Obama game of staying hands off blaming Congress backfiring - why the people want to fire him

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    Dec 07, 2011 2:50 AM GMT
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203833104577072812757977898.html?mod=ITP_opinion_0

    Peggy Noonan, Wall Street Journal, December 3, 2011

    excerpt:

    Gallup. Obama down. Forty-three percent approval. Lower than Jimmy Carter at this point. The Democratic spin: This is good, with the economy so bad you'd think his numbers would be lower! Actually you'd think an incumbent nobody likes would be exactly where Jimmy Carter was before he lost in a landslide. More to the point, the president's numbers went downward, not upward. Why? Because the congressional super committee failed to cut $1.2 trillion out of $44 trillion in projected spending.

    Once again the president thought he was playing a shrewd game: The collapse of the super committee would serve his political purposes. Once again he misjudged.

    What has occurred is an exact repeat of the summer's debt-ceiling fiasco. Then the president summoned a crisis, thinking people would blame it on the Republicans. Instead they blamed Washington, which is to say him, because he owns Washington. Immediately his numbers fell. As they did again this week.

    The only way to win America right now is to govern selflessly and seriously. His top advisers, those knowing, winking bumpkins, cannot see this. America is in crisis. It knows it's in crisis. It cannot tolerate the old moves anymore, the "every problem is just an issue to be manipulated for gain." The president was once seen as an idealist. He was hired to be an idealist! His ignorant shrewdness, his small-time cleverness—it just won't do. Nobody wants it. It's why people want to fire him.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 07, 2011 2:55 AM GMT
    Your premise is incorrect. I DO want it and him.... and I'm a person, thus your
    commentary isn't correct John... if you claimed "the majority" don't want him (that would be open to disagreement), but to make the claim you do isn't correct.

    icon_wink.gif


    And it's Peggy Noonan, give me a break...
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    Dec 07, 2011 2:59 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidYour premise is incorrect. I DO want it and him.... and I'm a person, thus your
    commentary isn't correct John... if you claimed "the majority" don't want him (that would be open to disagreement), but to make the claim you do isn't correct.

    icon_wink.gif

    And it's Peggy Noonan, give me a break...

    Well the "nobody" was an editorial exaggeration. Certainly there are some who disagree, who appreciate, ignore, or fail to understand the economic pressures in Greece that could eventually impact us. Who like class warfare, who like a President who kisses Putin's butt, only to have Putin kick his butt in return.
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    Dec 07, 2011 3:10 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidYour premise is incorrect. I DO want it and him.... and I'm a person, thus your
    commentary isn't correct John... if you claimed "the majority" don't want him (that would be open to disagreement), but to make the claim you do isn't correct.

    icon_wink.gif

    And it's Peggy Noonan, give me a break...

    Well the "nobody" was an editorial exaggeration. Certainly there are some who disagree, who appreciate, ignore, or fail to understand the economic pressures in Greece that could eventually impact us. Who like class warfare, who like a President who kisses Putin's butt, only to have Putin kick his butt in return.


    This time next year that loser community organizer sleezy lawyer obama will be packing his bags and heading back to chicago. At this point it doesn't matter who the GOP puts up.
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    Dec 07, 2011 3:19 AM GMT
    CHRISTOPHER34 said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidYour premise is incorrect. I DO want it and him.... and I'm a person, thus your
    commentary isn't correct John... if you claimed "the majority" don't want him (that would be open to disagreement), but to make the claim you do isn't correct.

    icon_wink.gif

    And it's Peggy Noonan, give me a break...

    Well the "nobody" was an editorial exaggeration. Certainly there are some who disagree, who appreciate, ignore, or fail to understand the economic pressures in Greece that could eventually impact us. Who like class warfare, who like a President who kisses Putin's butt, only to have Putin kick his butt in return.

    This time next year that loser community organizer sleezy lawyer obama will be packing his bags and heading back to chicago. At this point it doesn't matter who the GOP puts up.

