OIL and its all incompassing affects/involvement in our country's and the world's troubles is another primary reason to VOTE FOR OBAMA

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    Jun 09, 2008 9:37 PM GMT
    Since at least the 90's the Clintons/the Democrats have tried to bring about legislation to wean us of dependence on OIL, and reduce polution, but time and again have been held back by the conservative republicans who have wanted to stick with the status quo. Most often the republicans have stopped progressive ideas/efforts to continue backing the priorities of big oil concerns and interests. Conservatives thereby have missed probably the most important opportunity of our time, to facilitate historicly important changes and direction for our country and our world. This opportunity to effect this important new direction is now in the hands of the progressive democrats/Obama who has stated his goal to promote a project to move away from dependence on oil,in a similar level of importance as Kennedy did when he promoted the Space Program. Obama, wants to increase auto mileage, move the auto industry toward new fuels, new sources of power for autos, electric generation and improved public transportation to name a few. ( check out this subject on Obamas site) The setting of big oil interests/priorities as most prominent by the tired old/outdated, big oil greats bush/cheney have led to our country dangerously coming to a brink of disaster because of ignoring the probabilities they were warned of due to the peak oil situation we are now in. They ignored for the sake of big oil/big business profits, the need and opportunity to move away from these old priorities, to avoid economic troubles, resource wars/conflicts, global warming and many other negative results. OBAMA HAS STATED HIS INTENT TO FOSTER THESE CHANGES, along with progressives in this country and around the world. THIS COULD BE THE DEFINING MOMENT IN HISTORY TO POSITIVELY IMPROVE OUR COUNTRY's FORTUNES and the WORLDS as a whole !!!! THIS IS ONE AREA OF "CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN" Its a change that can greatly improve our lot in this country, and unlike the naysayers against change (the conservative republicans) this change can end up being a huge positive force for our economy, making these changes can only improve and stimulate growth, after an initial changeover period facilitated by government policies as proposed by Obama. THINK ABOUT THIS !!! IT MAY BE ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT REASONS TO VOTE FOR OBAMA and against the conservative mindset to "STAY THE COURSE" SEND THESE TIRED OLD NEOCON OIL GOONS HOME FOR GOOD!!!
  • joeindallas

    Posts: 484

    Jun 09, 2008 9:58 PM GMT
    We have been in this trouble since 1973 when the OPEC/Arabs emposed their first oil embargo on us. We should have at that ttime should have gotten the Clue. Instead it is 2008 and we are asking Vanna if we can buy a Vowel. When Obama gets elected we should get a Manhattan style (not that Manhattan) project and get teh US off OIL. Until then tax the hell out of BIG V8 SUVs.

    I will love it the day we tell the ARABS to eat their sand covered in thier OIL
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    Jun 09, 2008 11:35 PM GMT
    I'll try to dig through that post when I get home. I would read it here on my break... but that's a lot of text in one paragraph icon_eek.gif.
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    Jun 10, 2008 12:55 AM GMT
    Oil: Yet another reason for people to limit their own consumption icon_exclaim.gif

    Every candidate for president talks about the need to address energy. I don't see why we should trust Obama to do anything more on the subject. Of course he IS better than Hillary in this arena. At least he had the common sense not to go for the popular gas tax break.
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    Jun 10, 2008 1:14 AM GMT
    I personally think that the less is done about high gas prices the better. The sooner people start thinking seriously about conserving, and US car companies start innovating, the better off society will be in the long run.

    Even airlines charging more for air fares and grounding less fuel-efficient planes is not a bad thing. There is too much capacity in the US airline industry which was only being absorbed by charging fares that were too low.

