Does Milk Do A Bodybuilder Good?

  • sandiegovince

    Posts: 111

    Jun 09, 2008 11:45 AM GMT
    Hi Guys, I was wondering if I should keep milk in my diet. I've noticed when I mix my whey protein powder with milk it tends to make me look and feel bloated. I've heard from a few guys that say dairy products such as milk is counterproductive to your diet especially if you wish to get lean and defined.
    Thanks for your input,
    Vince
  • twentyfourhou...

    Posts: 243

    Jun 09, 2008 1:17 PM GMT
    Vince,

    Great question! It will be interesting to see what the more experience weight lifters have to say. Just my take, for years i would mix water with my whey protein drink before a workout and had fruit for breakfast. About 6 months ago, i switched to two cups of 2% milk with cereal for breakfast and have about 16-21 OZ 2% milk with my whey protein. For the first 2-4 days (even if i go off for a couple of days) i do feel really bloated. I have not noticed a change in my physique BUT just as important i do have more energy to complete my workouts and thus work harder. Remember, though - i drink the shake before my workouts.

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    Jun 09, 2008 1:51 PM GMT
    A rather large portion of my diet consists of dairy, including milk.

    Certainly you want to limit fat consumption if you want to be lean and defined, so whole milk, cream, etc., aren't anything you should be consuming in volume... But skim or even 1% milk shouldn't be a problem.

    Personally, I can't stand protein shakes mixed with water. Even if I add egg whites, the consistency makes drinking them feel like a chore rather than something refreshing.

    As with everything else, your body may react somewhat differently to milk than other people. The real answer to your question will probably come from personal experimentation and observation of the results.

    BTW - I also suspect certain ingredients in protein shakes (not necessarily the milk it might be mixed with) are what cause bloating. I can't even go near protein shakes sweetened with sucralose, for example.
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    Jun 09, 2008 1:59 PM GMT

    LOL, it's not the milk making you feel bloated, but those recycled Chinese Newspapers you are mixing into it!!
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    Jun 09, 2008 3:52 PM GMT
    Again,
    discuss this with you doctor. Drinking a lot of milk if you are concerned about cancer and heart disease or arthritis is a bad idea. Calcium in milk will drain the body of vitamin D which is a cancer fighter. Even if the milk is supplemented with vit D, there is still too much calcium in cows milk to offset it.
    Milk is often pitched as a great source of Calcium. It is not. Yes, it has a high calcium content, but the body cannot utilize it, in fact, consumption of cows milk actually leaches calcium from the bones! Because the cows milk is highly acidic, the body needs to buffer it with more internal calcium than you get from the milk. The 10-1 ratio of calcium to magnesium found in milk is insanely high and devestating to the body.
    The milk of every species of mammal is unique and specifically tailored to the requirements of that animal. For example, cows' milk is very much richer in
    protein than human milk. Three to four times as much. It has five to seven times the mineral content. However, it is markedly deficient in essential fatty acids when compared to human mothers' milk. Mothers' milk has six to ten times as much of the essential fatty acids, especially linoleic acid.
    (Incidentally, skimmed cow's milk has no linoleic acid). I think the extra protein is why it why it is so appealing to body builders but milk is full of other things besides protein. Hormones, puss, white blood cells and antibiotics are all allowed under the FDA's guidelines.

    In the largest study of its kind, men who drank non-fat or low-fat milk had a higher risk of prostate cancer compared to men who drank whole milk. But this was only for localized and low-grade types of prostate cancer. The fat bit is confusing –- you’ll have to balance the increased prostate cancer risk of non- and low-fat milk with the increased heart disease risk of whole milk. Or you could just drink milk alternatives.

    I switched to soy milk a long time ago after my doctor informed me that the phlegm i felt in my throat after drinking milk or dairy was an allergic reaction to the casein in dairy products. He also advised me to follow a low protein diet with the majority of nutrients coming from plant sources. Again, Diabetes, cancer and heart disease all run on my fathers side of the family. I am at risk for a number of diseases based on my genetics. The only way to offset my risks are by balancing them with lifestyle choices. Not that I wont get cancer or heart disease, but my chances of surviving aggressive treatments will be better with a modified lifestyle.

    I have said this before but it is important. Building a big muscular frame is remarkably different from having a healthy body and internal organs. It is important that you realize there are always alternative ways to get the results you want without jeopardizing your health. What works for one person may not be good for you. If you are bloating, your body is telling you something, often that is the symptom of a milk allergy. A doctor should be able to advise you on a good plan of action.
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    Jun 09, 2008 4:04 PM GMT
    mnjock2003 - Your comments are interesting to me, in that I have noticed that my body reacts differently to different *brands* of milk.

