"Internalized Homophobia"/"Self-hating gay"

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    Nov 29, 2011 12:21 AM GMT
    These terms piss me off. Mainly because I've been called them both (often jokingly by straight male friends, but sometimes seriously by other homos).

    I don't understand why having a lack of interest in stereotypical gay culture makes me a homo homophobe. I have zero interest in Gaga, shopping, dancing, foam parties, etc... but I still love sex with guys. Clearly the loving sex with guys is what makes me a homo, not the "culture." If a straight guy doesn't love sports or hiking or camping that doesn't make him a "self-hating straight."

    Why are gays so quick to judge guys like me who simply aren't interested in all that gay stuff? Why do they insist that it's some sort of internalized homophobia. Trust me, I'm perfectly comfortable with my sexuality. But I think my sexuality only defines that aspect of me: with whom I have sex or can fall in love. Not what music or clothes I like, or what clubs or parties I'm interested in.
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    Nov 29, 2011 12:23 AM GMT
    There's a lot of hate in the gay community, not having a taste for something is one thing, being completely intolerant of others is another.

    It's not something that you should HAVE to deal with, but I think as a community, we all could do being a little more tolerant of one another.
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    Nov 29, 2011 12:25 AM GMT
    There is a difference between a comment like "I dont like to party, do meth, dance, lady gaga, fru fru drinks, so one and so forth" and "I hate fem men! They make all gay men look bad! I never want to sleep with a fem gay man because I am a man and men act like men and if i wanted a vag I would sleep with a women not a fem gay men!"

    See the difference? One is attacking a person the other is defining yourself. Gay men are very diverse, to simply say everyone loves gaga is, well, not true.
  • JP85257

    Posts: 3284

    Nov 29, 2011 12:27 AM GMT
    Chainers saidThere is a difference between a comment like "I dont like to party, do meth, dance, lady gaga, fru fru drinks, so one and so forth" and "I hate fem men! They make all gay men look bad! I never want to sleep with a fem gay man because I am a man and men act like men and if i wanted a vag I would sleep with a women not a fem gay men!"

    See the difference? One is attacking a person the other is defining yourself. Gay men are very diverse, to simply say everyone loves gaga is, well, not true.

    This is true.

    I also am horribly intolerant. I dont expect to be tolerated by EVERYONE because I refuse to tolerate everyone.
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    Nov 29, 2011 12:28 AM GMT
    Is there a difference between what you said and "I'm not physically or emotionally attracted to fem guys and would never date one"?

    Because I see that and "fem guys make gays look bad" as two very different things, yet they always seem to be linked together and disparaged together.
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    Nov 29, 2011 12:29 AM GMT
    jpBITCHva saidIt's not disliking Gaga or dancing that makes someone "self-loathing", it's the feeling that there is some kind of superiority in not liking these things. This is often coded with remarks like "Not into the gay scene".

    Fact: the straight world doesn't make all these fine distinctions between various of our sub-groups. You suck cock? You like to fuck or be fucked? It doesn't matter to them whether you spend the rest of your time working on your truck or designing tutus, if you enjoy sex with men you're just a faggot like the rest of us. Which is why the arguments about how if we tone down our pride parades or persuade the femmes to butch it up so the straights will like us more are utter hogwash.


    A lot of reasons why people dont like these things, because people dont hate us because of pride parades, but pride parades remind them about us.
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    Nov 29, 2011 12:31 AM GMT
    thenes saidIs there a difference between what you said and "I'm not physically or emotionally attracted to fem guys and would never date one"?

    Because I see that and "fem guys make gays look bad" as two very different things, yet they always seem to be linked together and disparaged together.


    They are not the same. People who dont like fem guys tend to lump together comments like "if I wanted a real man I would date a real man not some guy who wants to be a women!" which is very intolerant.

    Its a wishy washy area. Their are many things about the gay community I dont connect with or like, and there are parts I do. Its all preference man. If you have an aura of superiority due to not being into the scene, people will think of you as self hating.
  • JP85257

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    Nov 29, 2011 12:31 AM GMT
    jpBITCHva said
    JP85257 said
    I also am horribly intolerant. I dont expect to be tolerated by EVERYONE because I refuse to tolerate everyone.

    You're also a jackass, which is way more key to understanding you than whatever you choose to do with your penis.