    The gas tax holiday is bad economics and will not encourage people to change their lifestyles. For that Obama should be congratulated for not agreeing to the politically expedient course.
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    Jun 10, 2008 3:14 PM GMT
    There's plenty of oil, we just need to drill it. The Chinese are drilling 50 Miles off Key West. Brazil just located 33 Billion barrels off their shores. We have more oil than that. In northern Alberta "Little Chicago" in the McKenzie range project they're sitting on 40 Billion barrels of crude oil and a hell of a lot more in sand tar. The Alaskans have been chomping at the bit to drill and there's plenty there, it's just on Federal lands and blocked by "Progressives".

    Oil works today. I hope we come up with something better in the future but for right now oil does the job.

    It's so stupid to scrap what you have that works for something that is unknown.

    "Progressive", now that's an oxymoron.



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    Jun 10, 2008 3:40 PM GMT
    You cannot see past the nose on your face, John12345. Oil does not work anymore. Humans used to think it worked before we discovered how dirty the technology is. Its by-products are killing us. Are you still living in 1920? Besides, why go tearing up the earth when the sun, wind, and possibly wave energy is right there for the taking, without creating dangerous by-products and carcinogens.

    You're like the crack addict who cannot see past his addiction to know that there are more healthy and sustainable ways to feel high without killing yourself. You only know what works to get you through another day, to hell with your health and well-being. So stop acting like the oil industry's version of a crack ho, before you go giving a blow job to the tailpipe of the next Hummer.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Jun 10, 2008 3:44 PM GMT
    Well, if you believe that Obama has some sort of magic wand that he can just wave and POOF everything is cured you're sadly mistaken.
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    Jun 10, 2008 3:58 PM GMT
    Who were you just addressing CuriousJockAZ?
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    Jun 10, 2008 4:31 PM GMT
    I don't think that Obama's rhetoric and lofty speeches will fix gas prices. People make it seem like Obama's the "second coming of Christ" or something and that he has all the answers.

    It's not just a president that has to work on finding alternative sources of energy. How about Congress? What have they done. Both Congressional Democrats and Republicans have failed this nation because they lack the intestinal fortitude to rally around a cause instead of their own interest and actually pass legislation to help the nation rather than vote to pad their pockets or satisfy lobbyists. If the President threatens a veto, then OVERRIDE IT if it means putting the country back on track.

    The gas tax holiday would have been a good idea to at least get people through the summer until Congress gets back from its summer recess.

    Take CT for example. The Republican governor of CT at this point is reluctant to suspend the GAS TAX INCREASE when people in CT are already paying the highest gas tax in the nation. How fracked up is that?

    I'm glad I live close to MASS where it's about 20-40 cents cheaper per gallon.
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    Jun 10, 2008 4:34 PM GMT
    ^ I'm not sure exactly where the money from gasoline taxes goes, but Jodi Rell's reluctance to reduce CT's gas tax could be stemming more from the fact the states budget surplus is only a few million.

    Plus I think high prices drive people to better habit's, so I'm all for higher gas taxes icon_cool.gif
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    Jun 10, 2008 4:40 PM GMT
    XRuggerATX, Solar powered cars don't have the pick-up I like in a vehicle. What good is a wind powered car on a calm day? I don't like the idea of a water powered car's little hindenburg under the hood. maybe one day these technologies can be improved but they aren't there yet.

    I drive a Jeep, not a Hummer by the way. When I was in the Army I could get a Jeep just about anyplace a human could walk. They're easy to work on too. I always like the Jeeps.

    I think the term Oil Addict is a modern construct of the idiots who think our modern society can run on anything but oil, whatever party they come from. It's a ridiculous term.

    During the Cold War, countries without an extensive road system were vulnerable to a loss of mobility from strategic attacks. Our road system negates that. An extensive road system improved our civilization, communication and provided flexibility. It still does.

    By your definition of oil addict most of us in the US fit that descripition, unless you grow your own food.

    Oil works like nothing else does. When someone comes up with something better, then lets switch.

    And don't give me that condescending tree hugger crap.
    If you use plastic, you use oil, if you wear synthetic material in your clothes, you use oil, if you get medicine from the Doctor, you use oil. I may be an "oil addict" but I'm not a hypocrit. I appreciate what I got.





