A Sagittarian view on Religion.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 05, 2008 6:26 PM GMT
    As I was reading an astrology book on the Sagittarius I came across something that sparked a lot of thoughts to cross my mind.
    Here it is:
    Linda GoodmanEvery church and denomination, sadly without exception, sells some form of hypocrisy and moral dictatorship.
    all religions... with their delusions of infallibility- appear to spend more time and effort competing with one another in the acquistion of wealth and property then they spend in practicing compassion and forgiveness, or in spreading joy and happiness. Yet... the major religions of the world still bury their collective heads in the sands of silence, like so many silly ostriches, believing that their bloody, recorded histories of discrimination, persecution and murder are invisible. They refuse to practice what they preach, arrogantly denying their guilt. Nor do they feel any obligation to confess their own past sins, and ask forgiveness for them, in demonstration of that sweet virtue of humility that they extol as a necessity for salvation. Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised, then, that so many young people are either choosing to be "Born-again Christians" through organizations of undeniably well-meaning but misguided pilgrims (so fanatical and prejudice in subtle, petty ways themselves, they wouldn't recognize the gentle Nazarene if he stood in front of their noses)- or have been forced to turn, in intellectual and spiritual desperation, to a cynical blend of agnostic-atheism. No wonder Satanic cults and witch covens are multiplying.


    I'd like to know what you gentleman think about this view-point, because if I personally were to say what I felt about religion in general this is perhaps my thoughts perfected in written form.icon_twisted.gif Much appreciation to all those who read this and to those who reply.icon_biggrin.gif
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 05, 2008 7:09 PM GMT
    My view-point, and I know I'm going to get beatup for it, so be gentle icon_wink.gif

    I think there are waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many guys obsessed with religion on this site. Some of you seem to spend your time looking for excuses to start a religion thread icon_rolleyes.gif

    I'm able to predict them now icon_cool.gif

    As for Linda, I think she has alot of hate.

    I will make her happy, by now asking for everyone forgiveness icon_sad.gif

    Mike
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2008 12:45 AM GMT
    All you need to know about religion is it's perfectly natural. Your hard wired from birth to give consideration to supernatural possibilities. Religion formed from explanations of the unknown, adapting itself within each culture. You might say we evolved the high brain processes to imagine up Gods icon_wink.gif

    For some further insight check out: http://www.nwbotanicals.org/oak/magick/createsgod.htm

    Look no further than the common theme present in so many religion:

    Bahá'í: -- "Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee,"

    Brahmanism: -- "This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you".

    Buddhism: -- "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful."

    Christianity: -- "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."

    Confucianism: -- "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you"

    Ancient Egyptian: -- "Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do."

    Hinduism: -- "This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you."

    Humanism -- "Don't do things you wouldn't want to have done to you,"

    Islam: -- "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself."

    Jainism -- "A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated."

    Judaism:-- "What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man."

    Native American Spirituality: -- "All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One."

    Roman Pagan Religion: -- "The law imprinted on the hearts of all men is to love the members of society as themselves."

    Shinto: -- "The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form."

    Zoroastrianism: -- "Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others."

    Seeing the common theme in so many faiths across various cultures and time periods it's obvious that people can naturally develop similar values. There is plenty of evidence today that people developed religion as a natural comfort zone for defense against the unknown. And on the other hand there is zero/zilch/nada evidence FOR any religion being anything but pure hogwash.

    Time to evolve beyond the need for an imaginary crutch icon_cool.gif



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    Jun 06, 2008 1:10 AM GMT
    Trance23 saidAll you need to know about religion is it's perfectly natural. Your hard wired from birth to give consideration to supernatural possibilities.


    Of all the Trancian hogwash, this is both the hoggiest and the washiest.

    Plenty of people aren't "hard-wired" to do anything of the kind. I'm certainly not.
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    Jun 06, 2008 1:35 AM GMT
    jprichva said

    Of all the Trancian hogwash, this is both the hoggiest and the washiest.

    Plenty of people aren't "hard-wired" to do anything of the kind. I'm certainly not.


