Another reason why I am not a conservative...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 26, 2011 8:03 PM GMT
    *Oh no! Obama didn't mention "God" in his Thanksgiving address!* Luckily, conservatives in my region of the country are not notoriusly theocratic.

    http://news.yahoo.com/obama-leaves-god-thanksgiving-speech-riles-critics-173023786.html

    Gay conservatives often critique gay liberals for supporting the Democratic Party solely because of its (normally) pro-gay platform; but for me, there are many other reasons why I normally vote Democrat. Church and state issues are much more important to me than gay rights as the separation of church and state is an umbrella issue encompassing many issues: teacher-led sectarian prayer, gay rights, abortion, stem cell research, evolution v. creationism, subsidies for faith-based public initiatives, tax-exempt churches, religion endorsed by the government, & abstinence-only sex education.
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    Nov 26, 2011 8:13 PM GMT
    Yup, read about this this morning. I struggled not to roll my eyes. He's the US president. That means he represents everyone whether they are religious or areligious. Giving thanks or being thankful is a personal, not governmental, activity. I don't need an elected official telling me to whom, nor why, I am thankful.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2929

    Nov 26, 2011 8:13 PM GMT
    Very well put. To which I'd add that (admitting there are excesses) the bent of the Democratic party is toward generosity, taking care of the other, compassion; where I find the current GOP to be the opposite, as well as fear-laden (and fear manipulating), apt to use hate and distrust to scare people into the coral, and often what seems simply a front for selfishness.

    Of course there are exceptions on both sides, and I believe that a solid, well-reason, educated conservative voice is badly needed (as needed as it is lacking... ). The issues you mention are certainly symptomatic of a whole way of thinking; sadly, many of them used to be conservative values, in the Old Day.

    Good post. Now run for cover!
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    Nov 27, 2011 3:08 AM GMT
    Being politically conservative doesn't necessarily mean you believe in God. There are many atheists who are rightwing -- it's far more in harmony with the precepts of darwinistic evolution and the overall idea of idea of survival of the fittest anyway (although it stresses that individuals and communities should help others more than a centralized government that is so easily laced with corruption and special interests).

    To me your "reason" for not being conservative really doesn't make much sense. If I was an atheist I'd still be conservative.

    However, I think that making references to God and Christianity in an official capacity is fundamental when it comes to a nation like ours, especially for a President because of the fact that it is such an integral part of our culture and heritage in the same way Thanksgiving and Christmas are.

    Do you celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas even though you aren't Christian?

    Our identity as a "Christian" nation, even if it is only as a valued tradition, is an important binding agent in making our greatness and maintaining our identity. That's just the way I feel about it.

  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 27, 2011 12:11 PM GMT
    Being politically conservative doesn't necessarily mean you believe in God

    Ok then how about being republican?
    Try this walk into the Republican Convention with a sign saying "I don't believe in God" and see how far pat the door you get icon_cool.gif
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    Nov 27, 2011 2:11 PM GMT
    GQjock saidBeing politically conservative doesn't necessarily mean you believe in God

    Ok then how about being republican?
    Try this walk into the Republican Convention with a sign saying "I don't believe in God" and see how far pat the door you get icon_cool.gif


    It's the same way for a democrat, do you really think Obama would have gotten in the white house saying he isn't a christian and doesn't believe in God?
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    Nov 27, 2011 2:33 PM GMT
    you guys "debate" by seeing who can outdo the other side at supposition and psychic ability to predict what OTHERS WOULD do.


    How the fuck did you circle jerkers graduate high school?

    icon_rolleyes.gificon_evil.gif

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    Nov 27, 2011 3:37 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidBeing politically conservative doesn't necessarily mean you believe in God.
    Really? You might want to check with the rest of your 'party'..........they will highly disagree with you!
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    Nov 27, 2011 3:43 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said

    Do you celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas even though you aren't Christian?


    THIS is why I know that your twink brain is indeed a twink brain.