    I've always speculated that there is a difference in milk composition among different breeds of cattle. I imagine that, combined with the diet and conditions in which the cattle live also affect milk quality and composition. Several (but not all) types of organic milk that I've tried seem particularly easy for my body to digest (not to mention that I think some taste dramatically better).

    I've already read that lactose tolerance varies, even among intollerant individuals, based on the type of lactose in the dairy product... so it probably follows that other compounds in the milk will vary as well.
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    Jun 09, 2008 4:17 PM GMT
    BTW - "but milk is full of other things besides protein. Hormones, puss, white blood cells and antibiotics are all allowed under the FDA's guidelines."

    Indeed. But just about everything we eat has at least some nasty stuff in it. Soy products have phytoestrogens, and some suspect the reason soy products may lower the risk of prostate cancer is that they also can slightly lower testosterone in sensitive individuals. And how many guys on this forum eat canned tuna?

    That's one reason it's important to have a widely varied diet. There is no one perfect food. Consuming a variety of foods balances out the positives and negatives of each dietary component.
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    Jun 09, 2008 5:18 PM GMT
    I've been experimenting with almond milk as well. It actually tastes better in coffe and tea lattes than skim milk or soy. But you have to be careful...as it triggered a dormant nut allergy in a friend of mine!
  • SoDakGuy

    Posts: 1862

    Jun 09, 2008 5:22 PM GMT
    If you are looking to put on size, use milk! It's great! icon_biggrin.gif

    To lean out, I say cut out A LOT of the milk because of that bloating you talk about.

    I can't drink any milk. Damn that lactose intolerance I have now. icon_cry.gif
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    Jun 09, 2008 6:19 PM GMT
    doesnt whey protein comes from milk?
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    Jun 09, 2008 7:47 PM GMT
    iskandar saiddoesnt whey protein comes from milk?

    It does, yes.
    Whey and casein are the two types of protein in milk.(87% water, 3.5% protein, 3.5 to 5% fat, and the rest is milk sugar aka. lactose)
    Casein is used to make glue (why a cow is on elmers glue) and bind stuff like cheese together. (The harder the cheese, the more casein.) Generally , it is what causes the intolerance and phlegm too as it promotes histamine production.
    Body builders love it because it is slow to break down and slows protein break down in the body.

    Human beings are the only species (other than house cats) to consume milk past childhood. We are also the only species to consume the milk of another species.

    There are pro's and cons to all the food that we eat. But with all the milk mustache crap ads and the dairy lobbyists eager to make dairy a "health" food... it just seems to have blurred some peoples judgement and ability to use objective thought regarding the matter. Much of what you think about milk is programmed in your head from when you were a child in kindergarten having a milk and snack break.

    Humans DO get disease from consuming dairy, the cholesterol and saturated fat found in dairy can cause disease and kill us.

    Lactose intolerance is a reality for 75% of the world's population
    If you are lactose intolerant, which many people are, discuss this with a nutritionist or a doctor, not body builders.
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    Jun 09, 2008 8:10 PM GMT
    [quote]
    Human beings are the only species (other than house cats) to consume milk past childhood. We are also the only species to consume the milk of another species.

    There are pro's and cons to all the food that we eat. But with all the milk mustache crap ads and the dairy lobbyists eager to make dairy a "health" food... it just seems to have blurred some peoples judgement and ability to use objective thought regarding the matter. Much of what you think about milk is programmed in your head from when you were a child in kindergarten having a milk and snack break.

    Humans DO get disease from consuming dairy, the cholesterol and saturated fat found in dairy can cause disease and kill us.
    [/quote]

    Isn't this stance somewhat extreme? This is practically like equating dairy consumption with smoking. Virtually everything we eat can cause disease. Animal products in general aren't very healthy. Vegetarians are well proven to have dramatically lower risk of heart disease. And, actually, a lower risk of all kinds of other health problems.

    The guy is asking for input on milk in a general sense. He isn't saying he is lactose intollerant. Let's not lose perspective here.
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    Jun 09, 2008 8:20 PM GMT
    actually 99 per cent of the population is lactose intolerant there are only 2 tribes on the planet that are not. Everyone else has varying degrees.

    In the context of your argument I disagree with alot of the comments you raise on the health benefit of milk as a source when so many are so eager to stick whey protein in their body which is just an extraction of milk. You also site soy as an excellent alternative but due to the initial screw ups in GM farming methods their is no way they can any longer classify soy as non gm as cross pollination occurred.