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    Jun 10, 2008 4:46 PM GMT
    John -

    I won't speak for Ruggers but he's probably talking about wind/solar/tidal generation for electricity which would in turn power electric cars.

    Electric cars = instant torque. Your pick-up power problem would be easily solved by EV sports cars.
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    Jun 10, 2008 4:55 PM GMT
    Trance23 said^ I'm not sure exactly where the money from gasoline taxes goes, but Jodi Rell's reluctance to reduce CT's gas tax could be stemming more from the fact the states budget surplus is only a few million.

    Plus I think high prices drive people to better habit's, so I'm all for higher gas taxes icon_cool.gif


    High gas prices also drives up prices for necessities like bread, milk, food, and other goods that people not only in CT, but around the country are struggling to pay for. It's also bad for the economy because people aren't buying goods, going on vacations, eating out or going to the movies like they used to. It's a vicious cycle and I'm not an economistt, so I have no idea how to fix them, but I do know that taking the hell out of people is not the way to go.

    I work hard for my money and personally, I don't want the government to take anymore after seeing the way they spend money foolishly. How about mandating that state employees who are provided with car services buy their own cars or hybrids?
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    Jun 10, 2008 4:55 PM GMT
    John43620 saidThere's plenty of oil, we just need to drill it. The Chinese are drilling 50 Miles off Key West. Brazil just located 33 Billion barrels off their shores. We have more oil than that. In northern Alberta "Little Chicago" in the McKenzie range project they're sitting on 40 Billion barrels of crude oil and a hell of a lot more in sand tar. The Alaskans have been chomping at the bit to drill and there's plenty there, it's just on Federal lands and blocked by "Progressives".

    Oil works today. I hope we come up with something better in the future but for right now oil does the job.

    It's so stupid to scrap what you have that works for something that is unknown.

    "Progressive", now that's an oxymoron.





    The world has plenty of oil, but it is becoming much harder to get at. Another complicating factor is some of the biggest producers have discouraged private sector investment in extracting the oil (eg. Venezuela). State owned oil companies are notoriously bad at exploiting their oil resources, and are often prone to corruption among government officials.

    I personally don't think oil will be replaced for many years as the primary source of fuel for cars, planes or trains, and with India, China, Vietnam, Indonesia and other heavily populated countries becoming wealthier, the demand will keep going up, the question is how much?

    The days of really cheap gasoline, diesel fuel or jet fuel for long periods of time (for example in the late 1990's) is likely gone forever. Maybe $4 a gallon is not going to hold out for much longer, but don't be surprised if it stays above $3.
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    Jun 10, 2008 7:12 PM GMT
    RealAmericanHero said
    High gas prices also drives up prices for necessities like bread, milk, food, and other goods that people not only in CT, but around the country are struggling to pay for. It's also bad for the economy because people aren't buying goods, going on vacations, eating out or going to the movies like they used to. It's a vicious cycle and I'm not an economistt, so I have no idea how to fix them, but I do know that taking the hell out of people is not the way to go.


    An increasing price for all things related to oil might be just what we really need.

    We do have alternatives: Jet fuel and truck fuel from biomass, lubricants and plastics from veggie oil, ethanol from algae. etc...

    Of course the cost of these alternatives is still higher than we use now. If prices rise then interest in these alternatives will rise as well. When enough people switch over then the price of alternatives goes down as it hits mass usage and production.
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    Jun 10, 2008 8:21 PM GMT
    John43620 saidXRuggerATX, Solar powered cars don't have the pick-up I like in a vehicle.


    If innovation was actually encouraged in this country, solar cells could become much more powerful OR there would be more solar sources on the grid to power a plug-in electric. You have once again revealed yourself to be a short sighted boob who’s afraid of change or progress.

    John43620 saidWhat good is a wind powered car on a calm day? I don't like the idea of a water powered car's little hindenburg under the hood. maybe one day these technologies can be improved but they aren't there yet.