    You have also never dealt with me in person and I have people on here that enjoy my company. Try again.
  • JP85257

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    Nov 29, 2011 12:32 AM GMT
    Chainers said
    thenes saidIs there a difference between what you said and "I'm not physically or emotionally attracted to fem guys and would never date one"?

    Because I see that and "fem guys make gays look bad" as two very different things, yet they always seem to be linked together and disparaged together.


    They are not the same. People who dont like fem guys tend to lump together comments like "if I wanted a real man I would date a real man not some guy who wants to be a women!" which is very intolerant.

    Its a wishy washy area. Their are many things about the gay community I dont connect with or like, and there are parts I do. Its all preference man. If you have an aura of superiority due to not being into the scene, people will think of you as self hating.

    This.
  • JP85257

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    Nov 29, 2011 12:34 AM GMT
    jpBITCHva said
    JP85257 said
    jpBITCHva said
    JP85257 said
    I also am horribly intolerant. I dont expect to be tolerated by EVERYONE because I refuse to tolerate everyone.

    You're also a jackass, which is way more key to understanding you than whatever you choose to do with your penis.

    You have also never dealt with me in person and I have people on here that enjoy my company. Try again.

    Well, you're right, I've never met you, and I propose never to alter that situation.

    Thats fine, sir. Like I said. I never have expected everyone to like me.
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    Nov 29, 2011 12:40 AM GMT
    Chainers saidPeople who dont like fem guys tend to lump together comments like "if I wanted a real man I would date a real man not some guy who wants to be a women!" which is very intolerant.


    See? This is what I'm talking about. I would never say something charged like that. But it seems that the gay community is quick to assume that's what I and guys like me think/believe. Just because there are a few masculine-only jackasses out there doesn't mean the majority of us are similarly dim.

    Chainers saidIf you have an aura of superiority due to not being into the scene, people will think of you as self hating.

    And that's the issue: I don't. I DON'T think I'm better than a fem guy just because I'm masculine. It's a preference thing. Yet simply stating that preference in exactly that same way gets one labeled as "self hating gay." It's frustrating.
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    Nov 29, 2011 12:47 AM GMT
    jpBITCHva saidIt's not disliking Gaga or dancing that makes someone "self-loathing", it's the feeling that there is some kind of superiority in not liking these things. This is often coded with remarks like "Not into the gay scene".

    See... I often say I'm not into the gay scene. Because I'm not. I have no interest in it whatsoever. How is that code for feeling superior? Similarly, I'm into biking and a bicycle advocate (not atypical here in Portalnd) but I'm definitely not into the "bike scene" (which is a big deal in Portland). That doesn't make me a self-loathing bikey person or feel I'm superior to them, I'm just not into the scene.

    There's a lot of "you're either with us or against us" attitudes, I find.
  • Brick_n_Lace

    Posts: 185

    Nov 29, 2011 12:49 AM GMT
    Wtf who doesn't like to shop?! You don't like buying things you want? and can you explain a foam party to me? Please tell me its not the kind of foam I'm thinking? I'm sorry wait what was the question *goes back to reread*
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    Nov 29, 2011 12:51 AM GMT
    I recently got lectured at work for not wearing gay underwear.

    I get my underwear at Costco; I must be straight.
  • Brick_n_Lace

    Posts: 185

    Nov 29, 2011 12:54 AM GMT
    jpBITCHva saidIt's not disliking Gaga or dancing that makes someone "self-loathing", it's the feeling that there is some kind of superiority in not liking these things. This is often coded with remarks like "Not into the gay scene".

    Fact: the straight world doesn't make all these fine distinctions between various of our sub-groups. You suck cock? You like to fuck or be fucked? It doesn't matter to them whether you spend the rest of your time working on your truck or designing tutus, if you enjoy sex with men you're just a faggot like the rest of us. Which is why the arguments about how if we tone down our pride parades or persuade the femmes to butch it up so the straights will like us more are utter hogwash.


    Ita wow I don't even have to use brain cells in this thread, you and chainers have totally held it down. Ugh chainers I hate that first fem hater qoute it always makes me cringe lol
  • JP85257

    Posts: 3284

    Nov 29, 2011 12:56 AM GMT
    FrostedFlakes saidI recently got lectured at work for not wearing gay underwear.

    I get my underwear at Costco; I must be straight.