    I dont disagree with your comments on Vit D nor the sentiment of your argument but I just feel you are overplaying the facts in relation to the impact.
    There is a hell of alot of research going on in this area at the second anyway

    The only thing I would say really on the subject is go careful as if you are seriously consuming the milk as I was its very easy to push yourself over your own tolerance level and for some unbeknown reason even if you cut back the tolerance doesnt tend to re-adjust. the same can be said for using whey protein tho.

    As for using milk when cutting again if you are bloating then its your bodies intolerance but other that aside there is no reason why you shouldnt consume milk on a cut
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    Jun 09, 2008 8:38 PM GMT
    mnjock2003 said...Milk is often pitched as a great source of Calcium. It is not. Yes, it has a high calcium content, but the body cannot utilize it, in fact, consumption of cows milk actually leaches calcium from the bones!...

    OK, now you got my attention. I've heard this before, and I never get source citations. With such a broad declaration, you'll have to source this, because according to the FDA milk is a good source of calcium.

    See also: http://www.calciuminfo.com/about/foodsources.aspx

    Not that I believe that the FDA isn't immune from the dairy lobby, but such a relationship is not a valid proof of your stance.

    This issue is separate from lactose intolerance and cholesterol and fat discussions.
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    Jun 09, 2008 8:46 PM GMT
    See also:
    http://osteoporosis.about.com/od/dietsupplements/a/Calcium_Food.htm

    Skim milk, yogurt, cheese, etc. are listed as sources of the most absorbable percentage of calcium (further down the page in the absorption table).

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    Jun 09, 2008 9:58 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidSee also:
    http://osteoporosis.about.com/od/dietsupplements/a/Calcium_Food.htm

    Skim milk, yogurt, cheese, etc. are listed as sources of the most absorbable percentage of calcium (further down the page in the absorption table).



    Mickey... certainly there is evidence on both sides of the subject.

    The Dairy Council used to advertise that "Milk builds strong bones". They were sued in court to prove it, and with all the big-money research, they simply couldn't. So the courts ordered the slogan stopped, for false advertising.

    Now they keep it vague: "Milk does a body good".
    What good? The Dairy Council won't actually say.

    After looking at 34 published studies in 16 countries, researchers at Yale University found that countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis “including the United States, Sweden, and Finland” are those in which people consume the most meat, milk, and other animal foods. This study also showed that African Americans, who consume, on average, more than 1,000 mg of calcium per day, are nine times more likely to experience hip fractures than are South African blacks, whose daily calcium intake is only 196 mg. Says McDougall, “[O]n a nation-by-nation basis, people who consume the most calcium have the weakest bones and the highest rates of osteoporosis. ... Only in those places where calcium and protein are eaten in relatively high quantities does a deficiency of bone calcium exist, due to an excess of animal protein.”

    From medicine.net
    "It turns out that the relationship between the proteins in dairy products and the calcium in bones is a rocky one. First of all, calcium appears to be ultimately pulled from bones to escort digested animal protein from any source -- not just dairy products -- on its trek through the body. Since the average American's diet is protein-heavy to begin with, some experts say that eating lots of dairy foods may actually cause people to lose calcium. "When you eat a protein food, such as milk, you may be swallowing calcium, but you turn around and excrete calcium in your urine," says Donna Herlock, MD, spokeswoman for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, a nonprofit advocacy group opposed to milk consumption.

    To buttress her point, Herlock points to a portion of the Harvard Nurses' Health study published in the June 1997 issue of the American Journal of Public Health. The study found that women who ate lots of dairy products had higher rates of bone fractures than women who rarely touched the stuff. It suggested that drinking more milk didn't provide any substantial protection against hip or forearm fractures in middle-aged and older women, writes Diane Feskanich, ScD, a professor at Harvard Medical School in Cambridge, Mass., and the study's lead author. "We considered the possibility that dairy protein was responsible for the increase in risk of hip fractures," she says."
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    Jun 09, 2008 10:13 PM GMT
    mnjock2003 saidFrom medicine.net
    "It turns out that the relationship between the proteins in dairy products and the calcium in bones is a rocky one. First of all, calcium appears to be ultimately pulled from bones to escort digested animal protein from any source...says Donna Herlock, MD, spokeswoman for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, a nonprofit advocacy group opposed to milk consumption.