    Thanksgiving is a "good harvest" festival derived from both european and native american traditions..no religious origins.icon_rolleyes.gif
    Christmas is a religious holiday that has now gone commercial.

    Native Americans are NOT 'christians'... but then again I'm sure twink brains cant grasp that context.
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    Nov 27, 2011 3:48 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Do you celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas even though you aren't Christian?


    THIS is why I know that your twink brain is indeed a twink brain.

    Thanksgiving is a "good harvest" festival derived from both european and native american traditions..no religious origins.icon_rolleyes.gif
    Christmas is a religious holiday that has now gone commercial.

    Native Americans are NOT 'christians'... but then again I'm sure twink brains cant grasp that context.


    You´re wrong. He has no brain, just a word document with libertarian talking points which he cuts and pastes from ...
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2929

    Nov 27, 2011 5:48 PM GMT
    "Do you celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas even though you aren't Christian? "

    I have plenty of friends who celebrate Seder dinners, etc. who aren't religious. Ditto my atheist friends who still enjoy Christmas dinner, and many of us celebrate New Year's Eve without thinking there is any real significance to it.
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    Nov 27, 2011 7:09 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Do you celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas even though you aren't Christian?


    THIS is why I know that your twink brain is indeed a twink brain.

    Thanksgiving is a "good harvest" festival derived from both european and native american traditions..no religious origins.icon_rolleyes.gif
    Christmas is a religious holiday that has now gone commercial.

    Native Americans are NOT 'christians'... but then again I'm sure twink brains cant grasp that context.


    The whole point of "Thanksgiving" was about giving thanks to God and that's why we celebrate it.

    And d'oh Christmas is a religious holiday that has "now gone commercial", would you care to enlighten us on another previously unknown fact?
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    Nov 27, 2011 7:10 PM GMT
    tazzari said"Do you celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas even though you aren't Christian? "

    I have plenty of friends who celebrate Seder dinners, etc. who aren't religious. Ditto my atheist friends who still enjoy Christmas dinner, and many of us celebrate New Year's Eve without thinking there is any real significance to it.


    Thanks for confirming my point -- that many of us who aren't religious celebrate these events.
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    Nov 27, 2011 7:22 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Do you celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas even though you aren't Christian?


    THIS is why I know that your twink brain is indeed a twink brain.

    Thanksgiving is a "good harvest" festival derived from both european and native american traditions..no religious origins.icon_rolleyes.gif
    Christmas is a religious holiday that has now gone commercial.

    Native Americans are NOT 'christians'... but then again I'm sure twink brains cant grasp that context.


    The whole point of "Thanksgiving" was about giving thanks to God and that's why we celebrate it.

    And d'oh Christmas is a religious holiday that has "now gone commercial", would you care to enlighten us on another previously unknown fact?


    No. It isn't. Thanksgiving is about giving thanks for the bounty of the harvest.
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    Nov 27, 2011 7:26 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidThere are many atheists who are rightwing -- it's far more in harmony with the precepts of darwinistic evolution and the overall idea of idea of survival of the fittest anyway


    Except that this is a misconception of Darwinian evolution that has nothing to do with it!
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Nov 27, 2011 7:53 PM GMT
    I personally do not think it is an issue. It will not cost Obama any votes in 2012.

    Obama has strong religious support. Rev. Sharpton, Rev. Wright, Rev. Jackson, and 99.9% of African-American ministers nation-wide – if not world-wide – support Obama. Even Arch Bishop Tutu supports Obama.

    Obama in fact could chase pussy through the rose garden while MSM filmed the chase and he would continue to hold his strong religious support.

    Again, I do not think it is an issue. Obama will still poll 80% of the gay male vote. The lesbian vote…..that perhaps is a different story.

    It is going to be one grand election year.
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    Nov 27, 2011 8:46 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    mocktwinkie said
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Do you celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas even though you aren't Christian?


    THIS is why I know that your twink brain is indeed a twink brain.