    Nothing wrong with that as long as YOU are comfortable.
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    Nov 29, 2011 1:17 AM GMT
    thenes said

    There's a lot of "you're either with us or against us" attitudes, I find.


    +1 Totally agree. People are too easily offended and many of them judgemental to those of us who don't identify with most of gay culture. I recently lost a good friend because of this. Because of my choices and our differences, he kept calling me a homophobe or told me I was in denial and that kind of stuff. I said no, it's just me.
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    Nov 29, 2011 1:24 AM GMT
    You're not alone. There are many of us who are hetero-centric--i.e., the only thing we like about being gay is m2m sex; everything else is immaterial or uninteresting. In all other respects, we're "hetero." If that means we're "homophobic," then be it.
  • JP85257

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    Nov 29, 2011 1:26 AM GMT
    DOMINUS saidYou're not alone. There are many of us who are hetero-centric--i.e., the only thing we like about being gay is m2m sex; everything else is immaterial or uninteresting. In all other respects, we're "hetero." If that means we're "homophobic," then be it.

    So the fact that I catch shit for being mechanically inclined should mean nothing to me?
  • Another_Jerem...

    Posts: 355

    Nov 29, 2011 6:35 AM GMT
    jpBITCHva said
    thenes saidIs there a difference between what you said and "I'm not physically or emotionally attracted to fem guys and would never date one"?

    Because I see that and "fem guys make gays look bad" as two very different things, yet they always seem to be linked together and disparaged together.

    I don't know if that question is for me, but I'll do my best to answer it.

    Technically, no, they're not linked. But here's the thing about "attraction": Too many guys think it's something immutable---they're born liking A & F type guys and they'll never like anything else. But that "preference" was learned. We don't have a gene that tells us to like A & F guys. And the point is, your (or anyone's) set of attractors may change over time if they have any reason to. They also may not. But no one ever discovers this by automatically disqualifying a segment of the population offhand.


    Well said.
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    Nov 29, 2011 6:40 AM GMT
    +1, I've never even been to a gay bar. Would like to sometime, but I'm fine if I never go either.
  • iceman82

    Posts: 76

    Nov 29, 2011 6:55 AM GMT
    It all comes down to a simple human trait: attack what you don't understand. Some gay guys really can't understand that it's possible to be gay and not like Gaga, or dancing all night, or shoe shopping... and so they deal with that ignorance by putting a label on it and calling you self-hating. These are people whose opinions you shouldn't concern yourself with. If they can't make the effort to understand the difference, then they don't deserve your time and effort.
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    Nov 29, 2011 6:58 AM GMT
    I think internalized homophobia is something almost any gay person in western culture has to contend with. I think we can all recall a moment when we were embarrassed about being gay or intentionally restricted ourselves from doing something for fear of being noticed as gay.

    Usually the term refers specifically to people who have an active homophobia. The people who doubt themselves, and their sexuality to the point they become so entrenched with homosexuality as negative they cannot function within the label and certainly not identify with it.

    The latter part is where the confusion comes in, because people make a blanket assumption that anyone who does not identify with gay culture is also rejecting homosexuality.. which is clearly not the case for you.
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    Nov 29, 2011 7:07 AM GMT
    Whenever gays start saying a Latin mass over how masculine they are, I like to think that chances are they love to cook or that they have an immensely cute dog or that there's that one ABBA song that always gets them. Everyone's got something, ok?

    icon_rolleyes.gif

    Get over yourselves. Life's hard enough.
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    Nov 29, 2011 7:16 AM GMT
    Trollileo saidBy definition I'm a self-hating gay and an internal homophobic. I'm ashamed of being gay and wish I were straight; I'm not trying to be straight, I just understand I'm not and I'm dealing with it and moving on around that. I also don't like feminine men very much. I'll be friends with them, but nothing kills my sex drive faster than that stereotypical gay voice we all know and love so well. I know some people can't help it and it comes naturally. I just can't stand it, though. I passed out next to a friend of mine and when I woke up the next morning to his voice (this made me positive any possible relationship wouldn't go anywhere) I almost threw up. I'm such a shallow asshole...


    And yeah you are a shallow asshole. My voice isn't super obvious but it's obvious enough. I've tried to please people like you by talking differently and not only do I end up not fooling anyone, I make myself look stupid on a regular basis.
    I mean really..
    icon_confused.gif