    Honestly, there are different opinions on that. Some think Obama is so vulnerable that anyone will beat him, and Gingrich with more conservative credentials would be best. Others are not so sure it is a slam dunk. They realize Obama organization will have much money to disqualify any opponent, will have a disgusting media fawning over him. Their opinion is Obama must be defeated at all costs, and consider Romney a better bet to win.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 07, 2011 3:26 AM GMT
    CHRISTOPHER34 said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidYour premise is incorrect. I DO want it and him.... and I'm a person, thus your
    commentary isn't correct John... if you claimed "the majority" don't want him (that would be open to disagreement), but to make the claim you do isn't correct.

    icon_wink.gif

    And it's Peggy Noonan, give me a break...

    Well the "nobody" was an editorial exaggeration. Certainly there are some who disagree, who appreciate, ignore, or fail to understand the economic pressures in Greece that could eventually impact us. Who like class warfare, who like a President who kisses Putin's butt, only to have Putin kick his butt in return.


    This time next year that loser community organizer sleezy lawyer obama will be packing his bags and heading back to chicago. At this point it doesn't matter who the GOP puts up.



    Nice emotional response, Christopher. I would disagree.
    And if it's the Grinch, it won't even be close.
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    Dec 07, 2011 3:30 AM GMT
    Peggy Noonan is not to be taken seriously under any circumstances. she's been wrong about virtually everything since 1988.
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    Dec 07, 2011 3:55 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidNice emotional response, Christopher. I would disagree.
    And if it's the Grinch, it won't even be close.

    Most polls show Gingrich behind, but not far. Perhaps you realize the one on one polls not too meaningful while the Republicans are still in primary mode. Any incumbent below 50% is in trouble. If you believe it won't even be close, you are engaged in wishful thinking. Either Gingrich or Romney will mop the floor with Obama in a debate. Although I would enjoy seeing Obama humiliated, which either could easily do, I don't want people to feel sorry and consider him an underdog. But fear not - where the candidates feel the need to hold back, the folks on the internet won't need to worry about the sympathy backlash. They will destroy his candidacy. That's a promise.
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    Dec 07, 2011 4:02 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidNice emotional response, Christopher. I would disagree.
    And if it's the Grinch, it won't even be close.

    Most polls show Gingrich behind, but not far. Perhaps you realize the one on one polls not too meaningful while the Republicans are still in primary mode. Any incumbent below 50% is in trouble. If you believe it won't even be close, you are engaged in wishful thinking. Either Gingrich or Romney will mop the floor with Obama in a debate. Although I would enjoy seeing Obama humiliated, which either could easily do, I don't want people to feel sorry and consider him an underdog. But fear not - where the candidates feel the need to hold back, the folks on the internet won't need to worry about the sympathy backlash. They will destroy his candidacy. That's a promise.


    I wouldn't count Gingrich out. He has been left for dead before and made comebacks. As far as Obama being humiliated, thats fun to watch.
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    Dec 07, 2011 4:13 AM GMT
    CHRISTOPHER34 said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidNice emotional response, Christopher. I would disagree.
    And if it's the Grinch, it won't even be close.

    Most polls show Gingrich behind, but not far. Perhaps you realize the one on one polls not too meaningful while the Republicans are still in primary mode. Any incumbent below 50% is in trouble. If you believe it won't even be close, you are engaged in wishful thinking. Either Gingrich or Romney will mop the floor with Obama in a debate. Although I would enjoy seeing Obama humiliated, which either could easily do, I don't want people to feel sorry and consider him an underdog. But fear not - where the candidates feel the need to hold back, the folks on the internet won't need to worry about the sympathy backlash. They will destroy his candidacy. That's a promise.

    I wouldn't count Gingrich out. He has been left for dead before and made comebacks. As far as Obama being humiliated, thats fun to watch.