    Thanksgiving is a "good harvest" festival derived from both european and native american traditions..no religious origins.icon_rolleyes.gif
    Christmas is a religious holiday that has now gone commercial.

    Native Americans are NOT 'christians'... but then again I'm sure twink brains cant grasp that context.


    The whole point of "Thanksgiving" was about giving thanks to God and that's why we celebrate it.

    And d'oh Christmas is a religious holiday that has "now gone commercial", would you care to enlighten us on another previously unknown fact?


    No. It isn't. Thanksgiving is about giving thanks for the bounty of the harvest.


    Giving thanks to what? Oh yeah, that's right, God. Except in your version of the story, all the pilgrim's were thanking the food icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Nov 27, 2011 8:47 PM GMT
    TigerTim said
    mocktwinkie saidThere are many atheists who are rightwing -- it's far more in harmony with the precepts of darwinistic evolution and the overall idea of idea of survival of the fittest anyway


    Except that this is a misconception of Darwinian evolution that has nothing to do with it!


    Umm, no it isn't.
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    Nov 27, 2011 8:59 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidIt's the same way for a democrat, do you really think Obama would have gotten in the white house saying he isn't a christian and doesn't believe in God?

    That must be why Republicans in the 2008 election, along with their right-wing talk show spokespersons, were spreading the falsehood that Obama is a closet Muslim. Only Christians may occupy the White House, ergo, don't elect Obama.
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    Nov 27, 2011 10:07 PM GMT
    Gerald Ford didn't mention the word "God" in his 1975 address. No wonder he wasn't re-elected, with all this talk about pluralism and native Americans. icon_lol.gif
    http://www.pilgrimhall.org/ThanxProc1970.htmPROCLAMATION 4405, THANKSGIVING DAY, 1975
    BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, A PROCLAMATION
    Two hundred years ago the frontier colonies of America braced for a long and determined conflict with the strongest military power in the world. The petition of our Founding Fathers for redress of their grievances had been rejected by King and Parliament, and the people of America began the struggle from which emerged this great Nation.
    Our Nation is the oldest continuously surviving republic in the world. For 200 years our freedoms have been questioned, challenged, tested and reinforced. These freedoms have shaped our destiny and served as a beacon to other peoples. Our Nation draws its strength from people of every creed, of every color, of every race - native Americans and people from every nation in the world who for two centuries have come to share in the rewards and responsibilities of our American Republic.
    On the eve of our 200th year, Thanksgiving Day should be a day of special reflection upon the qualities of heart, mind and character of the men and women who founded and built our great Nation. Let us join in giving thanks for our cultural pluralism. Let us celebrate our diversity and the great strengths that have come from sharing our traditions, our ideas, our resources, our hopes and our dreams. Let us be grateful that for 200 years our people have been dedicated to fulfilling the democratic ideal - dedicated to securing "liberty and justice for all."
    NOW, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States of America, in accord with Section 6103 of Title 5 of the United States Code, do hereby proclaim Thursday, November 27, 1975, as a day of national thanksgiving.
    Let each of us, in his own way, join in expressing personal gratitude for the blessings of liberty and peace we enjoy today. In so doing, let us reaffirm our belief in a dynamic spirit that will continue to nurture and guide us as we prepare to meet the challenge of our third century.
    I call upon all Americans on this day to gather with family and friends in homes and places of worship and join in offering gratitude for this Nation’s countless blessings. I ask that we share with our senior citizens and with those less fortunate than ourselves this special day that brings us all closer together.
    IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this fourth day of November, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred seventy-five, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundredth.