    Of course a man-child like you thinks of a car with a mast and sail when someone mentions wind power. Wind feeds the grid, the grid powers the car. At least you agree that one day these technologies can be improved. The barriers to innovation need to be removed so that they happen much sooner, rather than later after the oil industry has milked us (and the complicit US auto industry) for all we’re worth.

    John43620 saidI drive a Jeep, not a Hummer by the way. When I was in the Army I could get a Jeep just about anyplace a human could walk. They're easy to work on too. I always like the Jeeps.


    So you understand sustainability on this level, why aren’t you able to raise that awareness on a more economic scale? Propaganda is the food of the ignorant and afraid, that’s why.

    John43620 saidI think the term Oil Addict is a modern construct of the idiots who think our modern society can run on anything but oil, whatever party they come from. It's a ridiculous term.


    Sure as hell resonates with millions though doesn’t it? Kind of like “war on terror”. But really our society CAN make oil obsolete. Definitely. That’s not nearly as far fetched as thinking you can murder your way into getting cultures to cooperate with you.

    John43620 saidDuring the Cold War, countries without an extensive road system were vulnerable to a loss of mobility from strategic attacks. Our road system negates that. An extensive road system improved our civilization, communication and provided flexibility. It still does.


    Roads are just the right surface texture to move quickly. There is no law that says only machines that burn things are allowed to use roads. Your logic is that of a five year old.

    John43620 saidBy your definition of oil addict most of us in the US fit that descripition, unless you grow your own food.


    People are doing this more and more. I am. And there is a very large difference between consuming an apple from Washington and deciding a Texas peach is just as satisfying and only had to be driven 60 miles. But of course that doesn’t sound as extreme as the absolute end of the spectrum, growing your own food. Is there no middle ground in your brain? Is there no sense of better but not perfect in your brain? Did you pass the third grade yet?

    John43620 saidOil works like nothing else does. When someone comes up with something better, then lets switch.


    Oil kills like nothing else too. It has been a big part of the cancer plague and people go to war over it. Oil, as an economic concept, currently robs the masses like nothing else as well. We need all barriers to the “something better” to be removed, and fast.

    John43620 saidAnd don't give me that condescending tree hugger crap.


    You are stupendously easy to condescend to. And as for the label “tree hugger”, I don’t think wanting clean, sustainable, diverse energy solutions is going to happen by someone walking up to a tree and hugging it. As for me, I like trees, but I cut down almost as many as I plant, because I’m an ecologist by profession and certain trees in the wrong place do more harm than good. Besides, I’ve never trivialized your service to this country, so don’t come at me with that trite shit as if my job is something frivolous.

    John43620 saidIf you use plastic, you use oil, if you wear synthetic material in your clothes, you use oil, if you get medicine from the Doctor, you use oil. I may be an "oil addict" but I'm not a hypocrit. I appreciate what I got.


    Yes, and I also fill my gas tank with oil. The sad thing is that this society was built around oil and associated technologies, so it’s the default material and it is rammed down our throats at the detriment of choice. That’s like tying a health guru to a chair, cramming donuts down his throat, and then calling him a hypocrite. Does your thinking contain any nuance or maturity whatsoever?

    The oil industry is an anti-competitive cartel-driven economy and the whole situation by definition is un-American. Economic power is being concentrated rather than distributed in a more competitive, pro-business manner. But go ahead and wave your guns and scream about terrorists raping and killing us and continue to support the power structure as it is today. At least I know what a real patriot values.
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    Jun 10, 2008 9:06 PM GMT
    JBE60 saidI personally think that the less is done about high gas prices the better. The sooner people start thinking seriously about conserving, and US car companies start innovating, the better off society will be in the long run.


    Yarr. Necessity really is the mother of Invention, and until people get curbstomped by something they won't expend the effort to change. We're creatures of habit, and without internal passion or external pressure, nothing will change.