    We'll just have to see how things evolve. After Nixon lost the gubernatorial contest in California, he was considered finished. (I know the socialists will enjoy my mentioning Nixon and compare him to Gingrich, but that's ok.)
  • DR2K

    Posts: 346

    Dec 07, 2011 4:21 AM GMT
    With the alternative being a republican it wouldn't really matter how low his approval ratings get. He has that young and minority vote locked in the bag.
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    Dec 07, 2011 4:48 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    CHRISTOPHER34 said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidNice emotional response, Christopher. I would disagree.
    And if it's the Grinch, it won't even be close.

    Most polls show Gingrich behind, but not far. Perhaps you realize the one on one polls not too meaningful while the Republicans are still in primary mode. Any incumbent below 50% is in trouble. If you believe it won't even be close, you are engaged in wishful thinking. Either Gingrich or Romney will mop the floor with Obama in a debate. Although I would enjoy seeing Obama humiliated, which either could easily do, I don't want people to feel sorry and consider him an underdog. But fear not - where the candidates feel the need to hold back, the folks on the internet won't need to worry about the sympathy backlash. They will destroy his candidacy. That's a promise.

    I wouldn't count Gingrich out. He has been left for dead before and made comebacks. As far as Obama being humiliated, thats fun to watch.

    We'll just have to see how things evolve. After Nixon lost the gubernatorial contest in California, he was considered finished. (I know the socialists will enjoy my mentioning Nixon and compare him to Gingrich, but that's ok.)


    It's a circular firing squad on the GOP side and Obama has gone populist (at last). Who do you think the majority of Americans will vote for, the guy who recognizes that historic income inequality is strangling our country's economy or the one who wants to send poor kids to mop floors when they should be studying?

    You always seem to forget that most Americans have at their heart a basic sense of fairness.

    Not to mention that Gingrich as nominee neutralizes Fannie/Freddie attacks, Gingrich is a Catholic, which rates just above Mormon for evangelicals (there goes the base), is a serial adulterer, and has talked himself into a Trump debate, which even Romney was smart enough to duck.

    And Gingrich will wipe the floor with no one. He will come off like a grumpy old dinosaur next to Obama. Look at what a whiny bitch he's been at the Republican debates.

    And that's before Pelosi gets to work on the oppo research! icon_lol.gif
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    Dec 07, 2011 5:08 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    CHRISTOPHER34 said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidNice emotional response, Christopher. I would disagree.
    And if it's the Grinch, it won't even be close.

    Most polls show Gingrich behind, but not far. Perhaps you realize the one on one polls not too meaningful while the Republicans are still in primary mode. Any incumbent below 50% is in trouble. If you believe it won't even be close, you are engaged in wishful thinking. Either Gingrich or Romney will mop the floor with Obama in a debate. Although I would enjoy seeing Obama humiliated, which either could easily do, I don't want people to feel sorry and consider him an underdog. But fear not - where the candidates feel the need to hold back, the folks on the internet won't need to worry about the sympathy backlash. They will destroy his candidacy. That's a promise.

    I wouldn't count Gingrich out. He has been left for dead before and made comebacks. As far as Obama being humiliated, thats fun to watch.

    We'll just have to see how things evolve. After Nixon lost the gubernatorial contest in California, he was considered finished. (I know the socialists will enjoy my mentioning Nixon and compare him to Gingrich, but that's ok.)


    It's a circular firing squad on the GOP side and Obama has gone populist (at last). Who do you think the majority of Americans will vote for, the guy who recognizes that historic income inequality is strangling our country's economy or the one who wants to send poor kids to mop floors when they should be studying?

    You always seem to forget that most Americans have at their heart a basic sense of fairness.

    Not to mention that Gingrich as nominee neutralizes Fannie/Freddie attacks, Gingrich is a Catholic, which rates just above Mormon for evangelicals (there goes the base), is a serial adulterer, and has talked himself into a Trump debate, which even Romney was smart enough to duck.

    And Gingrich will wipe the floor with no one. He will come off like a grumpy old dinosaur next to Obama. Look at what a whiny bitch he's been at the Republican debates.