    Just to be fair, Obama did say the word "Lord" just like Gerald Ford did.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1980

    Nov 27, 2011 10:10 PM GMT
    Yet another manufactured "scandal" ginned up by right-wingers who have no real solutions to our nation's problems.
    So Obama committed a grave offense by omitting God from his Thanksgiving address, but it's completely fine when the Republican presidential candidates do the exact same thing? Gingrich, Romney and Santorum also issued Thanksgiving statements that ommited any reference to God.
    More hypocritical nonsense from the Republican propaganda machine. icon_lol.gif

    http://www.americablog.com/2011/11/romney-gingrich-santorum-drop-god-from.html
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    Nov 27, 2011 11:45 PM GMT
    Just for the record, the "official" 2011 Thanksgiving address that will be referenced for the history books does have the word God in it:

    http://www.pilgrimhall.org/ThanxProc2000.htm As we gather in our communities and in our homes, around the table or near the hearth, we give thanks to each other and to God for the many kindnesses and comforts that grace our lives. Let us pause to recount the simple gifts that sustain us, and resolve to pay them forward in the year to come.


    And so will the ODS that will be referenced for all history to come.icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 27, 2011 11:55 PM GMT
    Yet more godless examples of failed presidentship without the explicit word GOD! (Creator, Lord, "Giver of Good" etc don't count)

    THANKSGIVING DAY 1868
    BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA – A PROCLAMATION
    In the year which is now drawing to its end the art, the skill, and the labor of the people of the United States have been employed with greater diligence and vigor and on broader fields than ever before, and the fruits of the earth have been gathered into the granary and the storehouse in marvelous abundance. Our highways have been lengthened, and new and prolific regions have been occupied. We are permitted to hope that long-protracted political and sectional dissensions are at no distant day to give place to returning harmony and fraternal affection throughout the Republic. Many foreign states have entered into liberal agreements with us, while nations which are far off and which heretofore have been unsocial and exclusive have become our friends.
    The annual period of rest, which we have reached in health and tranquillity, and which is crowned with so many blessings, is by universal consent a convenient and suitable one for cultivating personal piety and practicing public devotion.
    I therefore recommend that Thursday, the 26th day of November next, be set apart and observed by all the people of the United States as a day for public praise, thanksgiving, and prayer to the almighty Creator and Divine Ruler of the Universe, by whose everwatchful, merciful, and gracious providence alone states and nations, no less than families and individual men, do live and move and have their being.
    In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
    Done at the city of Washington, this 12th day of October, A.D. 1868, and of the Independence of the United States of America the ninety-third.
    ANDREW JOHNSON

    THANKSGIVING DAY - 1905
    BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - A PROCLAMATION
    When nearly three centuries ago the first settlers came to the country which has now become this great republic they fronted not only hardship and privation, but terrible risk to their lives. In those grim years the custom grew of setting apart one day in each year for a special service of thanksgiving to the Almighty for preserving the people through the changing seasons. The custom has now become national and hallowed by immemorial usage. We live in easier and more plentiful times than our forefathers, the men who with rugged strength faced the rugged days; and yet the dangers to national life as quite as great now as at any previous time in our history.
    It is eminently fitting that once a year our people should set apart a day for praise and thanksgiving to the Giver of Good, and at the same time that they express their thankfulness for the abundant mercies received should manfully acknowledge their shortcomings and pledge themselves solemnly and in good faith to strive to overcome them.
    During the past year we have been blessed with bountiful crops. Our business prosperity has been great. No other people has ever stood on as high a level of material well-being as we now stand. We are not threatened by foes from without. The foes from whom we should pray to be delivered are our own passions, appetites, and follies; and against these there is always need that we should war.
    Therefore I now set apart Thursday, the 30th day of this November, as a day of thanksgiving for the past and of prayer for the future, and on that day I ask that throughout the land the people gather in their homes and places of worship and, in rendering thanks unto the Most High for the manifold blessings of the past year, consecrate themselves to a life of cleanliness, honor, and wisdom, so that this nation may do its allotted work on the earth in a manner worthy of those who founded it and of those who preserved it.
    Done at the city of Washington, this second day of November in the year of our Lord One thousand nine Hundred and five, and of the Independence of the United States the One hundred and Thirtieth.
    THEODORE ROOSEVELT