    In all fairness I haven't had a chance to review your short list of sources, but this one, by the Physicians Committe for Responsible Medicine, is a dubious one. In their zeal to repudiate the use of animal sources of food, they, it appears, will cite studies that support this claim while other studies contradict this.

    http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.227/news_detail.asp

    I'm gathering you are a vegetarian. I can certainly see some moral prerogatives for this. However, animal sources of food, despite its moral implications, are unlikely to be the cause of disease to the extent these advocacy groups insist.

    Other sources?
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    Jun 09, 2008 10:14 PM GMT
    You know, at the end of the day you just have to decide what works for your own body and with your own genetic dispositions.
    After some bad experiences with personal trainers suggesting my diet regime, i consulted a doctor who recommended the exact opposite and I have never felt better.
    I think it is better to be mindful of what is good for your entire bodies health and look beyond what is just good for muscles.
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    Jun 09, 2008 10:16 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said[quote][cite]mnjock2003 said[/cite]From medicine.net
    "url]

    I'm gathering you are a vegetarian. I can certainly see some moral prerogatives for this. However, animal sources of food, despite its moral implications, are unlikely to be the cause of disease to the extent these advocacy groups insist.

    Other sources?


    Well the Harvard and Yale sources should strike you as non biased as should the dairy council losing its lawsuit.
    And , to be honest, none of this is based on my moral stance. My physician is who made the recommendations to move from my vegetarian diet to a vegan one if I wanted to lessen my chances of getting cancer, diabetes and heart disease that run in my family.
    And yes, both sides or the coin are sticky with people who have an agenda.
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    Jun 09, 2008 10:27 PM GMT

    I dunno what milk you drink but Whole milk has 3.5% fat, 4.5% carbohydrate, 3% protien

    all that milk is bad propaganda comes straight from PETA whom I would not believe a word from....

    http://www.milksucks.com/
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    Jun 09, 2008 10:39 PM GMT
    From wikipedia.com Cow milk contains, on average, 3.4% protein, 3.6% fat, and 4.6% lactose
    Are you maybe referring to lactose as carbs?

    I actually quoted it as having 10% protein,.. It has less, my bad.
    Otherwise, what is different? Lactose is milk sugar and most of it(87%-88%) is water.
    I am not quoting PETA, so don't even go there with me.

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    Jun 09, 2008 10:56 PM GMT
    mnjock2003 saidFrom wikipedia.com Cow milk contains, on average, 3.4% protein, 3.6% fat, and 4.6% lactose
    Are you maybe referring to lactose as carbs?

    I actually quoted it as having 10% protein,.. It has less, my bad.
    Otherwise, what is different? Lactose is milk sugar and most of it(87%-88%) is water.
    I am not quoting PETA, so don't even go there with me.



    Here's hoping milk was 10% protien



    I was referring to the puss quote is from peta's campaign to influence school children along with eggs are chicken periods
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    Jun 09, 2008 11:07 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said[quote][cite]
    I'm gathering you are a vegetarian. I can certainly see some moral prerogatives for this. However, animal sources of food, despite its moral implications, are unlikely to be the cause of disease to the extent these advocacy groups insist.

    Other sources?


    Mickey.
    Visit any cancer website.
    Visit any website about cholesterol , heart disease, diabetes, etc. and you will find a plethora of guidelines regarding animal food sources. Most of the studies deduce that animal products, in the form of saturated fat and cholesterol, are toxic to the human body. I am somewhat amazed that this is at all surprising. The first advice any doctor gives is to lower your animal fat intake and cholesterol.

    http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=63151

    http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/articles/Truth.shtml
    http://www.lowering-cholesterol.biz/high-cholesterol-foods.htm
    http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20050317/high-cholesterol-may-speed-prostate-cancer
    http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1047279704003370
    http://www.hms.harvard.edu/news/pressreleases/bwh/0703animalfatsbreastcancer.html
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE1DA1630F930A25751C1A966958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

    Can you tell me any other species that has to cook or pasteurize their animal based diet before ingesting it to avoid becoming ill?
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    Jun 09, 2008 11:22 PM GMT
    Okay, don't be disingenuous...on topic, your repudiation was against milk's CALCIUM source. Don't change the subject. You're smarter than this, and so am I.
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    Jun 09, 2008 11:28 PM GMT
    mnjock2003 saidWell, the Harvard and Yale sources should strike you as non biased as should the dairy council losing its lawsuit...

    To be fair to you, I'll look into the Yale and Harvard studies; however, bias isn't the only issue. Unbiased studies have their problems as well...I'm just saying.

    As far as the Dairy Council losing its lawsuit...okay, that's weak. NOT being able to prove a value in a court isn't the same thing as not having value. I'll attempt to find that decision, and consider the wording. I doubt the conclusions were false advertising.