    And that's before Pelosi gets to work on the oppo research! icon_lol.gif

    Christian, I'll use your tactic now and say so much of what you write is wishful thinking, too much effort to respond to all your points, except to say if Pelosi uses material from an investigation, her little petite fanny will be in trouble.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Dec 07, 2011 7:19 AM GMT
    CHRISTOPHER34 said
    I wouldn't count Gingrich out. He has been left for dead before and made comebacks. As far as Obama being humiliated, thats fun to watch.



    I wouldn't count ANYONE out -- accept maybe Bachmann and Santorum -- because in elections anything can, and usually does, happen. This time last election Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson were leading the polls while McCain was a distant 4th. These polls mean nothing. Once the actual votes start to be counted in primaries then and only then will the real candidate begin to emerge.
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    Dec 07, 2011 7:40 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidYour premise is incorrect. I DO want it and him.... and I'm a person, thus your
    commentary isn't correct John... if you claimed "the majority" don't want him (that would be open to disagreement), but to make the claim you do isn't correct.

    icon_wink.gif

    And it's Peggy Noonan, give me a break...

    Well the "nobody" was an editorial exaggeration. Certainly there are some who disagree, who appreciate, ignore, or fail to understand the economic pressures in Greece that could eventually impact us. Who like class warfare, who like a President who kisses Putin's butt, only to have Putin kick his butt in return.


    Did you really just try to pull the class warfare bullshit? Also, the best you have to offer is Gingrich or Romney, neither of which would be good presidents.

    Talk to any mainstream economist about cutting deficits harshly when you're in a recession.

    edit: Let's go back to this class warfare thing. Firstly, if you knew anything about the history of politics and economics you'd know that he hasn't done anything radically "leftist" except for the health care act, which isn't radical at all. He supported an unavoidable bailout of the richest banks and companies in America. Obama didn't veto the continuation of the Bush tax cuts, nor has he expressed the desire to change tax rates to clinton-era highs. He's a center left democrat and that's easy to see.

    You're either uninformed, myopic, or just plain silly.
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    Dec 07, 2011 7:56 AM GMT
    also, you need to think about things more critically. there are many differences between greece and the usa that point to different possible outcomes. greece's problem is not, for example, their overextended military or their health care costs (from what I can understand). the global recession hit them hard and they borrowed a huge amount relative to their small economy...with huge interest. they also can't print money because of the EU's structure.
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    Dec 07, 2011 10:21 AM GMT
    diaspora saidalso, you need to think about things more critically. there are many differences between greece and the usa that point to different possible outcomes. greece's problem is not, for example, their overextended military or their health care costs (from what I can understand). the global recession hit them hard and they borrowed a huge amount relative to their small economy...with huge interest. they also can't print money because of the EU's structure.

    I won't comment on all your points, but it is clear you have a very slanted view. Not surprising, given you are likely reflecting the viewpoint of your high school teachers. There are obvious differences between some of the countries in the Euro zone, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, versus the US. Some can try and point to those differences to discount the relevance to the US. The common pattern among those countries is increasing a debt becoming harder to service resulting from years of lavish entitlements, union influence, anti-business policies, and a left leaning governments. They represent what Obama would like to take this country towards. I don't suspect this will believable to you, and at age 18 you feel pretty confident you know a lot.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Dec 07, 2011 11:06 AM GMT
    Peggy Noonnan ... LOL

    Now saying she's biased isn't even worth mentioning ... but that she is 100% Wrong is the answer to this whole thing
    Obama isn't BLAMING anyone
    He is simply stating the truth
    The Congress has been Nonfunctional because of republican politicking
    Plain and simple ... Filibusters
    Anti-abortion legislation taking priority over everything else
    Not taking up the jobs bill
    The Bush Tax Cuts
    On and On and On and On

    Puh-Leeze ... Ms Noonan there's a nose in front of your freakin face
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Dec 07, 2011 5:05 PM GMT
    diaspora said
    You're either uninformed, myopic, or just plain silly.