    Did you read the article by chance? icon_rolleyes.gif

    I didn't say your hard wired to believe. Your hard wired to desire to believe, the brain is already programmed for "God" experiences and beliefs. You just use common sense and knowledge to defeat your desire.
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    Jun 06, 2008 2:14 AM GMT
    Wow, just what we needed another religion thread to get people all riled up. Let me give you a snap shot of all this new thread will accomplish Paradigm. Atheists are going to jump up and down with joy and make derisive comments about non-atheists. Non-atheists are going to respond in much the same way to the atheists. Everyone who posts will of course be operating under their normal delusion that their brilliant (more delusion here) and original (even more delusion) take on the subject might actually sway the opinion of somebody on the opposite side of the argument. The discussion will go nowhere as it has in all the other eleventy billion threads on this topic. It will become one great big circular argument as it always does going on for days or even weeks before people grow tired of it for the three days before someone starts another religion thread.

    I'm going to go sell my soul to Basement Cat now.........


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    Jun 06, 2008 2:15 AM GMT
    Religion, like any vehicle or weapon, could be used only for conveying good. However, it's not so much the religion itself that is the issue in my mind. Though it is the vale of blindness and excuse for people's own actions; it's the believers themselves whom are at fault. It's when they decide that they "hear the words of their God", and insist he demands your money, absolute devotion, and the bloodshed of fellow human beings that religion becomes dangerous - in my opinion.

    I myself have no religious bindings, but am a spiritualist on a path of my own. I don't follow any prescribed medidations, scientific explanations, or naive hippylike doctrines like many people nowadays. I've been a Catholic, Christian, Wiccan, Buddhist and found what works for me in all them, and what about each doesn't work for me. I don't have statues of religious icons, don't go to church, and don't expect other people believe and do as I do because this works for me. Though I do occassionally participate in my friends religious ceremonies.

    Religious and Spiritual paths are as unique as everyone's own individuality. I can no sooner ask everyone to worship Jesus, or meditate on Buddha, than I would ask them to kill someone for me. As long as the believer isn't causing any indirect or direct harm, than their beliefs are of no consequence to me.
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    Jun 06, 2008 3:17 AM GMT
    Trance23 said
    I didn't say your hard wired to believe. Your hard wired to desire to believe, the brain is already programmed for "God" experiences and beliefs. You just use common sense and knowledge to defeat your desire.


    One statement is as empirical as the other. We're not hard-wired to WANT anything but food, sex, and shelter. And anyone who claims the brain is "programmed" for "God" is someone pushing an agenda (I'm not claiming that's you, but whatever "researcher" came up with that hooey).
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    Jun 08, 2008 3:48 PM GMT
    I welcome threads on belief, because I find the subject generally more interesting than "why can't I get a guy," "what do you think of the new...," "describe the person above you...," etc.

    Where else can you talk about religion/belief than in the Spirituality forum?

    It's a shame the subject can't be discussed without words like "hogwash," "obvious(ly)," etc.

    We are limited beings. The occasional experience of the interconnectedness of life and the universe is not (in my opinion) something to be denigrated.

    I also believe that how a person chooses to make sense of the thoughts and sensations that confront him in the experience of life on earth is personal and worthy of at least tolerance.

    A little humility?

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    Jun 10, 2008 12:19 AM GMT
    MikePhil saidMy view-point, and I know I'm going to get beatup for it, so be gentle icon_wink.gif

    I think there are waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many guys obsessed with religion on this site. Some of you seem to spend your time looking for excuses to start a religion thread icon_rolleyes.gif

    I'm able to predict them now icon_cool.gif

    As for Linda, I think she has alot of hate.

    I will make her happy, by now asking for everyone forgiveness icon_sad.gif

    Mike


    I'm not obsessed with religion hence the reason i'm agnostic.
    I don't see why you think Linda has alot of hate as i said this was wrote in a Sagittarians view she happens to be an Aries.

    I think Trance23 is right somewhat though for me i've found that almost every religion is the same just certain aspects of them tend to differ, names of the god(s) are changed along with the savior of man, and the end of the world is given a different name.

    Lol i can't say how much I got to laughing after I read your post RBY71. Though I do see what you mean.
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    Jun 10, 2008 12:45 AM GMT
    CarlosGringo said I also believe that how a person chooses to make sense of the thoughts and sensations that confront him in the experience of life on earth is personal and worthy of at least tolerance.


    I do believe in tolerance.
    I deny no one the choice to believe whatever they wish.

    But people who speak of such things as apirituality demand, generally, far more than tolerance. They demand respect for their beliefs. And that is not warranted.

