Irony in gay pride parades!

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    Jun 08, 2008 5:53 PM GMT
    Does anyone else see the irony that we, the gays, have a gay pride parade to encourage equality when the fact that we have our OWN parade and celebrate being gay is in itself not equal to the masses and promotes segregation within?

    Do we subconsciously retain segregation so we have something to fight for?
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    Jun 08, 2008 6:32 PM GMT
    I don't think it is ironic, at least no more so than any other community who shares a common history/ethnicity/belief that decides to have a celebration where they can come together (no pun) and have fun.

    I know some people (even a number of gays) that would agree that having a pride parade is counterproductive to mainstream acceptance and that it is inappropriate. My position is that every day is a straight day in the world so why not let us have measly day one out of the 365 they get for all the bullshit we still have to put up with from society on a regular basis.
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    Jun 08, 2008 6:39 PM GMT
    But that’s the mindset, “let us have one measly day!” Key word being “us.” That's segregation. You want yours b/c they have theirs! If you feel every day is a straight day then instead of taking 1 day for ourselves lets live amongst everyone of all differences as if there is no difference, the definition of equal, and create a society that is actually equal and together WITH our differences! Not the “ you got yours, so I’ll take mine” idea.
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    Jun 08, 2008 6:46 PM GMT
    georgiaboy saidBut that’s the mindset, “let us have one measly day!” Key word being “us.” That's segregation. You want yours b/c they have theirs! If you feel every day is a straight day then instead of taking 1 day for ourselves lets live amongst everyone of all differences as if there is no difference, the definition of equal, and create a society that is actually equal and together WITH our differences! Not the “ you got yours, so I’ll take mine” idea.


    I've never thought the wiping out of all uniqueness in the pursuit of total equality to be a very worthy goal, outside of the legal sense. Suppressing that which does make us different so that we can be one content homogeneous population isn't an attractive goal IMO. I could also be accused of being segregationist because I go to Greek festivals (being half Greek myself). I don't consider that any more or less a part of me than being gay

  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 08, 2008 6:49 PM GMT
    I will never understand this thing they call "gay pride"

    Edit: I have removed my comment as TigerTim was offended by it.

    Mike
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    Jun 08, 2008 6:54 PM GMT
    This isn’t a topic of right or wrong. And your Greek festival is not fighting for equality, instead you are just simply celebrating the uniqueness that you are so proud, and should be, have! But the basis of a gay pride parade is for equality. On that note we’re not promoting equality but segregation. If we want to celebrate or own uniqueness as a gay couture I think we do that and should continue, threw our media, music, sports, and the arts. But to say we want equality with that idea at the core while selecting a day for ourselves…. That’s contradictory.
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    Jun 08, 2008 7:21 PM GMT
    georgiaboy saidThis isn’t a topic of right or wrong. And your Greek festival is not fighting for equality, instead you are just simply celebrating the uniqueness that you are so proud, and should be, have! But the basis of a gay pride parade is for equality. On that note we’re not promoting equality but segregation. If we want to celebrate or own uniqueness as a gay couture I think we do that and should continue, threw our media, music, sports, and the arts. But to say we want equality with that idea at the core while selecting a day for ourselves…. That’s contradictory.


    Not anymore would be a more accurate description, IMO. Ethnicities almost always clustered when coming to the US as it wasn't always the most welcoming place. They did so to concentrate their economic and social power against those who would do them harm.

    Anyway, most gays I know do not equate the pride parade itself with fighting for a cause. It is mostly considered just something to have a good time at. Working for legal equality and social acceptance is much more effectively accomplished through other means. Do I think a pride parade is particularly damaging to either of those pursuits? No.
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    Jun 08, 2008 9:13 PM GMT
    Gay Pride is about visibility. The necessity to force the larger society to accept that LGBTQ exists. People could not be gay in older times. Yes, they were gay, but they couldn't openly exist as an LGBT person. So of course when you overcome that emotional/psychological/societal hurdle, you're gonna throw a damned parade and celebrate.