    How many elections have you voted in? Class president, homecoming queen, and student council doesn't count icon_wink.gif
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    Dec 07, 2011 5:18 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    diaspora said
    You're either uninformed, myopic, or just plain silly.


    How many elections have you voted in? Class president, homecoming queen, and student council doesn't count icon_wink.gif

    LOL
    I normally avoid age related comments because some of the guys here in their 20s have more knowledge and wisdom than many twice their age. But couldn't resist when an 18 year old tries to lecture me based on a slanted view. Guess there is a group think in high schools these days. At least some of them are thinking about the world, a step in the right direction.
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    Dec 07, 2011 5:53 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    diaspora said
    You're either uninformed, myopic, or just plain silly.


    How many elections have you voted in? Class president, homecoming queen, and student council doesn't count icon_wink.gif

    LOL
    I normally avoid age related comments because some of the guys here in their 20s have more knowledge and wisdom than many twice their age. But couldn't resist when an 18 year old tries to lecture me based on a slanted view. Guess there is a group think in high schools these days. At least some of them are thinking about the world, a step in the right direction.


    Oh yeah... American high schools are the bulwark of the socialist insurrection. icon_lol.gif

    You guys need a new set of talking points. Check out Frank Luntz's recent (and hilariously pathetic) OWS ones.
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    Dec 07, 2011 8:03 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    diaspora saidalso, you need to think about things more critically. there are many differences between greece and the usa that point to different possible outcomes. greece's problem is not, for example, their overextended military or their health care costs (from what I can understand). the global recession hit them hard and they borrowed a huge amount relative to their small economy...with huge interest. they also can't print money because of the EU's structure.

    I won't comment on all your points, but it is clear you have a very slanted view. Not surprising, given you are likely reflecting the viewpoint of your high school teachers. There are obvious differences between some of the countries in the Euro zone, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, versus the US. Some can try and point to those differences to discount the relevance to the US. The common pattern among those countries is increasing a debt becoming harder to service resulting from years of lavish entitlements, union influence, anti-business policies, and a left leaning governments. They represent what Obama would like to take this country towards. I don't suspect this will believable to you, and at age 18 you feel pretty confident you know a lot.


    i don't know any of my high school teachers' views other than that they were all conservative. nice try on that ad hominem, though. anyone else want to try to discredit me because of age?

    i knew not to pull that shit in a debate when i was 15. act your age.

    actually, you're creating a false equivalency. the eurozone 'resembles' the USA's economic problem but it's hardly the same. they have different problems and different ways of solving them.
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    Dec 07, 2011 8:08 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    diaspora said
    You're either uninformed, myopic, or just plain silly.


    How many elections have you voted in? Class president, homecoming queen, and student council doesn't count icon_wink.gif

    LOL
    I normally avoid age related comments because some of the guys here in their 20s have more knowledge and wisdom than many twice their age. But couldn't resist when an 18 year old tries to lecture me based on a slanted view. Guess there is a group think in high schools these days. At least some of them are thinking about the world, a step in the right direction.


    it's alright when you try to lecture the forums with your slanted view, though? every view is "slanted." that's the point of the argument. if we both had impartial views, there would be no reason to disagree.

    come on. high schools aren't indoctrinating your children. i submit that anyone who says this is either a) a frequent watcher of Fox News --e.g. O'Reilly -- or b) someone who doesn't understand that teachers are discouraged (and often scared) to discuss their personal political views. I have to deal with people like you, older people who think that literally every teen/young adult is oblivious to the world and believes that he/she is the only correct one, on a daily basis.

    well, i tested out of university macroeconomics when I was in high school, and in that (AP econ) class we discussed the US's mounting debt problem. the teacher herself believed that we were going to have to cut drastically, but she didn't think that Congress had the wherewithal to do so. I disagreed with her, respectfully, and the whole class would get into a discussion. i won't sit here and let people make these generalized statements about america's high schools just because they believe everything that (one) media source tells them.