    THANKSGIVING DAY - 1906
    BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - A PROCLAMATION
    The time of year has come when, in accordance with the wise custom of our forefathers, it becomes my duty to set aside a special day of thanksgiving and praise to the Almighty because of the blessings we have received, and of prayer that these blessings may be continued. Yet another year of widespread well-being has passed. Never before in our history or in the history of any other nation has a people enjoyed more abounding material prosperity than is ours; a prosperity so general that it should rouse in us no spirit of reckless pride, and least of all a spirit of heedless disregard of our responsibilities; but rather a sober sense of our many blessings, and a resolute purpose under Providence, not to forfeit them by any action of our own.
    Material well-being, indispensable though it is, can never be anything but the foundation of true national greatness and happiness. If we build nothing upon this foundation, then our national life will be meaningless and empty as a house where only the foundation has been laid. Upon our material well-being must be built a superstructure of individual and national life in accordance with the laws of the highest morality, or else our prosperity itself will in the long run turn out a curse instead of a blessing. We should be both reverently thankful for what we have received, and earnestly bent upon turning it into a means of grace and not of destruction.
    Accordingly, I hereby set apart Thursday, the 29th day of November next, as a day of thanksgiving and supplication, on which the people shall meet in their homes or their churches, devoutly to acknowledge all that has been given them, and to pray that they may in addition receive the power to use these gifts aright.
    In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
    Done at the city of Washington, this the 22nd day of October in the year of our Lord 1906, and of the independence of the United States 131st.

    PROCLAMATION 3944, THANKSGIVING DAY, 1969.
    BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, A PROCLAMATION
    On October 3, 1863, President Abraham Lincoln invited his fellow citizens to "set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a day of Thanksgiving…" This was the year of the battle of Gettysburg and of other major battles between Americans on American soil. To many, this call for a national day of Thanksgiving must have seemed strange, coming as it did at a time of war and bitterness.
    Yet Lincoln knew that the act of thanksgiving should not be limited to time of peace and serenity. He knew that it is precisely at those times of hardship when men most need to recognize that the Source of all good constantly bestows His blessings on mankind.
    Today, despite our material wealth and well-being, Americans face complex problems unknown before in our nation’s history. In giving thanks today, we express gratitude for past bounty and we also confidently face the challenges confronting our own nation and the world because we know we can rely on a strength greater than ourselves.
    This year, let us especially seek to rekindle in our respective hearts and minds the spirit of our first settlers who valued freedom above all else, and who found much for which to be thankful when material comforts were meager. We are, indeed, a most fortunate people.
    NOW, THEREFORE, I, RICHARD NIXON, President of the United States of America, in consonance with Section 6103 of Title 5 of the United States Code designating the fourth Thursday of November in each year as Thanksgiving Day, do hereby proclaim Thursday, November 27, 1969, as a day of national thanksgiving.
    IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twelfth day of November, in the year of our
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    Nov 28, 2011 2:18 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    The whole point of "Thanksgiving" was about giving thanks to God and that's why we celebrate it.

    Do some research kid and then get back to us.. otherewise, buzz off, the adults are talking here.
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    Nov 28, 2011 2:39 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie said... The whole point of "Thanksgiving" was about giving thanks to God and that's why we celebrate it. ...

    http://americanhistory.about.com/od/holidays/a/thanksgiving.htm
    The first actual mention of the word thanksgiving in early colonial history was not associated with the first feast described above. The first time this term was associated with a a feast or celebration was in 1623. That year the pilgrims were living through a terrible drought that continued from May through July. The pilgrims decided to spend an entire day in July fasting and praying for rain. The next day, a light rain occurred. Further, additional settlers and supplies arrived from the Netherlands. At that point, Governor Bradford proclaimed a day of Thanksgiving to offer prayers and thanks to God. However, this was by no means a yearly occurrence.

    The next recorded day of Thanksgiving occurred in 1631 when a ship full of supplies that was feared to be lost at sea actually pulled into Boston Harbor. Governor Bradford again ordered a day of Thanksgiving and prayer.


    Mock - your statement is correct. Surprising how some embarrass themselves by their ignorance.