    Those of us who've grown up/come of age in the past 20-30 years really cannot know what it was like to have the love that dare not speak its name. The idea of a pride parade or festival might seem passe when you have all sorts of gay on tv and elsewhere. But pride parades were/are about being out and ok with it. The whole I'm here, I'm queer, deal with it, coz it ain't gonna change.
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    Jun 08, 2008 9:32 PM GMT
    georgiaboy> Does anyone else see the irony that we, the gays, have a gay pride parade to encourage equality when the fact that we have our OWN parade and celebrate being gay is in itself not equal to the masses and promotes segregation within?

    The question is based on several false premises.

    Non-gays (i.e. straight people) are welcome at gay pride events, so there is no "segregation" being "promoted".

    Furthermore, what you say echoes of "separate is not equal", but that pertains to state initiatives. No one would be happy if we lumped together the Irish Pride parade with the Gay pride parade and others. It would just undermine each piece of the salad bowl which makes up society (salad bowl, not melting pot).


    MikePhil> I will never understand this thing they call "gay pride"

    There is nothing wrong with celebrating diversity or being proud of who you are. Note that pride is the alternative to the status quo ante - shame.
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    Jun 08, 2008 9:41 PM GMT
    celebrations are just excuses to get drunk for most people (not all people, and not all celebrations albeit). good side effect is that some straight people get occasional [re] exposure to the fact that we exist. so, think of it as carnival for gay people (now, that's ironic).
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    Jun 08, 2008 9:45 PM GMT
    My favorite part about the WHOLE thing is when the local TV News interviews the one guy who is clad in PRACTICALLY nothing, and we KNOW he's on something, and he's talking about we want to be treated like everyone else and be equal and yadda yadda yadda! Dude, he's in a TooToo with a G-String and on Roller Skates!!! Come one!!!
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    Jun 08, 2008 9:59 PM GMT
    I'm tempted to offer extended commentary, as those who have seen some of my older posts will know I have strong feelings on this, but I think you worded it so exceptionally well that I can't add much.

    More (gay) people wish me a "happy pride" than have ever wished me a Happy New Year. Have you encountered those (gay) folks who think that because you question the concept of pride parades, you are clearly "self hating"?

    In short, ABSOLUTELY yes.

    georgiaboy said

    Do we subconsciously retain segregation so we have something to fight for?
  • DiverScience

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    Jun 08, 2008 10:04 PM GMT
    georgiaboy saidDoes anyone else see the irony that we, the gays, have a gay pride parade to encourage equality when the fact that we have our OWN parade and celebrate being gay is in itself not equal to the masses and promotes segregation within?

    Do we subconsciously retain segregation so we have something to fight for?




    Does anyone get tired of people whining about pride parades? Every bleeping year. If you don't like it, don't go.
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    Jun 08, 2008 10:11 PM GMT
    DiverScience said
    Does anyone get tired of people whining about pride parades? Every bleeping year. If you don't like it, don't go.



    TOTALLY!!!
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 08, 2008 10:13 PM GMT
    caesarea4 saidgeorgiaboy>

    MikePhil> I will never understand this thing they call "gay pride"

    There is nothing wrong with celebrating diversity or being proud of who you are. Note that pride is the alternative to the status quo ante - shame.


    I need to be honest here first. I have never been to a gay pride parade. All I know is what I've seen in pictures, and on TV, and what I have seen would not encourage me in anyway to even consider going.

    Yeah, nothing wrong with celebrating, and being proud, and I certainly have no shame, but I do not have to parade along a street half naked to do that. I cant see how that could further the cause of gays. I honestly think it is the opposite it does.

    Maybe you guys can educate me on it icon_question.gif

    One question I would like to ask, have any straight groups or individuals ever been asked to take part icon_question.gif

    Mike
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 08, 2008 10:26 PM GMT
    DiverScience said[quote][cite]georgiaboy said[/cite]Does anyone get tired of people whining about pride parades? Every bleeping year. If you don't like it, don't go.