    if you want ad hominem, we can do ad hominem, but it won't get us anywhere. i for one think that it's easy to see your incorrectness. if you really think that the situation in Greece is "where Obama wants us" (paraphrase), then why don't you think about how that would be political suicide. he clearly doesn't "want" that.

    my formative years were colored by Bush being in office. when i became politically/socially "conscious" or whatever, my criticisms were about him being, in my opinion, incompetent, not malevolent. there's an important distinction. you come off as silly and irrational if you yell about these evil motives. i get emails all the time (forwarded chain mail) from these people who truly believe that Obama is a socialist--he is far, far from it.
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    Dec 07, 2011 11:31 PM GMT
    diaspora said
    socalfitness said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    diaspora said
    You're either uninformed, myopic, or just plain silly.


    How many elections have you voted in? Class president, homecoming queen, and student council doesn't count icon_wink.gif

    LOL
    I normally avoid age related comments because some of the guys here in their 20s have more knowledge and wisdom than many twice their age. But couldn't resist when an 18 year old tries to lecture me based on a slanted view. Guess there is a group think in high schools these days. At least some of them are thinking about the world, a step in the right direction.


    it's alright when you try to lecture the forums with your slanted view, though? every view is "slanted." that's the point of the argument. if we both had impartial views, there would be no reason to disagree.

    come on. high schools aren't indoctrinating your children. i submit that anyone who says this is either a) a frequent watcher of Fox News --e.g. O'Reilly -- or b) someone who doesn't understand that teachers are discouraged (and often scared) to discuss their personal political views. I have to deal with people like you, older people who think that literally every teen/young adult is oblivious to the world and believes that he/she is the only correct one, on a daily basis.

    well, i tested out of university macroeconomics when I was in high school, and in that (AP econ) class we discussed the US's mounting debt problem. the teacher herself believed that we were going to have to cut drastically, but she didn't think that Congress had the wherewithal to do so. I disagreed with her, respectfully, and the whole class would get into a discussion. i won't sit here and let people make these generalized statements about america's high schools just because they believe everything that (one) media source tells them.

    if you want ad hominem, we can do ad hominem, but it won't get us anywhere. i for one think that it's easy to see your incorrectness. if you really think that the situation in Greece is "where Obama wants us" (paraphrase), then why don't you think about how that would be political suicide. he clearly doesn't "want" that.

    my formative years were colored by Bush being in office. when i became politically/socially "conscious" or whatever, my criticisms were about him being, in my opinion, incompetent, not malevolent. there's an important distinction. you come off as silly and irrational if you yell about these evil motives. i get emails all the time (forwarded chain mail) from these people who truly believe that Obama is a socialist--he is far, far from it.

    If your high school is not as I assumed then fine. Your characterization of my position is incorrect, and you are apparently not able to critically understand multiple positions. I do watch Fox, btw, but watch and read many sources, domestic and international, with multiple political positions, and in a few languages.

    If you want to pursue the definitions of socialism, in addition to studying Marx and Engels, you should see the differences in the West European socialist parties and politicians. They are labeled and call themselves socialist. Then compare their positions with the goals of Obama.

    I am not impressed with your attitude and your arrogance, whatever your age, and I'll leave it at that.
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    Dec 08, 2011 3:29 AM GMT
    by socialist, they mean social democracy. there's a clear difference. western european governments usually tout a very strong social safety net, a strong labor union force, and high taxes. scandinavian countries do this to a higher degree.

    frankly, i don't care to hear what you think of my attitude if you're going to use ad hominem. don't expect to get any sympathy if you blatantly mischaracterize the president of the united states. nothing that he has supported is even close to conceptions of "liberal" in that part of the world.

    if i called bush a neo-conservative fascist who wants to see us move toward Iran and China in terms of repression because of the Patriot Act, i'd hope that you'd call me out in a similar fashion.