    Where do people get the notion that these ideas or feelings are beyond dissection or criticism? Talk about humility---I can think of nothing quite as arrogant as that.
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    Jun 10, 2008 7:01 PM GMT
    jprichva said[quote][cite]CarlosGringo said[/cite] I also believe that how a person chooses to make sense of the thoughts and sensations that confront him in the experience of life on earth is personal and worthy of at least tolerance.


    I do believe in tolerance.
    I deny no one the choice to believe whatever they wish.
    ..... They demand respect for their beliefs. And that is not warranted.
    [/quote]

    with your own words, you disrespect your own believe. If you do not respect other's believe, despite how foolish or wise it could be. why would anyone respect your believe, despite how sincere you hold truth to tolerance?


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2008 9:19 PM GMT
    If a person opens their belief to criticism and/or analysis, I think that can be done in a way that is both kind and cognizant of one's own limitations.

    I disagree with you on ... is far different from

    The idea that ... is bullshit.
    You'd have to be an idiot to think that ...

    With age, the universe of philosophical/spiritual/metaphysical things I know for sure has gotten much smaller.

    That's one reason why English without the verb 'to be' interests me.
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    Jun 12, 2008 9:25 PM GMT
    Oh yes and how religion poisons everything.......
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    Jul 23, 2008 7:19 PM GMT
    MikePhil saidMy view-point, and I know I'm going to get beatup for it, so be gentle icon_wink.gif

    I think there are waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many guys obsessed with religion on this site. Some of you seem to spend your time looking for excuses to start a religion thread icon_rolleyes.gif

    I'm able to predict them now icon_cool.gif

    As for Linda, I think she has alot of hate.

    I will make her happy, by now asking for everyone forgiveness icon_sad.gif

    Mike


    I dont know about Linda,
    but I think its safe to say,
    some peoples opinions dont ever go past their own jadiced view of the world,
    take mike here for example
    in his attempt to speak his mind he actually unraveled how deeply polarized he is to turning everything into a dishonesty challenge.

    poor linda couldn't compete with that
    since her charts follow stars
    and mikes follow threads on the board..


    icon_smile.gif
    nice to meet you mike
    im steven.

    im sure we will have our truly defining moments
    with or without the need to speak our minds..

    steven
    gnosis
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    Jul 23, 2008 7:23 PM GMT
    ps mike

    I spoke to a farmer today
    He said he saw an eagle with a SERPENT clutched in its talons..
    This Must Be A Sign From Apollo!!

    lol
  • ROYCE13

    Posts: 315

    Jul 23, 2008 7:49 PM GMT
    OH OH OH, I do not know why I am responding to this thread, but I would rather give some food for thought, religion is mans take on the spiritual world, hence the
    bitterness, judgements, wars etc... just look at the responses here and to the other religious threads, I am glad to review them, it is always predictable and only some times insightful. From most of the responses on these topics, I would be safe to infer that most do not really have a spiritual life, not the same as believing in spirituality. As I have said before, we are mind, body and spirit, and if we fed each of these elements daily, then we would have better lives, better conversations regarding this area and a better world, even if we had different beliefs. I go to church weekly, yes church is a religion based entity. Yes it is organized, but it has to, but the organized element is misinterpreted. Each of us is in charge of our spirituality just like each of us is in charge of our mind and body. Besides going to my church, I visit other churches with friends. When I travel the US and the world, I go to churches of my belief to experience worship with people of different cultures and I also visit other types of churches. To know a bit of other religious and spiritual beliefs help you to see people as humans. If how you see the world, humans and spiritual things do not grow as you grow then you are missing out. Just as you grow your mind with education, reading, etc..., just as you grow with your body, exercise, sports, weights, you see you mind and body change and alter, exposure to mind and body elements allow you to grow, pick up new techniques, decide not to include
    certain things, you make the choice. But when it comes to the spirit man, most people do not feed it, they then cannot see people beyond the image presented, they say they forgive, but hold a grudge, they hate etc... The sad thing is , people miss out on the greatness of life and greater things of the mind and body, because if we actually fed the spirit part of us first, then the mind and body, we would all be a better, happier individual and society and world. I would challenge you to all take just a week to do this on your own, and see the difference it makes in your life. But it is work, just like getting abs and a great looking chest is work, just like getting a degree at a university is work, but since it looks intangible to most, most do not work at it. This may be longwinded, and serious in sound, but being spiritual does not mean a life of of no fun.
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    Aug 15, 2008 2:58 AM GMT
    As subjective as it was, I tend to agree with the first half of that comment.
    I'm not so sure, however, that younger people are seeking cults or other underworld faiths as an alternative to otherwise hateful, organized religions.