    Does anyone get tired of people whining about Christians? Every bleeping other day icon_rolleyes.gif
  • DiverScience

    Posts: 1426

    Jun 08, 2008 10:46 PM GMT
    MikePhil said[quote]
    Does anyone get tired of people whining about Christians? Every bleeping other day icon_rolleyes.gif


    You might want to make this comment in a relevant thread to someone who start whining posts about Christians...
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 08, 2008 10:52 PM GMT
    DiverScience said[quote][cite]MikePhil said[/cite][quote]
    Does anyone get tired of people whining about Christians? Every bleeping other day icon_rolleyes.gif


    You might want to make this comment in a relevant thread to someone who start whining posts about Christians...[/quote]


    icon_lol.gif I'll be waiting icon_lol.gif
  • Timbales

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    Jun 08, 2008 10:52 PM GMT
    I see straight Pride parades quite often in the summer.

    Most other people call them weddings.
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 08, 2008 10:57 PM GMT
    Timberoo saidI see straight Pride parades quite often in the summer.

    Most other people call them weddings.



    I have been invited to some of those. How many straights are invited to the gays one?
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    Jun 08, 2008 11:01 PM GMT
    Disclaimer: I'm just biased because the term "gay pride" was coined here in Ann Arbor. (:


    MikePhil> have any straight groups or individuals ever been asked to take part

    YES. One that usually gets the largest cheer is PFLAG.


    MikePhil> I have never been to a gay pride parade. All I know is what I've seen in pictures, and on TV, and what I have seen would not encourage me in anyway to even consider going. Yeah, nothing wrong with celebrating, and being proud, and I certainly have no shame, but I do not have to parade along a street half naked to do that.

    I've never been to one in Ireland, but I suspect they're more or less the same as here. Which means that most people are not "half naked" (though obviously on a hot summer day some will take off their shirts).

    I'd say that in the last 10 years news coverage in the US has gotten better, so they don't ONLY focus on the most extreme and outrageous sights. Maybe in Ireland they still do and thus you have the wrong idea?

    I'd recommend you go to one and see for yourself... and then you can have an informed opinion.

    You just might find yourself having a good time along with everyone else. (: I certainly hope so.
  • Timbales

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    Jun 08, 2008 11:02 PM GMT
    MikePhil said[quote][cite]Timberoo said[/cite]I see straight Pride parades quite often in the summer.

    Most other people call them weddings.



    I have been invited to some of those. How many straights are invited to the gays one?[/quote]

    Do you feel one must be invited if to go to the St Patrick's Day Parade if they are not Irish?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 08, 2008 11:15 PM GMT
    It's called "Pride" in response to those who would like us to feel shame. That's what some must hate the most about many of us - that we're unashamed. I'm glad there's people out there who are "in your face" about being gay. Good for them. We get straight shoved in our faces everyday. Too bad for some people if "pride" makes them squirm like the worms they are.
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    Jun 08, 2008 11:38 PM GMT
    Let remember who defined "us." It was straight society who excluded "us" and made us a group. We wouldnt have to have a PRIDE parade, if society hadnt done its best to make us feel bad about ourselves.
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    Jun 09, 2008 12:42 AM GMT
    Well I thought I was the first one to post to this forum topic this afternoon, but it got lost somehow.

    RunningintheCity, Caslon4000 and McGay made the points I initially made.

    I would like to add that Toronto's pride parade is now very popular with straights, almost too popular for some gays tastes. Also there are a lot of areas of society where gays are still ostracized, but are now starting to grudgingly accept them.

    The traditional macho careers such as police, firefighting and commercial airline pilots now have representatives marching in the gay pride parade in Toronto.

    In 1987 when I went to my first parade it was mainly gay bars, PFLAG, AIDS organizations, and of course drag queens. Things have really changed in 20 years.

    The pride parade to me is demonstrating pride in accepting oneself and living a productive and healthy life, despite the odds and the negative messages certain sections of society can throw at one. To me it has never been "pride" in being gay. That is kind of silly, like being proud to be white or have brown eyes.