselves into believing that we can give everyone in this world a promise of prosperity?

    Your rationale doesn't really endure a viable outcome. Let's turn the first world into the third world by letting all of the third world in so we can all enjoy the same rut together and nobody has to feel bad that they have the "better life" except for a few families running the country?

    If you give amnesty to the illegals who have been here for a while you would have to come up with some sort of time criteria, then after you do that there are going to be millions more who "almost qualify", then what are you going to do with them? The others will scream "unfair, I almost qualify!" Then if you lower the standard again and make it easier for the next category then it just goes on and on and the entire immigration system has been transformed into a travesty. Giving amnesty in any way shape or form would make a complete mockery out of our immigration system and prove to the world that it pays off if you break the law, you just have to try to get away with it for long enough.

    With my proposal, illegals are neither punished nor rewarded, they are just permanently second class citizens. In fact, it's more rewarding than it is punishing because they can at least find whatever work someone is willing to give them.