    Apathy, I'm afraid, is the more common manifestation.

    Incidentally, I'm curious as to what makes those comments representative of Sagittarians.
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    Aug 15, 2008 8:08 AM GMT
    stevengnosis saidps mike

    I spoke to a farmer today
    He said he saw an eagle with a SERPENT clutched in its talons..
    This Must Be A Sign From Apollo!!

    lol


    NOOOOoo... That's OBVIOUSLY a sign from Quetzalcoatl. It means you have to build a city on that spot.

    Seriously, do it, or Quetzalcoatl will get you.

    And he is like a FLYING FEATHERED SNAKE THAT CONTROLS THE WIND!

    fwooosh! (dramatic sounds tm!)
  • dcarm

    Posts: 291

    Aug 15, 2008 8:26 AM GMT
    I'm ignoring the fact that we have yet another religion thread.

    What does astrology achieve? It seeks to ascribe control of our lives to the alignment of planets, or more commonly the Zodiac Sign, at our birth.

    Apart from the (what should be obvious) parallel with other Religion and superstition. There are a number of reasons it seems improbable, what forces are actually at work when this determination is made by the planets?

    Why does Pluto still feature when it is not considered a planet, and if it should be counted, what about the new plutoids that have been discovered such as Ceres?

    As for the Zodiac Sign thing, does anyone else think it's strange that 1/12 of the population gets the same prediction?

    Just thought I should point these things out. And she mentions nothing in particular about a Sagittarian, maybe because I think astrology's a load of hogwash I'm missing the obvious Sagittarian qualities.
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    Aug 15, 2008 9:42 AM GMT
    royce13 wrote:

    "As I have said before, we are mind, body and spirit, and if we fed each of these elements daily, then we would have better lives, better conversations regarding this area and a better world, even if we had different beliefs."

    Some of us already have great lives.

    Moralists (I believe they call themselves Christian warriors) complain about the materialism and the culture (particularly here in the US) and say that biblical ways, God, and Jesus Christ are the answer to ward off materialism and the culture. However, one can reject materialism and parts of the culture without replacing them with what I believe to be nonsense. I don't like violent movies, so I simply don't watch violent movies. I don't tell others that they cannot watch violent movies. I don't like profanity on the radio or in TV shows or in movies and when I come across profanity in any of the above, I change the channel or turn the radio or the TV off. I don't tell others that they cannot listen to or watch shows containing profanity.

    As an athiest, I am quite happy in my little life with my spouse and our enjoyment of a couple of old TV shows (like Golden Girls and Frasier) and consume only what I want and nothing more. I don't need the followers of what I believe to be mythology and superstition to tell me what I can and cannot do or what I should or should not be doing! They believe however, that they have that right to tell all others how others should live and more importantly, that others would be happier with what they're selling.

    Happiness comes from within and we should all make life as good as it can be because once we're dead that's it. It puzzles me why people spend so much time worrying about an afterlife instead of improving the one that they're in now.

    (All, do you see how I was able to reject beliefs without hating on believers?)
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    Aug 15, 2008 12:05 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    Trance23 saidAll you need to know about religion is it's perfectly natural. Your hard wired from birth to give consideration to supernatural possibilities.


    Of all the Trancian hogwash, this is both the hoggiest and the washiest.

    Plenty of people aren't "hard-wired" to do anything of the kind. I'm certainly not.


    And One did not say it!icon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
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    Aug 15, 2008 7:03 PM GMT
    Since when did Agnosticism and Atheism become cynical?

    icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 15, 2008 10:57 PM GMT
    Sedative saidSince when did Agnosticism and Atheism become cynical?

    icon_rolleyes.gif

    Well said! Or asked, rather.
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    Aug 18, 2008 2:22 PM GMT

    Forum> Spirituality.

    I came here expecting religious threads, and see people here complaining or making snide remarks about religious threads.

    What the....?!?

    May I gently suggest that any who don't want to participate productively simply enjoy the many other forums on this site that are more to your liking?

    Suppression flies in the face of what forums are for.